Reatta's don't sale to well

[Bli22]

That's good news for those of us who run these cars until they die and then buy more. I'm on my second one. When it goes, I'll go find another one. I still get compliments and stares on that "cute little car."

[Guest Richard D]

I bought my coupe five years ago, purchase price was 1,800 and I have spent around 800 for repairs, AC compressor, wheel hub, CPS.

Some parts were sent from other Reatta owners, upgraded ignition coils and controller, cruise control servo and he semt them no charge, not even shipping. Most Reatta owners on this forum go to extremes to help each other. What I am trying to say is drive your car, enjoy all the thumbs up you get and don't worry about resale value. I can't think of any other car that gives it's owner so much for so little money.

My 2 cents, your mileage may vary

Richard.

Ps. My insurance with State Farm has dropped, even with an agreed value of $5,000 I pay $380 a year, IN MIAMI! The 71 Skylark vert is with a collector car insurance company as a second car.

[Booreatta]

Well what can I say, Ronnie has said, we need to support each other and there will always be good times with our cars. It is clear that most of the trash talk takes place right here on this forum. When we meet at a BCA event there is not hate and discontent. I also get tired of hearing all of the faults of our cars, if you dont like yours instead of trashing our cars, just sell yours and go home. There is an ol rust bucket Falcon in your future. I know I have owned them also.

[Guest WEB 38]

If they don't sell to well.Why the hell did I buy three of them? Bill

[padgett]

The difference between the ones on Craig's like this is that mine is real & documented. (some are so badly done that it is funny).

ps for me, two, a 88coupe and 90 'vert, is enough.

[handmedownreatta]

if i had a 'judge'id have to leave off the decals above the wheels.bad idea of gm imo.

[padgett]

The decals "the Judge",stripes over the wheel arches (70-71), and hockey stick (69) were part of the package. All are available aftermarket but the key is in the data plate and the billing card from Pontiac.

Mine is not completely stock (came with 14x6 wheels and G70-14s) but the additions are period correct & have to be a fanatic to spot (once at a show I got tired of people telling me what was wrong so had a contest to see how many could find everything. None could.). Where you get really into the weeds is with things like the difference between a 69 and 70-71 four speed T-handle.

ps there were 17 '71 Judge convertibles built. All are accounted for and trade in the six figures. Three '70s were built like mine (mainly with 4 speed and a/c).

[Machiner 55]

Most Reatta owners on this forum go to extremes to help each other. What I am trying to say is drive your car, enjoy all the thumbs up you get and don't worry about resale value. I can't think of any other car that gives it's owner so much for so little money.

My 2 cents, your mileage may vary

Richard.

Well said.

To me it has always been about the fun of driving and enjoying a unique car that is not a cookie cutter clone of every other car on the road. It is a car I can maintain my self and do not have to spend a fortune on. costs nothing in taxes and insurance is cheap(relatively) verses a new car. The gas mileage is good. Any car on the positive side of the death spiral is a money maker in my book.

Took the words right out of my mouth Zoltan.

John F.

Edited March 25, 2014 by Machiner 55 (see edit history)

[zoltanb]

To me it has always been about the fun of driving and enjoying a unique car that is not a cookie cutter clone of every other car on the road. It is a car I can maintain my self and do not have to spend a fortune on. costs nothing in taxes and insurance is cheap(relatively) verses a new car. The gas mileage is good. Any car on the positive side of the death spiral is a money maker in my book.

[reattadudes]

like so many others here, I'm a car nut, and that extends to other cars beyond Reattas.

with that being said, I have never seen another forum on the internet that delights...DELIGHTS!! in trashing the value of their very own cars. I've been selling Reatta parts for over twelve years, and have seen values go from a low of $850 in Kelley Blue book just a few years ago to where they are today. and by the way, here are the latest Kelley values:

coupes: fair, $3,100; good, $6,100; excellent: $11,200

convertibles: fair, $5,550; good, $9,600; excellent, $15,300

NADA is even higher than Kelley. Hagerty puts a 1990 Select 60 convertible in #2 condition in the high 20s, and an excellent example in the mid 30s.

none of these publications are talking out of their posteriors; they have done research on what the cars are REALLY selling for. and before the firestorm begins, let me say one thing: unlike the majority of posters here, I know eBay sales are indicative of NOTHING, unless you're quite content with 20%-40% of your car's real value. did any of these value guides use eBay as a basis of values? nope. how about insurance companies? the answer is again no.

I sold a 1990 gunmetal gray Reatta coupe with 24,000 miles on eBay the week between Christmas and New Year's (the worst week of the year to sell anything) of 2009, rolling into 2010, with 2009 being arguably the worst year since 1929. I had a 'buy it now' of $9,995, and it sold way before the auction ended. I had four backup offers, all the way to $14,000. how could this be, since these cars "have no value?"

could it be that it took me five days to write the ad (and there was ZERO Reatta "boilerplate" from Wikipedia), and it contained seventeen paragraphs? could it be that the photographs were numerous and excellent? could it be there was no part of the ad where the words, "THE BAD" appeared, then giving a laundry list of the numerous things that were wrong with the car, because I corrected everything down to the smallest detail?

it was all of the above.

here is a simple thing I learned many years ago, and most people just can't wrap their minds around it. wealthy people will pay absolute top dollar for a really nice car that DOES NOT NEED ANYTHING. IF THE CAR IS TOO CHEAP (even a nice one) THEY AREN'T INTERESTED. while many of the posters here are quite busy rushing toward the bottom (quite voluntarily!), there are others like myself who head in the other direction. over the years, I've sold eighteen 1990 Reatta convertibles that were consigned from customers. all were pristine, one owner cars from the southwest, and needing NOTHING. the lowest price was $22,000, and the highest, $26,500. mileage was in the 50,000-75,000 range.

last night was a classic example. in Scottsdale, there is a car show EVERY Saturday night (all year) at the Scottsdale Pavilions shopping center. you can find it online by Googling "rock and roll McDonalds". on a slow night, there will be at least 600 cars in attendance.

I was out there with my silver convertible, and I had called another 15 of my local customers, and they were all there, too. we had an entire row at the show. a Canadian guy came up to talk to me, saying he had never seen a silver convertible like mine, and asked if it was for sale. I said no, but I had a consignment car in my garage identical to it, and it was for sale. he asked the price, and I told him $22,000. he called his brother, hung up, and said, "sold". he called today to verify that we did indeed have a deal, and we'll be finishing it up tomorrow.

and for those who still want to argue the point, I have a task for you:

I saw a commercial today for dealchicken.com they said you could buy new iPads on their auction 'for 99 cents'.

who is giving Apple a call tomorrow to tell them the $800 retail price is way too high, 'cuz dealchicken.com has them for 99 cents??

a high tide floats ALL boats. think about that.

Mike Rukavina

buickreattaparts.com

Edited March 24, 2014 by reattadudes (see edit history)

[KDirk]

Mike,

I think there are a couple of considerations regarding valuations both real and perceived. First, the type of client and caliber of car you're referring to are clearly in a different strata than the cars ordinary guys like me can and will buy. There is nothing at all wrong with that either, lest anyone get the mistaken impression that I am complaining or being critical.

You are correct that buyers of a certain type want pristine examples that need nothing. I can't fault them for that. I buy cars that are inexpensive because that is what I can afford. I also don't mind - and even enjoy - doing repair and restoration on a worthy bargain. My approach does not likely appeal to the independently wealthy collector who wants a car ready to go at purchase. If there are people willing to pay top dollar ($20k+) for a premium Reatta I'm not complaining, I think it is great there is a segment of the market that will support that level of pricing.

I do worry that if the interest in these cars tilts too far towards that end of the market, I will be shut out. While that may eventually happen, present circumstances have allowed me to build a fleet of my own for less than the cost of one new really nice - but not necessarily luxury - car. And I spread that cost over several years.

What seems to be happening is a bifurcation of the market for these cars. There is the premium market of exclusive buyers and low mile show cars to which you are referring. Then there is the average, higher mileage cars that need work, which is where I, and I suspect many on this forum, exist. That these two disparate portions of Reattadom do not cross paths is not surprising. Would be rather like a debutante gala being held at a honky tonk joint. Those two worlds just don't collide; except in movies where misunderstandings and hilarity ensue.

In any case, I am simply thankful to have had a few opportunities to get decent cars at what I consider stupidly cheap purchase prices. My experience may well be an outlier of some sort. The last two Reattae I purchased essentially fell into my lap at prices too good to pass up despite their respective shortcomings.

Whatever the reason, I am happy to be able to buy a nice, well designed and appointed car that has the bonus of being both unique and reliable at a price that makes it possible for an average guy to enjoy what is otherwise in the domain of those with much greater funding than myself.

Finally (and I have mentioned this before) this forum, like most any automotive club forum that caters to older cars, gets many posts about technical or mechanical problems. That is to be expected as it is a good setting for requesting help in repairing such problems. The greatest number of posts are for such purposes, and that would tend to give the false impression that the Reatta is exceedingly trouble prone.

Most other posts are some sort of bragging/ego stroking (i.e. look at my car/latest mod/new wheels, paint, etc. Or guess how great a deal I just got). Nothing wrong with that either. Just realize that one of the main purposes of a forum like this is to request help fixing something or tracking down a part. This will tend to be misconstrued by the casual observer as a reputation for lots of problems.

As Mark Twain observed, the invalidity of statistics (which are easily manipulated or mis-interpreted to serve a particular agenda) exceeds both lies and damn lies. That effect can be seen in the tendency of people to speak up only when something goes wrong. When only the bad news is reported and observed, many people think that's all there is. Same as it ever was

KDirk

[padgett]

Nada new. In the '80s GTOs were just a gas hog because there were a lot in the lower tier. During the fuel crunch(s) many got 350/2bbls because it was easy.

Also it is not easy to turn a Century into a Reatta, it is trivial to make a LeMans into a GTO. For 66-71 it is in the VIN, 64-65 and 72-74, not so easy. Point I am making is that the Reatta has hit the bottom of the depreciation curve and that split you are seeing is just part of the process. The next thing that happens is that the lower level starts disappearing (and values in Florida seem lower than elsewhere because so many were dumped or wound up here).

One factor is the six digit odos (GTOs have 5) so the real mileage is usually available and often high. When I bought my 88, most were under 100k. That is not true today. Also the availability of parts is better now than then. It is just part of the process.

ps I remember ads like $600 for a Duesy and $5k for a Gullwing Merc.

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

To me, a fellow that sees a nice looking car on the street, and knowing nothing about it, agrees to pay $7K more than the highest book value on the spot, has much more money than sense. Wonder how he feels when he takes it out of his heated and AC'd garage for a spin and the IPC goes blank, and then it stalls and won't restart till it cools off? But of course this would never happen to a garage queen, 25 year old car that was rarely ever driven.

I can see no way that anything discussed on this forum would ever prevent this sale from occurring since this type of buyer would never be bothered with seeking out this site and doing any research Those who do follow this site and have the desire to own a pristine Reatta, despite knowing that the upside potential in future value is not assured, know what to look for and how much a Reatta in any condition is worth today, and can make an informed purchase with the mind and eyes wide open. This is such a small percentage of Reatta owners at the current time that I don't believe this segment should be swaying the current nature of this forum. As Padgett says, when the parts dry up and the daily drivers have long since been scrapped, then this segment will come to the fore and drive the values up. But this time has not come yet, and I make no apologies for my efforts in helping to keep those daily drivers going strong.

Sorry if that might impede one's ability to gouge a naive buyer out of paying more money for one than it is worth according to current market records.

I have never read here from anyone who bragged about the wonderful car they bought by paying more than what it was worth. But I have seen on here where some of those very folks who harp on how this site and Barney's database devalue the mark, bragged about the wonderful Reatta they bought at a low price.

To me my Reattas are not toys that I can afford to park away in storage and only drive once in a blue moon, but are my primary means of transportation that I can appreciate how wonderful they are and what a great value they represent in today's market.

[Guest my3buicks]

I think you may be surprised how many people stumble onto sites like this when looking to buy a car. Today, the first thing someone does when they want to buy something us to sit down and surf information on whatever it is they want to purchase. I really don't care if negative posts about Reattas keep someone from buying one or not, I would be more concerned about how Reattas are perceived overall and how it affects the value and possible collectivity of mine in the future. I am from the school that believes Reatta's time will come, we just have to get all you guys driving beaters off the road.

[Ronnie]

I learned a good lesson about trying to help someone get a Reatta too cheap. This morning I made a post to the Buy/Sell forum that had a link to my website where a gentleman had said he wanted to give his Reatta away for FREE! I had no association with him. I didn't want the car so I wanted to give someone else a chance to get the car.

It appears someone complained about the post I made in the Buy/Sell forum. The result of my effort to help someone get a FREE car was the post I made this morning was deleted and I was instructed to remove links to the Reatta Store (which helps support my website) from my signature line. I have always heard that no good deed goes unpunished. Now I know for certain that it's true.

Whoever complained can give yourself a pat of the back for getting my post removed so no one else would know about it. I personally think it was very selfish of you to do that.

[reattadudes]

a car with 70,000 miles is far from a "garage queen". I have been very familiar with all of the cars I've sold, and each and every one was a daily driver before they chose to buy a new car. I don't look at the fact that they chose to take fanatical care of them as being a detriment.

I've owned over 350 cars in my life, with about 150 of those being of the interesting/collector variety. with a very few exceptions, I've NEVER found that typical "cheap" car purchase to be a "deal" in the long run....and any car collector with a shred of sense knows this, too. they are in reality always money pits, in addition that an original car is only original once.

for example, the silver car I'm talking about comes with the following items: NOS front and rear bumpers, still in GM wrapping. NOS tail light lens, as well as a complete NOS tail light assembly, both still in GM boxes; 2 sets of NOS floor mats, still in boxes, as well as the two additional sets that are in the car; 2 remotes, still in the bags, in addition to the two that the car came with.

the owner had the dealer install custom sheepskin covers before they took delivery of the car. as a result, the seats are in "as new" condition, with not a single fold or crease in the supple leather. they had the steering wheel leather covered with another professionally installed leather cover, to keep the original one perfect.

when I received the car, I had the top replaced with a German twill cloth top (it was an additional $250 on top of the cloth upgrade), as well as a matching slate gray Alcantara ultrasuede headliner. the top was an exact match to the silver paint, as the headliner was an exact match to the interior. the 15 inch wheels came off, replaced with a set of the 16" 4020 (Hollander guide interchange number) chrome wheels (look very similar to 1991 Reatta wheels) as well as a set of "Steve Scott" chrome wheel centers with Reatta emblems. the wheels received a new set of 215/60 16 Goodyear Assurance Comfortread tires. the garish black pinstriping was replaced with a "tone on tone' gray stripe that was slightly darker than the silver paint. the bumpers were also polished.

I would like to think that the buyer is getting ever dime of his money's worth.

and speaking of what something is worth, along with the comments of "they paid too much", let me ask a few questions:

-have homes in your area increased in value in the past 10 years?

-if they have, have you cursed your neighbor when they set a new high price for the neighborhood?

-if you're living in an apartment, is the rent the same as it was 30 years ago? if not, why?

-has your income never gone up since you started twenty years ago?

-have you ever seen a car on the block at Barrett-Jackson, with the bidding fast and feverish? have you ever seen Craig Jackson put his hand up, stop the bidding, and say, "now its high enough, we don't need it to go any higher!"?

-if you were involved in an accident that was not your fault, would you tell the adjuster to check with NADA, Kelley, or Hagerty for a correct valuation, or would you say, "hey its a beater, and I only paid $600 for it?"

-do you suppose folks on the Mustang and Hemi 'Cuda sites are sharing information of how to make a shaker hood out of a stock one, using only tin snips and bondo, or are they stepping up to the plate for a $6,000 correct shaker hood?

-do you suppose folks on the GNX sites are lamenting the fact that the value of their cars is skyrocketing? it was only a very few years ago Hemmings was clogged with columns of "still in wrapper" GNXs, all trying to get 30K. today, the Kelley value of an excellent example of a Grand National is $35,600 with a two hundred percent add for the GNX package on top of the Grand National. do you suppose these very high valuations of excellent examples help those of driver quality GNXs as well? of course they do!

as I mentioned, a high tide floats all boats; in other words, those allegedly "overpriced" cars help everyone. it seems some here really prefer low tide, don't they?

Mike Rukavina

buickreattaparts.com

Edited March 24, 2014 by reattadudes (see edit history)

[padgett]

For the Reatta group. I just put a post in the moderator's forum about what happened to Ronnie. I am not at liberty to post what I responded to but the bottom line was that commercial links should be in the commercial buy-sell.

My post: "Is that a policy decision or arbitrary ? My opinion is that vendors are the lifeblood of the hobby and if a member puts a link to his or her own site in their .sig, there is nothing wrong with that. Or is there now a policy disallowing any member to put their website link in their sig like mine ?"

[Guest WEB 38]

As scarce as the Reatta parts are I don't see how they are posted that makes a differance if they can help out a fellow Reatta owner. Bill

[60FlatTop]

I always deduct $1,000 worth of fun per year from the total price I have in my cars. I make out pretty good when you do the math.

Bernie

[Guest Corvanti]

well, some of the posts here remind me that i have had a "parts car", as some have stated in the past, that has been my daily driver (most of the time) for over 2 years now. i reckon i should just call a tow truck so it can go to the crusher!

Kevin, "Mc" and some others: great posts!:cool:

Ronnie: perhaps just a link to the "ROJ" home page will suffice in the signature line until the "powers that be" see their error.:mad:

Padgett: apparently the GTO crowd are almost as "anal" as the Corvette crowd was with my "numbers matching", "correct" '80 C3. as long as a "clone" or "tribute" car for sale indicates that, i don't have a problem. no way i would pay anything close to an original for a clone...

get your Reatta out to multi-make car shows - '88 & '89s meet the 25 year date that most shows have. even if it's not a "trailer queen", many will be made aware. perhaps someone entering the classic car hobby or on a limited income, will save a supposed "parts car" (as some say) daily driver Reatta for sale, make needed repairs and fall in love...

end of rant!

[padgett]

Other than the wheels and tires and air horns & a bit of reprogramming, my 88 triple blue sunroof is as close to stock as any car I have had. Can out AR just about anyone but is part of the reason I quit judging and the platinum class in particular. Too many "entrants" just wanted to run their price up and did not like it when I pointed out things particularlt expensive repops done rong (Delco plug wires of an age were embossed, not silkscreened, back then "OEM" tires did not have FMVSS markings or DOT date codes).

All came to head when someone with a 67 goat swore up and down and at me when I pointed out that the super rare late year intro hood tach and guage package on that car shouldn't have the gauges in the hole occupied by the clock (and other errors even more obscure). After that I just kibitzed.

[Guest Richard D]

Towards the end of last year I was watching a live Mecum auction, I was reading and used the auction as background noise, when it is

Dead quite I have a problem reading quickly, yes I know, strange. Anyway I heard the word Reatta and paid full attention to the auction.

Mecum has one of the best commentary hosts, I believe his name is John Kraman, a walking reference book to all things automotive.

A Reatta was crossing the block and he said the Reatta line has crossed the low end of depreciation and are now slowly going up in value.

Not all of course but clean daily drivers and low mileage examples had hit the bottom of the curve. He also said something about this is not

the way to make money but is a good way to enjoy a car and when the time comes you can sell it for what you paid for it and maybe a little

more than you paid. However as I have said, drive your car and enjoy it, don't always worry about its value. If you want to invest money

talk to an investment firm, don't buy a car. Look at all the folks who bought the last convertible that GM was going to make, the mid 70s

Eldorado, or one of the first Vipers. These cars sat in garages for many years, then sold for less than sticker.

[Guest BJM]

I think you may be surprised how many people stumble onto sites like this when looking to buy a car. Today, the first thing someone does when they want to buy something us to sit down and surf information on whatever it is they want to purchase. I really don't care if negative posts about Reattas keep someone from buying one or not, I would be more concerned about how Reattas are perceived overall and how it affects the value and possible collectivity of mine in the future. I am from the school that believes Reatta's time will come, we just have to get all you guys driving beaters off the road.

I always do on line research into cars I am considering purchasing. I have moved away from Buicks, and when I find something for sale, I always google that car. It has helped tremendously. There are forums for about every car, plus decent summaries in Wikipedia.

[Guest BJM]

Some Buick guys know, I do a lot of CL searches for enjoyment. I think I have seen far less Reatta activity in the last 8 months. That might be nothing, but might be significant.

For instance, about 3-4 years ago I still saw a lot of the 79-85 last generation Buick full size cars on CraigsList, then it died. Now, typically I might find 1 or none of that generation in a search of a particular city, and they are either really nice cars or junk.

So, the Reatta is 3-6 years newer and it's 4 years later and now I see Reattas in less numbers. I used to be able to see 3-4 Reattas or more regularly in major metro areas. Now, much less. I could do a few state search and locate 50-75 Reattas. Now, maybe 20. Maybe.

[Guest BJM]

I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with. The main reason they didn't sell a lot of them when they were new was the fact they were expensive for a GM car; now they are a relative bargain for what you get. All I'm saying is it's a nice car for the money.

I can get an apples to apples 560SL for the same difference in price, adjusted, as a Reatta new. In other words, a new 560SL was $55,000 or so, a new Reatta $30,000. We can haggle a little on those prices but that's not the point.

Now, I can get a 560SL with 120,000 well maintained miles for $7500 to $9000. I can get a nice Reatta with 120,000 miles for $2500 to $3500.

ALL of the cool 1980's and 1990's cars have depreciated a LOT. I buy projects usually but some drivers and am always amazed at the prices now vs new. I am looking at a 1982 Porsche 928 for $1500 that sold new for $52,000 in 1982 dollars. My BMW 635 Csi was the flagship coupe and I got it for $850. Nic drivers go for $5000.

So, it's not just the Reatta. It's price vs demand, Macroeconomics 101.

[wws944]

... I am looking at a 1982 Porsche 928 for $1500 that sold new for $52,000 in 1982 dollars...

Run, don't walk, away from that one...

Speaking as one who does own a low-mile garage queen Reatta, I really don't care what its value is or will be. I enjoy owning the car. And I like seeing, and hopefully occasionally helping, all the folks here working on them and keeping them going - regardless of condition. The more of us there are, the better the support network will be. With all our collective enthusiasm, the Reatta forum is the busiest forum on the entire AACA web site!

There are countless automotive forums on the internet. Kevin mentioned Usenet. I used to be an avid follower of rec.autos.misc and other such newsgroups long before there were such things as web forums. Every one has threads about best/strangest/worst features of their respective cars. Anyone who says otherwise is not looking very closely.

[padgett]

Only 928 I'd consider would be an "S" with manual trans and then would check out thoroughly. Could be a real money pit and I am not a fan of telephone dial wheels.

Any more I only consider cars with online service manuals or where available on a CD.

[wws944]

... Could be a real money pit and I am not a fan of telephone dial wheels...

Replace "could" with "will".

I had a set of teledials on my 944 for many years, but am currently running Fuchs. Cast vs forged, the Fuchs are several lbs/wheel lighter.

[Guest BJM]

I have owned many makes and was a major manufacturer certified technician and ASE master. That certainly doesn't make me an expert but I worked next to the Porsche Master Technician for 6 years and he remains a friend. Together or separately we have owned several Porsches including the 928's, 944's, Boxsters, etc.

I am not a phone dial fan, they are stupid looking. I was looking at a 1982 Weissach edition, one of 205 made and it would not phase me at all to buy it. I know what to look for and what are common ailments having helped work on them for 6 + years.

As reliable as a Reatta, of which I have also owned. I ended up buying a 1992 Mercedes Benz 600 SEL to replace my Jaguar. I can tell you, I tried hard to find a Reatta coupe for the same money and the market has dried up. I would love to have a "driver" 1990 Driftwood coupe with about 130,000 miles, love to. But I couldn't find anything.

[Guest my3buicks]

There is a Driftwood coupe currently on Evilbay.

[Guest BJM]

From Reatta Parts West? Sounds like one of 'us'. Nice traction at $4500 with an unrealistic $8500 Buy It Now and a reserve. That's a nice one and shows why that color works (IMO) with the nice saddle interior. Note all the other evilbay Reattas are red.

[wws944]

...I am not a phone dial fan, they are stupid looking. I was looking at a 1982 Weissach edition, one of 205 made and it would not phase me at all to buy it. I know what to look for and what are common ailments having helped work on them for 6 + years...

The 944 teledials were, IMO, better looking than the 928 teledials. The 944 version doesn't have that pronounced rim around the big holes. But I like the old-school Fuchs look a lot better. Mine have silver rims with the centers blacked out - so the car looks like it is moving, even when it isn't. (My daughter likes the teledial look better. Go figure.)

At this point, I would only recommend a 928 to someone who really knows what they are getting into. It sounds as if you do. So if you decide to pull the trigger, have fun!

[jbeary]

Damn Ronnie. Why do people like picking on you so much? Link hit counts matter and why you can't use a link in your signature is as padgett said an "arbitrary" policy decision...

Walter, speaking of FREE, my uncle died last year and his prized 928 is still in the garage. He also owned a Toyota Solara. I told my aunt to sell the Solara for $6k and give the Porsche away because she'd eventually have to pay someone to haul it off. Solara is gone, Porsche is still there if anyone wants it I can send them the address in Kenner, La. Both cars needed work but at least I could get the Toyota to start.

I think Padgett put up a good post with very very valid points about the 90's in general. The "greatest generation" drove innovation like no other generation in modern history. My folks, part of the "silent generation" prospered in a long span of peacetime. My wife's parent's generation, the "baby boomers" went to 'nam, came back, had trouble adapting but still prospered and passed all sorts of emotional garbage onto their children when their dreams of the 60's quickly faded from 1963 on into (and through) the distress of the mid sixties to the mid seventies. As a comparison, work ethic being one point, my father in law worked so he could retire, my father still works. What one sees as a means to an end the other sees as an end to the means. The Reatta was designed by the "silent generation" and came into being after being filtered through the "baby boomer" generation. The Reatta is an anomaly, so is the LeSabre T Type. At some point in high school (probably after seeing American Graffiti), I got it in my mind that I wanted my first car to be a '55 Chevy. I found one locally and remember my telling my dad about it and his remark was: "Why do you want a piece of s**t like that"? He bought me a really nice 72 Monte Carlo with those captain chair seats, AM/FM, A/C... I sold that car, bought the '55 Chevy and drove that tank back and forth to school for a year. I could not wait to sell it so I could have another GM "A" body. I ended up with the GS 400 by the time I'd graduated. When I could actually afford to carry a note, I bought a Grand National after college. While I knew about the Reatta, I was never much interested in it until 20 some odd years later. I never thought I'd own a front wheel drive car but I LOVE this car. IMHO, I think the value of the 68-72 GM's are being set by people who missed out on owning one back in 1980. The gen-x'rs are just coming of age now, once their kids are gone and they have some cash, they too will be looking to buy something they missed out on. And the cars from the 90's are mostly forgotten now and hardly show up in your local junkyard because people of generation X were either too busy to notice or didn't ever care that the car Lee Iacocca was riding in while waving the American flag was powered by a Japanese engine. Scarcity NEVER dictates value, popularity does.

[padgett]

Minor quibble: popularity fuels desire, rarity fuels price. The Reatta is probably more popular now than a decade ago but there are still enough lowball and estate cars to keep the price down.

Guess am an anomaly. Viet vet/baby boomer. Still work because it is interesting and my commute is upstairs. Grew up with computers & in process of adding BT/HFP/USB to my 90 'vert that is one of my DDs.

BTW can put a link in the .sig just need to know BB code rather than HTML. (I know lotsa languages: Unix, Basic, Fortran...)

[jbeary]

No offense at all Padgett. I think there are exceptions to every rule and generalizations often offend so I apologize. Did not want to kill this thread because it's helpful in understanding why/how I can let the other two cars I've had for years languish while I spend time and money on my Reatta's.

Also, I wouldn't say that my father in law does not work, but he certainly does not have a boss where my father does. Granted my father works 1/2 day's but he still drives in every day and is available in case of emergencies. My father taught me cobol when I was a child and while I never wanted it, my profession is in computers too. Would rather be doing something else for money but can't seem to find anything that suits me and pay's what they pay at my current jobby. My father enjoys putting out fires and I don't.

Truly want to understand the generational thing here because while my wife owned and loved her Saturn SC coupe, she hates the Reatta. Just does not like the major overhang of the front end. She's a designer by training but runs the record store we own. Crazy how technology can be embraced differently over the course of generations and I regularly see new customers, young and old coming in buying records where I thought by now there would be few hold outs. I tell the kids I speak with to buy CD's and avoid the trouble of vinyl if they don't want to at least clean their needle... to maybe try and understand the concept of listening to the point of critical listening. Surprising me more is the younger females embracing vinyl where there wasn't that cross section when I started seriously collecting.

Yes, you are correct, there are lot's of people who are into hunting for that $200-$500 rare record just to tell their friends that they have it. Fact of the matter is, if you have money, you can easily buy whatever you want. However, (generally speaking) attaining that position comes with years of refinement. And yeah, just because I can, I still don't buy what I know I won't enjoy. I don't get much satisfaction from having something someone else wants yet lots of record nerds do. If I hear someone bragging about having a huge collection or how they have this or that rare record, I instantly know that they are more interested in accumulating rather than collecting. That's the difference between having four huge paperweights and loving the cars I have. By no means do I consider myself a car "collector" but I do have a small collection of cars. Like you say, the best opportunity to have something pre-loved is when estates turn over and that's exactly where we are with the timing of the Reatta's popularity.

What I really love is that this car is waaayyy over-engineered. And properly maintained, it's a horribly dependable car albeit not all that seat of the pants exciting. Sort of like a comfy old coat. And it was easier to justify this car to my wife over a vette or something screaming for attention.

[padgett]

Just tell her the long nose is for aerodynamics and the Reatta gets better mpg than an Allante.

ps everything I play is on mp3s and wmas, have over 300 albums on my cell phone and now can play them on my Reatta. Sounds much better than Sirius.

Edited March 28, 2014 by padgett (see edit history)