Guest Plymouth Driver Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 My 1940 P10 DeLuxe is using the entire contents of the engine in a 250 mile run. the engine is run in and has only done 56000m. The car has been standing for a number of years so I wonder if it just needs further running. There are no obvious leaks and no blue tail smoke. Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrspeedyt Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 (edited) try a quart of marvel mystery oil or atf added to the regular oil...sounds like stuck rings maybe. or maybe a gasket has failed somewhere...my '68 chevy had a oil use of 1 quart every 50 miles because of a 1 inch portion of the intake manifold/block gasket was missing... Edited May 20, 2013 by mrspeedyt gasket (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Check to see if the draft tube or oil cap vent are blocked. The draft tube is on the lower right rear corner of the block.You may also want to post on the forum at p15-d24.com, which specializes in Flathead Six Mopars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlLaFong Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Something isn't right. No leaks and no smoke, yet you loose 5-6 quarts of oil in 250 miles. It should smoke like a tire fire or leave a huge oil spot when parked. Maybe it leaks under pressure??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
28 Chrysler Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 I kind of agree with the pressure leak.Try running the motor at a higher R P M (1000/ 1200) while parked and look for the oil.A quart every 25 miles should be easy to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hchris Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 My 1940 P10 DeLuxe is using the entire contents of the engine in a 250 mile run. the engine is run in and has only done 56000m. The car has been standing for a number of years so I wonder if it just needs further running. There are no obvious leaks and no blue tail smoke. Any suggestions?Have you looked at the spark plugs ? I imagine that if the engine is actually consuming that amount of oil internally, then the plugs will be well carboned up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bofusmosby Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 I would suspect the rear rope seal leaking only under pressure. If the car has been sitting a long time, I would think of this being your problem, rather than the rings. Like it was already said, your car would be blowing a ton of smike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlLaFong Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 There's no oil pressure at the rope seal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hchris Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Originally Posted by bofusmosby I would suspect the rear rope seal leaking only under pressure. If the car has been sitting a long time, I would think of this being your problem, rather than the rings. Like it was already said, your car would be blowing a ton of smike.Well I`m thinking that if its leaking externally at that rate on a 250 mile run there should be oil everywhere under the car, and if it stands for a while I would expect to see a big puddle underneath. So as there no mention of visible leaks where else could it go ??<!-- google_ad_section_end --> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlLaFong Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Well I`m thinking that if its leaking externally at that rate on a 250 mile run there should be oil everywhere under the car, and if it stands for a while I would expect to see a big puddle underneath. So as there no mention of visible leaks where else could it go ??<!-- google_ad_section_end -->It's leaking or it's burning. Those are your choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest prs519 Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 or transferring is also possible .... and very improbable! check your transmission for overfilling or black oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bofusmosby Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 There's no oil pressure at the rope sealOn my 37 Pontiac, the rear oil seal leaks, but nothing as bad as this. This seal only leaks when the car has been running a bit. Now, I didn't mean the actual oil pressure, but once thing get heated up, mine leaks. However, when the car is just idling or sitting, in most cases, maybe a drop or 2 below it on the garage floor.If the amount of oil is being lost as has been stated, and the car is blowing no smoke, then where else can it be? It HAS to be leaking somewhere, and quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlLaFong Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 or transferring is also possible .... and very improbable! check your transmission for overfilling or black oil.Nope. There is no way engine oil can find it's way to the trans in an old Plymouth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Henderson Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 While in the drivers seat it isn't always easy to tell if a car smokes or not, as the tail pipe is down low, and the smoke can clear rather quickly. Try having someone follow you to observe if anything is coming out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 Nope. There is no way engine oil can find it's way to the trans in an old PlymouthThe exception (not applicable here) is that '53 and '54 Plymouths had an optional Hy-Drive transmission that is connected to the engine oiling system and uses motor oil. Ten quarts of oil were needed for every oil change! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 If your engine is burning oil the tailpipe will be coated with black oil and grease inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Plymouth Driver Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Thanks to all you guys. I appreciate your expertise.Since I posted there have been further developments. Now the car IS laying down a serious smoke trail! It's into the workshop next week for a strip down, then we'll see what's what.Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Ditto on checking the crankcase venting system. If it's plugged or otherwise inoperable, pressure will build in the crankcase and force oil past seals. If rings are badly worn or stuck, pressure buildup could blow it by the rings and into combustion chamber.Based on your desciption of blue smoke out the tailpipe right now I'm leaning toward either stuck or cracked rings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Harmatuk Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Some one is playing a prank on you.It might be like what we did to a friend of mine that was always bragging about how good on gas his car was in 1973.We or one of us would slip out to the parking lot every afternoon and top his tank off with gas we stole from the company gas pump.After about a week or two the guy almost lost his mind.His car was NOT using any gas and every time he got in it it was full.Bill H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curti Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Some one is playing a prank on you.It might be like what we did to a friend of mine that was always bragging about how good on gas his car was in 1973.We or one of us would slip out to the parking lot every afternoon and top his tank off with gas we stole from the company gas pump.After about a week or two the guy almost lost his mind.His car was NOT using any gas and every time he got in it it was full.Bill H A friend of mine did this exact thing to his wife when they bought a new car for her daily driver. Each night, when she was occupied with other activities, he would sneak out and top off the tank. Finally after a week or so she brought it up at the dinner table about the superb mileage, she became quite indignant when he refuted her statements. He laughed so hard he wet his pants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlLaFong Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 ^^^^I wish I had a dollar for each time I've heard that old chestnut^^^^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan at larescorp Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Have you checked to see if your oil is going into your cooling system? It could be that when the oil pressure is up it is leaking between the oil galley and the water jacket on your head. I could be way off, but it is a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlLaFong Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 ^^^^^He says it's smoking so, chances are, it needs rings, at the very least.I remember, when I was a kid in high school, we could buy these old MoPars all day long for 25 bucks. First, because nobody wanted them. Fords and Chevys were cool, MoPars were dorky (back then, to an 18 year old). Second reason was, they usually smoked like a Pittsburg steel mill. A case of 10 cent a quart Raylube oil, in the trunk, was standard equipment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ply33 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Have you checked to see if your oil is going into your cooling system? It could be that when the oil pressure is up it is leaking between the oil galley and the water jacket on your head. I could be way off, but it is a thought.No oil passages in the head of a L-6 Plymouth engine. If there is a leak between the water jacket and the oil passages then it would be in the block and that is is some serious damage. The 201 cu.in. blocks used from '35 through '41 are not too hard to come by, so that type of damage would probably result in replacement of the engine rather than repair.Plymouth Owners Club will check that the engineering code on the engine matches the car but I'm guessing that most AACA judges wouldn't know what engine is correct for what car since they all look the same other than the code. If you aren't into judging, then any '33 through '59 L-6 engine should pretty much bolt in. Some of the ones from the '50s you might need to worry about fan belt width and flywheel ring gear tooth count, but those most of issues can be dealt with by using parts off the original engine.My vote based on what I've read in this thread is for worn or broken rings and probably worn valve guides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan at larescorp Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 ^^^^^He says it's smoking so, chances are, it needs rings, at the very least.I remember, when I was a kid in high school, we could buy these old MoPars all day long for 25 bucks. First, because nobody wanted them. Fords and Chevys were cool, MoPars were dorky (back then, to an 18 year old). Second reason was, they usually smoked like a Pittsburg steel mill. A case of 10 cent a quart Raylube oil, in the trunk, was standard equipmentI thought he said no blue smoke. I must have missed it.Version:0.9StartHTML:-1EndHTML:-1StartFragment:0000000111EndFragment:0000004388<!--StartFragment--><title data-cke-title="Rich text editor, vB_Editor_QR_editor, press ALT 0 for help.">Rich text editor, vB_Editor_QR_editor, press ALT 0 for help.</title><base href="http://forums.aaca.org/" data-cke-temp="1"><link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="http://forums.aaca.org/clientscript/vbulletin_css/style00006l/editor_contents.css"><style type="text/css" data-cke-temp="1">form{border: 1px dotted #FF0000;padding: 2px;}img.cke_hidden{background-image: url(http://forums.aaca.org/clientscript/ckeditor/plugins/forms/images/hiddenfield.gif?t=B8DJ5M3);background-position: center center;background-repeat: no-repeat;border: 1px solid #a9a9a9;width: 16px !important;height: 16px !important;}img.cke_iframe{background-image: url(http://forums.aaca.org/clientscript/ckeditor/plugins/iframe/images/placeholder.png?t=B8DJ5M3);background-position: center center;background-repeat: no-repeat;border: 1px solid #a9a9a9;width: 80px;height: 80px;}html.CSS1Compat [contenteditable=false]{ min-height:0 !important;}html.CSS1Compat abbr[contenteditable=false],html.CSS1Compat acronym[contenteditable=false],html.CSS1Compat address[contenteditable=false],html.CSS1Compat b[contenteditable=false],html.CSS1Compat bdo[contenteditable=false],html.CSS1Compat big[contenteditable=false],html.CSS1Compat cite[contenteditable=false],html.CSS1Compat code[contenteditable=false],html.CSS1Compat del[contenteditable=false],html.CSS1Compat dfn[contenteditable=false],html.CSS1Compat em[contenteditable=false],html.CSS1Compat font[contenteditable=false],html.CSS1Compat i[contenteditable=false],html.CSS1Compat ins[contenteditable=false],html.CSS1Compat label[contenteditable=false],html.CSS1Compat kbd[contenteditable=false],html.CSS1Compat q[contenteditable=false],html.CSS1Compat s[contenteditable=false],html.CSS1Compat samp[contenteditable=false],html.CSS1Compat small[contenteditable=false],html.CSS1Compat span[contenteditable=false],html.CSS1Compat strike[contenteditable=false],html.CSS1Compat strong[contenteditable=false],html.CSS1Compat sub[contenteditable=false],html.CSS1Compat sup[contenteditable=false],html.CSS1Compat tt[contenteditable=false],html.CSS1Compat u[contenteditable=false],html.CSS1Compat var[contenteditable=false],html.CSS1Compat mark[contenteditable=false]{ display:inline-block;}html { _overflow-y: scroll; cursor: text; *cursor:auto;}img, input, textarea { cursor: default;}a.cke_anchor,a.cke_anchor_empty,a[name],a[data-cke-saved-name]{background:url(http://forums.aaca.org/clientscript/ckeditor/plugins/vblink/images/anchor.gif?t=B8DJ5M3) no-repeat left center;border:1px dotted #00f;padding-left:18px;cursor:auto;}a.cke_anchor_empty{display:inline-block;}img.cke_anchor{background:url(http://forums.aaca.org/clientscript/ckeditor/plugins/vblink/images/anchor.gif?t=B8DJ5M3) no-repeat left center;border:1px dotted #00f;width:16px;min-height:15px;height:1.15em;vertical-align:text-bottom;}</style><!--StartFragment-->No oil passages in the head of a L-6 Plymouth engine. If there is a leak between the water jacket and the oil passages then it would be in the block and that is is some serious damage. The 201 cu.in. blocks used from '35 through '41 are not too hard to come by, so that type of damage would probably result in replacement of the engine rather than repair. Plymouth Owners Club will check that the engineering code on the engine matches the car but I'm guessing that most AACA judges wouldn't know what engine is correct for what car since they all look the same other than the code. If you aren't into judging, then any '33 through '59 L-6 engine should pretty much bolt in. Some of the ones from the '50s you might need to worry about fan belt width and flywheel ring gear tooth count, but those most of issues can be dealt with by using parts off the original engine.My vote based on what I've read in this thread is for worn or broken rings and probably worn valve guides.<!--EndFragment--><!--EndFragment-->I wasn't sure if there were passages in the head or not. Checking the coolant was the first thing that pops into my head when loosing oil with no outside trace.Thanks for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cben09 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 These old engines will burn a suprising amount of oil and not smoke much,,From a week memory,,,,,,,qt in 75--125 miles is where it starts to get visable[[and choke the passengers in car behind]]Thick gray soot on the plugs,,,but NOT wet or fowled Down around qt/35 mi,,,it gets bad,,,then cyl taper will be around ,,012"and ring gap huge,,,or broken rings,,,From sitting long time,,may also cause these symtoms,,,stuck rings,,,Good luck,,,Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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