NEW GAS ?

[Guest broker-bob]

have been reading some of the postings on the trouble with new gas I have two mopars one with updraft carb and one with one barel down draft doint seem to have any problems here in east some of the info states that they leak,,,,does that mean it goes throuth the gasgets or leaks into the motor after shut down ?????? if it is the later how does that hapen ??? there is a U tub bit of nothing but a picture down a one baral carb I think looking at gas leaking did'nt see any ??? ----------- are they saying the gas somehown climes up the tube and into the motor sinse dilution of oil is the mayor cause of engine ware would it be advisable to put a cut off valve in the fuel line and let the motor starve to shut down ----------------------TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEM------------broker bob

[Guest Silverghost]

The new fuel has been causing me all sorts of grief with my 1960 Corvette's Mechanical Rochester Fuel Injection system.

This fuel problem is a real mess.

Just wait to see when they add 15% or more ethanol !

I guess I should send Uncle Sam my repair bills ?

[Dave Mellor NJ]

I think the main problem is leaks caused by reformulated/ethanol gas attacking older,incompatible gaskets and seals. They are suspected of causing fires in showrooms as in a dealership on Rt 73 in Mt Laurel,NJ a few years ago when it traveled to a pilot light.

[Guest Silverghost]

Dave I remeber that fire !

Did they ever find the cause of the fire at that classic car showroom on 73 a few years back. The owner skipped town !

Many folks lost their cars.

Everyone was looking for the owner?

Re: New Fuel.

You have no idea what the master rebuilding kits cost for the old Corvette Rochester Mechanical Fuel Injection system cost ?

I do all my own repairs~

But this ethanol formulated fuel just tears these gaskets & diaphrams up !

Part of the problem is the vette sits for weeks or months and the fuel causes all sorts of damage !

It breaks-down really fast !

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Besides attacking gaskets and older rubber hoses and diaphragms, the ethanol blended fuels are more volatile than older blends, and tend to boil-away / evaporate from the carb bowl when the vehicle is parked hot, or stands unused for more than a day or two.

The "parked-hot" situation tends to result in percolation, which can cause flooding and hard re-starting ( indentified by lots of black smoke when the engine finally fires-up ). This is usually limited to down-draft carbs.

The "left un-touched for several days" scenario is a case of the fuel evaporating form the carb bowl, and when you go to start it, you have to crank, crank, and crank until the fuel-pump re-fills the carb bowl. Or prime the carb with gasoline, or starting fluid.

My '41 De Soto usually takes about 20-30 seconds of cranking to fill the carb and start-up when it hasn't been run recently. If it's been run within the last day or so, it starts within 5 seconds cranking.

This is typical of all my carbureted vehicles, except the Model A, which has gravity feed.

Broker Bob, I think what you are describing about "gasoline climbing into the engine" is referring to percolation; for long-term storage, it is probably not a bad idea to shut-off the fuel, and run the carb dry. Model A guys do this all the time when parking the car.

If you do put a shut-off in the fuel line, make sure the diameter through the valve is large enough that it does not cause a fuel flow problem at full-thottle operation

(highway speeds / long pulls).

There has also been talk of alcohol-blended fuels causing corrosion of metal parts in the fuel system, so if a vehicle is going to be laid-up for a long time, best to drain the tank, lines, carb, etc.

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

I think the main problem is leaks caused by reformulated/ethanol gas attacking older,incompatible gaskets and seals. They are suspected of causing fires in showrooms as in a dealership on Rt 73 in Mt Laurel,NJ a few years ago when it traveled to a pilot light.

It may be far more than gaskets being attacked. I have suspected for quite sometime that injection cleaners that are being added to gasoline by refiners are leaching metal from OE carburetors resulting in internal passages and gasket bite ridges being altered. In the case of gasket bite ridges I have observed on numerous Motorcraft (or should I say Motorcrap) carburetors of the 1970s being completely eaten away making a rebuild impossible and most certainly setting up a hazardous condition as with time the gasket will allow fuel to migrate out of the carburetor both at the base plate and airhorn. In extreme cases base plate to body screw threads have also been observed to just dissapear. Obviously when screw threads dissapear the carburetor just becomes so much aluminum alloy/pot metal junk.

I would advise that everyone give a periodic visual inspection of the carburetor on their vehicles, regardless of make or age, for oozing of fuel at the airhorn or baseplate. Oozing will eventually leave a varnish like substance on the outside of the carburetor and is a clear indication of a problem that should be addressed for both performance and fire hazard reasons.

Jim

[RonHeberle]

I haven't noticed any problem yet on my big block chevelle but will certainly keep an eye on things, thanks for the information.

[Jim Bollman]

Was just thinking of starting a threat like this to find out what preventive measures people were doing. The last stations in my area that had real gas, switched a month or so ago. I now have what is in my vehicles and tractors and about 2 gallons in a can left of real gas.

So are there thinks to do to minimize the problems?

The new green STA-BIL is according to the bottle suppose to counteract some of the bad thing that ethanol do. They say to use it in every tank full and extra for over Winter storage. I bought some but have not tried it yet.

I was thinking of talking to some local farmer friends and a small airport to see if they had real gas that I could at least buy for my tractors and small engine use. I know the state would not like me using it in my cars and trucks, plus it would not be practical for any vehicle that I put more than a few miles on a year anyway.

A friend told me as a minimum to put a filter just before the carb to stop the chunks that break loose up stream from carb.

[Guest Silverghost]

Never thought I'd look fondly back at those days just a few short years ago when all they put in the gas was MTBE !

This new "Stuff" will errode & dissolve fiberglass underground gas station tanks.

I know several people with boats that had had to replace their fiberglass tanks with new costly cross-linked Polyethelene tanks.

[nearchoclatetown]

Never thought I'd look fondly back at those days just a few short years ago when all they put in the gas was MTBE !

This new "Stuff" will errode & dissolve fiberglass underground gas station tanks.

I know several people with boats that had had to replace their fiberglass tanks with new costly cross-linked Polyethelene tanks.

And it eats paint if you spill it on a fender.

[Guest billybird]

I'm confident when we get everything on our old cars changed over to alcohol compatible the government will mandate something else to keep people spending money.

[Dave Mellor NJ]

Getting back to that dealership fire on Rt 73 in Mt Laurel, they never said what caused the fire but all things pointed to the leaking fuel as the culprit and it was hushed up. As far as the disappearing dealer, I think that was the guy who left bloody clothes in his trunk in south Philly to stage his own death. He absconded to Arizona with the money but they found him living under an assumed name. Who woulda thought that such a fine group of fellas as classic car dealers are capable of doing such things?

[Scotts_DG8]

Just thinking/questioning out loud on the effects of the “new” gas. Is there not a coating that one could get on/in a carburetor? Specifically, if one were to rebuild a carb, could you or a rebuilder submerge the body/parts while dismantled that would ward off the side effects of the new gas? I’m sure that it is not the end all solution but this is more a curiosity comment/question? I know that you can get coating for your gas tank, I’d already had this done to one of mine. If gas lines were also a problem maybe you could also flush a new gas line the same coating to thwart the effects the new gas might have on it. One thing for sure new gas is not going away, what other ways are there to fight the effects of it? As I said, I’m just thinking/questioning out loud on this. Scott…

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

I haven't noticed any problem yet on my big block chevelle but will certainly keep an eye on things, thanks for the information.

The problem I have observed with Motorcraft 4350 and 4350D carburetors possibly being damaged by injector cleaners in pump gasoline may be unique to them as I have not seen any degree of evidence the same thing is occurring to a noticeable extent with Rochester, Carter, or Holley carbs that were OE. Whether pump gas with 10% ethanol is damaging gaskets and seals in carburetors I can't say because of very minimal exposure to fuel with 10% ethanol.

My personal opinion is Ethanol in general is a fools game that makes absolutely no sense to anyone other than environmentalists and those who have sucked investors into investments to build ethanol processing facilities. In the long run it will prove to be one of the more stupid notions to have been shoved onto the public with little or no consideration given to its practicality. The same fate may well be awaiting cars considered electric hybrids.

[RonHeberle]

Thanks Jim, that does make alot of sense. Currently I am running an Edelbrock. As mentioned I have not noticed or experienced any problems yet but was certainly glad I read those posts so I will keep an eye on things. My vehicle sits alot especially now that we are heading into winter. I do not want any trouble either. We get alot of things pushed on us without much information about potential problems but then again most folks creating these changes do not know enough about them or care about the problems those changes might create.

[Dave@Moon]

While ethanol isn't exactly harmless to some older gasket types, I do think Jim may be on to something with the injector cleaners and other additives that are also along for the ride these days. In Iowa in the 1980s (where I went to grad school), virtually ALL gasoline was 10% ethanol due to state tax advantages. I believe the only major exception was Chevron, which was a pretty rare gas to find at the time there.

I never noticed anyone having trouble with ethanol in any car, and at the time everything was still carbureted. At that time I was driving a 1960 Ford Falcon, which was then a 20-23 year old car. Over those 3 years I put 35,000 miles on it, ALL on 10% ethanol. The fuel pump did let go after 10,000 miles on Iowa gas, but only on the vacuum booster side. The same carburetor was still on the car, untouched from new, when I sold the car 9 years after leaving Iowa. Ditto for the rebuilt NAPA fuel pump, which ate "only" 25,000 miles worth of the stuff.

And I was hardly alone driving an old car in Iowa in 1980, and the state is hardly littered with the remains of ethanol-murdered cars from the 1980s.

The point is, this was 30+ years ago. While it would be pointless to discuss ethanol's benefits/detriments here (there's not much of an open-minded audience), it is most certainly not a new thing in gasoline. Not by a long shot! If it's doing damage now that it wasn't doing 30 years ago, somebody's perceptions are off.

Edited October 27, 2010 by Dave@Moon
grammer (see edit history)

[rocketraider]

My personal opinion is Ethanol in general is a fools game that makes absolutely no sense to anyone other than environmentalists and those who have sucked investors into investments to build ethanol processing facilities. In the long run it will prove to be one of the more stupid notions to have been shoved onto the public with little or no consideration given to its practicality. The same fate may well be awaiting cars considered electric hybrids.

Hear! Hear!

I'm firmly convinced that ethanol fuels will eventually be exposed as a health hazard on par with MTBE, asbestos, secondhand smoke and others. No one thought those were hazardous to health either.

Reduce our dependence on foreign oil? Might as well tell WalMart to reduce its dependence on Chinese imports.

Foreign oil, as ALL of us (or all should) well know, is strictly a game fostered by investors who realised a lot of money could be made by manipulating the price of oil. Then when the politicians and environmentalists got on the bandwagon and realised political hay could be made, and the doomsday crowd realised they could use it to keep the public frightened, well... go figure.

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

Dave you bring up a good point that everyone should think about. Over the years gasket materials have been dramatically improved, as have the materials used in automatic transmission clutch packs. If needing to rebuild any carburetor, automatic transmission, or fuel pump it is ill advised to go looking for a vintage kit from the times as you'll have probably wasted both time and money. Do it right once with new kits with improved materials.

One should also anticipate that "gem" of an NOS fuel pump or carburetor that has surfaced after 50 years of sitting on the shelf some where ain't going to live long without requiring a rebuild, so might as well rebuild with a fresh kit before installing it!

[Dave@Moon]

Hear! Hear!

I'm firmly convinced that ethanol fuels will eventually be exposed as a health hazard on par with MTBE, asbestos, secondhand smoke and others. No one thought those were hazardous to health either.

Reduce our dependence on foreign oil? Might as well tell WalMart to reduce its dependence on Chinese imports.

Foreign oil, as ALL of us (or all should) well know, is strictly a game fostered by investors who realised a lot of money could be made by manipulating the price of oil. Then when the politicians and environmentalists got on the bandwagon and realised political hay could be made, and the doomsday crowd realised they could use it to keep the public frightened, well... go figure.

Like I said; "...it would be pointless to discuss ethanol's benefits/detriments here (there's not much of an open-minded audience),..." I should have said benefits/detriments & purpose.

And as for the environmental consequences of ethanol, I think most of us test that frequently on our own bodies.

[Guest billybird]

I agree with some previous posts about the health hazzard being proven some day.

[Guest Skyking]

Like it or not guys, it's all about money...........

[Guest Silverghost]

Since "Lead" was removed from pump gas decades ago (1976 ?) have we seen any real change in the USA public's health conditions as a result; that were related to lead ? I know all forms of lead contamination is a real public health risk.

BUT:

I think that adding MTBE has caused many well water problems & health related issues than it really helped with clean air issues.

Now look at all the problems MTBE has caused !

The Government & fuel Industry jumps-in with these gasoline "Improvments" without enough proper scientific long term testing beforehand !

Just MY opinion.

I am not closed minded to these health related issues.

Edited October 28, 2010 by Silverghost (see edit history)

[Dave@Moon]

Since "Lead" was removed from pump gas decades ago (1977 ?) have we seen any real change in the USA public's health conditions as a result; that were related to lead ?

See http://www.unep.org/pcfv/PDF/Pub-AECLP-Myths.pdf:

In the U.S., the virtual elimination of leaded gasoline resulted in a

77% decrease in the average blood lead level of the population between the years of

1976 and 1991.

[JFranklin]

Quote:

In the U.S., the virtual elimination of leaded gasoline resulted in a

77% decrease in the average blood lead level of the population between the years of

1976 and 1991.

But are we any better off or are our brains any smarter?

[Guest Silverghost]

That was the exact point I was trying to make here !

[Dave@Moon]

Like I said; "...it would be pointless to discuss ethanol's benefits/detriments here (there's not much of an open-minded audience),..." I should have said benefits/detriments & purpose.

....And now it's lead.

No matter what the subject, there's a loyal cadre here to build a manufactroversy around it. ( manufactroversy - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com ) There are just too many people well-trained as contrarians. ( contrarian - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com )

If anybody out there really thinks there are no benefits to reducing blood lead levels, look it up yourself.

...That's what I thought.

Edited October 28, 2010 by Dave@Moon
spelling (see edit history)

[Guest De Soto Frank]

A note of historical reference: the original reason tetra-ethyl lead was added to gasolines was as an anti-knock compound. Not to lubricate valves or anything else.

Dave,

Back in the late 1980's - early 1990's, before there was ethanated fuel in MD, my Mom was using our 1962 Falcon 144 as a daily driver, and it kept going through fuel pumps (Hy-Grade, aftermarket replacement)... always the vacuum-booster side would fail... rarely any other fuel-related problems.

I think you raise a valid point about the difference in fuel formulation from an era when a majority of vehicles were carbureted, and present day, when "everything" is fuel-injected.

I doubt that petro-fuel will be conveniently gone by 2029... too radical a change in too short a time... both for "industry" and for the consumer.

Convenient gasoline will become hideously ( unaffordably ) expensive (read: unattractive to the consumer base) before it becomes "unavailable"...

[Dave@Moon]

Dave,

Back in the late 1980's - early 1990's, before there was ethanated fuel in MD, my Mom was using our 1962 Falcon 144 as a daily driver, and it kept going through fuel pumps (Hy-Grade, aftermarket replacement)... always the vacuum-booster side would fail... rarely any other fuel-related problems......

Convenient gasoline will become hideously ( unaffordably ) expensive (read: unattractive to the consumer base) before it becomes "unavailable"...

I think the vacuum booster on those pumps was just a poor design. I'm pretty sure that booster side had it's own diaphragm, and fuel never came in contact with it.

I agree that the expense of fuel in general will be the eventual endpoint of widely available liquid fuel for automobiles. However in the mean time there are going to be measures to extend the status quo as far as possible by practical means. That;s going to mean E15, E85, E100, and every blend in between. Time will surely pass by many cars' ability to be run on a regular basis.

However just as specialty suppliers are able to sell us ZDDP containing oils and leaded racing fuel, I'm sure there will be specialty stations where (for a price) you can still get some kind of fuel to run an old car for a while. The eventual strain on that market from the expense and limited range it will impart on old cars will eventually cause it to shrink, leaving most places' access to "real" gasoline or even E10 fuels limited to over-the-counter cans. Much like Coleman fuel and white gas are now sold.

The point being is that cars that "need" at least E10 are already universally 4 years old or more according to EPA analysts. As ethanol production ramps up, becomes more efficient and profitable, and makes gains in whatever legal mechanisms are put in place to curb climate change,... just how much longer can we expect to pull into any gas station in any town and fill up a '73 Buick? Yes there will be fuel available for it in Pittsburgh, but when someone is trying to get to Hershey from Indianapolis will they know where to get it in 10 years? 15? 20?

There may be "gas" in 2029, but what will it be?:confused:

Edited October 28, 2010 by Dave@Moon
missing word (see edit history)

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

The point being is that cars that "need" at least E10 are already universally 4 years old or more according to EPA analysts. As ethanol production ramps up, becomes more efficient and profitable, and makes gains in whatever legal mechanisms are put in place to curb climate change,... just how much longer can we expect to pull into any gas station in any town and fill up a '73 Buick? Yes there will be fuel available for it in Pittsburgh, but when someone is trying to get to Hershey from Indianapolis will they know where to get it in 10 years? 15? 20?

There may be "gas" in 2029, but what will it be?:confused:

With all due respect Dave Ethanol production will never become efficient or even make common sense. We are on the verge of a water crisis in almost all portions of this country and given the amount of water it takes along with the energy the distilling process requires to produce one gallon of it there is nothing even remotely practical about ethanol and no matter how much is produced volume will not materially reduce cost, if at all. That logic is about the equivalent of saying "we're loosing 10% on everything we sell, but we'll eventually make it up with volume." If ethanol were economical to produce a 5th of Jack Daniels would be about a buck!

Is it better to have water to drink or is it better to waste it producing a fuel that takes more energy to produce than it yields?

Jim

[Guest De Soto Frank]

"Is it better to have water to drink or is it better to waste it producing a fuel that takes more energy to produce than it yields? "

When big business finds that there is "big money" in "water", they will turn their attention to it, and God help the rest of us...

Who would have thought 20 years ago that folks would actually pay $2-$5 each for a 16oz. bottle of water ?

[MCHinson]

I don't have all of the answers either. I do feel that corn being diverted from food supply to ethanol production is a mistake. My Model A Ford does not seem to mind the ethanol. I know others who have serious issues with their cars with ethanol.

While planning for our upcoming 2011 Southeastern Divisional Tour I decided to see where gasoline without ethanol was available locally. I found that one of our local oil distribution companies actually has an ethanol free gasoline pump island available at their location, which just happens to be conveniently located for our tour.

If you are having troubles with ethanol, you might want to call your local oil distribution company, I am sure that others may have similar ethanol free setups available, even if they are not well publicized.

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

"Is it better to have water to drink or is it better to waste it producing a fuel that takes more energy to produce than it yields? "

When big business finds that there is "big money" in "water", they will turn their attention to it, and God help the rest of us...

Who would have thought 20 years ago that folks would actually pay $2-$5 each for a 16oz. bottle of water ?

Unfortunately "Big Business" and "speculators" have already discovered the water shortage issue. All around the country subterranean water rights are being purchased at alarming rates. Beginning to take on the same aura as the old Western movies with their depiction of conflicts over water.

I guess I'm getting too old to appreciate the logic of buying water in a 16oz. or smaller bottle and paying for it. But have you noticed that public water fountains have all but vanished except within office buildings, manufacturing plants, new car dealerships, churches, and hospitals? We're all being more or less forced to buy beverages, including water, like it or not.

Jim

[MCHinson]

This is interesting...

Energy Secretary Doesn?t See Future for Ethanol, After Billions in Subsidies | CNSnews.com

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

This is interesting...

Energy Secretary Doesn?t See Future for Ethanol, After Billions in Subsidies | CNSnews.com

As if anyone with half good common sense didn't already know the impracticality of ethanol as a replacement for other fuel options. Anytime it takes more energy to produce a fuel product than it can ultimately produce a mental degenerate should be able to figure it out it's the wrong avenue to pursue.

Jim

[keiser31]

As if anyone with half good common sense didn't already know the impracticality of ethanol as a replacement for other fuel options. Anytime it takes more energy to produce a fuel product than it can ultimately produce a mental degenerate should be able to figure it out it's the wrong avenue to pursue.

Jim

Politicians do not think in a "good common sense" way, so they won't know that they are going down the "wrong avenue" unless we tell them. Even after we tell them, they don't listen.

[carbking]

While ethanol isn't exactly harmless to some older gasket types, I do think Jim may be on to something with the injector cleaners and other additives that are also along for the ride these days. In Iowa in the 1980s (where I went to grad school), virtually ALL gasoline was 10% ethanol due to state tax advantages. I believe the only major exception was Chevron, which was a pretty rare gas to find at the time there.

I never noticed anyone having trouble with ethanol in any car, and at the time everything was still carbureted. At that time I was driving a 1960 Ford Falcon, which was then a 20-23 year old car. Over those 3 years I put 35,000 miles on it, ALL on 10% ethanol. The fuel pump did let go after 10,000 miles on Iowa gas, but only on the vacuum booster side. The same carburetor was still on the car, untouched from new, when I sold the car 9 years after leaving Iowa. Ditto for the rebuilt NAPA fuel pump, which ate "only" 25,000 miles worth of the stuff.

And I was hardly alone driving an old car in Iowa in 1980, and the state is hardly littered with the remains of ethanol-murdered cars from the 1980s.

The point is, this was 30+ years ago. While it would be pointless to discuss ethanol's benefits/detriments here (there's not much of an open-minded audience), it is most certainly not a new thing in gasoline. Not by a long shot! If it's doing damage now that it wasn't doing 30 years ago, somebody's perceptions are off.

Dave, there WERE many issues with the ethanol during this time frame, but many did not recognize the cause of the issues.

In your case, there are several reasons why you probably saw few to no issues;

(1) Your car was probably a daily driver. We see far fewer issues with diaphragm accelerator pumps today (your Falcon probably had a Holley with a diaphragm) if the fuel bowl is never allowed to empty. We suggest to all our customers having carburetors with diaphragms to start the vehicle more often.

(2) Your carburetor would have had a brass float. While ethanol will attack the solder on the float; it does so over a long time period. So you would not have had float issues.

(3) No offense meant to your Falcon with this next one; but we see many more driveability issues with high compression, high volumetric efficiency engines. My Ford 6 would burn anything from watered down cut rate gasoline to kerosene in some amounts. Absolutely no slam to the Falcon intended.

We were in business during this period, and we saw lots of issues with states (Iowa wasn't the only one) with the ethanol. The issues aren't new, but there is more understanding of the issues today. Remember all of the problems with neopreme fuel lines, poly-nitrophyll floats, and especially carburetor accelerator pumps. Other states that gave lots of issues early on were Minnesota and Colorado. Today, the garbage we buy here in Missouri is about as bad as it gets. I have had supposedly ethanol resistant floats die in as little as three weeks!

I can show you fuel bowls which are completely eaten through, but in fairness, these were from cars that were rarely driven. The biggest secret is keep the fuel in the bowl, don't allow it to dry out.

We have suggestions for living with the ethanol on our website. I certainly don't like the stuff, and believe eventually it will go away; but in the meantime, we need to attempt to co-exist with it.

Jon.

Edited November 30, 2010 by carbking (see edit history)

[Jim Bollman]

I agree I have not had any real problems with ethanol in my 2006, accept. If it wasn't bad enough that making ethanol from corn was almost break even, I get 5-10% less fuel economy. Thanksgiving trip took 3 tanks of fuel (I don't like to call some of this stuff gas). First tank and last was all interstate driving, out was warmer so if anything should have been better millage. First tank 10% ethanol I got 37mpg, 3rd tank was pure gas (or as pure as it comes these days) 40mpg. I have seen these differences every time I have checked over the last year or so and I keep track of every gallon of fuel that goes in.

[Dave@Moon]

This is interesting...

Energy Secretary Doesn?t See Future for Ethanol, After Billions in Subsidies | CNSnews.com

Gee, the former Conservative News Service distorts the quotes of a scientist, the last sentence of which is an outright lie. Somebody alert the media!:D:D

(CNS now calls itself Cybercast instead of Conservative, but it's still the same group owned and run by the corporately funded "Media Research Institute". Their job is to discredit anybody they can that even talks to moderates or Democrats. You should see the venom they have to spit at moderate Republicans!)

Stephen Chu( Steven Chu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ) is perhaps the leading ethanol proponent on earth. He's also a well-educated, thoughtful scientist with a longer view than any of us could ever hope to have. What he was really talking about was what comes next, replacing ethanol with more advanced fuels made from the same source material.

By way of analogy, this CNS "story" would be like quoting Bob Lutz at GM as saying we're going to have flying cars someday, and then making the leap of logic that he was advocating the abandonment of automobiles in general.

If you want to read a summary of what Secretary Chu said with context, you can read his quotes in real news publications. In this case it's in Politico and The Des Moines Register. You might note that (as far as I can tell from Google and Yahoo news searches) so far these were the only publications (other than CNS) that saw fit to publish these quotes at all, and then they both published this stuff in their blogs only.

Chu: Ethanol not the best biofuel | Des Moines Register Staff Blogs

EPA: More renewable fuels required - Robin Bravender and Darren Samuelsohn - POLITICO.com

There are better things to read than CNS.

[Dave@Moon]

(3) No offense meant to your Falcon with this next one; but we see many more driveability issues with high compression, high volumetric efficiency engines. My Ford 6 would burn anything from watered down cut rate gasoline to kerosene in some amounts. Absolutely no slam to the Falcon intended.

I fail to see how this is insulting the Ford 6 in any way. It was a simple, economy engine.

I left Iowa in 1983. By then 10% "gasahol", as it was known then, had been ubiquitous for 4 years. I was a (quite literally) starving graduate student, and didn't exactly hang out at the local CCCA meetings. However I did attend a number of shows and local swap meets (my car was already 23 years old, but mostly I was a spectator), and never once came across any dissatisfaction with E10 gas.

Of course most of the people there who were in the car hobby were farmers, and were therefore profiting from the ethanol being produced. That may have colored the conversation a bit there.

[MCHinson]

Dave, I simply posted a link that a friend sent me.

I do note that your link also shows the same quote that I found interesting...

Energy Secretary Steven Chu on Monday said that the future of transportation fuels shouldn't involve ethanol, the gasoline additive that historically has received billions of dollars in federal subsidies.

"Ethanol is not an ideal transportation fuel," Chu said during an event hosted by the National Press Club.

It does not matter where it was reported... that is an interesting quote by Chu.

Read more: EPA: More renewable fuels required - Robin Bravender and Darren Samuelsohn - POLITICO.com