First Pre-War Car...Where to Start?

[Rusty_OToole]

Another reference shows the REO 6-25 as having a 6 cylinder engine 3 3/8X5, 268 cu in 85HP and a wheelbase of 124". This was the largest most powerful REO that year.

 

31 Buick 8-50 was the smallest Buick, with a 220 cu in 77HP straight eight and a wheelbase of 114".

 

Of the two, the REO seems to be the larger, more powerful, all around nicer car.

 

In the video, the engine does not seem to be running its best. I would like to know how many miles are on it, do a compression test and oil pressure test, and see if it will idle down. It is idling way too fast for an engine of that era, unless the choke and throttle are pulled out to warm it up.

 

If it is a Continental, and if parts are available (like piston rings and valves) I would be thinking of doing a ring and valve job and tighten up the bearings without taking the engine out of the car. This was normal maintenance in the 30s. If it has more than 50000 miles, it might be worn enough to need a complete rebuild.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[envoy_to_the_stars]

Hey Rusty,

 

The video was taken while the engine was still cold - they had literally just started it for the first time in a few weeks 10 seconds before the video started.  I imagine the choke was pulled, and the picture he sent me of the temperature gauge showed a low temp...perhaps it was still warming up, and that was what caused the high idle.  That doesn't explain the slight smoke, though.

 

The owner of this Reo has 5 of them (3 Flying Clouds and 2 Royales), and two are Concours winning cars.  He has a mecanic that checks on these cars a few times a year...so my assumption is that the little speaker on the phone just didn't pick up the motor's sound right, or it was still warming up.  I will go ahead and check with him on that, though - thank you for bringing that to my attention.

[C Carl]

Carl,

 

"I like that the Buick has been fully and meticulously restored - and all of that work is documented - but it is relatively expensive.......................I wouldn't feel bad about working on the Reo myself, and I know that down the road I can do my own restoration job if I feel so inclined. "

I notice the odo reads almost 58k , precisely what my well maintained , well running '24 Cadillac had when I bought it. About 2x the mileage of the '27 . I will presently put on my Dr. Diagnosis hat , and make a considered and respectful recommendation for YOU. Not for me , or anyone else. For you as I infer you to be. But first : heed well what the estimable and highly experienced Rusty says. That and more. There is some ambiguity regarding the present owners tenure as temporary curator of this reference standard museum piece. "Somewhere between '70s and '90s" ? Uh , say what ? Look , just what really is the maintenance/usage history ? Start driving a Rip Van Winkel machine , and expect to incur significant down time. Clutches can develop nasty characteristics. While it is out , you will likely take advantage of the opportunity to replace transmission bearings. Seals , brakes , radiator , water pump , corrosion , galvanic erosion ? How's the wiring ? Tires ? Tubes and flaps ? Wheels ( 85 year old wood spokes can be just fine - or not ) . I think by this time there was some type of safety glass , if so that will save you a few bucks. Any pot metal pieces here ? It expands and crumbles with age. I don't know if these cars had any of it. Don't know any idiosyncratic Achilles Heel with these unfamiliar cars. Guys ? You can easily exceed the purchase price of this car if you are taking a round the block car for the last 60 years and making it tour roadworthy. Ask me how I know , if you are curious. I do tend to overbuild , but I like to be able to get in them and drive them for hundreds or thousands of miles. I shoot for being able to drive them anywhere , anytime , cross country and back if I wish. Not everyone's cup.

And now your cup , if I am permitted a degree of familiarity. Then again , you asked. "Relatively expensive " ? Relative to the cost of doing all the work to restore correctly and eliminate the potential above stated problems , ( and more ) it is dirt cheap. Oh , hey , let me play this safety first , and post this so far , and not risk the whole thing evaporating. T.B.C.

[C Carl]

Whew ! Relief ! No real loss if it had evaporated. I make a lot of noise . Yeah , real poor signal to noise ratio. Granted. But your cup : here goes Dr. Diagnosis , if he may be so bold. The Good Doc sees you as a man of exacting standards. He guesses that level of standards is on the order of aerospace stringency. A loose button ? A mere 10 footer ? You hold the bar high. The Doc finds this to be a laudable characteristic, if you will permit him a value judgment. ( Again , he assumes such familiarity with some trepidation , but please indulge him ). Now the Doc also assumes that a lot of the attraction to the old original car for the here assembled , is precisely that , with all the warts , etc , it adds up to a certain charm. A complete history. A patina . A smell . Memories of youth. Dads car. Or Mr. White's car in the garage down the block 60 or 70 years ago. And so on. Some cars which are deteriorated relics are restoration candidates. Please , Dear Envoy , please not this grand survivor. This car is far too nice to restore. Once done , the soul and history will be gone forever. So few carry an unbroken preservation such as this one. Once done , it will just be another amateur restoration. Having now been admonished , the restorer will remain unforgiven. Harsh words from Doc , perhaps , but let's hear it from the congregation. No , not down the line . Not down the line , or ever please. You may not yet have heard , " They are only original once" . Docs guess is that subjecting this gem to an amateur restoration would erode its value. What say you revered Matt ? Don't get Doc wrong . He absolutely loves and goes bug nuts over proper restorations. He marvels at what high order craftsmen can accomplish as they ply their art , taking a real run down wreck , and creating the most beautiful , and well running miracle ( yes miracle to his incapable eyes and hands ) on the field , road , or track. You , Envoy , shoot for the stars. You have a predilection for perfection . At this point in your hobby timeline , dear brother in avocation , Doc agrees with Mark , Matt , Mike and the other guys , THE BU' IS FOR YOU !

Wow ! The Doc laid it on the line , didn't he ? I must say that I agree with him 100%. I am also confident that over the long haul ( again assuming a real , proper restoration ), the Buick will cost you less , and you will be able to drive it more. Envoy , I think it may be possible to get in the Buick and drive it slowly home . What a way to see the U.S.A. going leisurely past your windows. And these mid '20s to early '30s cars are to be savored slowly for a number of reasons. Not now , but I would like to make sure your expectations of these transitional cars are realistic. By the late '30s , it was a very different , much more capable , comfortable and safer automobile. Most of us guys and gals have a lot of miles in each type. I hope this offering helps you in some way , and posts . I suspect my second most critical reality checker agrees with tired , fading , beat up , old - Carl

[Rusty_OToole]

I would be more leery of a "restored" car than an unrestored original. With an original car you stand a better chance of seeing the truth, warts and all. With a "restored" car fresh paint can cover up worn out parts, and "rebuilt" engines, trans etc may or may not be up to OEM standards. To restore a car properly is VERY expensive and you always have more money in the car than you can get out of it (this is proverbial). So there is an understandable temptation to cut corners. Then there is the difficulty in getting work done properly on old cars.

 

Would it be worth while having the candidates inspected by an expert?

[envoy_to_the_stars]

I can try to arrange an inspection, but I don't really know any reo experts in the area. I'll ask the club and see what they think

[Rusty_OToole]

Doesn't have to be a REO expert, just someone familiar with old cars.

[Jim Mead]

REO, there is a reason original cars are darlings and "older restorations" are becoming hard sells....

Answer:  Antiques Roadshow

So, If you agree with the coming asthetic, go for it...

The $10,000 difference will go a ways toward correcting whatever you may find the REO needs,

the rest is "just" preservation, which, if done well, can be as complicated, and rewarding, as restoration...

All best,

Jim Mead

Owego, NY

[wayne sheldon]

Coming into this discussion late. The pitfalls of not able to spend time every evening. A few points to ponder.

My first real running car was a 1929 REO when I was in high school. It was 40 years old at that time. I eventually sold it as I had come to the conclusion that it was a bit too modern for me. However, it was a solid unrestored car that ran strong and was willing to go a lot faster than I was willing to try it (I had it to 55 mph a few times). It drove wonderfully.

 

Both cars are in that in-between area. They are not "Full Classics", they are not Horseless Carriages, not really Nickel Era. Nor are they Fords with the huge clubs and fantastic tours all over the nation and most weekends of the year. And, unfortunately, much of the hobby prefers cars that are just a bit newer, faster, more streamlined. I said "unfortunately" because they are missing out on some really incredible cars. The late '20s to mid '30s have so many incredible cars to be enjoyed.

 

I have had several good friends that had late '20s to mid '30s Buicks. They too tend to be fast and reliable, good drivers. Both marques have supportive national clubs. The Buick club is probably the larger and more active of the two.

 

Usual advice that I often give to people getting into early cars is to figure out what you want, and what you expect to get from the car? (What clubs, shows, tours do you want to be welcomed on?) But in this case, it sounds like you have already done a good job there. Two excellent options. Very alike in many ways, with a few key differences.

When I first began reading this thread, looking at the first photos. I would have bet that the REO was not a truly original car. That is just too nice. And the word "original" has mostly lost its meaning as it has been stretched to mean so many different things to so many different people. So I am always skeptical when someone tells me a car is "original". "Restored" is another word that has lost its meaning ("Restored" does not necessarily mean anything was done properly). But when I watched the video, and got better looks at parts of the car? It may be an actual "Original car" .Anything truly original and anywhere near that nice is extra special and should be preserved as close to untouched original as possible. But it still should be carefully driven, seen, and appreciated.

 

Good luck!

[mrcvs]

I would definitely go for the REO.  $10,000 less, AND an original car!

[Linus Tremaine]

What about a lincoln?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lincoln-Other-limosuine-/221797112579?forcerrptr=true&hash=item33a4235b03&item=221797112579

[padgett]

WOW, quite a lot of interest in  something relatively simple but there was something from the very first post coupled with the Texas location that makes me wonder just what Envoy wants: "converted to 12 volt, and even has A/C" also "A mix of all options.  I mostly just want to be able to drive it around and take it to local shows"

 

This does not sound like someone obsessed and a nice big restomod with a crate engine, lockup trans, disk brakes, and AC might b more appropriate. Just need to be sure what you really really want.

 

All of my cars have AC because I drive them and live in a hot climate. I also like to think that each has a different purpose even if "toy" but most are testbeds for things I want to try out. Also I have never spent even $7,000 for a used car.

 

So like computers, grew up with them, have lots, and paid for my cars. Like many if an autobiography was written, no one would believe it (have been to nearly every NASA site...)

 

However with all of the stories I am not sure just what it is that Envoy really wants but having lived in Texas several times can say that "rust free" has an entirely different meaning there than way up north. My '90 'vert was from NH and while nice, I spent three days with it on the lift applying steel wool, sandpaper, emory cloth, and rustolium to the undercarriage, For me it was marginal but just liked it. Does make a great driver in the cool dry months but not a show car.

 

For me usually decide exactly what is wanted (year, color, options) and then find one. Never has taken more than a few months.

 

Was interesting seeing the current "Chasing Classic Cars" since I've had both a XK-150s ('59, no "S" on door but gold head (9:1) triple carb) and a flat floor E-type. Of course I paid $1500 for one and $2k for the other. Won a lot of autocrosses with the E. Today the Crossie does nicely as a replacement & I no longer fixate on the oil pressure. I like 2 seaters.

 

But have lost sight of what Envoy wants which is probably different & would like to know ? Gangster Car ? Don't think you want something with babitt bearings, a 5" stroke, and overheating issues at anything over 45. YWTK.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Hmm, not sure either but assuming based on the selections and reasoning behind them that he understands those are typical attributes of a prewar car, especially for the late 20s to early 30s. We have some rather dedicated prewar guys from the heat belt on this forum. I suppose they suffer or take another car when it's too hot just like we store ours in winter up here. It's a totally different experience no resto mod can match. Not to speak for the op but just wondering if the a with a was more a circumstance thing than a conscious choice as the other two cars are essentially faithful to the era?

[padgett]

Something about making a donkey out of U and Me...

[envoy_to_the_stars]

Hmm, not sure either but assuming based on the selections and reasoning behind them that he understands those are typical attributes of a prewar car, especially for the late 20s to early 30s. We have some rather dedicated prewar guys from the heat belt on this forum. I suppose they suffer or take another car when it's too hot just like we store ours in winter up here. It's a totally different experience no resto mod can match. Not to speak for the op but just wondering if the a with a was more a circumstance thing than a conscious choice as the other two cars are essentially faithful to the era?

 

I don't mind a little heat.  If I take a Pre-War car out in the summer, it's going to be going to a casual lunch or a show, where I'll be in shorts and a t-shirt.  The A/C in the Model A was a perk, but my passion is more around the bigger and more uncommon sedans of that era...and the Model A is a bit too small and that one doesn't have it's history or "story" intact.  It's just being sold by a used car dealer who wants to get it off his lot.

 

I have decided to move forward with the REO.  I had long conversations with the owner, talked to the mechanic who has worked on it since the 90s, and did some research with the Reo Car Club.  The owner has its full history available since 1930.  That's worth its weight in gold to me.  Sure, the fabric seats will be uncomfortable in the Texas summers, but it's really not that big of a deal.  I can just park in the shade, roll down the windows, and get over it.

 

The mechanic who has worked on this car for the last few decades went over everything they have done with it.  He has an impressive working knowledge about the car, and noted that they recently did a compression test and oil pressure test, with great results. 

Edited June 11, 2015 by envoy_to_the_stars (see edit history)

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Congrats on a great car. I get your logic for sure. We recently had an opportunity to acquire a Marquette with a similar long ownership history, etc. Not as impressive as the big REO, but a unique car. Well, we wanted an open car and know model A cars pretty well so we went that way instead.

That said your going into it for all the right reasons IMHO. Congrats, and keep us posted on the homecoming!

[zeke01]

I have stayed out of this thread, not wanting to influence your decision, buttttt, CONGRATULATIONS! I was pulling for the REO! Picture yourself tooling down the road in that magnificent vessel. I see that the Glidden tour has openings. Go for it!.Zeke

 

el

[Jim Mead]

Bingo!  Great choice....

[Larry W]

[img=http://41.media.tumblr.com/8c2c3ef21e2a26d8f57a806d2110ccb8/tumblr_ I used to work for General Electric, where we had the "Missle and Space Vehicle Department" (and I even have the Zippo to prove it,

 

. Was that plant located near Detroit?

[envoy_to_the_stars]

. Was that plant located near Detroit?

 

32nd and Chestnut Street, Philadelphia PA.

I believe GE had a 100-year lease on a building that was located across the street from Drexel University.  They tried to make a change to a new building in King of Prussia, Pa. when the Drexel kids got to be a bit much to handle, but it never came to fruition.  This was back in the 70s/80s.