Polo Green Convertibles Redux

[DAVES89]

With you finding a new source for accumulators and kdirk working on IPC's there is real light at the end of the tunnel.

Now if we can only find a '91 Polo Green 'vert

[Guest steveskyhawk]

There are 4 confirmed polo green 91 Reatta convertibles.

Edited April 28, 2011 by Rawja (see edit history)

[DAVES89]

Four confirmed? Confirmed by who? You physically saw them?

Edited April 28, 2011 by Rawja (see edit history)

[reattadudes]

Dave,

it's interesting that you ask that question.

I was very fortunate to spend the entire afternoon yesterday with Tony Alberto.

Tony was the chief engineer and troubleshooter on the Reatta project, and worked at the Craft Centre from day one, all the way from the Reatta to the EV1, Cavalier and Sunfire convertibles, the Chevrolet SSR, and the final years of the Eldorado before he retired.

He needed some parts for his Reatta. I have an arrangement with him; the parts are always free, in exchange for information about his time with the Reatta at the Craft Centre.

and yesterday the first thing I said was, "tell me about green convertibles". were you perhaps sitting on my shoulder?

there were four built.

the first two were technically sold retail units, but they did not pass muster for cowl shake when road tested on the I-95 "torture road" in West Palm Beach, Florida. they were rated #2 by the engineers, so these were among the 46 GM executive units sold to GM employees in a lottery type system when they reached 7,500 miles.

Tony then brought out a photo I've seen before, of all 46 together in a lot at a GM facility. it was a beautiful May day in 1991 (the photo was date stamped), and the photo was taken from the roof of the building. the two green cars are in the front row, side by side. it is obvious they are green for two reasons: 1) the sun is very bright, and the color is clearly visible, and 2) they each have a black car on either side, and the color difference is quite obvious.

one of the two was immediately sold to a dealer by an employee, and that one ended up at a dealer in the Philadelphia area.

the third one should be easily known by MSU Spartan fans. I know as much about sports as Donald Trump knows about humility, so I'm not aware of team colors.

this particular car was green with a white top, and a white interior with saddle trim. the head restraint covers were sent out to Oldsmobile, and they came back with a "Sparty" mascot logo embroidered on each one.

this car was used in numerous MSU parades, and used at MSU events. Tony said there have to be hundreds of photos and videos of this car.

the fourth one was one of the last cars off the line, and preceeded the "final" red ones. this car went into the Oldsmobile museum for a while, and then went down the street to the "barn" (any Lansing residents on the forum?), before heading to one of the private GM collections in Sterling Heights.

I know this car is in Sterling Heights, because about seven years ago the company that maintains the collection for GM called us about a tonneau cover that someone had damaged. when I asked what color it was, they said it was green.

Tony also said there were 2 or 3 1991 Select Sixtys built; these were not for dealers, but for GM executives who wanted them. for some reason, he didn't want to tell me about who got them, but they were very high executives. they were apparently non sequential serial numbers, and technically don't exist.

Tony always roars with laughter when I tell him about all of the doubts from other folks about off-standard Reattas. I can remember not many years ago when I was vilified by one of our "experts" for the mere suggestion that any convertibles were produced with cloth tops. of course, this vilification came after another meeting with Tony, when he told me they built hundreds of cloth top convertibles.

I'll put my money on the guy who was there in the Craft Centre, and watched it all happen.

so Spartan fans, go thru those archives and find some photos of that green Spartan convertible that "never existed".

let me know when the crow dinner will be served; I'd love to watch.

Mike Rukavina

buickreattaparts.com

Edited April 28, 2011 by Rawja (see edit history)

[Rawja]

this particular car was green with a white top, and a white interior with saddle trim. the head restraint covers were sent out to Oldsmobile, and they came back with a "Sparty" mascot logo embroidered on each one.

:eek: Sounds awful, even without the embroidery.

[Barney Eaton]

Mike, what a great "story".

I just printed and laminated it so I can use it for reference.

Edited April 28, 2011 by Barney Eaton (see edit history)

[wws944]

:eek: Sounds awful, even without the embroidery.

My thoughts exactly.

It is a matter of taste and tradition, of course. But IMHO, green belongs on British two seaters - not American ones.

[jonlabree]

Guess what?

[reattadudes]

I didn't realize how many MSU alumni read this forum!

I've had three calls and two emails about this car from MSU alumni this morning. they all remember the car. one is very active in the alumni association, and will be checking their archives for photos and videos.

another not only remembers the car, but knows who bought it from MSU when they sold the car in the late 90s.

expect to have actual photos of this car within the next two weeks, and will post them here when received.

looks like green convertibles are going the way of "no cloth tops".

Mike Rukavina

buickreattaparts.com

[Nittany]

Dear Forum,

I'm keeping an open mind and look forward to seeing documentation, while acknowledging that "others have been there and done that". From my experience as a Pontiac & Buick Sales Manager at a dealership in the the time frame that the Reatta was built, I have no doubt in my mind that special cars were being built for customers or dealers that had special requests. (I have seen & driven some Pontiac "special deliveries" and we sold a serious amount of Pontiacs).

Rather than stating that someone is right or wrong and knowing what I do about GM during the time period that Reatta's were built, I encourage others to be open-minded to what may have been. Does this mean I condone the animosity that has recently been demonstrated on our forum? NO

I detest seeing Forum members degrading other peoples efforts and work product. Conversely, I greatly appreciate the people like Barney Eaton and Mike RuKavina and Jim Finn who have contributed so much to the Reatta experience that we enjoy together. Ultimately we will either see Polo green convertibles or we won't. Still, l hope that all of us can continue to work together so that we can keep our "classic Reatta's" running and looking good!!

[padgett]

Well, my black question 'vert could use paint...

[Guest BJM]

Here we g®ow again.

[Guest 1991Reatta]

Not 4 or even 1 1991 Convertable Reatta exist. There was 1 on the assembly line when the Reatta was cancelled....the car was pulled out of production and scarped....Buick did NOT want to have just 1 1991 green Reatta....so it was scraped. I was working at Buick during the entire life of the Reatta. I was the commercial photographer for Buick from 1982 to 2000. I photographed the Reatta from clay to fiberglass....to the end of the Reatta....I was there for it all....and there is NO 1991 Green Reatta Convertable! If you want to see the history of the Reatta in pictures go to: Picture This... | History of the Reatta

[Guest blue72beetle]

Great photos! Love the Targa Top Reatta

[Guest 1991Reatta]

Thanks....you have 2 nice looking Reatta's...I have a 1991 Red / tan Reatta Convertable.....26,000....had it since it was new!

[Booreatta]

Not 4 or even 1 1991 Convertable Reatta exist. There was 1 on the assembly line when the Reatta was cancelled....the car was pulled out of production and scarped....Buick did NOT want to have just 1 1991 green Reatta....so it was scraped. I was working at Buick during the entire life of the Reatta. I was the commercial photographer for Buick from 1982 to 2000. I photographed the Reatta from clay to fiberglass....to the end of the Reatta....I was there for it all....and there is NO 1991 Green Reatta Convertable! If you want to see the history of the Reatta in pictures go to: Picture This... | History of the Reatta

This is maybe the information that we have been looking for. Really good photos.

I guess the other question that needs some input, is what do you know about the little pewter model of the 1988 Reatta coupe. Who made it and how many were made. If you have any information please share

Thanks

Chuck Kerls

booreatta@cox.net

[Guest 1991Reatta]

Hey Chuck

I wish I had one.....I do remember seeing them on higher ups desk....not many were made....they were about 4 inches long and they sat on a nice piece of wood.

Regards Gary

[Guest Kingsley]

I am sure a lot of Forum folks look forward to seeing a letter from Mr. Alberto addressed to someone in authority on the Forum, suggest Mr. Popyk, advising them on the subject so we can have some credible info. Until then, there would appear to be no substantive basis for this information.

[wws944]

Thank you so much for posting the photos. In the words of Tony the Tiger, "They are *great*!".

Lots of little things catch the eye. Body colored shift knob in the '88 interior. Dual pipes on the rear of several prototypes. The "targa" top model is very intriguing - and I note that it has wheels that are very reminiscent of the early drawing in photo #3. (Seems to be a consistent theme that some designer (Mr McIntosh?) really liked wheels with covered lug nuts.) Nice detail on the turbo setups. What about the supercharged version? The 1992 model looks to be totally unchanged, except for the new interior color. (Or is the the same rare white interior that a few 1991s had?)

Edited September 22, 2011 by wws944 (see edit history)

[Guest 1991Reatta]

Thanks....you have a good Reatta eye...you are right,.....the tan interior was a different color...a lighter color tan....but it was pretty much going to be unchanged for 1992,

Regards Gary

[padgett]

Great photos, personally wish the targa had made production, is really the best of both worlds. Only problem is "what do you do with it when not installed ?" Structural ridgidity is not the only reason for T-Tops, stowage is equally important.

[Nittany]

Welcome aboard 1991Reatta!!

Thanks so much for the photo history of the Reatta!! It is absolutely fascinating!!

[Barney Eaton]

Thanks for Gary posting the History pictures.

Has anyone noticed the factory convertible pictures never have the little black piece of tape behind the door? That is the black tape between the door and boot, rechech the pictures on the History file and you will notice they are missing.

[wws944]

Thanks for Gary posting the History pictures.

Has anyone noticed the factory convertible pictures never have the little black piece of tape behind the door? That is the black tape between the door and boot, rechech the pictures on the History file and you will notice they are missing.

Barney (or anyone): Do you know if this 'tape' (though it seems a bit thicker than typical tape) is replaceable? One of mine has a nick in it, so body color shows through.

Back to the pictures, look closely at #23, which has the RWD turbo test car at a drag strip. There is 'air' under the front wheels!

[harry yarnell]

Is the '91 red interior really THAT red?

[Reattatude]

Well ya got admit one thing and that is the Reatta stirs up its share and more of controversy.

[NCReatta]

Thanks for contributing, Gary. I'm glad everyone else is able to see these pictures. They're truly gorgeous!

[NCReatta]

Is the '91 red interior really THAT red?

It's really red.. I mean really.. I saw a '91 coupe a few years ago that was red with a red interior.. it brunt my eyes...:eek::eek:

[Guest steveskyhawk]

"anyone): Do you know if this 'tape' (though it seems a bit thicker than typical tape) is replaceable? One of mine has a nick in it, so body color shows through."

944

I have replaced that tape on two cars. It is pretty easy. Getting all of the old tape off is the hard part. The human fingernail is the tool of choice. As soon as you put the top back up it will get nicked again. The "B" pillar rests on that point and when the car flexes the B pillar will mess up that tape again. At least when you reinstall the tape you can do a better job of positioning it than the factory did. FWIW Nothing is perfect.

I'd like to thank "1991 Reatta" for confirming the existence of one of the Polo Green 1991 Convertibles. His explanation that Buick destroyed it because there weren't others like it is a bridge too far of course. (documentation Chuck?) One cool thing about the Reatta is the folklore associated with the car. Posting file photos of Reattas proves nothing except that the people that chose the photos thought the car looked best in red. There are no file photos of Driftwood Reattas so is that an indication that none were produced? I think not. These file photos were obviously intended for promotional purposes as opposed to a historical record.

Every industry has erroneous information that floats around in the public domain. I have heard many people report that "flying jet aircraft is like driving a bus". I can assure you that most busses don't go 500 miles per hour and aren't required to begin planning for the off ramp 100 miles prior.

[Booreatta]

"anyone): Do you know if this 'tape' (though it seems a bit thicker than typical tape) is replaceable? One of mine has a nick in it, so body color shows through."

944

I have replaced that tape on two cars. It is pretty easy. Getting all of the old tape off is the hard part. The human fingernail is the tool of choice. As soon as you put the top back up it will get nicked again. The "B" pillar rests on that point and when the car flexes the B pillar will mess up that tape again. At least when you reinstall the tape you can do a better job of positioning it than the factory did. FWIW Nothing is perfect.

I'd like to thank "1991 Reatta" for confirming the existence of one of the Polo Green 1991 Convertibles. His explanation that Buick destroyed it because there weren't others like it is a bridge too far of course. (documentation Chuck?) One cool thing about the Reatta is the folklore associated with the car. Posting file photos of Reattas proves nothing except that the people that chose the photos thought the car looked best in red. There are no file photos of Driftwood Reattas so is that an indication that none were produced? I think not. These file photos were obviously intended for promotional purposes as opposed to a historical record.

Every industry has erroneous information that floats around in the public domain. I have heard many people report that "flying jet aircraft is like driving a bus". I can assure you that most busses don't go 500 miles per hour and aren't required to begin planning for the off ramp 100 miles prior.

well Steve maybe we are getting somewhere, who knows. I cant believe all of the stories but more information will surface as time goes by. I would still like to see a photo. Just one that was scrapped does not make 4

Will keep trying

Chuck Kerls

[Guest steveskyhawk]

Chuck,

How can we be certain it was scrapped? Do you think Buick would scrap a perfectly good car because it was rare color combination? I think not. At least we have confirmed one of the 4 Polo Green 1991 convertibles existence. We may never find out what happened to it but it and probably 3 others did exist.

[Ronnie]

...I'd like to thank "1991 Reatta" for confirming the existence of one of the Polo Green 1991 Convertibles. His explanation that Buick destroyed it because there weren't others like it is a bridge too far of course...

Chuck,

How can we be certain it was scrapped? Do you think Buick would scrap a perfectly good car because it was rare color combination? I think not. At least we have confirmed one of the 4 Polo Green 1991 convertibles existence. We may never find out what happened to it but it and probably 3 others did exist.

You believed 1991Reatta when he said a polo green convertible was on the assembly line and praised him for coming forward with that information. Why wouldn't you believe him when he said it was scrapped? It doesn't seem logical to embrace statements that support your point of view and reject ones that don't when the statements were made by the same person in the same paragraph. I'm not taking sides in this argument but to me you either have to believe what 1991Reatta said about polo convertibles or you don't. You can't pick and choose the truth that best fits your point of view.

[Guest steveskyhawk]

Ronnie and all,

It is all about access. A contract photographer may have had access to the final assembly area of the Craft Centre. That limited opportunity may have given him a "snapshot" of what was there. (pun intended) The statement that they scrapped the car because there weren't very many others like it is ridiculous. The photos he offered were nice but were not historical rather purely promotional. We have seen them all before.

This reminds me of the statement that flying a jet aircraft is like driving a bus. I'm certain that years ago a bubble headed flight attendant was bringing the flight crew coffee and asked a question that didn't deserve an answer. Both pilots had their feet up on the glare shield with the auto pilot maintaining course and altitude. (now days they would be messing with their iPads) He/She said "this looks easy, is it hard to fly a plane?" Captain responded "of course it is, it's like driving a bus now go get me a sandwich". Ask Captain Sullenberger if landing an Airbus on the Hudson without power is easy. Ask Captain Al Haynes if landing a DC10 in Sioux City is easy with an engine explosion that takes out your hydraulics and flight controls.

I suspect that somebody asked what happened to the green convertibles. Somebody jokingly answered that they were scrapped because there were so few of them. They didn't like green possibly. Looked too Christmassy next to all the red ones. Thus the beginning of the myth. I believe the man when he reports that he saw one. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs.

[Ronnie]

I hope my comments didn't sound argumentative and I didn't mean to offend you. That was not my intention at all.

You are correct in saying you are entitled to your opinion and I do respect your opinion. You know a lot more about the Buick Reatta than I do. I would agree that it makes no sense to scrap the car because of it's color but I think you would agree that if the car was painted a different color and went out the door to a dealer, it wasn't a polo green any longer. I think that is likely to be what happened.

As a person who doesn't care one way or the other about the polo verts, I was just pointing out how information that comes to light about the polo vert is being twisted and messaged to make it look a certain way. It is being done on both sides of this argument to prop up opinions that are pretty much built on hearsay instead of verifiable facts.

[padgett]

a) There were enough green coupes that the spares situation would not be a problem.

I expect that where it was in the assembly process when the stop order came down might have a bearing.

Surprised no one with a 91 'vert (all of mine are 90s) hasn't genned up a SPI sticker and done a full body repaint by now. (of course you might need to slip the compnine admin a few sheckles along the way)

[Guest 1991Reatta]

I was NOT a contract photographer...I was a GM employee that worked at Buick for 18 years as a commercial photographer. I photographed Reatta from beginning to end! The Green Reatta that was scrapped was NOT even close to being a completed car....it was scraped! GM scraped cars ALL the time...pilots, prototypes, show cars....perfectly good cars....SCRAPED!!! NOT one nor 4 green convertables were ever built....if one even does show up....check the vin....it didn't start life as a green car...I will promise you that!!! I do agree....I'm surprised no one has repainted a Reatta to green yet...it will happen...sooner or later!!!

[Guest steveskyhawk]

Duncan and all,

Nobody is questioning your integrity. It is understandable that as a GM employee you were told things. I believe you when you say that you were told that cars were scrapped. We all know that cars are scrapped at times. I wouldn't have believed it then and I don't believe it now that a convertible was scrapped because it was green however. An incomplete Polo Green Convertible could very well have been scrapped. That fact in no way indicates how many actually were completed and delivered. Are you saying that they only painted one? You are free to believe this if you wish.

That being said we have been told that there were 4 Polo Green 1991 Reatta Convertibles. This information came from the Reatta Project Engineer. He went into great detail regarding one of the green convertibles which went to MSU. In my opinion the recollections of the Reatta project engineer trump the recollection of someone that appears 20 years after the fact and claims to be a photographer. I talked to a Reatta owner in Pennsylvania that bought his car new. He remembers a polo green convertible on the showroom floor when he bought his car. Like you I believe that these people are truthful too.

The question remains that if these cars were produced and any of the four still exist will they ever surface? Who knows? If you tend to believe as I do that they are out there, the odds of finding one is equivalent of finding that needle in a haystack. Until then all we can do is gather anecdotal data as you have provided. Thank you.

[padgett]

Guys, I agree with what both of you are saying, I see no discrepancy and also worked for GM and know some of the stunts that used to be pulled. OTOH the emotional loading of some of the posts seem to be personally disparaging and that goes beyond normal bounds - all it does is to serve to drive people away.

At Pontiac "body in white" usually meant that either sales or engineering has special plans for that car, something the computer may have never known about. "Body in aisle" meant something similar but usually meant that some part was not in the inventory (when I ordered my Sunbird there was a delay beacuse they were out of stock on the limited slip differential).

Heck I know of one GM factory show car that "disappeared" because the following year the chassis was rebodied as a different show car.

It is entirely possible that the MSU car started out as something completely different, an exterior shot really does not tell very much.

Polo Green was a stock item (there is a Caddy that color in my neighborhood, it does not wear as well as some in this century). White Pearl was also a caddy color and am certain that if someone like Frank Sr. wanted one, it would happen (and probably have the "special" code Barney mentioned). Personally, I always liked a BRG/saddle combo. Both my 70 GS and 72 GTO were special ordered that way (and was not a normal combo).

So bottom line: anything "could" have happened. Did it ? Only time and creative photoshopping will tell.

[DAVES89]

Steve you should have stopped at the Project Engineer. After that you went to heresay. A guy remembering a Polo Green Vert when he bought his car? Go up to the General Forum and read posts from guys who show their cars and have people come up to them and talk about the cars they had [or a family member had] that were just like the one the guy is showing [but weren't].

Also the MSU collisium holds 90,000 people, and MSU has thousands of fans and boosters around the country, and yet you can't come up with one picture of a Polo Green vert.

If a guy says he was a staff photographer for G.M. and says that yes there was one, but it got scrapped, why wouldn't he be right? Don't you think that when the annoucement came down that the Reatta was being discontinued that he would be there at the end to photograph the last of the Reattas coming off the line? Which is the time frame that by ALL accounts is when the Polo Green ones were made.

Steve, I can see you are stubborn and want to be right. Guess what? You are right, Barneys right, the photographer and project engineer is right. They were made, [you now have colloborative evidence from 2 people inside the Craft Center that said they were] they just never made it to the street [incomplete, cowl shake, etc].

Now that we know they were made we can put this to rest. [Thankfully]

[Reattatude]

This sort of thread wont drive me away hope it gets lots more posts

If the subject doesn't interest you there are other threads but this interests me and a lot of other users too apparently. This is stuff worth discussion so please don't just dizmiss it!