'35 Buick 3 Window Coupe For Sale in Kansas City

[Hudsy Wudsy]

I hope that it's not inappropriate that I post this here. I came across this Craigslist ad for a mostly original coupe and thought that maybe someone on here would be interested in it before someone chops the top and puts it on an S 10 frame (ugh!).

1935 Buick 3 Window Coupe

[Pete Phillips]

That's a 40-series coupe, rare car. Very solid-looking body, but someone would need to check the condition of the wood framework before jumping in.

Pete Phillips

[Mark Shaw]

I agree with Pete, there is no such thing as "needs a little woodwork" as the descriptions states.

[Guest Rob McDonald]

"a little woodwork" is like "a little pregnant". Still, structural wood framing is an inescapable reality with Buicks, right up until what, '36 or '37? Sweet looking car, to which I'd be sorely tempted to add a rumble seat.

[Hudsy Wudsy]

I posted it here because it's the kind of car I'd love to see restored and not street rodded. It seems that more and more often I come across street rods (either finished or half finished) that the sellers describe as having had the wood replaced by metal channel or tubing, or such. My point in bringing that up is not to advocate it, but simply to point out that it's one of the many ways that original cars fall in the hands of those who don't care to keep them original. When we talk about wood in a coupe like this, we are talking about the doors and the roof, correct? Both of which are fairly complicated, I'm sure. But just out of curiosity, what are the other areas? I should ad that many years ago I headed down the road of '30s Mopar products and have had only one experience with a pre war GM car (a'36 Chev Master sedan).

[Pete Phillips]

Doors, roof, cowl, door posts, windshield pillar, floorboards, window framework all around, rear beltline, rear corners, you name it, from 1936 and back, it's got wood from the cowl and firewall back to the rear of the body.

Forgot to mention the seat framework, too--all wood!

[50jetback]

And this is what Pete described looks like - assembled!

[Guest Rob McDonald]

Wow, it's like a woodie station wagon, turned inside out. Would be a tremendous amount of work to restore, if the framing is rotten. Thanks for the eye-opener.

[Mark Shaw]

I replaced a 29 Buick windshield header board (the one that has the roll up windshield mechanism in it). With the help of a friend who had every tool know to man for woodworking in his shop, it took all day for two of us to make that one piece!

[Rooster]

Out of curiosity , anyone know what he is asking for it ?

[50jetback]

Out of curiosity , anyone know what he is asking for it ?

Ken,

Click on the link just under the photo of the car - he wants a swap!!

[Hudsy Wudsy]

"Eye opener" is right. Geez, guys, I had no idea how extensive it was. I have nothing but the highest respect for anyone who chooses to learn complicated woodworking skills in addition to his mechanical skills to restore these beautiful, but tricky bodies. Since I wrote my last post, I remembered that I once had a '36 Chev coupe for a time. I don't know how I could have forgot, some prior owner grafted a part of a hockey stick into the left door structure. If I might ask, is it a plus that this particular car I posted is a Kansas car? Or is it more a matter of how they were stored as opposed where?

[Guest BJM]

I sent him an email asking to be more specific on price, if he could. With wanting a Harley trade I think he is looking for maybe $4000 to $7000? He doesn't just want a trade, he would sell per the ad. For at least the last 3 years, there has been a 40 series sedan for sale off and on in Des Moines. It's at a business too. That car - he was asking around $3500 for and it was too much work for a 40 series sedan, but had many nice parts.

[Guest BJM]

Want to sell or cash and trade for nice Harley Davidson, Haritage Softail, or Fat Boy, or Street Glide. Would consider a nice chevy rod or model A Rod. This is a very rare car and it's never been modifide in any way, it is all original , inline 8 , 3 speed trans . I have the original tires and wheels and caps. This car was in a garage for 55 years untouched, it needs a little wood work, but over all a very solid car. Check out the pics and see for your self. I've only been able to find two others like it and both were big bucks, now I'm not trying to get top dollar on this but don't think I'm going to just give it away either........... If your serious about this car give me a call at 402 245 2564 ask for Jack and if I'm not home leave name and phone number and I'll call you back as quickly as I can , Yes, I have a clean original title. Thanks for looking and have a great day....................

[Guest Rob McDonald]

"some prior owner grafted a part of a hockey stick into the left door structure"

As a Canadian, eh?, I can't imagine better material with which to repair a structural member.

[50jetback]

I sent him an email asking to be more specific on price, if he could. With wanting a Harley trade I think he is looking for maybe $4000 to $7000? He doesn't just want a trade, he would sell per the ad. For at least the last 3 years, there has been a 40 series sedan for sale off and on in Des Moines. It's at a business too. That car - he was asking around $3500 for and it was too much work for a 40 series sedan, but had many nice parts.

If this car can be purchased for $4000 it's good value, regardless of the wood frame discussion.

I thought the Harley trades he was suggesting were in the $12000 to $15000 range ( Australian prices I guess, always hard comparing Aus/USA prices ) which made the price way too high to risk wood replacement, but $4000, very complete, nice sheet metal, rare model and a really desirable car - the nimblest/fastest in the Buick line-up for 1934 - someone needs to pick this one up!

Edited January 5, 2013 by 50jetback (see edit history)

[Hudsy Wudsy]

Rob, close! I'm a life long Minnesotan (The State of Hockey) and I presume that the coupe was, as well.

BJM, Mapquest tells me that it's 220 from Madrid to Falls City, Nebraska. Are you tempted?

[Guest BJM]

Rob, close! I'm a life long Minnesotan (The State of Hockey) and I presume that the coupe was, as well.

BJM, Mapquest tells me that it's 220 from Madrid to Falls City, Nebraska. Are you tempted?

Tempted but realistic.

Stuart,

I have no idea if I am correct on the Harley pricing. I don't dabble in motorcycles but I would think used ones in the $4000 to $8000 range would get his interest. Can't you buy new Harleys for $12,000 to $15,000?

As to value, I may not hear back from him. It's always problmeatic when sellers want an offer or a trade. It's all good for him. I suspect he was told of this car in a garage and probably bought it for pennies on the dollar. I doubt if he has $500 in it. I could be wrong but he is basically flipping it.

I love the grille and the classic 30's styling. Unlike Stuart, I am not much a fan of the 2 door coupes for touring practicality BUT my daughter would love that rumble seat!

Yea, Falls City is close and there are a lot of old cars in that area. Unfortunately, my cupboard is full and I am paying $60 a month to store 2 cars outside that need attention. It would have to be a decent price and I would have to sell 1-2 of my cars. My new rule if one is coming in one has to go out.

The problem is in about a 2 hour period from all eras I can find 5-10 cars within 500 miles that I want and could buy. A person could literally add 2-3 cars a month that would be considered "cool" collectors. Problem is, the ones you already have get neglected, so I am not so quick on the trigger as I was in 2012.

[Guest BJM]

I might add that it is nice to know these cars still exist and are tucked away in garages and barns. I figure, one of these years the inventory of unrestored cars has to dry up.

[Hudsy Wudsy]

If I may, I'll ask one last question of you guys. Is it always about rotted wood, or is it sometimes merely about injecting glue into old, dried out joints?

[Guest Rob McDonald]

HUDWUD, that's a good question because that's how creaky furniture is repaired. Even then, one must open the joint and clean out the old glue, before reglueing and securely clamping the joint. All of that's impossible to do on a car body, without removing the metal cladding.

Trouble with cars, compared to furniture, is they have have been used and stored outside for significant periods of time. I'm slightly more familiar with woodie station wagons than wood-framed prewar cars. Wagon framing rots from two sides - exposure to UV rays on the outside and prolonged exposure to moisture on the inside. Joints are especially vulnerable to dampness because open end-grain of the wood draws moisture and bacteria deep into the member. That's the rot that seems to doom the hidden framing of older cars.

Architectural restoration of wood framing in old buildings has recently relied on epoxy consolidants to strengthened rotted joints, without replacement. That works because of the massive overcapacity of historic timber members. Car frames, particularly in the 1930's, minimized the size of the wood pieces, so that I don't think they'd have much structural redundancy at all.

[60FlatTop]

I think a lot of those half finished street rods were half finished restorations at one time. It seems the first half of anything is fairly inexpensive.

There are at least 300 $100 jobs in one of these projects. Yes, I really could list them- for $100.

Bernie

[Hudsy Wudsy]

Rob, thank you for your nice concise and articulate answer. You're a credit to this community.

[Rooster]

If a car spent all it's life in a dry state and garaged when not in use, maybe, just maybe some sections could be repaired with epoxy ? But looking at this car it's a bet it will need all wood replaced. Rob gives a very good description.

Ken.

[Guest BJM]

I accessed the Gustin/Dunham book last night. I also believe I still have the Bugle where Pete did an article on the 34/35's. I'm at work, so my concise memory of production may be off but the 40 series coupe had a production of 2850 and they list a coupe S at less, I want to say 1400 production. What would the S imply? 3 seats v 5 seats? Or just a sportier trim level?

Either way, these were not produced in the numbers of the 5 passenger sedans for obvious reasons. It sounds like Buick had issues with the early 233 Straight 8 connecting rods according to the book, and other issues, but these were sorted out for 1935.

I may go look at this car if a hot rodder hasn't snatched it up. As to wood, I know a lot more now because of my ownership of the 36 Roadmaster, but will never be an expert. It still amazes me to hear folks say how hard it is to work on wood (not disagreeing) yet these companies made millions of cars - profitably - with wood framed bodies. I know those guys were craftsmen but still, one would think it would be doable without a boatload of special tools and knowledge.

[Guest Rob McDonald]

BEEJAYEM, I've come to understand that the S suffix on a Buick coupe model number denotes either of two things. For earlier cars, it means it has a rumble seat vs. a full trunk. From 1937 on, when the coupe roof got longer and quarter windows were added, it means there's a folding jump seat behind the driver and a full trunk out back. A non-S coupe has no jump seat and is generally described as a Businessman's Coupe, while an S is a Sport Coupe.

Maybe some transitional coupes got both a jump seat and a rumble seat. Maybe some trunk-back coupes don't have a pass-through between the trunk and the passenger compartment. Owners of such cars are invited to clarify these points.

Edited January 9, 2013 by Rob McDonald (see edit history)

[JoelsBuicks]

The very big deal with wood replacement is that you have to put new wood into a metal shell and not put a metal shell onto wood as was done at the factory. It would be like trying to replace the insulation in your refrigerator and wondering why it was so much more difficult than when it was being built. Another problem is that it is like building Serial Number 1b and you have to come up with patterns and assembly processes just like the engineers did many years ago for their Serial Number 1. With the right tooling, Serial numbers 2-10,000 were easy. Wood replacement is a lot like chrome plating; you need to have the right equipment and then you have to pay for the time.

[michaelod]

I had to replace about 1/3 of the wood in my 1930 Buick model 68 Victoria coupe due to rot and termite damage. I have a fully equipped woodshop in my garage and would not want to attempt this task without a full complement of tools. I was able to incorporate a liquid epoxy filler in a few areas that were fundamentally sound, but for the most part I had to replace individual wood members. For me personally the most difficult part of the task was not the reproduction of the various pieces of wood, but rather opening metal seams to gain access to a given area and then reconstructing the area once the new wood structural member was in place. The entire job took about 6 months to complete with many hours of my time invested. Actually I invested every free hour in the process, neglecting the yard-work much to the consternation of my homeowners association. Glad that task is now behind me.

Thanks,

[JohnD1956]

This car is very appealing but after reading this thread, the thought of a wood frame is downright scary. I have no experience with anything like this and while this discussion has centered on how to repair the wood frame, I was wondering if anyone had any pictures to show how the car is originally constructed? When I look at the curves in the metal I am left wondering how did they fabricate the metal skin and then attach it to the wood in the first place? Is the skin a series of small parts welded together and then applied to the wood? Or welded together after placement on the wood? Or seamed and then the seams covered by trim? And can the metal be deconstructed to get the frame bare for thorough repair?

[Hudsy Wudsy]

Bryan, the seller isn't saying that the wood is collapsing and you can tell by looking at it that it's not in the shape of that sedan in Des Moines. I know that this isn't the way a true "restore" thinks, but what if it could be put into a state where, as we Irish say, "Good enough is good enough"? If you strengthened the wood as best you can, cleaned it up a little and got it drivable you would be postponing the full restoration for someone else down the road, keeping out of the hands of someone who will ruin it, getting a little fun out of owning it and possibly making a little money a down the road a ways. I know from years of buying and selling old cars that any time a buyer can get in a car and drive it around the block it's worth 20 to 25 percent more than if he can't drive it at all. I have a friend who lives in Harris, IA near the MN border, could probably haul it for you at reasonable price. Here's a little temptation for you, though I think that the red and black makes it look like a fleet car:

[Rooster]

The obvious wood sections that fail first will be the lower sections where water and moisture collect. Most likely the wood sections that support the hinges will be loose / cracked/ dry rotted. To replace all the wood is not impossible. You just need the tools, plenty of time and patience. I spent over 3 months nearly full time replacing all the wood in my 1929 tourer. I think this model would look far nicer all one colour -- whatever that might be.

[50jetback]

This car is very appealing but after reading this thread, the thought of a wood frame is downright scary. I have no experience with anything like this and while this discussion has centered on how to repair the wood frame, I was wondering if anyone had any pictures to show how the car is originally constructed? When I look at the curves in the metal I am left wondering how did they fabricate the metal skin and then attach it to the wood in the first place? Is the skin a series of small parts welded together and then applied to the wood? Or welded together after placement on the wood? Or seamed and then the seams covered by trim? And can the metal be deconstructed to get the frame bare for thorough repair?

No welding - just NAILS, thousands of NAILS!!

[JohnD1956]

So if the thousand nails were removed on this coupe, and I'm speaking just about this coupe now, then theoretically the coupe's metal skin can be lifted off that wood frame? Curiously I have tried to look this up on the internet and either I used an incorrect inquiry or there just is nothing on how this was originally done. Now I'm doubly curious about it.

Edited January 10, 2013 by JohnD1956 (see edit history)

[50jetback]

So if the thousand nails were removed on this coupe, and I'm speaking just about this coupe now, then theoretically the coupe's metal skin can be lifted off that wood frame? Curiously I have tried to look this up on the internet and either I used an incorrect inquiry or there just is nothing on how this was originally done. Now I'm doubly curious about it.

Yes, like in the attached photos of a 1934 Buick Roadster

Edited January 10, 2013 by 50jetback (see edit history)

[Hudsy Wudsy]

Quoting Rooster: "I think this model would look far nicer all one colour -- whatever that might be." I think that is true more often than not, myself. This penchant that people have for painting the fenders black really irritates me. I have a '36 Ply coupe and I can remember reading a number of years ago that black fenders were standard on the P1 (cheap) model, but for a mere $15 more the whole car would be one color. Maybe it's that fact or simply my sense of taste that make the look unpleasant to me. I think that in some cases owners think that they are making the car a little more "Deluxe", but whether it's black fenders or some other more contrived two-toning, much of it detracts from the beautiful lines of the cars. (imho)

[JohnD1956]

Thank you Stuart! Obviously this is not a project for the uninformed... Great pictures and great job too! Of course I have to wonder if it's really not just easier to build a new tube frame to eliminate this wood alltogether. But I'm not experienced in building either, so I don't know how difficult that would be as opposed to creating the dimensional woodpieces.

[50jetback]

Here is an interesting comparison

Buick : Other 3 Window Coupe in Buick | eBay Motors

A year later, same Series ( 40 ), still a wooden frame but heaps of body damage and a fair amount of bidder interest with 5 bidders at $5,100 with 2 days to go and reserve still not met.

Still reckon if the 35 Coupe could be had for $4K it's good buying.

This is an interesting thread, can we get the moderator to move it to the PreWar Forum?

Edited January 11, 2013 by 50jetback (see edit history)

[MrEarl]

This is an interesting thread, can we get the moderator to move it to the PreWar Forum?

I'm sorry Stuart, but this moderator thinks it's in the perfect forum. Too often such For Sale ads land in the pre-war forum, thereby being somewhat clandestine to the rest of us and loosing the potential to draw a post war individual into the ranks of these wonderful pre war classics. As I am being slowly but surely drawn myself.....

[50jetback]

I'm sorry Stuart, but this moderator thinks it's in the perfect forum. Too often such For Sale ads land in the pre-war forum, thereby being somewhat clandestine to the rest of us and loosing the potential to draw a post war individual into the ranks of these wonderful pre war classics. As I am being slowly but surely drawn myself.....

We liketo keep " little Gems " like this close to the chest!!

[Guest Rob McDonald]

I do like that '36, even more than the '35. It has great streamline style and was the last of the 3-window Buicks. Although not as radical as the later Lincoln-Zephyr coupes, the '36 was certainly leading in that direction. However, this was the last year for wood body framing and I think this thread has taught us about the major challenge that bestows on a project.

I've always been a pre-war guy at heart. I used to doodle Duesenbergs in Math class, while my buddies were drawing Corvettes. I haven't taken any opportunities to express the Classic urge in my garage, though, because I've seen how difficult it is to restore and maintain the oldtimers. You either need amazing skills or deep pockets, with which neither am I blessed.