$2000 for 1959 MGA Roadster

[Guest impulsivelystupid.lol]

Packard didn't stop building a formal sedan until after 1942. You shouldn't need to modify the brakes, just get them working properly.

Oh i always heard different, good to know.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Two thoughts on the brakes - Packard did have some "assist" technologies on the Sr. cars but not the 120, if you have not driven a car with no power brakes before, the amount of foot pressure is significant, don't be shy. Second, could simply be an adjustment issue. My 120 stops pretty good relative to other antique cars I have driven, but in no way comparable to any modern car.

On custom bodies, yes, through WWII but I think very little was done on the 120 chassis outside of "professional cars" by '39. I can't recall any work from Derham on that chassis, only Rollson and those cars are truly custom - Impulsive, your 120 uses a factory bodyshell, my guess is the mods are likely closing off the rear 1/4 windows. Anything inside - like a divider between pass and driver compartments?

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Ahh, gotcha Impulsive, was posting at the same time you were.

Terry, vintage racing would be fun, but from what I understand terribly, terribly expensive!! I can only afford one relatively pricey hobby!!

[Guest impulsivelystupid.lol]

Two thoughts on the brakes - Packard did have some "assist" technologies on the Sr. cars but not the 120, if you have not driven a car with no power brakes before, the amount of foot pressure is significant, don't be shy. Second, could simply be an adjustment issue. My 120 stops pretty good relative to other antique cars I have driven, but in no way comparable to any modern car.

On custom bodies, yes, through WWII but I think very little was done on the 120 chassis outside of "professional cars" by '39. I can't recall any work from Derham on that chassis, only Rollson and those cars are truly custom - Impulsive, your 120 uses a factory bodyshell, my guess is the mods are likely closing off the rear 1/4 windows. Anything inside - like a divider between pass and driver compartments?

That is my issue, it does not break well in today's traffic, much more people on the road more reason to need to stop fast than when it was new. I believe the Breaks are fine, just might need more experience driving with Manuel breaks. Its not that easy! lol

No divider between driver and back seats no. But we discussed doing that. Yes we closed off the rear 1/4 windows. It is seamless inside and out. Most would never know we modded it. Personally i like it better this way!

[Guest impulsivelystupid.lol]

Question!

Will I have the same issue handling the roadster as i have handling the Packard sedan? I know both are Manuel breaking, but will the roadster be easier because its smaller and lighter?

[keiser31]

Question!

Will I have the same issue handling the roadster as i have handling the Packard sedan? I know both are Manuel breaking, but will the roadster be easier because its smaller and lighter?

The MGA will probably be one of the best handling cars you will ever drive of the era or earlier.

[West Peterson]

Impulse

I hate to sound anal, especially when it comes to spelling (ask my boss, I constantly tell him he's narrow minded if he can't think of more than one way to spell a word), but the only "e" in automotive brakes is when discussing emergency brakes.

[Guest impulsivelystupid.lol]

Impulse

I hate to sound anal, especially when it comes to spelling (ask my boss, I constantly tell him he's narrow minded if he can't think of more than one way to spell a word), but the only "e" in automotive brakes is when discussing emergency brakes.

lol bear with me then please, never been much of a good speller, and key boarding issues.

[keiser31]

Impulse

I hate to sound anal, especially when it comes to spelling (ask my boss, I constantly tell him he's narrow minded if he can't think of more than one way to spell a word), but the only "e" in automotive brakes is when discussing emergency brakes.

Mmmm....doesn't the word "brake" have an "e" in it?

[Dave@Moon]

About the wire wheels. I don't know the manufacturer but I suspect it was not Dayton. The MGA had disc wheels as atandard and the wires were options.....Healy and MG used the same wire wheels.

The wire wheels used by BMC for MG and Austin-Healey were made by Dunlop. These wheels appear to be the factory option 48 spoke Dunlops, with the one pictured using the later-type knock-on (spinner) that lacks the MG logo. They were never chromed from the factory, and would be VERY expensive to get chromed today. The correct "warm gray" color used for these (and most other British) wheels is available from Eastwood ( Silver Wheel Paint for Imported Wire Wheels ).

Be sure to have these wheels professionally inspected and trued (if necessary) before driving on them. Wire wheels that have been sitting and have rusted like this need more than cosmetic care to be safe to drive.

BTW $2000 is a very fair price for this car, assuming the rust issues aren't so bad underneath that it can't be restored. Book values in my 2009 price guide are currently about $1000 for a parts car and about $3000 for a restorable non-runner, which seem to be pretty much spot-on for real world prices.

[CarlLaFong]

About the wire wheels. I don't know the manufacturer but I suspect it was not Dayton. The MGA had disc wheels as atandard and the wires were options. I have a 54 Austin Healy. My Healy originally came with 48 spoke wheels. These are OK for sedate boulevard driving. I have replaced them with later AH 3000 wires which have 72 spokes and are way stronger. Original finish for the wires was silver colored enamal. The knockoffs should be labeled UNDO and TIGHTEN with approiate directional arrows. Healy and MG used the same wire wheels.

It was not Dayton. They're an American company. They were made by Dunlop in England. The Healey and the MG wheels are not the same, The hubs are larger on the Healeys. TR6 and Healey wheels will interchange. The original finish is Argent silver on the disc and the wire wheels.

[Guest impulsivelystupid.lol]

The wire wheels used by BMC for MG and Austin-Healey were made by Dunlop. These wheels appear to be the factory option 48 spoke Dunlops, with the one pictured using the later-type knock-on (spinner) that lacks the MG logo. They were never chromed from the factory, and would be VERY expensive to get chromed today. The correct "warm gray" color used for these (and most other British) wheels is available from Eastwood ( Silver Wheel Paint for Imported Wire Wheels ).

Be sure to have these wheels professionally inspected and trued (if necessary) before driving on them. Wire wheels that have been sitting and have rusted like this need more than cosmetic care to be safe to drive.

BTW $2000 is a very fair price for this car, assuming the rust issues aren't so bad underneath that it can't be restored. Book values in my 2009 price guide are currently about $1000 for a parts car and about $3000 for a restorable non-runner, which seem to be pretty much spot-on for real world prices.

Dave thank you for the info on the wire wheel so they are either rudge and withworth or dunlops. i will do on the safety checks on the wheels. Seems the car actually ran in 2008, his son came over to take some stuff off the car and told me he had it idling then for a while. Pretty surprised it still runs. Not going to even attempt to start it till i get a look at it myself, but its pretty awesome that it ran so recently.

[Dave@Moon]

The Healey and the MG wheels are not the same, The hubs are larger on the Healeys.

According to Original MGA by Anders Clausager the knock-ons at least do interchange, at least the later plain-type, and both used 15"x4", 48 spoke rims. It may be that Healeys used different wheels for the 100-4 and 100-6, I don't know. Healey did switch to the 15"x4.5" wire wheel for the later 3000 series.

Wheel tech - MGA wheel types

http://www.mossmotors.com/graphics/products/PDF/AHY%20Wire%20Wheel%20Info.pdf

The TR6 used 15"x5.5' wheels.

[Guest impulsivelystupid.lol]

Okay experts i need our help. The car has a Dual Carburetors.....does this mean what i think it might mean? Is this....could it possibly be a twin cam?

[Guest impulsivelystupid.lol]

disregard last post.....they all had dual carburetors.

[CarlLaFong]

It is not likely to be a twin cam. That's good. Although they are rare and worth quite a bit more, they are finicky and parts are hard to find and costly. I was a parts manager at two British dealerships in the 70s and I couldn't get TC parts then. If I has a single, stamped sheet metal rocker cover, it is a normal OHV. If It has two, cast alloy covers and 4 wheel disc brakes it is a TC. And yes, they all had two carbs

[Dave@Moon]

If I has a single, stamped sheet metal rocker cover, it is a normal OHV. If It has two, cast alloy covers and 4 wheel disc brakes it is a TC.

MGA 1500cc engine:

MGA Twin Cam engine:

[Rusty_OToole]

A few thoughts. One, it looks like a bargain to me. Two, an MGA is one of the best supported, and easiest to get parts for, among sports cars. The only one easier would be an MGB. Three, they are a simple design. Almost all parts are easy to understand BUT they are English and everything has to be made in some weird half assed English way. As long as you get a good manual, have some mechanical savvy and don't get in too much of a hurry you should wind up OK. Four there are a lot of phony sports car mechanics out there who claim to know these cars but don't. They will mess your car up worse in 5 minutes, than a sensible amateur would in 5 years. Hint: get the manual, look up some MGA web sites and learn to do the work yourself.

They may not be as bulletproof as a modern car BUT a lot of grief about English cars being unreliable comes from American mechanics being baboons. I owned English cars and motorcycles for years and learned how to make them as reliable as other cars of their time. I can tell the jokes about Lucas electrics etc. but in truth, they are not bad. Not as good as Bosch or Delco (nothing is) but not as bad as they are painted.

Will also say, would rather have an English car from the fifties than one from the seventies or eighties. They went down hill badly just before the industry died.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Rusty, would you say the quality decline occurred in the early 70s? Asking specifically for your opinion on 60s AH/MG/TR products. (My 73 TR-6 was actually pretty reliable, main quality beefs were around interior materials which were not the greatest, but overall compared to my '71 Corvette, not too bad at all)

Agree on all your observations - another point, these cars did require a bit more routine servicing than say an American car like a Mustang or Camaro; it has been said buyers often could buy the car but cut corners on the maintenance schedule.

Not being a real muscle car guy, I find these a great alternative and a relative bargain if you can live without leaving 100 feet of rubber at the stoplight now and again...

[Restorer32]

Wife and I went thru 3 MGBs as our daily drivers. Loved 'em but they wern't very reliable cars regardless how carefully they were maintained. They liked to eat cams and they were designed to rust. If you drove an MG you soon learned to carry a stick so you could reach up under the car and tap on the fuel pump. Usually a smack or too got it ticking merrily away. We gave up on replacing the "gulp" valve on our last one and became accustomed to it backfiring every time you took your foot off the gas. Wife ended up with 5 stitches in her hand when an interior plastic door handle broke. Even with all that there are few things more fun than an English sports car, top down on a summer day.

[Dave@Moon]

Not being a real muscle car guy, I find these a great alternative and a relative bargain if you can live without leaving 100 feet of rubber at the stoplight now and again...

Having grown up in the foothills of the Alleghenies, I never understood the appeal of driving a traditional muscle car (on a regular basis). They do one thing very well, and everything else is compromised to some extent for that purpose.

My college roommates had a 1970 Challenger R/T and a 1968 Tr-Power 427 'Vette respectively. I remember vividly having to back down several steep hills at times in the Challenger when the engine had too much torque to not spin the wheels trying to pull out a red light or stop sign on a wet (or even damp) road. (It sometimes would be spinning the rear wheels slowly at idle!) The 'Vette (fastest car I ever drove) was nearly uncontrollable going into turns due to the weight imbalance.

If the roads bend and twist where you live, there is no substitute for the optimal overall driving pleasure of a balanced true sports car.

[1912Staver]

Congrats on your MGA purchase. If I may make a few suggestions it might make your ownership more pleasing. I have owned several MGA's over the last 35 years and driven them hundreds of thousands of miles. They are delightful cars but not without their problems; especially as they are now 50 years old, and may not have recived the best treatment in the past.

You seem concerned about the cosmetics, paint body etc. This should come last, you need to concentrate on making the car a safe reliable driver first. Believe it or not this will easily blow your $7000.00 budget, even if you do a lot of the work yourself. There is a reason the nice ones sell for $20,000.00 +.

There are two weak point on A's. The gearbox, and the front suspension. The gearboxes have an unsynchronized 1st. gear which eventually fails, and the needle bearings in the cluster shaft fail destroying the case hardening inside the gear. Both failures are common, and expensive to repair. A later full syncro MGB gearbox can be fitted but it's a involved job requiring a modified frame cross member. There are also conversions using Ford Sierra boxes but this is a big ticket item.

The front suspension is prone to undetected wear on the king pins and trunnions. This leads to sudden failure and at best a tow in/ big repair bill, you don't even want to think about the worst case. Complete dismantling and inspection of an unknown car is recommended, you will be shocked by how much wear will be on the acme thread components and how much slop is evident once all the crusty grease is removed. Fit new king pins and trunnions, or swap to the much improved MGB set up.

I could go on but I don't want to discourage you. MGA's are in my opinion one of the best of the British sports cars. But they require a sensible approach lest they become a heart and wallet breaking experience. Concentrate on the things that make the car stop { if the car doesn't have disk brakes{MGA 1500} get them!!!] and go. Once you are happy with it as a functioning machine make it look pretty.

Greg in British Columbia

[Terry Bond]

Rusty, you make some great points about people tinkering with their MGs without really understanding them, and forming that relationship with Joseph Lucas. We've found among our MG friends that the biggest offense is accessories being wired into the system somewhere by the simple cut and paste method - scrape off some insulation, wrap a wire around the bare spot and put some electrical tape on it. Using real solder and original (clean) bullet connectors and good grounds are the real key to a partnership with the "prince of darkness." We've had to undo a lot of amateur hack-jobs just because someone had hands too big to reach up under the dash to do things properly.

As has already been advised, get some books, make some new friends who drink dark beer, learn and enjoy. Oh- and don't worry about what it's worth. What price is fun anyway?

Terry

[Restorer32]

And keep in mind that any British Car mechanic worth a darn MUST have a handlebar mustache and toss around words like "spanner", "spigot", and "off side, near side". If they can't identify an "Otter switch" best find another mechanic.

[CarlLaFong]

I was involved with Austin Healeys for a number of years. They are a dead reliable automobile when sorted out and properly maintained. I would not hesitate to drive a good one cross country as long as I had a small tool kit, an extra fuel pump and a set of points in the boot. MGAs and early Bs are the same. The whole Lucas thing has been over played for years. Most of the problems stem from loose connections and people monkeying with things. Try the "Clear Hooter" crap that Standard Triumph favored and you'll appreciate the quality of Joe Lucas' stuff

[Dave@Moon]

Try the "Clear Hooter" crap that Standard Triumph favored and you'll appreciate the quality of Joe Lucas' stuff

I'll second that, although there's very little of it left to demonstrate it's limitations these days.

[1912Staver]

Hi Restorer 32, you are not going to find too many "otter switches" on an MGA. They are more of a 1970's part, although Jag used them earlier. But not as early as your XK if I remember correctly. I love XK series cars but even when they were cheap they were out of my range. They also suffer from rust at least as much as MG's, and are a far more complex car to repair. I have worked on several as customer cars, and always heald them in high regard. E types are grand also, but not quite the same character as an XK. Been involved with MK.II's as well, but always as a mechanic rather than an owner.

Greg in British Columbia

[1957buickjim]

Guys, I think you scared her off!

[Restorer32]

The XK 150 used an Otter switch. I bought my 140 in 1968 for the grand sum of $237.50 including a newly rebuilt head. I maintain that if you set a team of engineers to the task of designing a car that would rust as rapidly as possible they would come up with a design very similar to an XK Jaguar. We finished the restoration of a Mark VII that came to us totally disassembled and missing many small "bits". I lost both my kneecaps many years ago in an accident in a "Frog Eyed Sprite" and still I love British sports cars.

[Rusty_OToole]

Rusty, would you say the quality decline occurred in the early 70s? Asking specifically for your opinion on 60s AH/MG/TR products. (My 73 TR-6 was actually pretty reliable, main quality beefs were around interior materials which were not the greatest, but overall compared to my '71 Corvette, not too bad at all)

Agree on all your observations - another point, these cars did require a bit more routine servicing than say an American car like a Mustang or Camaro; it has been said buyers often could buy the car but cut corners on the maintenance schedule.

Not being a real muscle car guy, I find these a great alternative and a relative bargain if you can live without leaving 100 feet of rubber at the stoplight now and again...

The decline and fall of the British auto industry was a long drawn out process.

Take the MGA. Its basic engine, suspension and other parts debuted on the Austin A40 in 1947. They were state of the art for that time. The OHV engine was very efficient in terms of fuel use. But more than 30 years later they were still building cars with basically the same engine and suspension.

There were a lot of problems in the industry. The result was a lack of development of new models. There was a deterioration in quality and an increase in costs. In the seventies car makers had to have 3 or 4 sources for every part because of wildcat strikes. They had to buy from whatever source they could get regardless of quality or price.

In the fifties they were competitive but as time went on they had less and less to say for themselves. By the eighties all that was left of a once proud industry was a pathetic remnant.

[CarlLaFong]

There was a lot of stupidity and arrogance as well. All of the smaller British cars were based on post war, at best, designs and parts. This was fine for quite a few years and they thought that nothing could compare with their products. When the Japanese began building their Datsuns and Toyotas, the Brits laughed at them. It was reported that BSA/Triumph bought an early 750 Honda 4, rode it, tore it down and, proudly announced, "Chaps, we have nothing to worry about." They were in their graves and didn't even know it. Their idiotic unions, that guaranteed that the workers didn't have to actually work, didn't help, either.

[Dave@Moon]

There's more than enough blame to go around.

The best explanation of what happened to the 4th largest car company on earth (British Leyland) after 1970, and their competitors from the U.K., was on the BBC's Top Gear a few years ago. The video is divided into 3 parts in the links below. Each link is about 7 minutes long.

[Rusty_OToole]

Just goes to show what can be done by unions, management and government all working together. Now if they could only figure out how to improve things rather than run them into the ground they would be doing something.

[Dave@Moon]

Just goes to show what can be done by unions, management and government all working together. Now if they could only figure out how to improve things rather than run them into the ground they would be doing something.

That sounds suspiciously like the recent history of Ford!

Things are rarely all that dark, or light.

[Rusty_OToole]

That sounds suspiciously like the recent history of Ford!

Things are rarely all that dark, or light.

Have you visited Detroit lately?

[Guest impulsivelystupid.lol]

Guys, I think you scared her off!

Nah i have just been busy... My father will be my Mechanic. He knows these cars very well, though he does not know what these cars are worth in the condition it is currently in. I will be working right along side him...but i need to wait till he can come back from Hawaii in the summer. He will be with me for 5 months and in the mean time I hope to put some Marvel Mystery oil or transmission fluid into the cylinders and let sit for about a month before my father comes to work on the engine.

I will start doing the work that i can focus on right now, like the chrome, which is not bad at all. Just a little cleaning and polish and the majority will shine right up! and since this will be a frame off restoration i can start with taking some off some of the Surface electronics, the rear and front lighting, turn signals ect.

I am focusing on what i can do in the hear and now without causing myself to get into trouble... lol. Wait for the expert.

Under no circumstance will i look at the engine myself....I am afraid i do not know enough and i would cause more harm than good.

The car is in my basement.....Pictures will be taken again during the entire process of restoration...It will take time, prolly more time than i wish.

Edited December 22, 2011 by impulsivelystupid.lol (see edit history)

[dalef62]

Is the engine stuck? Good luck on your new project.

[Guest impulsivelystupid.lol]

Yes it is.

[Guest impulsivelystupid.lol]

Hi all Work has Finally!!! Finally started. Just a little update here. We had title issues and moving issues, but now its in my garage and i have started opening her up. here is what she looks like!

[keiser31]

Man, I am sooooooo jealous.