First classic, advice?? 54 Plymouth Belvedere

[Guest Spy]

Hello all,

I hope I'm not crowding the forum asking for your help. I'm seriously considering purchasing this car. The owner has accepted a very low cash offer from me, along with my promise to not purposefully ruin the car's originality.

The car in question is a 1954 Plymouth Belvedere. It is currently all original, it runs and drives strong and I was taken for a ride in it. There is very little rust on the exterior, and the interior is in good condition. Problems: It needs work on the brakes as it is slow to stop. The owner said I should have the electrical wiring cleaned up. The fuel gauge doesn't work. Finally, I'm told that the car recently started overheating when driven long distances (15+ miles), we drove the car together for over ten minutes and it was not an issue.

What is your advice on this car? Thoughts? It would be my first classic. Is it easy to find parts and/or restore? Easy to maintain? I am looking for this to be a daily use car while I restore it. Based on your feedback, I plan on buying this car tomorrow.

Thanks!

P.S. If there's anybody in the Los Angeles area with a trained eye, who could come take a look at the car with me, it would be a huge help.

Edited May 11, 2014 by Spy (see edit history)

[Guest kaycee]

Hi and welcome.

This is a easy car to maintain. The brakes are simple, and the running hot problem can be as simple as a good flushing of the radiator and cooling system like any car. The engines are easy to repair and maintain if they're realatively good to begin with. It's a worth while choice from what you've told us. Good luck!

kaycee

[Rusty_OToole]

They were a good reliable car in their day, simple to repair and parts availability is good.

I am concerned that you plan to use the car daily. It may be too old for regular use and has certain features against it like 6v electrical system, and not having the speed or stamina for today's traffic.

You would be happier with a newer car with V8, 12v electrics and disc brakes from the eighties or newer.

[Guest Spy]

has certain features against it like 6v electrical system, and not having the speed or stamina for today's traffic.

You would be happier with a newer car with V8, 12v electrics and disc brakes from the eighties or newer.

Thanks for the feedback! One thing I forgot to mention, the owner did upgrade this car to a 12v electric system. I don't know what the benefits or drawbacks of this are? I'd love to get more information on that. As far as the speed goes, I'm used to driving some pretty slow cars and while the Plymouth may be even slower, I think I could live with it for the beautiful styling.

[JFranklin]

The 6 volt 12 volt discussion is a bit controversial in that the 6 volt system is sometimes vilified if it is not built and kept in good factory order. Of course it is harder to play the CD or run added air-conditioning also. But then a disc brake addition also is a wise choice!?

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

GO FOR IT. It should go down the road at 60+ all day.

Ben

[Rusty_OToole]

There is nothing wrong with the 6v system. A lot of cars got changed to 12v because the owner had a problem and did not know how to fix it so he thought he would change it to 12v. Then he had a car with 12v and the original problem unfixed.

The 12v system may be an improvement or at least a convenience if it is done right. All electrical parts must be swapped for 12v equivalents, like the light bulbs. Or a source of 6v provided for things that are not changed, like radio and windshield wipers and heater.

The radio is a particular problem because it is not only 6v but + ground. This does not matter on other things but it does on the radio. The radio must be taken out and rebuilt by an expert or it will quickly burn out on 12V or on 6v- ground.

Some conversions are done right but most aren't. Ask the owner specifically what he changed and what is still 6v, and what he did for a 6v power supply, and what about the radio?

The next question is, how much do you plan to use the car and how reliable does it have to be? If you have to drive 50 miles a day on interstate hiways at 70 MPH forget it, the car will never stand it. If your work is less than 5 miles away, does not involve any interstates or meat axey city driving, and you have an alternative if the car won't go, like a bicycle or bus, then it might work out ok.

You must remember the car is now 60 years old, same as your grandmother. She may have been quite a gal in her day but I doubt she can jump up and do the boogaloo like she did 40 years ago.

[Rusty_OToole]

As far as power goes 100HP is not much these days but the old flathead six can fool you. They are a long stroke, high torque power plant with lots of punch in the low to mid range. Easy to drive in traffic, and will not hold anybody back in normal driving but not at its best in high speed situations. 50 to 60 its best cruising range, 80+ possible with the gas pedal to the floor... but given the age of the car too much speed is asking for a disaster.

How many miles on the car? In those days normal engine life between rebuilds was 50,000 to 80,000 miles and any car that made it to 100,000 was exceptional. Over 100,000 and the car was considered worn out.

The engines are foolers. They will continue to run in an advanced state of wear and give no sign of it. No bad knocks or bangs, they just get harder to start, low on power, and burn more gas. I know guys who rebuilt their engine and were amazed at how much power they had, they never realised how bad the engine was because it was so well mannered.

The only way to really tell is to do a compression test. Normal compression 120PSI. All cylinders should be within 10PSI and if they are all above 100 you have a good engine.

[Guest Spy]

The 12v system may be an improvement or at least a convenience if it is done right. All electrical parts must be swapped for 12v equivalents, like the light bulbs. Or a source of 6v provided for things that are not changed, like radio and windshield wipers and heater.

Some conversions are done right but most aren't. Ask the owner specifically what he changed and what is still 6v, and what he did for a 6v power supply, and what about the radio?

The next question is, how much do you plan to use the car and how reliable does it have to be? If you have to drive 50 miles a day on interstate hiways at 70 MPH forget it, the car will never stand it. If your work is less than 5 miles away, does not involve any interstates or meat axey city driving, and you have an alternative if the car won't go, like a bicycle or bus, then it might work out ok.

From the sound of it, his 12v conversion was not done right. He replaced the battery and the wiring, but there were sacrifices. The headlignts/taillights work, but the radio is burnt out and the dash lights burnt out. I asked him what my first priority should be if preparing this car for daily use, he said "Get the electrical stuff looked at". So I anticipate that being something I'll have to put some money into.

As far as daily use, I fall somewhere in the middle. Anything I do is about 15 miles away. I am accustomed to driving about 50 on highways and slowly "gliding" in traffic to maximize fuel economy, the way big rig truckers do. There are also plentiful public transport options here, although I'd hope to not have too much trouble with the Plymouth.

The owner says that the Plymouth was used as a regular daily driver up until a few weeks ago when they bought another running project, and "never had any problems", they sounded honest but I know they're also trying to sell a car.

[c49er]

I wonder what happened a few weeks ago to create so mant 12v electrical issues if the car was a daily driver?

[Guest Spy]

I wonder what happened a few weeks ago to create so mant 12v electrical issues if the car was a daily driver?

It sounded like the electrical issues had been present before it stopped being used as a daily driver. They just lived without a radio or dash lights and continued driving the car that way after the conversion.

[joe_padavano]

Converting to 12V is not particularly difficult, and has been done by tens of thousands of people in the last 50 years or so. I strongly suggest that you get this book.

From your description, it sounds like the P.O. changed the battery, alternator, and headlights, but didn't properly wire up a voltage reducer for the radio, instruments, and interior lights. You can either go with a voltage reducer or change out the bulbs for 12V equivalents. Despite what you will hear from many folks here, the beauty of a 12V conversion is that the higher voltage requires lower current for the same wattage. The problem with 6V systems is that any minor corrosion at terminals can cause enough resistance to make a circuit non-functional. Yes, you can clean these contacts and the 6V system will work fine, but from a cost-benefit standpoint, a 12V conversion is significantly easier than chasing every single hidden wire in the car. Yeah, it's a little bit of a bandaid, but it is effective.

[ply33]

Looks like you are getting more responses here than over on the P15-D24 forum, though in the long term that forum might be more helpful with respect to repairs, etc.

Basically it comes down to this: Chrysler engineers came up with a reasonably good mechanical design early on: The first variation of that engine with such niceties as modern bearing inserts, four bearing crank, aluminum pistons, full pressure lubrication, etc. was introduced in 1933 and it was used in vehicles up to about 1968 in some trucks and the early 70s for industrial applications. So it was a good durable design and because of the long production history, parts are easy to get.

In good condition your '54 should be able to cruise at 65 MPH all day. But the key is "good condition" and unless you've personally (or a mechanic you really trust) has gone over it with a fine tooth comb including dropping the pan and inspecting the internals of the motor, don't assume it is in good condition. In average or typical condition you probably want to keep it under 50 MPH or 55 MPH until you shake it out.

With respect to cooling issues, my experience is that the basic design should run cool. However 60 years of gunk in the bottom of the water jacket and a rotted out water distribution tube (down the length of the block behind the water pump) will cause issues. At the minimum, I'd pop the core/freeze/welch plugs along the driver side of the block and flush and rod out the debris that has undoubtedly accumulated. If/when the water pump has an issue, pull the distribution tube from behind it and verify it is not rotted out of clogged. Replacement distribution tubes are available and you should look for a brass one instead of the more usual steel so you don't have an issue with it ever again. (Of course back flushing the radiator is a good early step too.)

If your driving style includes following too close at high speeds relying on power assisted disk brakes and quick reactions to keep you from meeting the car ahead of you, then you might find the old drum brakes a bit fade prone. But if you allow proper following distances so you don't have a quick succession of panic stops you should be fine. The Lockheed style brakes Chrysler used in that era are not self adjusting and require either some finesse or proper tools to adjust properly, you'll want to learn how to do that for yourself as the number of brake shops familiar with the system is dwindling.

In general the Chrysler product L-6 powered cars are good reliable cars that can keep up with modern traffic on urban, suburban roads as well as rural secondary highways. You'll be flogging it if you try to keep up with the unofficial 80 MPH speed limit on I-5 through the Central Valley or I-8 or I-10 through the desert. And given how prone urban freeway drivers are to jumping into the smallest safety zone you try to allow in front of you, it would probably be a bit nerve racking to drive it a lot on urban freeways.

[joe_padavano]

I'll add a couple of points to consider. I'll preface this by saying that I'm all for using an older car as a daily driver (heck, they were used as daily drivers when they were new), but be sure you go into this with your eyes open.

First is parts availability. While some may say that parts for a mid-50s Chrysler are "readily available", that's likely a Clintonian interpretation of the word "readily". Don't expect to run down to your corner auto parts store and be able to buy something for this car. At best, NAPA may be able to order parts, but more likely is that you'll need to order parts from a specialty vendor. This isn't an issue, but it does take time, so if the car breaks down, chances are it will be down for a couple of weeks before replacement parts show up and you can get it back on the road. This means that you will need another vehicle as a backup. Also, be aware that this car does not have the following of a tri-five Chevy, Camaro, or Mustang. There simply aren't anywhere near as many vendors selling parts for this car as for those more popular models, and the parts that are available are limited. In many cases you will be forced to tap into the network of 54 Chrysler aficionados to locate some rare thing you need (say, worn out door latches), and you'll be looking at replacing your broken part with one that's equally old and only slightly less worn. For parts that you simply cannot get, you'll be fabricating or improvising. If you cannot do this yourself, you will need a mechanic who is both knowledgeable on older cars and trustworthy. That's a pretty rare combination these days and not cheap when you do find one.

Second, unless the car has extremely low mileage (like, under 20,000 miles), expect stuff to wear out continually. If you don't plan on doing a complete rebuild of every mechanical system on the car before you start driving it, expect stuff to be breaking regularly. Now go back to my previous point that parts will usually take a couple of weeks to arrive.

Third, this car will never start, stop, ride, or corner like a car built in the last 15-20 years. Don't expect that. Your driving style will change.

Fourth is the whole safety aspect. Like it or not, passenger safety has increased dramatically in the last 60 years. This car does not have seat belts, side impact beams, collapsible steering column, increased interior padding, reinforced door latches, antilock brakes, or any of a host of new car safety features.

None of these points are intended to discourage you from owning and driving this car, as I also drive old cars regularly. Just be sure you go into this with your eyes open and make an informed decision.

[Rusty_OToole]

Spy, if this is your first old car, I suggest you pass on it and look for something better.

If I had the chance, I would probably buy it, but I have 50 years experience with messed up old cars, a garage full of tools, other cars for transportation, and no job I have to get to. BUT I would get it CHEAP to reflect the messed up condition. If they say they "never had any problems" they are obviously lying. They had problems with the electrics and who knows what else.

This sounds like a typical amateur 12V conversion by the way. Throw a battery and alternator at it and hope for the best. I have done 12V conversions and they are not easy or cheap to do right. Today, I would keep the 6V and just fix what was wrong because it is easier, cheaper and better - if you know what you are doing.

If you are not familiar with old cars or electrical work that car will be a nightmare. If you have to hire someone for 20 hours at $85 an hour plus parts to straighten it out that is lots of $$$$$ down the drain.

If you insist on an old car I strongly recommend you pass on the 54, and look for a Dodge or Plymouth with a slant six engine. They were made from 1960 to the mid 1980s and there are many models to chose from, Barracuda, Valiant, Dart, Belvedere, Coronet in hardtops, sedans, and station wagons. Right off the bat you side step the hassles of 6v electrics, flathead engines etc. The slant six is a very reliable engine, parts easy to get, economical on gas, and you can drive it in modern traffic with no worries. Some even came with disc brakes.

[Rusty_OToole]

Do you have any experience of doing electrical repairs? Do you know exactly what was done (or messed up) on the car? I mean by inspecting it yourself, not taking someone's word? Did they save all the old parts they took off? What did they do to the wiring, is it properly done according to the factory wiring diagram with factory approved connections or does it look like a rat's nest?

[ply33]

I'll add a couple of points to consider. I'll preface this by saying that I'm all for using an older car as a daily driver (heck, they were used as daily drivers when they were new), but be sure you go into this with your eyes open.

First is parts availability. While some may say that parts for a mid-50s Chrysler are "readily available", that's likely a Clintonian interpretation of the word "readily". Don't expect to run down to your corner auto parts store and be able to buy something for this car. At best, NAPA may be able to order parts, but more likely is that you'll need to order parts from a specialty vendor. This isn't an issue, but it does take time, so if the car breaks down, chances are it will be down for a couple of weeks before replacement parts show up and you can get it back on the road. This means that you will need another vehicle as a backup. . . .

I was going to give a full rebuttal to this because I get all my maintenance parts (ignition parts, bearings, gaskets, etc.) at my local auto supply with just a call before hand to give them a chance to get what I need from the local warehouse. Basically call in the morning and then pick up the parts at lunch.

But on reflection, I have a rebuilt water pump, new fuel pump, spare carburetor, etc. on the shelf at home. So those larger parts that might fail in service I can source immediately from my own stock and then have the faulty units removed from the car rebuilt or replaced at my leisure. So you are correct in that part: If you don't have a parts stash and are relying on getting, say, a water pump at your local auto supply it will take a few days to a week.

And there is the fact that while the store may have or can get the part, they might not know it: If the application does not show up on their computer counter folk are often lost nowadays. That is why I have my own personal parts cross reference information. I don't try to call up and ask for a part for an old Plymouth, instead I ask for the part with using their part number. It has taken a bit of work over the years to build up the information and it is always evolving as part numbers change.

So mechanical parts are "readily available" if you have the mindset that you have to be the expert on the cross reference information and you are willing to keep on had spares for things that might go bad and will take some time to repair or replace. They are not "readily available" if your mind set is "I should be able to get any part on a moment's notice from any corner bubble wrap auto supply store".

Trim parts are the worst for old Plymouths: Many, probably most trim parts, are not being reproduced. Being trim items they are often year specific and sometimes body style and year specific so old stock is limited. Sometimes the ones that are being reproduced are by small businesses and finding out who has what can take some research.

With respect to using my old Plymouth as a daily driver: I did that 40 years ago so I know it can be done. All the normal maintenance items are still available, so in theory I could do it again. But daily driving does a lot of wear and tear and I'm not sure that I have enough energy to keep up with all of that nowadays. I do 1500 to 2000 miles a year on average which is enough to cause some wear and tear but not enough that I can't keep up with it. I find it a lot easier to put put the daily driver miles on a car that is strictly for transportation which I will sell when too many things wear out at once to be fun fixing. And the point made about safety issues (seat belts, collapsable steering column, crumple zones, etc.) are good to keep in mind.

[rons49]

Did anyone ask what transmission is in the 54? standard, overdrive, Hy-Drive or Power Flight? That could a reason for slower acceleration.

[Guest Spy]

Do you have any experience of doing electrical repairs? Do you know exactly what was done (or messed up) on the car? I mean by inspecting it yourself, not taking someone's word? Did they save all the old parts they took off? What did they do to the wiring, is it properly done according to the factory wiring diagram with factory approved connections or does it look like a rat's nest?

I'm not so great with electrical repairs, I can replace a stereo, change speakers, and keep an old fuse box clean. Other than that, it's foreign to me. I couldn't readily say what's wrong with anything by inspecting it myself. They do have most, if not all of the parts that were removed. The electrical wiring was the owner's main warning to me, and I noticed cables hanging under the front of the car. It was a joy to drive around in but I don't have the immediate time or finances to devote if the car starts falling apart on me. All I know is that it's beautiful, very cheap, and drove great during the test drive. I'm second guessing myself now, all I know for sure is that I want to get rid of my 2012 Sonata for something I can buy with cash, but still be proud to own. I've considered a cash car from the 90's, but that would depreciate in value, be more complicated to repair, cost more to insure, and I will not be proud to own it or have a bond with the car. So when measuring a 90's cash car up to a beat-up classic, a classic feels like the smarter choice.

I don't know what to do now.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Spy (see edit history)

[Guest Spy]

Did anyone ask what transmission is in the 54? standard, overdrive, Hy-Drive or Power Flight? That could a reason for slower acceleration.

It has the standard 3 speed transmission, 3 on the tree is what the classic car community calls it, I think?

[Rusty_OToole]

Spy I know how you feel. I'm sure you love the car and that it is a bargain but I am afraid it is not for you. It might be OK as a hobby if you had a garage to keep it in, some tools, and the time to work on it but under the circumstances, no.

In fact if it is to be your only car and you are not exactly floating in the money any classic would be too much. Your best shot would be to find a good older model Honda, Toyota, Nissan or Mazda with not too many miles on it. They often turn up in the suburbs. One owner second cars for sale by owner because, they are more than 5 years old and the dealer won't give them anything for a trade in. I have driven cheap used cars for years and that is the best suggestion I can offer.

[Rusty_OToole]

What is the matter with the Sonata? Why can't you keep it?

[Guest Spy]

If you insist on an old car I strongly recommend you pass on the 54, and look for a Dodge or Plymouth with a slant six engine. They were made from 1960 to the mid 1980s and there are many models to chose from

Rusty, you seem to be putting the most time and thought into this and I take your advice to heart even though you'd clearly steer me away from this car. So I want you to be aware of important factors I'm taking into consideration:

I want to pay for a car in full for $3,000 or less. If said car is not in completely reliable condition, I will keep my 2012 Sonata for getting to and from work until my fall semester of college begins. At that point, I will be leaving my job and attending school online. This will give me more time to devote to my car, but less money.

Ideally I would purchase a car for this price, that will be immediately reliable. Then I could sell my 2012 Sonata immediately, and save money that I wont be spending on loan payments and full coverage insurance. Pair that with my previous statement on 90's cars vs. a classic, and that's where I'm torn.

What is the matter with the Sonata? Why can't you keep it?

When I go back to school, I won't be able to continue paying $500+ per month on insurance & loan payments. Insurance is insane here in LA.

[Rusty_OToole]

Cars, girls, school. Pick 2. Sage advice from my old gym teacher, circa 1967.

Is there any way to do without a car entirely? I know it is not easy these days.

If you must have a car, I have often bought good used cars for way less than $3000. I find it best to look in good, suburban neighborhoods. You can find one owner cars with not too many miles for bargain prices if you look. Poor people want top dollar for real tenth hand junkers.

Sometimes I would peruse around nice neighborhoods until I spotted a car with expired plates in someone's driveway. Then come back on Saturday, knock on the door, and make an offer. I might get 1 out of every 5 or 10 cars.

Saturday morning is the best time to catch people home. I would knock on the door, when they answered I would step back and say "Hi, I see you have a car you are not using and wondered if you would like to sell it?" If the answer was a plain no I would thank them and leave. If they expressed interest I would try to get them to name a price then look the car over. If someone says " Now that you mention it my wife has been after me to get rid of it" you can write your own ticket lol. My best bargains were cars where the wife wanted to get it out of the driveway.

By the way if you belong to the Auto Club you can get a car towed home or to a garage free. This has clinched the deal on non running cars. But if the car runs and has plates I always ask the owner to drive it to my place. Surprisingly, they usually will, I have had people deliver cars 50 miles or more (as long as I drove them home lol).

PS I keep looking at your picture of the innocent kitty and imagining him trying to fix a 1954 Plymouth lol.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[Guest Spy]

Smart advice, school limits my income, the girl wants me to have a classic or the Sonata, both of those cars demand more income.

I do need to have a car, as the job I have right now pays me well and requires lots of driving. I would like to replace the Sonata while I'm still working, so that I can reap the benefits of my income instead of pouring my money into loan/insurance payments.

I am a member of AAA, but I certainly do want a running car. The owner of the Plymouth offered to drive it to me if that's any consolation, that's a good 30 miles. If I had to go with a modern car, it would be a 80-90's Volvo, Honda, or Toyota. All of which the girl would hate... I just sold a reliable 90's car two weeks ago, because she didn't like it. Now I feel stupid, particularly if I just go out and buy another one.

[1937-44]

I would like to add two other considerations.

First being brakes. I'm fairly confident this car would have a single master cylinder. There is nothing wrong with that as long as you keep a close eye on the condition of brake lines. Unlike a newer car lose any brake line and you lose all your brakes save the emergency brake.

Second would be insurance. Most antique insurance policies prohibit use as a daily driver. You can get insurance that will cover your liability for daily use through most companies but more than likely you won't collect much of anything for the car or to repair the car if it is in an accident with a typical insurance policy.

[c49er]

Don't buy a Volvo .. you won't ever have any extra money.

[Guest Spy]

Most antique insurance policies prohibit use as a daily driver. You can get insurance that will cover your liability for daily use through most companies but more than likely you won't collect much of anything for the car or to repair the car if it is in an accident with a typical insurance policy.

Right, I understand typical insurance wouldn't offer me much protection, but it is very very cheap. I've gotten quotes around $200 for 6 months

[Guest Spy]

Don't buy a Volvo .. you won't ever have any extra money.

Hey I'm just going by my experience. The only reliable cash cars I've ever owned were 80-90's Volvos, and I abused those cars!

[Rusty_OToole]

"If I had to go with a modern car, it would be a 80-90's Volvo, Honda, or Toyota. All of which the girl would hate... I just sold a reliable 90's car two weeks ago, because she didn't like it. Now I feel stupid, particularly if I just go out and buy another one. "

If she feels that way about it, let her buy the car.

[c49er]

Then I take it back... you should get another one of those extremely reliable cars.

[vermontboy]

I think Rusty_Otoole had the right idea - a 1960's 6 cylinder Mopar, or even Ford or Chevrolet. Valiant, Dart, Falcon, Fairlane, Nova (pricy around here), Chevelle, or even 6 cylinder large cars (Impala, Galaxy, etc). There are lots of them around - they are very easy to work on - you can even find speed parts and stuff for them everywhere.

You could do up an early 60's Mopar Dodge or Plymouth and set it up to look like a hemi while retaining the 6. And in a Dart or Valiant you can really make a Slant Six fully the equal of a stock 273, and faster than the emasculated 318's of the mid 70's.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Smart advice, school limits my income, the girl wants me to have a classic or the Sonata, both of those cars demand more income.

I do need to have a car, as the job I have right now pays me well and requires lots of driving. I would like to replace the Sonata while I'm still working, so that I can reap the benefits of my income instead of pouring my money into loan/insurance payments.

I am a member of AAA, but I certainly do want a running car. The owner of the Plymouth offered to drive it to me if that's any consolation, that's a good 30 miles. If I had to go with a modern car, it would be a 80-90's Volvo, Honda, or Toyota. All of which the girl would hate... I just sold a reliable 90's car two weeks ago, because she didn't like it. Now I feel stupid, particularly if I just go out and buy another one.

You are in TROUBLE already!! If you are doing what "she" says this early in life, you have no chance later. From experience!!!

Ben

[Guest Spy]

I think Rusty_Otoole had the right idea - a 1960's 6 cylinder Mopar, or even Ford or Chevrolet..

I love almost all of the cars you listed, but the issue is still that I can't find anything appealing in reliable daily driver condition for $3000 or less. Those that I have found get 8-9 MPG, which would hurt me worse financially than just keeping the Sonata, as I drive around 2000 miles every month. That Belvedere is supposed to get 17+ on open road, I could live with that.

[Rusty_OToole]

2000 miles per month = 24000 miles per year. Too much to expect of any classic especially on a budget.

Recommend you keep your Sonata and maintain it by the book.

By that, I mean get out the owner's manual and follow it to the letter. When I was in the garage business years ago we had a few customers who did all the maintenance. Even changing brake fluid. Who changes their brake fluid? Well the ones who did, rolled up 200,000 or 300,000 trouble free miles and saved money to boot.

For example, when the car was in for service we would suggest changing the brake pads if they were worn out. This cost about $35. Those who neglected to do this until the brakes were squeeling, paid up to $700 for a brake job with new calipers, hoses, and rotors. The guys who changed their brake fluid and pads never had a caliper seize up and never wore out a rotor.

Cars today do not require a lot of upkeep. You can do a lot at home with some simple tools. Just keeping the car clean and checking the tire pressure, oil, coolant, etc regularly can save a lot of grief.

If you do this your Sonata can give you many years of reliable service.

If you can't afford that, I suggest you buy the best $1000 Honda you can find and also, maintain it by the book. A friend of mine did this when he was in a similar situation, going to school which required him to drive 100 miles a day. His Honda lasted the 4 years and had some god awful amount of miles on it when he was done. I don't recall him working on it very much, although he did regular oil changes etc. When he did need repairs he did them himself with parts from the local junk yard or Pick a Part.

Also it got nearly 50 miles per gallon at 70 MPH.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[DAVES89]

Another option late 80's early 90's is the Buick Reatta. Good looks, newer technology and can get close to 30 highway. Also can be bought relatively cheap...

[JACK M]

Keep an eye out for some old grandmas slant six Duster or Dart. They will go three hundred thousand with routine maintenance and get good mileage.

[Guest Spy]

Just for the sake of compromise, what do you guys think of a 1971 Ford Maverick v6 200ci? Bad car? Good car? It's much cheaper than the plymouth, pretty cool looking, and decent on fuel economy.

[joe_padavano]

Well, the first thing is that it isn't a V6, it's an inline six. That car is pretty bulletproof and is probably a better choice for a daily driver.

[Rusty_OToole]

Maverick was a mediocre car from a time when American cars were at a low ebb in performance, economy, and longevity. If I had a choice between 10 Mavericks or 1 Honda for the same money, I would take the Honda.

I remember the Ford six for bad oil burning due to valve guide wear. I don't recall any other special weak points although I am not much of a Ford expert.

But, if the choice was either Maverick or 54 Belvedere I would take the Maverick. There is such a thing as progress even between 1954 and 71.