Lesson Learned? Better off buying fully restored and functioning vs unrestored and 'functioning'

[motoringicons]

You should not have to remove the distributor to change the condenser. If you decide to remove the distributor, be very careful as trying to force it out can cause the stem of the distributor casting to break inside is hole in the head. If this happens, you will need to get a new distributor and remove the head to get the old distributor remnants out. The distributor needs to come STRAIGHT out. There is no wiggle room nor do you want to pry up on it unevenly. There is a special puller used to remove the distributor that is available new from the parts dealers such as Snyder's and probably Brattons. If you're distributor won't come out easily on its own, you'll need one of these handy removers:

http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/4296

Another potential source for problems is the wire that connects the lower distributor plate to the upper distributor plate. This tiny little wire can get frayed and cause sporadic problems. The upper distributor plate is what turns with the spark advance and is the first plate you see when you take the cap off (it also holds the point assembly). By disconnecting the spark lever and removing the distributor cam, you can rotate this uppder plate so it can be lifted off and the bottom plate will be exposed. The bottom plate is what the ignition switch wire (pop out switch if it is original equipment) connects to and this little wire transfer the electricity from the lower plate to the upper plate and point assembly. Again, this can be done without removing the distributor. Here's what this lower plate looks like: http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/3772

If you're distributor has not been rebuilt, I would recommend buying a complete, new distributor assembly that uses more modern points and a modern condensor as well as a more positive upper/lower plate connector. The whole new distributor assemblies are available for about 125-150.00 from most of the part vendors and really eliminate a lot of potential ignition headaches. Here are new distributors both original style and the recommended modern plate style:

http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/3753

Good luck.

Edited April 22, 2015 by motoringicons (see edit history)

[mrcvs]

Yes, I should not need to remove the distributor. But I cannot budge that left-facing condenser screw, even with Kroil. Screw starting to be such that screwdriver cannot bite screw. Don't know why it won't turn easy!

[trickydicky43richard]

G'Day Robert B in Tweed Valley (the Model A whisperer) Maaate, if you were there you could have it running in seconds,

Tricky

Canungra

[Guest cben09]

There is a tool common to motorcycle work,,

called "impact driver",,,,'bout an inch diam 3/8 square

on end for socket or screwdriver thingie one piece adapter

perferd for stuborn jobs,,

This tool is hit on end w/ hammar,,and it not only forces

the screw driver tip into the screw head but also

gives a twist same time,,they are really goood,,,

Craftsman,S-K,,Snap-ON,,,,H K Porter makes most of

'em I think,,By now,,should be flea market item

The hammar end gets beat up,,dont matter at all

Grind it a bit,,,not a problem,,you can add 6"

extension for difficult places

That screw was probably over tightend when

last worked on,,Hope this helps,,,,Ben

[Dandy Dave]

When you order a condenser, order 2. Never leave home in a Model A Ford without a spare. Aftermarket heat shields are available and very reasonably priced. Had a Model A Ford that drove me nuts back in the 1970's. The problem turned out to be the wire that ran up to the switch. The one in the heavy wound steel cable. It would sometimes short out. I felt it one day when it was giving trouble and it was warm. Don't give up. You'll get her. Dandy Dave!

[Guest DodgeKCL]

This is a modern space age mylar capacitor. This particular one is made by Siemens/Halska in Germany. They can be purchased at any electronics store that caters to the electronic hobby such as SAYAL in Toronto,Mississauga,Burlington etc. in Ontario. You can find them on the internet at sales@sayalhobbies.com Looking them up would give you an idea as to what you would have in your country. Going this route would put the capacitor problem to sleep once and for all and worrying about a shorted cap and carrying a spare would be unnecessary. I used these in the production of airbourne nuclear precession magnetometers that were used in the Mexican Andes,the Canadian Arctic and the Australian outback to look for metal deposits and petroleum. They never failed. One circuit board was completely populated with these to tune the "towed bird" to the correct precession frequency of the Earth's magnetic field any place on the Earth. Since this was my life's work it was easy for me to change all the old leaky condensers on my antiques. They would have killed in the early days of the automotive industry to have these capacitors. The mathematics are still the same but the parts are a millenium away.They are out there in space in satellites freezing to death but they will not short or open. I also changed out the reverse current cutout on the generator with a modern high current diode and that was the end of stuck cutout points. There is now a good instruction page on Tod Fitch's site 'Plymouth the First Decade' as to how to change out the cutout for a diode. Again the part can be bought at a store such as SAYAL for a few dollars. I highly recommend you do both changes. I did about 30 years ago and have never had any more grief from either area. And you will find the engine starts quicker and runs better and the battery lasts longer and keeps a better charge because the diode will not let ANY current reverse down to ground through the generator. That flicker down to dim headlights and dashlights at night does not happen anymore because the diode only allows current to flow in the one direction from the generator to the battery. A maladjusted cutout or one with sticky points will and they ALL had sticky points. These high current silicon diodes are the reason our modern alternators are considered to be always charging. I just started up my antiques last week and they are still operating the same as they were when they went away for their Winter's nap. No shorted/leaky condensers or stuck and burnt points from the cutout. These two problem areas on our old cars are one of the most discussed on the net. If you need any help I can be reached with a private message.

[CHAD THOMAS]

How do you get the distributor off? You have the distributor locking screw. What else. Les Andrews' Book doesn't show what else to remove. I cannot get the left facing screw out of the condenser. Sprayed Kroil in there and it still won't budge. NOTHING seems to be easy with this car.

I have learned a lot, and continue to struggle. Why don't they teach you how to fix your car in High School? Something useful and practical?

Re-reading: Where is the centre head stud nut?

They did at my High School, but by then I had already done most of what they taught.

hang in there, you will get it.

[Dandy Dave]

This is a modern space age mylar capacitor. This particular one is made by Siemens/Halska in Germany. They can be purchased at any electronics store that caters to the electronic hobby such as SAYAL in Toronto,Mississauga,Burlington etc. in Ontario. You can find them on the internet at sales@sayalhobbies.com Looking them up would give you an idea as to what you would have in your country. Going this route would put the capacitor problem to sleep once and for all and worrying about a shorted cap and carrying a spare would be unnecessary. I used these in the production of airbourne nuclear precession magnetometers that were used in the Mexican Andes,the Canadian Arctic and the Australian outback to look for metal deposits and petroleum. They never failed. One circuit board was completely populated with these to tune the "towed bird" to the correct precession frequency of the Earth's magnetic field any place on the Earth. Since this was my life's work it was easy for me to change all the old leaky condensers on my antiques. They would have killed in the early days of the automotive industry to have these capacitors. The mathematics are still the same but the parts are a millenium away.They are out there in space in satellites freezing to death but they will not short or open. I also changed out the reverse current cutout on the generator with a modern high current diode and that was the end of stuck cutout points. There is now a good instruction page on Tod Fitch's site 'Plymouth the First Decade' as to how to change out the cutout for a diode. Again the part can be bought at a store such as SAYAL for a few dollars. I highly recommend you do both changes. I did about 30 years ago and have never had any more grief from either area. And you will find the engine starts quicker and runs better and the battery lasts longer and keeps a better charge because the diode will not let ANY current reverse down to ground through the generator. That flicker down to dim headlights and dashlights at night does not happen anymore because the diode only allows current to flow in the one direction from the generator to the battery. A maladjusted cutout or one with sticky points will and they ALL had sticky points. These high current silicon diodes are the reason our modern alternators are considered to be always charging. I just started up my antiques last week and they are still operating the same as they were when they went away for their Winter's nap. No shorted/leaky condensers or stuck and burnt points from the cutout. These two problem areas on our old cars are one of the most discussed on the net. If you need any help I can be reached with a private message.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]306143[/ATTACH]

About time some modern stuff was adapted. Thanks for the info. These look small enough so they could also be hidden. Dandy Dave!

[Dandy Dave]

On the Distributor,..I has been a few years. Seems to me there is a nut and set screw in the head of a Model A. you have to back out the set screw. Best to take it out completely and spray some oil the hole also. And If memory serves me right, the manifold is close also. I would use a big pair of channel locks with a rag wrapped around the distributor and gingerly rock it side to side. Carefully and Gingerly is the key. If it rocks side to side, it will come out. Also, when you do get it removed, I would pull the side valve cover and check the drive that runs the oil pump. I've pulled apart more that one with a broken off tang that would not drive the oil pump any longer. That part just comes straight up and is what also drives the distributor. Dandy Dave!

[MCHinson]

I have exchanged some Private Messages and phone calls with mrcvs. He probably won't have any time to work on his car much until Friday. I feel confident that we will get him on the right track to getting the car running. He has apparently already caused himself a little bit of extra work by not understanding some of the advice that he has received in this discussion. Now he needs to reset the timing as he previously removed the screw that holds the cam in the distributor.

Dandy Dave,

Generally you give very good advice but I would not suggest your gently rocking back and forth advice on a Model A Ford Distributor. An inexperienced individual might very well do some damage trying to follow that advice. The pin that insures that the distributor is installed in the correct orientation might very well be broken off by an inexperienced individual trying that. To be removed, a Model A distributor needs to be lifted straight up. There are tools specifically designed to do that, or two screwdrivers or other similar flat tools can be used to gently apply straight upwards prying force on both sides to loosen a stuck distributor.

Edited April 23, 2015 by MCHinson (see edit history)

[Dandy Dave]

I have exchanged some Private Messages and phone calls with mrcvs. He probably won't have any time to work on his car much until Friday. I feel confident that we will get him on the right track to getting the car running. He has apparently already caused himself a little bit of extra work by not understanding some of the advice that he has received in this discussion. Now he needs to reset the timing as he previously removed the screw that holds the cam in the distributor.

Dandy Dave,

Generally you give very good advice but I would not suggest your gently rocking back and forth advice on a Model A Ford Distributor. An inexperienced individual might very well do some damage trying to follow that advice. The pin that insures that the distributor is installed in the correct orientation might very well be broken off by an inexperienced individual trying that. To be removed, a Model A distributor needs to be lifted straight up. There are tools specifically designed to do that, or two screwdrivers or other similar flat tools can be used to gently apply straight upwards prying force on both sides to loosen a stuck distributor.

Daaahooo... Forgot about the alignment pin.. or flat... A Homer Simpson Moment... Point Taken. Like you, if I was there, The car would be purring in no time. Tough to diagnose stuff just typing it out from a distance on a key board...and from memory, especially to someone that has not had much experience with a particular vehicle. Dandy Dave!

Edited April 24, 2015 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Nice that Matt is taking some one on one time with mrcvs here. Understandably well meaning but perhaps too many cooks - what is simple to us might be complex to someone new to the vehicle - I will add one more thought on this though, for mrcvs.

This is actually pretty rewarding stuff once you get the hang of it. I am lucky in that I have two Model A boys that live about a quarter mile of my house, one in each direction who helped with the small stuff when I first got mine. After that even with routine things I always kept the Andrews book handy, and reviewed it prior to an activity such as setting timing, until it got to be second nature. Enjoy the tinkering, these cars respond so well to a little minor attention and yours looks like a great driver. Keep the group posted on your progress please!

[MikeC5]

DodgeKCL, I've been looking but no luck finding a source for the capacitor you pictured, (B32231 022M630). If I understand correctly, the B32231 is the type of capacitor and the value is 0.22 uF, 630 VDC ? I'm not sure if I'm reading the values correctly. Also, if you do know of a vendor who has this I would much appreciate the link.I found this but am not sure if it is close enough:

http://www.newark.com/panasonic-electronic-components/ecq-e6224kf/capacitor-polyester-film-0-22uf/dp/49W1803?aa=true&min=810097477&max=810056300&categoryId=800000005277

Thanks.

[Rusty_OToole]

"I have learned a lot, and continue to struggle. Why don't they teach you how to fix your car in High School? Something useful and practical?"

They used to offer shop classes including auto shop. All gone now. I guess the people making the decisions don't like useful and practical subjects.

[auburnseeker]

"I have learned a lot, and continue to struggle. Why don't they teach you how to fix your car in High School? Something useful and practical?"

They used to offer shop classes including auto shop. All gone now. I guess the people making the decisions don't like useful and practical subjects.

Spot on.

I think I was one of the last shop classes when I graduated in 1993. Even then it was pretty watered down into just an introductory course. (though we had a great teacher, who remains a friend to this day, that let us dismantle his 40 Ford coupe. Pretty cool for a 16 year old) To go any further you had to go to Boces which was a true vocational type school. Councilors didn't like suggesting or even students mentioning that, when they were near the top of their class grade wise. The thought being you will never get anywhere in life without that college degree.

I guess I butt the standard. I'm doing fairly well hawking car parts. Hey you have to like what you do as well. Makes it a whole lot easier to get out of bed in the morning.

[Pomeroy41144]

Why don't they teach you how to fix your car in High School? Something useful and practical?

Auto shop was available at my high school back in the late 1970s / early 1980s. Still available now.

Since I was in the College Prep Program, I had to learn antique car repair at home on my father's 1941 Buick Series 90 Limited.