Hot Rods In the AACA System

[Guest]

It has come to my attention all the way out here in the burning West, that the National Board of Directors will be presented with a proposal at their Board meeting this coming week in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, to accept pre-1949 'Hot Rods' into the AACA System.<P>Where did this proposal come from?<P>What group is supporting it?<P>What is a pre-1949 'Hot Rod'?<P>Does it mean a 'Rod' that was actually built before 1949 and can be proven as such, or can you just build one next week out of pre-1949 parts and call it a "pre-1949 Hot Rod," and display it at an AACA Meet?<P>Is this the Direction in which our Board feels the AACA needs to go?<P>Is this what the general membership wants or is it the desire of a special interest group within the AACA leadership?<P>Why is it just now slipping out of the closet a matter of days before a vote may be taken to implement the concept?<P>If it is passed will the supporters be willing to stand up and be counted?<P>Inquiring minds want to know?<P>This post is neither pro nor anti 'Hot Rod'. It does however question the modus operendi of some of our leadership.<P>hvs

[Bill Stoneberg]

Howard, <BR>In the Hot Rod world, 1949 is the dividing line between Hot Rods and Customs. Dont ask me why though, Thats the way it is. But a pre 1949 Hot rod can be built of of parts that we made yesterday.<P>You can take a new chassis, a small block 350 motor & 700 r4 transmission, new suspension and a 1932 Duece body (or a 34 Vickie, or a 39 Willies, or lots of other Fiberglass or repro metal bodies) and build yourself a hot rod that can be titled and registered as a YOM hot rod. Stupid isn't it.<P>I like Hot rods, I have had plenty in my life but the AACA is not the place for them. There are plenty of other clubs that are set up for that already.

[another old car]

hvs<BR>I myself and this is only my opinion that the aaca should have a class for modefied cars , only to be veiwed , Not judged <BR>I myself have seen very nice cars , but I would use the word ' modefied cars 'and not Hot Rod . Hot Rod a open fender car I might get blasted for this but have you seen the cars in events parking areas

[Ccar]

Howard,<P>There were two, maybe three, at Hershey last year in a special "display" near the stadium entrance for registered show cars. I was there watching the arrival parade when one arrived. Of course we asked what was going on and the owner told us about the petition to form a class. If I understood it correctly, his car was an "orginal" pre'49 hot rod. Not restored, but in what may be considered original or older repaint. I think it was used on the Happy Days TV show. If not his, one of them claimed to be of TV fame. The point is, they were built pre'49 and would be documented and approved by some governing group as the racers are now. Was also told they are currently AACA members and have been showing antique vehicles for many years. <P>Do they belong, can't really comment on them. I'm sure there is a following as with the racing vehicles. I don't pay much attention to them either. If I had a vote, particularly at Hershey, I would say include the driven class and eliminate the hot rods, and other racers if space is a factor as it was last year. Just my thoughts. <P>Chuck

[D Binger]

Hot Rods in AACA? That would bring some up <BR>questions that will need some very good answers.<P>Does this mean that a Hot Rod made out of a<BR>Model T body with a flat head V-8 in it be eligible for <BR>an AACA National Meet and the same trophies <BR>that the person who restored a vehicle? Wouldn’t <BR>that be a slap in the face , so to speak , to the person <BR>who restored a vehicle?<P>Will there be a special committee to certify <BR>these cars as to the authenticity of all the parts <BR>used, and that this vehicle was indeed a hot rod <BR>before 1949 and not just put together from parts,<BR>like the race vehicle have to go through now?<BR>What kind of judging standards will be used?<BR>After all, it is said that AACA has the best judging <BR>system in the world for antique motor vehicles.<P>Will they be allowed to participate on tours? <BR>Can you see a 1932 Ford Roadster with a <BR>flathead and no fenders on a Sentimental Tour, <BR>or a 40 Ford with flames and big tires on a <BR>Founders tour?<P>Is this the latest in the “We need younger members” <BR>effort? I hope that the board members that will be voting <BR>on this take a long hard look at what this might turn <BR>into. They need to remember what the first A in AACA <BR>stands for. Will we loose creditability in the antique <BR>auto hobby?<P>Isn’t there a national club for Hot Rods already?<P>Dan Binger

[1937hd45]

I don't know how the proposal is worded, but would vote YES! This new class is going to be of "DOCUMENTED HOT RODS" just like the Race Vehicles. You will have to prove the car you have is in fact that car not a look a like replica. Use in a movie, TV show, Hot Rod Magazine feature are things that the commettie will be looking for. Jerry Duncan who filmed the AACA Hershey vedio for years owns the "Happy Days" car, and is one of the AACA members interested in this new class. I don't know if it is planed to be a display only or judged class. A Hot Rod is a pre 1949 vehicle, but I don't know what year of the buildup should be the cutoff date. For example: any Hot Rod that won the National Roadster Show should be in this new class. The show started in 1949, should cars up to 1960 be admitted or should 1965 be the cutoff date? There aren't that many original (as they looked in the year of the buildup)Hot Rods out there. Just like trucks, motorcycles, and race vehicles, they are a unique part of our automotive history, and should be on the show field.

[Guest]

Now the AACA can really have some 'Big' Meets. Instead of 1,500 or 2,000 cars at Hershey maybe there can be 8,000 or 10,000. Even better, perhaps now we can have beer, 'wet T shirt' contest, and that loud 50's music on the PA system. That's just the direction the clubs need to go, don't you think?

[1937hd45]

As I said in my first post, this will be for "DOCUMENTED" Hot Rods, I doubt that the class would ever have more that 25 cars at any meet encluding Hershey.

[1913Moline]

I used to think that Hershey was a big car show until I started to drive to the "Back to the 50's Show" here in Minneapolis. This weekend I drove my "stock" 1929 Pierce as well as 1914 KisselKar down to the show. I was car number 10,085 registered!!! They have over 10,500 pre 1964 cars on display. It is absolutely incredible.<P>I am not a street rod collector nor do I want to start the debate on whether modifying these cars is "right". I find this event is an incredible place to show my kids a wide variety of 20's to 60's body styles. The cars come driving in from every direction- I would guess that way less than 1% come in trailers.<P>Greg

[Guest SalG (Sal Grenci)]

Forget about Hot Rods. What about Howard's proposal for national director reform, it has been blocked for over a year.

[Guest]

It is my understanding that this proposal is for DISPLAY only.

[rocketraider]

We are automotive historians. Our objective is to restore and refurbish vehicles to their original state. <P>We can do this with a documented early oldschool hotrod, but the trouble there is- where do we find documentation on such a vehicle? Year built, equipment of the era, etc? Nobody ever thought about a future restoration of one of these to its as-built state back then- they were built to go fast, reflect individual attitudes and tastes, and annoy hell out of cops and "good law-abiding citizens". And when it was wore out, trashed or crashed, big deal. Go make another one. <P>The oldschool movement died off in the mid-60s, about time musclecars appeared. If this goes thru (and it probably will), my thought is a cutoff of 1965 or so. No modern drivetrains/suspensions/brakes, no fiberglass bodies (cycle fenders, decklids etc OK becuase they were making that stuff way back when), no hightech gadgets or airconditioning, yadda, yadda- <P>Look, folks, I like hotrods and think there may be a place for them in our ranks, but how are we going to police this? A can of worms for sure...

[Guest]

My name is Jerry Duncan and I am the Chairman of the Historic Hot Rod Committee. This Committee was formed at the request of a past President. I will be happy to provide a copy of the letter that was sent to the AACA explaining this class and the definition of a "Historic Hot Rod". I believe that the Antique Automobile Club of America is given the responsibility to acknowledge and preserve the history of the Automobile and it's development through the years. This duty of preservation is not just for the cars that are fashionable, trendy, classy or popular, it is for all of automotive history. As historians, you cannot overlook the contribution that hot rodding has made to the development of the Automobile. Not only from the experimental point of view of taking parts and technology and adapting that to a chassis and body but testing it at places like Muroc, El Mirage and Bonneville and then sharing that information both good and bad with anyone who had an interest. Many of the finest engineers, designers and industry giants got their start and much of there knowledge at a very early age hot rodding. If you can't see that a Model T Speedster or a Duesenburg Racer is nothing more that a production car that has been hot rodded, then my faith in you as historians is misplaced. By the way, both Henry Ford and the Duesenburg Brothers were hot rodders / racers and were so passionate that they shared their vision with the world. I thank you for the opportunity to bring this issue to the board and welcome any discussion.

[Guest]

I thought I would save time and post the original letter outlining this class and the definiation.<P>February 2, 2000<P>A.A.C.A. <BR>Mr. Bill Smith<P>This letter will introduce the definition of The Historic Hot Rod Class as requested by the current President of the A.A.C.A. This definition was constructed by a group of dedicated car enthusiasts who are interested in the significance of early Historic Hot Rods. They formed a committee made up of Lynn Paxton, Bruce Larsen, Jack Kendall and Jerry Duncan meeting four times over a period of months to create this class structure. The definition of this class is as follows:<P>The AACA Historic Hot Rod Class is open to vintage Hot Rods that were reconstructed from an automobile originally manufactured prior to 1949. In order to qualify for this category a vehicle must retain a preponderance of the major components that were utilized during its reconstruction. Documentation will be required to establish that the vehicle was originally modified at least 25 years prior to the date of application to compete in this category. The vehicle must appear as it did during the period of time for which you are documenting and requesting AACA certification. Certification forms will be the same as class 24A with some slight modifications.<P>The Certification Committee will be responsible for determining if a vehicle qualifies for this class. The certification committee will make a recommendation to the Vice President of class judging as to its authenticity. The final decision remains with the AACA . <P>It is our hope to expand the interest in the antique car hobby and bring new members and support to the A.A.C.A. With the addition and acceptance of Historic Hot Rods at Pebble Beach, many people are now looking to the A.A.C.A. for continued direction and leadership regarding this new proposed class.<P>We respectfully await your response to this new proposal.<BR>Sincerely<P>Jerry Duncan<BR>Chairman-Historic Hot Rod Committee

[Guest]

If the AACA General Policy for judging is " to evaluate an antique vehicle which has been restored to the same state as when the dealer received the vehicle from the factory"<BR>Obviously a modified vehicle ever reach this 'goal'.<BR>It seems an insult to many 'purists' who will be asked to 'share' the Show field with these 'Hot Rods'. Are we, as a club, giving up our 60 plus years being a club dedicated to preserving authentic automobile history <BR>For years National has requested that Regions not allow 'modified vehicles' at our local Region Shows. Now they want to have them at National Meets. <BR>Is this just a way to get more cars at National Meets (more money) I have to wonder where the motivation for this drastic change in policy is coming from. <BR>How about some input from the National Board on this subject? We all know you are reading this 'thread'. How about some answers <BR>How many old members will we lose to gain these new ones?

[1937hd45]

Jerry, Thank you for the two above posts. If the Historic Hot Rod class is accepted it will be a nice addition to class 24 A,B,&C. I don't think most members know how rare the race cars & motorcycles are that have to pass "Race Vehicle Certification". The Hot Rods will be even tougher to get certified. Now just for fun lets run some numbers: EVERY 25 year old Volkswagen Bug can be registered and show up at an AACA meet,EVERY 25 year old Mustang,EVERY Corvair,EVERY Corvette, along with EVERY Model T and A Ford etc. Please let me know if you have seen more than 50 of any of the above in their assigned class at an AACA National meet. The acceptance of Historic Hot Rods is not going to end AACA, it will enhance it.<p>[ 06-23-2002: Message edited by: 1937hd45 ]

[JohnMyer]

Mr. HVS<P>As a National Director, I can only say that your thread of June 22 is the first that I have heard anything about a display of "hot rods" at National Meets. I for one would want to take a long, long look at this proposal before I would agree to this proposal.<P>Perhaps it is something for the National Board to consider, but I have heard no one 'clamor' to have even a display of this type of vehicle at National Meets. This forum will provide a good opportunity to hear from AACA members and non-members about the topic.<P>I leave on Tuesday for the next National Board Meeting. I can only assume that a report will be presented at the next Board Meeting.

[Guest]

I am very glad to read the response from John Myer. Even though I personally have no problem with "hot rods" or their owners, I do think that the AACA should retain their present requirements for vehicles being entered in their shows and to be very careful about adding additional classes with the exception of the needed twenty-five year-old requirement. It appears to me that younger people are attending National Meets and are showing interest into continuing the hobby. We have to trust our National Directors to listen to our wishes and what has worked for many years and have to trust the younger generation to show interest and take care of our original vehicles. Let's also hope that a vote is not taken at this meeting that will upset the present members.

[Guest]

After having several meetings with Jerry Duncan, Chairman-Historic Hot Rod Committee, I am convinced they deserve a place on our showfields. Everyone seems to have a misconception as to what these cars are. They are not just any hot rod. The owner has to provide documentation for determining if the vehicle qualifies for this class (newspaper or magazine articles, etc.). We teach in judges training that if we have a question about the authenticity of a vehicle, we should ask for documentation. These cars are a historical part of the automotive industry in our country and should be allowed to be displayed on our show field. There are not going to be that many of these cars show up at a national meet. If we get more than three at a national meet this will be a lot. The thing to remember is they are HISTORICAL HOT RODS not STREET RODS

[Jim Bollman]

Several have already talked about the race car classes. I have long thought that a vintage street rod class would be no different than the race car class. They would have to be certified as being build more than 25 years ago and of the proper parts as dictated by the class. Is a street rod built in the 50s or a George Barris Custom Rod less historical than a race car built for some local track?<P>A race car isn't as deliverd to the dealer either and we have a place for them.<P>Jim...

[Rick Hoover]

I first heard for this proposal almost two years ago and I don't like the idea any more now than I did then. As Bill Stoneberg stated on here, "the AACA is not the place for them". Should this voting by our board to accept these "Hot Rods" get approved, I see it merely as a opening of the door for other rods and customs to enter later. <P> I find it troublesome to learn here that a past AACA President and current board member is just now learning of this concept. What was the reasoning by some of our leaders to keep this so quiet all this time? What I find to be even more troblesome, should this proposal pass, is that the general membership not been given the chance to voice their opinion and vote on such a critical change within our club.<P> I have both owned and built hot rods and customs years ago. I also belonged to these clubs and attended many of their functions before becoming a member of the AACA. At times, I still attend hot rod shows as I appriciate some of the workmanship put into these cars. Others I find simply as pure butchery. So, it is not a matter of my total disliking of these vehicles, I just don't feel the need nor can I accept their presence on a AACA show field. <P> I also, was standing there when these Hot Rods showed up at last years Hershey Fall Meet. As stated earlier on here, there were two or three that came. All I remember is the one owner throwing a temper tantrum out loud in front of a hundred spectators, with our Chairman of Antique Vehicle Parking over his displeasure of being parked outside of the show vehicle judging area. He was told by our now Vice President and felt also that he and his friends should be parked in the the show field area as a "Special Display" as to be a center of attention during the meet. Was that an example of what we can expect to see from these vehicles owners?<P> I wish someone can explain to me why these hot rod owners feel the need to be part of a club that is based on originality. Surely, there are other fine organizations they can be a part of.<BR> <BR> No, I don't like this idea one bit!<P> Rick<p>[ 06-23-2002: Message edited by: Rick Hoover ]

[Guest 40LUV]

If I rememer correctly, the Racer Brown '32 Ford was on the Hershey show field in 1997 with the race cars. It looked alot more like a hot rod than a "race only" vehicle. I like seeing both hot rods and restored cars... I like seeing the rods at York and the stock ones at Hershey. Hopefully it will stay that way.

[Guest]

I had intended to raise the Hot Rod issue and nothing more. It was my intention to then retire from the thread and let the members carry on the discussion as Jerry Duncan and others have done both pro and con.<P>And quite well and in a civilized manner, I might add. That appears to be going according to plan.<P>However, I must come back and address an issue raised by SalG. At NO time have I ever brought up a proposal for National Director reform. I have never considered such a thing. My proposal of the past 2 years has been <B>BALLOT REFORM</B>. Don't put words in my mouth, Sal.<P>I introduced and supported from the beginning, a proposal to change the ballot requirement from vote for exactly 7 Directors to vote for no fewer then 5 and not more than 7 Directors. That will be voted on this week at the Board meeting in Iowa. <P>This has NOTHING to do with National Director reform. If you have a problem with the Board, that is not my problem or concern. Don't muddy my waters.<P>These are two distinctly separate issues and should not be linked. Now lets not have any more of that on this thread, PLEASE!<P>hvs

[Guest]

Mrs. HVS just pointed out that possibly one of the major reforms of the National Board was when I retired.

[Guest]

I would like to respond to the comments made by Rick Hoover. I was the person who in his words "thew a temper tantrum" and I admit I did get frustrated when we were invited by Senior Officials of the A A C A to provide a display of cars purposed for this class. I say again INVITED! We were also told that we would be placed beside the Race Cars Class 24 which was the proper place in my opinion. Upon arrival we were put outside the showfield away from all of the cars and then the gentleman directing traffic started placing steel barricades in front of the cars, which would have prevented anyone from even getting close enough to see that there were cars on display at all. It was then and only then, that my temper rose a few degrees. If Mr. Hoover wants to tell that part of the story, I would appreciate him telling the Whole Story. The letter I posted, clearly outlines the definition and guidelines of this class. The Antique Automobile Club of America either represents the history of the automobile in it's entirety or it pick and chooses what parts of automotive history everyone feels "Comfortable" with. The membership will decide in the final analysis. I'm not proposing that everyone become a lover of Hot Rods, I'm simply stating that their development and part they played in the development of the automotive industry be recognized. Thank you for this forum to respond.

[ex98thdrill]

Howard,<BR> Greetings from across the big pond. Although I am writing you from southwest Asia in a country that rhymes with "plan" I couldn't let your post go ignored. I agree that a modified or street rod class is not the way to go. Even though most of our restorations are done with reproduction products as new or newer than any aftermarket street rod parts, I don't agree with that class (if it is fact and not fiction that such class may exist). A restored race car with some documented history is one thing, but not a street rod. Don't get me wrong, I'm not encouraging anyone taking a '40 Ford coupe and making it into a race car and showing it at an AACA meet. But if it were a car that actually raced (like Richard Petty's '70 Plymouth Superbird) in that era and had the documentation to prove it, I would like to see that class. I still say an authentic restoration of an antique vehicle, takes more skill to restore than to build a street rod. As much as I myself like street rods, there are no rules when it comes to building a rod. A street rod is built the way the owner and/or builder wants the car to be built. A restoration is done to the specifications that the factory used to build the car when it was new. My father has had his '37 Plymouth pickup at a lot of local car shows, and he has taken a couple best of shows, but he has also beat out a lot of street rods that had more money in chrome than he had in his whole truck because it is original. Regardless of the trend leaning towards rods, people still appreciate an authentic restoration, and an AACA badge on the front of a vehicle, also gives that specific vehicle a lot of credibility. My feeling, keep the street rods in a different circuit, keep AACA for the antiques.

[Guest]

mr duncan - you must also belong to some club where you show your hot rod. if aaca makes a class for your rod at its shows will your rod club make one for our stock restorations on your show field. <P>thanks hvs for bringing this out in the open

[Steve Moskowitz]

I was present with the 1911 at Pebble Beach in '97 when they allowed historic hot-rods on the show field for the first time. It was an incredible display and brought back memories of my Hot Rod Magazine purchases as a kid. The cars looked like they just stepped off the pages of those magazines from the 50's and 60's.<P>I can live with any decision on this topic but I certainly hope it gets thoughtful consideration. We do allow documented antique race cars and it would onnly seem logical that a class of these cars could add to the interest in AACA.<P>I am a brass guy, first and foremost, so I come from no particular prejudice for or against. The question remains, is this a way to only make AACA stronger? How many folks have joined AACA with a 50's car and then fallen in love with an older model due to being at shows? Documented historic hot rods COULD be a enhancement to the club...keep an open mind!

[Guest leadfoot]

I've got to agree with many of Rick Hoover's comments. I just don't think there's a need to mix hot rods with AACA vehicles.<P>But, I guess one has to put this idea of historic hot rods in perspective. If you have historic race cars, why not documented, historic hot rods - built 25 years or more ago, with components available at that time.<P>One fact that has added some credibility for me is that Lynn Paxton was involved on this historic hot rod committee. Lynn is associated with the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing and has helped make that into a first class operation. He is an excellent automotive racing historian.<P>As just an ordinary AACA member, I would hope that the Director's put a change like this up to the members for some sort of vote or approval. Hot rods in the AACA truly could be a "nose under the tent" situation, that might not be best for this organization.

[Guest]

I am sorry but being a member of AACA for a numeb of years (almost 20) and owning a couple of AACA Senior cars, I am totally opposed to any type of "hot rod" at a National Meet. My main reason is that while there is significance to a Pre-49 documented "hot rod" - what will keep this form opening Pandora's box and having those who enter but are not documentable (if that is a word)? I feel like AACA has survived this many years without it so why change. Change can be good but sometiems it can be bad.<P>just my 2 cent worth !!

[Dave@Moon]

Rick, you've posted the following comments on this thread:<P><I>"I wish someone can explain to me why these hot rod owners feel the need to be part of a club that is based on originality. Surely, there are other fine organizations they can be a part of.<P>"I appriciate some of the workmanship put into these cars. Others I find simply as pure butchery. So, it is not a matter of my total disliking of these vehicles, I just don't feel the need nor can I accept their presence on a AACA show field." </I><P>I'm very glad that Oldscarnut mentioned the display at Pebble Beach, because it goes toward answering your questions.<P>By far my experience with "hot rod shows" has been on the local level. Modified cars are not my cup of tea, but they've pretty-well swamped the old car hobby at this point and avoiding them is near impossible. <P>At <I>those</I> events (i.e. cruises, regional charity shows, magazine/supplier sponsored events, etc.) the cars that Jerry is proposing be accepted into this new class are virtually ignored. Most "hot-rodders" of the amateur class seem to be focused on the newest and shinyest offerings, be they the complete creations of their owners or some of the various components available to them for their own projects. I vividly recall being the only person around in a HUGE crowd at a 4000+ car show who knew what the Ardun heads were on a certain '48 Mercury. (The owner was greatly pleased that <I>somebody</I> knew what he had!) Things of "Historic" value rarely enter into the mindset of many who attend these show.<P>I hope it is cars like that '48 Merc that this class is intended. I have a friend back in Pittsburgh who has a '57 Cameo that he modified in the mid-'60's with a nailhead drivetrain and acres of the latest sparkle vinyl! It is only sentimentality that keeps him from finding some crate engine, a few cans of pearlized paint, and some neon tubing to "update" that rod, because I can tell you that NO ONE gives this worthy, well-documented rod a second look when he brings it out to a show.<P>If the AACA can provide a venue to acknowledge and honor some of these vehicles on a wider and more regular basis than just the Pebble Beach show, maybe it can help preserve even more of our automotive legacy.

[Al Smeraldo]

I was on a week long tour once and I followed a "T" speedster one day. It was fun watching his wheels wobble. This was on an AACA regional tour. As far as this proposal I think that hot rodding is indeed part of our automotive history. If this is done in the manner proposed I have no objection to it. However if we were to see burn outs upon leaving the show field I would object. Al

[Steve Moskowitz]

Been doing some thinking about this subject (i know that's dangerous) and I am getting warmer to this idea. The name Antique AUTOMOBILE Club of America says it all. These old hot rods are a part of the fabric of our heritage. Some ideas that went into production cars came out of the hot rod culture. I certainly do not think that today's current hot rod owners have any interest at all in being around an AACA event, but the guys that have a preserved/restored rod from the past in many cases do get lost in today's high-buck rod meets. We have motorcycles, Whizzers,<BR> Crosley's, race cars etc. that we now include. How cool would it be to have one more part of our automotive heritage on display! <P>At Pebble, the rods were all from the 50's and looked right at home with all the other cars on display. That year they honored Olds but also had micro-cars, steam cars, race cars, etc. It was really neat to see the evolution of not only our automotive history but also what American society did with these creations. This does not have to be a bad thing! If the documentation formula is used SIMILAR to race cars and there is a cut-off year this could be pretty exciting!<p>[ 06-24-2002: Message edited by: oldscarnut ]

[Guest]

Oldscarnut, was the James Dean '49-'50 Mercury from "Rebel Without a Cause" at the Pebble Beach event? Natalie Wood stole my heart in that movie.....saw it 4-5 times....the only movie I ever watched more than once. Hate to admit now I can't remember if it was a '49 or a '50. Anybody know?

[Guest]

i've got two cents to put in. to quote the aaca judging manual"the aaca was founded in 1935 by a small group of people with a common interest,the love of old cars." isn't this what it's all about? if i understood the description right they're just not any old street rod.they have to be recognized as significant, magizine articles, popular builder, etc. the tony nancy 22jr.roadster, that shows at hershey as a race car, started as a modified street car, if memory serves me. to stand beside this car or the pierson bros. coupe, the kookie car from 77 sunset strip or the hirohita mercury is history just like someone's 26 nash. how are these cars differant from the saoutchik 48 cadillac. that's the purple one at the blackhawk exibit with seat caning glued to the sides. it's beautiful but the general didn't build it like that. but yet to quote the auction catelog"among its many honors are first place awards at aaca and ccca events and the pebble beach concours d'elegance."<p>[ 06-24-2002: Message edited by: nearchocolatetown ]

[Guest]

oldscarnut, i've got to ask. did you get your name from your love of oldsmobiles or a bad vasectomy? sorry.

[Guest]

Properly pedigreed historic Hot Rods are an important part of our rich automotive history in America. I didnt notice the outcry when Race cars received a class designation, nor did it lead to the end of AACA. <BR>If we are in fact interested in preserving the automotive heritage of our country, we must not overlook those parts of it that we might try to wish away. Pebble Beach has done an excellent job of incorporating Historic Hot Rods into their concours de'legance, why can't AACA take a mature approach as well. We don't have a problem with custom built bodies like Ford Brewsters etc. Even the grand old man of GM, Harley Earl made his name on building and drawing customized vehicles prior to hiring on at GM. We revere him.<P> Also, Taking pot shots at the Youth program while discussing this topic is not productive but infantile. Its no laughing matter that until I turned 41, I was considered a youth member of AACA. If we lose our ability to maintain open minds, and evolve, our closemindedness wil leave our cars with no stewards in the future. Is that what we want?<BR> A well thought out plan to institue a Historic Hot Rod Class will only serve to enrich our preservation of history. We may not all have one or like them, but heck I don't like Corvairs either, though lots of people do. Does that mean I should lobby to have them excommunicated from AACA? <BR>If some people had their way years ago, we wouldn't have anything at our shows but Touring cars and Model Ts. Thankfully some took a more moderate view, creating the AACA we enjoy today.

[Dave@Moon]

As to not wanting to mix the displays of authentic antiques and modified cars, I have just one response to that. It should be obvious!<P>This group is made up of individuals who appreciate our automotive heritage and prefer to be patrons to the most authentic versions of that heritage that have been preserved of reclaimed (myself included). We do this out of our own aesthetics and character. <P>Those aesthetics and chartacter traits we have will, if anything, only be reinforced by the presence of alternatives at the venues we attend.<P>What's more, those aesthetics and character traits are based on a perspective that says authentic cars in general present a preferable display and image than modified cars as a group. <B>Wouldn't that perspective more be reinforced than eroded by the prospect of side-by-side comparison?</B>

[Dave@Moon]

Finally, one last suggestion:<P>As for touring, <B>PLEASE</B> institute a general policy of making the fenderless cars ride in the BACK of any tour group. I wouldn't want to spend any significant amount of time following a fenderless '32 highboy's gravel spray around the countryside!

[Steve Moskowitz]

To answer your question about my "moniker"...I was OLDScarnut when I started in this hobby but now I am just oldSCARnut! Some of these posts have also led to the problem! <P>I can not specificaaly remember the cars at Pebble but they were typical Ford based rods, no customs. I think the Little Duece Coupe was there and a couple of T-based rods.