Reatta's don't sale to well

[Guest slwalton72]

I bought my '90 coupe 1 1/2yrs. ago and thought I was getting a pretty good deal on a farely rare car @ $1400. Well since I've had it I've put on a new alternator, power steering pump, O2, crank, cam sensor's, harmonic balancer, icm, coil & plug wires and timing belt. The car runs beautiful and handles fantastic with a 122,xxx miles. It needs a paint job and the burgundy interior has faded. I have tested the water a few times with it at what I feel is a fair price, but it seems not to many people are interested in them and the few that are want them for nothing. So I've come to the conclusion I'm just gonna keep it and make me a toy out of it, turbo or super charge it, update the suspension with some newer parts maybe from a Buick Lucern, do a color change to black and interior to tan.

[Barney Eaton]

If you sold it what would you buy? Even if you got the $1400 back that you paid for it, you can't buy a used taxi for that.

[Guest slwalton72]

You would be suprized at what can be found in East Tx. for $2grand or less in decent shape. I ride my bike alot and spot things and stop and talk to folks. There's alot available in that price range. Please don't misunderstand me Im not knocking the Reatta, I like it. I feel its a highly over looked collectable, especially considering how few were made and how few are left. I wouldn't let mine go for $1400, shoot I could get in that thing and drive it cross country and back guarenteed no problems and get fantastic gas mileage doing it...lol

[KDirk]

You are correct that the resale value is rather poor excepting the remaining real primo lower mile cars that have had the stuff you listed already [mostly] done.

I bought a 91 vert today or about what you got your 90 coupe for. Is higher mileage but paint is mostly good and the interior is still really nice. I wouldn't have paid more than I did as I know how much I will end up spending to get it decent.

Point being that a 20+ year old car with a lot of miles will need a lot of work, so the price paid needs to account for that. I probably could have waited and bought one much nicer needing less work for 3 or 4 times the price and avoided doing a lot of work. May have even been a wash in dollar terms but I guess I like saving the cast offs. Hate to see a decent project car get parted or junked. Of course, some are too far gone to save, but I avoid those heaps.

KDirk

[Guest slwalton72]

Well to me the convertible you got a good deal on. It'll be worth every penny. I don't regret buying mine at all and feel I paid a fair price for what I got and actually the car suprised me cause I didn't expect it to handle as well as it does. The bidy is immaculant, no dent or rust, just the crappy GM paint....lol. That why I've decided to just go ahead and tear it down and put it back together to suit me and what I envision the car to beand drive. Who knows someday these things may become the secret gem and values skyrocket and if not then I'll for sure have a rare car that I personalized to my taste and made it a one of a kind.....

[ol' yeller]

Shawn, you're never going to get your money back so just make the car what you want and enjoy it. Even though I bought my low mileage '90 vert very well, I don't ever expect to get back what I got into it. What I do have though is a very nice sporty car that still draws looks and comments and puts a huge smile on my face every time I drive it. As an aside, I think you meant to say you replaced the timing chain as these cars don't have a timing belt. Replacement of the timing chain at 122K is pretty unusual for the 3800.

Greg

[Guest BJM]

I bought a 91 vert today or about what you got your 90 coupe for.

KDirk

Do share, any 1991 convertible Reatta is rare and interesting

[Guest BJM]

No it's not about making money on your coupe but consider like I did a 1987 Toyota Supra Turbo I bought last year for a few months. I drove it. I drove it a lot. I put in a new windshield and 2 new tires for $450. But, I "depreciated" it by driving it and using it as a daily driver, so I justified not getting all my money back.

I lost money on my 1990 Red/Tan Reatta convertible too. Right before it sold on ebay I had to buy a harmonic balancer and CPS from Ronnie. But I wanted it gone, so that's how it goes.

[Guest slwalton72]

Greg your right I did mean chain and I did it because I already had half the stuff off of it so I just went ahead and replaced it, so I know Im good for a while. I couldn't agree with you more about it putting a smile on my face. Im 6'3" and was really amazed at how much room it has, though it is hard for me to get out of at times. I've had a fusion from L3-S1. The only thing from my view is that it needs a little more power so Im looking into the options that are available. As I move forward with it I will be documenting and taking plenty of pictures to share here. I know the first thing Im doing is getting myself educated on the Teve's system, it seems to be a troubling issue on these cars, possibly even doing a conversion on it.....

[jbeary]

Ya Kdirk. If you want to make a few hundred bucks on your recent 91 purchase, I think I could swing $2k this month.

[KDirk]

Eh, don't tempt me. The decision to get the vert now was due to the price and the fact that nice weather is almost upon us in STL. I plan to run it this spring, summer and fall. Will see how enamored I am of it by winter. If I decide I dislike the drop top experience perhaps I'll unload it next year. By then though it wil have most of its deficiencies addressed so will be a nicer car than it is now.

I'm guessing I will hang on to it. A decent running car for under 2 large is a good buy and unless I'm starving have no reason to sell it off.

Oops, pardon my threadjack. Back to regular programming.

KDirk

[jbeary]

Yo Kdirk, y'all's rollin in style, fo shizzle. I'd be all up in dat mah self if'in i didn't have me two o me own. Check this, if I brought home another hoopty, it better be comfy enuf to sleep in fo sho. Try in' to keep mah shortie happy up in da crib, if'in y'all know. Two g's can bring out the happydizzle dance when it be new shoes or sumptin other than another Brrrureck. Sposin' I need to sell one byb grl be fo I go an be buyin another.

[Guest K_lo]

I bought my Reatta coupe 2 1/2 years ago for $6400. Yep. The owner was asking 11k. I have watched the value steadily decline since I bought it, but I don't regret it. Someone else probably would have paid the same or close to it and I couldn't buy anything for that amount of money that I would enjoy as much.

[Guest Kitskaboodle]

Welcome to the wonderful world of GM car ownership depreciation.

[Machiner 55]

Yah, but don't ya just luv'em?

John F.

[Barney Eaton]

I purchased a new 2011 Enclave 3 year ago and somehow it is not worth what I paid for it. It only has 40K and would probably be very lucky to get $15k for it, if I do the math it will make me ill.

[Bushwack]

You have more money in the car then its worth. Either cut your losses and get whatever someone is willing to give you or drive it for awhile. In its current condition, three years from now I don't think you would get any less money then you would today

I agree you should keep it, make it spiffy and drive it in good health. Rarity of a car doesn't make it valuable.

I bought my '90 coupe 1 1/2yrs. ago and thought I was getting a pretty good deal on a farely rare car @ $1400. Well since I've had it I've put on a new alternator, power steering pump, O2, crank, cam sensor's, harmonic balancer, icm, coil & plug wires and timing belt. The car runs beautiful and handles fantastic with a 122,xxx miles. It needs a paint job and the burgundy interior has faded. I have tested the water a few times with it at what I feel is a fair price, but it seems not to many people are interested in them and the few that are want them for nothing. So I've come to the conclusion I'm just gonna keep it and make me a toy out of it, turbo or super charge it, update the suspension with some newer parts maybe from a Buick Lucern, do a color change to black and interior to tan.

[Ronnie]

I purchased a new 2011 Enclave 3 year ago and somehow it is not worth what I paid for it. It only has 40K and would probably be very lucky to get $15k for it, if I do the math it will make me ill.

Contact me if you are interested in selling it for $15k.

[Guest K_lo]

Yah, but don't ya just luv'em?

John F.

Yep. I bought mine from the original owner with 45k miles, never driven in winter or rain...pretty much perfect. I planned on really limiting the miles I put on it, but since the value has taken a nose dive I figured I might as well get the most enjoyment out it I could. It's still pretty much perfect it just has about 67k miles on it now.

[Guest VTRex]

I totally agree with Bushwack! Just because there aren't many Reattas doesn't mean it should be more valuable. Reattas never sold well. That's why production numbers were so low. I'm not sure why anyone thinks the same car that didn't sell well 24 years ago would sell well 24 years later.

I bought mine because it was a low mileage car in good shape. It is not some sort of collectors item as some would want you to believe. If that were the case you wouldn't have people on websites such as this one trying to talk them up all the time. Most people are on here just to keep their old Buicks running. Nothing more.

[Guest K_lo]

I totally agree with Bushwack! Just because there aren't many Reattas doesn't mean it should be more valuable. Reattas never sold well. That's why production numbers were so low. I'm not sure why anyone thinks the same car that didn't sell well 24 years ago would sell well 24 years later.

I bought mine because it was a low mileage car in good shape. It is not some sort of collectors item as some would want you to believe. If that were the case you wouldn't have people on websites such as this one trying to talk them up all the time. Most people are on here just to keep their old Buicks running. Nothing more.

Because when they were new they were very expensive, now it's a whole lotta car for the money.

[Ronnie]

The rules for buying a used Reatta are the same as for buying stocks. 1) Don't invest anymore than you can afford to loose. 2) You don't actually lose any money until you sell. 3) When bad news is reported about a stock the value is sure to drop no matter if the news is true or not. That applies to our Reattas as well. We should be careful and think about what we say. You never know who is listening.

Reatta owners as a group are hurting ourselves by continually pointing out the negative aspects of owning a Reatta on this forum and elsewhere. Some people hate the brakes... Mainly because they don't take the time to learn about them and fail to do the required maintenance on them to keep them in good operating condition. Some people hate the electronics... Reatta electronics are prone to fail as they age but the fact is the electronics in the Reatta are very durable and most parts are still readily available either new, rebuilt or used. Some people complain about the lack of availability of some of the unique parts of these cars... That is normal for a car built 25 years ago. The truth is the Reatta used more standard, off the shelf, parts than I would have expected for a unique car that didn't come down an assembly line. If you think that's not true just go down to your local auto parts store and ask for some parts for your Ferrari, Lotus or some other hand built car then watch the look on employees face change to a look of "Are you kidding me?". Most good parts guys who have been in the business for a long time can probably tell you the part numbers you need for your 3800 off the top of his head. You won't find that to be true for many hand built cars that are 25 years old.

Instead of complaining we should be doing what we can to promote these cars. We should support the Reatta club and they should do more to support us. We should be letting the world know about what an enjoyable car the Reatta is to drive. We should be telling them about all the luxury features like the leather seats that came standard in our cars and how well they have held for so many years. My leather seats are 25 years old. Although they don't have a perfect shine like they once did, they don't have a single crack or torn place in the leather. That's something that can't be said about a lot of high end cars.

And most of all we should let everyone know that we have a great network of people and websites willing to help Reatta owners restore and maintain these cars. We also should let them know that we have a network of honest and reliable used parts vendors who are able to supply the parts we need. Another thing Reatta owners have going is we have a group of people like Barney, Kingsley, Kevin, Mc_Reatta, David, and others who are working on ways to either rebuild or manufacture parts for the Reatta that are no longer available. I feel they are an asset to the Reatta community. They are leading the way to keeping these cars on the road and we should never take them for granted. We should let all these people know how much we appreciate them.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Ronnie (see edit history)

[drtidmore]

I totally agree that we should not make a habit of trash talking our Reattas. They are 25 year old cars and there is NOT a single 25 year old car out there that does NOT have maintenance warts. I am one of a few that have owned their Reatta from the day it left the showroom floor. I never once looked at it as an investment. My Reatta was an incredibly reliable daily driver for many, many years. In fact for the first 15 years of its life, outside of a failed CPS (warranty), the only thing I had to do was oil and tires. Absolutely NOTHING else failed on it. The car won a place of admiration for the years of enjoyment it provided and when I could have junked it or sold it for next to nothing years ago, I chose to hang onto it. Even after a number of years of proper storage, all it took to bring it back to life was fresh gas. Granted in the past 8 months or so, I have put way more than it is "worth" back into it but it is a labor of love and not something that I expect to recoup. My daughter always loved the Reatta (she was 8 when I purchased it). My restoration efforts and costs are more than justified as a physical memory of her childhood, and YES she has openly stated that she intends to keep it running after I am gone or no longer able to do such.

These were unique cars. There are many untold stories about them that have been lost to history. They were built to standards that even many contemporary super luxury brands were unable to match. HP (the HP BEFORE Carly) did all the test instrumentation (unique I might add) on the craft center line. The Reatta was the most thoroughly tested car ever to leave a GM production line. Was it perfect, no, but time has shown that it was well engineered and assembled with care.

As Ronnie has pointed out, many of the complaints voiced are due to lack of proper maintenance when the Reatta was younger. As do many, I am stockpiling spare parts that will only become more difficult to locate as the Reatta continues to age, especially the electronics that are unique (i.e. excluding the BCM/ICM/ECM as those are will remain available for many, many years due to the choice of the 3800 series engine). There are other 25 year old cars out there what will cost less to maintain or restore, but few that can match the level of luxury and enjoyment that a Reatta can deliver.

We may be a small band of devotees, but we have all been bitten by the Reatta bug and like many other unjustifiable ventures, we will continue to pour money and effort to keep our Reatta roadworthy, bringing joy each and every time we drive them.

Edited March 18, 2014 by drtidmore (see edit history)

[Guest K_lo]

I totally agree that we should not make a habit of trash talking our Reattas. They are 25 year old cars and there is NOT a single 25 year old car out there that does NOT have maintenance warts. I am one of a few that have owned their Reatta from the day it left the showroom floor. I never once looked at it as an investment. My Reatta was an incredibly reliable daily driver for many, many years. In fact for the first 15 years of its life, outside of a failed CPS (warranty), the only thing I had to do was oil and tires. Absolutely NOTHING else failed on it. The car won a place of admiration for the years of enjoyment it provided and when I could have junked it or sold it for next to nothing years ago, I chose to hang onto it. Even after a number of years of proper storage, all it took to bring it back to life was fresh gas. Granted in the past 8 months or so, I have put way more than it is "worth" back into it but it is a labor of love and not something that I expect to recoup. My daughter always loved the Reatta (she was 8 when I purchased it). My restoration efforts and costs are more than justified as a physical memory of her childhood, and YES she has openly stated that she intends to keep it running after I am gone or no longer able to do such.

These were unique cars. There are many untold stories about them that have been lost to history. They were built to standards that even many contemporary super luxury brands were unable to match. HP (the HP BEFORE Carly) did all the test instrumentation (unique I might add) on the craft center line. The Reatta was the most thoroughly tested car ever to leave a GM production line. Was it perfect, no, but time has shown that it was well engineered and assembled with care.

As Ronnie has pointed out, many of the complaints voiced are due to lack of proper maintenance when the Reatta was younger. As do many, I am stockpiling spare parts that will only become more difficult to locate as the Reatta continues to age, especially the electronics that are unique (i.e. excluding the BCM/ICM/ECM as those are will remain available for many, many years due to the choice of the 3800 series engine). There are other 25 year old cars out there what will cost less to maintain or restore, but few that can match the level of luxury and enjoyment that a Reatta can deliver.

We may be a small band of devotees, but we have all been bitten by the Reatta bug and like many other unjustifiable ventures, we will continue to pour money and effort to keep our Reatta roadworthy, bringing joy each and every time we drive them.

and one of the great things about our cars is you can do a lot of the work on them yourself.

[Guest Kitskaboodle]

Personally, even if there were some "trash talkin", I think most people who know anything at all about GM cars know that GM cars have their flaws and probably wouldn't even raise an eyebrow over it. The fact that they are lurking at our site shows the allure these cars have, flaws or not. There are other cars that have known flaws and people still buy them. Look at Fiero's : headlight issues, tail light delamination, cracked/crazed sail panels, phantom wipes, blown ICM's, sloppy/tired suspension, shearing ball joints, etc... but that doesn't dissuade people from wanting to buy them.

In another note....I don't like the term trash talkin. I like to refer to it as "venting". Ok, I feel better now.

[Guest VTRex]

Because when they were new they were very expensive, now it's a whole lotta car for the money.

Disagree. 2 years ago I sold my 560SL. That was pretty expensive when it was new in 1987. And it sold for a whole bunch more than I've ever seen a Reatta go for. Reason: it was popular then at any price and remained so throughout the years. Roughly the same comfort level and size (inside) as the Reatta.

[Ronnie]

Disagree. 2 years ago I sold my 560SL. That was pretty expensive when it was new in 1987. And it sold for a whole bunch more than I've ever seen a Reatta go for. Reason: it was popular then at any price and remained so throughout the years. Roughly the same comfort level and size (inside) as the Reatta.

Do you feel that it is fair to compare the sale of a car that retailed for over 55k in '87 to a car that retailed for about 30k when new? I don't feel it is. Also, you don't give us any numbers so we have no way to evaluate your comparison. I don't want to argue because you have a good point but at least we should have enough information about your claim that we could post a response based on facts.

[KDirk]

I think Ronnie has some good points. I would say that while I engage in honest and pragmatic discussion here about these cars (good, bad, and otherwise) I don't trash talk the Reatta publicly. And why would I? I really admire and enjoy these cars. That should be obvious, as I now own four.

All that said, honest discussion about maintenance and repair problems are neccessary for things to get done right. Regulars here understand that. Outsiders who read accounts of unusual and complex problems we iron out on here (as my convoluted list of problems on my 1st 88 coupe a couple of years back) may mistakenly get the idea that the Reatta is prone to major problems that are hard to fix. While that can be true of any car, it is not typical of the Reatta.

Usually this happens due to poor or improper maintenance/repairs previously done by those too stupid or cheap to do things right. Then someone like me gets the car and has to figure out what needs to be corrected. This is an inherent risk with any previously owned car.

When people ask me about my cars, I speak highly of them. I am also honest that each of them took major efforts and expense on my part to get them as they are now. Restoring cars is not a casual or cheap hobby. If you have the skillset to do much of your own work it is more manageable and also quite rewarding as you get to enjoy the fruits of your own labor.

Realistically, the Reatta is not a great car for someone who wants a cheap but reliable daily driver. It is a 23+ year old car that will need geriatric care to remain viable.

It is a great car for someone who wants a uniquely styled car with some exclusivity on a budget. That comes with the caveat you should be prepared to spend time and money - perhaps lots of both - to get one right. If you can't or won't make that commitment, then you need a new (or newer) car probably with some warranty. I don't say this to discourage potential buyers.

I want people to have realistic expectations of what they are taking on. If they come in to the Reatta ownership experience thinking it will be a piece if cake, they ae bound to be dissapointed and even bitter when it seems like something expensive goes wrong on a weekly (or more frequent) basis. These are the owners who will complain loudly, thus hurting the overall reputation of these cars. And they do have some inherent baggage inasmuch as their status as a late 80's GM product.

Overall, they are very nice cars and truly enjoyable when you have one that is in proper condition. They are not a profit making investment by any means.

KDirk

[Guest K_lo]

Disagree. 2 years ago I sold my 560SL. That was pretty expensive when it was new in 1987. And it sold for a whole bunch more than I've ever seen a Reatta go for. Reason: it was popular then at any price and remained so throughout the years. Roughly the same comfort level and size (inside) as the Reatta.

I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with. The main reason they didn't sell a lot of them when they were new was the fact they were expensive for a GM car; now they are a relative bargain for what you get. All I'm saying is it's a nice car for the money.

Edited March 18, 2014 by K_lo (see edit history)

[Ronnie]

OK, Since I had nothing better to do I decided to see how the numbers for the sales of the 1987 MB 560SL convertibles and 1990 Reatta convertibles would stack up. Here is what I found.

According to NADA, the largest record keeper of car sales in the US, the MSRP for the 1987 MB 560SL was $55,300. The price they list for the current Average Retail sale of the SL is $11,650. That means the SL is currently selling for an average of 21% of it's MSRP.

NADA shows the MSRP for the 1990 Reatta convertible (first year for Reatta convertible) was $34,995. The price they list for an Average Retail sale for the Reatta is $6650. That means the Reatta is currently selling for an average of 19% of it's MSRP.

Considering we are comparing the highly esteemed Mercedes Benz, luxury convertible of the stars, to a Buick convertible, I think the numbers above show that the Reatta convertible is holding it's value pretty darn good when compared to the MB convertible. I realize there could be arguments for and against this but I just wanted to throw out some real world numbers for discussion.

[padgett]

Don't know, don't really care, have the ones I want and hopefully "enough" spares. Could get into either and head out tomorrow: right at Wildwood, left at Lake City, and on to La-La town. Could do the same with the Judge just a bit more expensive for gas and its 44. Just had the 'vert out tonight to the library, this is the weather we put up with summer for.

Don't expect the price to go up until they disappear from Craig's List.

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

Here's a challenge for you:

Name any production car available new in the late 80's early 90's that now sells routinely at or above its MSRP.

1990 Porsche Carrera 4 Cabriolet $77K now $26K

1990 Ferrari Testarossa $161K now $54K

1990 Rolls-Royce Corniche III vert $216K now $50K

1990 Cadillac Allante $57K now $7K

1990 Lexus LS400 $35K now $6K

Ronnie did the 560SL already

The only car I could come up with that even came close is:

1983 Delorean DMC-12 Gullwing $35K now $29K avg but a pristine one can fetch $45K.

So enough already about wining about the low resale value of the Reatta. Those of you who really believe that the Reatta should be selling at or above MSRP are delusional. It's not 50 years old, it's not a muscle car, and it's not an exotic car that was featured in a poster on many a kid's bedroom wall or featured in a blockbuster movie or three.

Just enjoy it for what it is, the best value in a 2 seat personal luxury car in the world today if your willing to shop wisely and put some effort into it.

[KDirk]

Well, that certainly lends some perspective. Allante worth 1/8 of its new cost. I think we have it pretty good by comparison. The single standout in mc's list is the Delorean. It is a movie icon (Back to the Future) and has THOSE doors. Nuff said.

And for the record, I am not clamoring for major appreciation in value on Reattae.

KDirk

[Machiner 55]

Just enjoy it for what it is, the best value in a 2 seat personal luxury car in the world today if your willing to shop wisely and put some effort into it.

And for the record, I am not clamoring for major appreciation in value on Reattae.

This is where I fall on the spectrum.

I'd really like to have a fine specimen of each model year with one being a vert.

Only then would I care to have the values skyrocket. (just kidding... maybe)

John F.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Machiner 55 (see edit history)

[Guest Kitskaboodle]

Hmmm, wonder how the Grand National compares to the others on the list . Also, how about the turbo Supra?

[Guest my3buicks]

Don't know, don't really care, have the ones I want and hopefully "enough" spares. Could get into either and head out tomorrow: right at Wildwood, left at Lake City, and on to La-La town. Could do the same with the Judge just a bit more expensive for gas and its 44. Just had the 'vert out tonight to the library, this is the weather we put up with summer for.

Don't expect the price to go up until they disappear from Craig's List.

I think you are full of beans with your constant downgrading of cars just because the are bought and sold on Craigslist. It's an intelligent place to sell a car, it's free, it gets the car searchable across the country as well. Where a car is sold says nothing to me about the cars condition, value, or desirability. I have managed to buy 2 Reatta gems on Craigslist. I think instead of where a car is sold is far less important than a buyer being intelligent about what he is buying.

Edited March 19, 2014 by my3buicks (see edit history)

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

Hmmm, wonder how the Grand National compares to the others on the list . Also, how about the turbo Supra?

1990 Toyota Supra 3 Door Liftback Turbo MSRP $25K now $6.5K

1987 Buick Regal 2 Door Coupe GNX MSRP $29K now $71K

Can you say muscle car?

[ghostymosty]

And you all know that those 'book values' have nothing to do with real world values, right? The extremely nice high dollar examples bring up the average selling value and the low craigslist (etc) values are not included by the books fact compilers. Same thing for sellers thinking their car is in much better condition than the buyer's impression. There is a 90 coupe locally for sale at a really cheap price until the miles change with each ad update and seller finally fesses that the gauges don't light up, it just hasn't been around for me to look at when I have the time so I don't know if it is really a cheap price or really a cheap car. Photos in the ad don't show much to judge condition.

[padgett]

Why do people not listen to what I say ? Didn't say CL was a bad place to buy/sell a car, is how I have bought and sold several cars including the Crossfire (suspect the SRT may be the next Grand National - at least one is in the low 12s, I just wanted a manual trans).

What I meant was don't expect prices to rise as long as Reattae are still available on CL (wouldn't expect to find a Judge there).

[Guest my3buicks]

BTW, there are Judges on Craigs, a few of them, some are still on some are deleted http://jackson.craigslist.org/cto/4298680253.html