No paint, is this HPOF material?

[KRK Sr.]

I purchased an unrestored 1921 Pierce Arrow, Model X-5 , 5 ton truck this Spring. I just looked at the Juging manual and score sheet for the HPOF class and see deductions for Paint, plating, chassis finish etc. leading to a needed score of 65%. Does this mean deduct if replated, repainted and not for missing paint and "rusty"? I am at the crossroads of only original once, can be restored many times? If not here do I show as "do not judge" if I keep it unrestored? Thanks, Karl

[MCHinson]

If it has never been restored, yes, that is a perfect candidate for HPOF. Register it in HPOF and show it!

[Larry Schramm]

Neat truck

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Karl,

As Matt stated, go for it. That is one great historical vehicle which to me is what the AACA is all about for future generations. Beautiful!! Hopefully you will show it in HPOF and allot time to answer questions from spectators.

Don Barlup, VP of National Activities, is well versed in similar trucks of the past. (Hahn, Pullman, and, more just as they were found).

On the side, nice to hear you chime in here.

Best regards,

Peter

Peter.

[novaman]

Shoprat emailed me about your post, As the others here have said, go for it. I personally don't see any reason it shouldn't qualify but on the chance for some reason it doesn't, there is always DPC which to me is better than entering in class judging w/ do not judge on it.

[KRK Sr.]

Thanks to all who replied. I do like the as found condition of this truck and have the complete history of this truck. It's first years were spent working hard for a quarry in the Sinking Springs PA area. The owner then stored the truck in a shed for years after it was taken out of service. The next owner finally bought the truck forty years after he first saw it. The original "drivers" of this truck were still alive and signed the inside of the cab. I would hate to lose those signatures under paint. Current condition: truck rolls, brakes stop, but engine is tight. The cylinders are soaking with Marvel Mystery oil till I get time to remove the head and have a look. Karl

[jan arnett (2)]

real neat. Keep it original

[msmazcol]

Great truck! Get it running and some form of brakes and leave her ALONE.

Not to sway you from AACA but consider joining the ATHS. That truck would be the lust of many a man at one of their shows.

We are members of both and find pro's and cons of each club. The AACA is great for the judging but the ATHS really appreciates the heavy iron.

Real great truck!!

[KRK Sr.]

Since most of us have never seen a Pierce Arrow truck... Thanks to all who have contacted me here and by e-mail about my new toy and give me words of encougagement. The photo I posted does not give you a good idea of just how big everything is on this truck.I now have an owners manual, and would like to share a few specs. with you from this booklet.

Cooling system: 14 gallons (4 cyl engine dual valve)

Gas tank (under the seat): 25 gallons

Rear axle: 7 quarts

engine oil; 17 pints

Trans.: 1 gallon

Warranty: 90 days! and does not cover: Tires, rims, ignition, horn, starter, generators, batteries, and speedometers

From the data plate on frame:

chassis 9300 lbs,

cab 2400 lbs (allowance)

max gross 23000 lbs

A 1927 scale book came with the truck(with dump bed), now gone, empty weight 13,200 pounds! The average weight gross was 29,000 lbs. (just a few ton over the rated 5 ton at 14 mph shown on the frame data plate.

Front and rear wheels measure three feet tall, Truck is 8'6" tall at center of cab, from front bumper to end of frame rail: 19'6" long.

More later. Karl

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Hi Karl,

Greetings from Wilkes-Barre / Scranton !

Another vote for "leave it as-is" !

What a great find !!!!!

I have been hearing about the great show that the ATCA puts-on at Macungie on Father's Day weekend, and hope to get there myself this year - this machine would be a great hit !

Good luck getting it loosened-up !

:cool:

( PS: You ( or someone else) can always make the decision to restore later-on... it'll only be original once... The provenance you have, plus the signatures of men who drove it are part of the charm ! )

Edited May 3, 2010 by De Soto Frank (see edit history)

[Jim Bollman]

I go to Macungie every year, lots of great iron on display. Your right the Pierce Arrow would be a big hit.

[KRK Sr.]

Jim, I have never been to the truck show in Macungie. It sounds like fun. I do not have much time left to get this truck there this year. My goal would be to have a running truck by next Spring. I will shoot for next years Meet. Attached are two more photos that show the big "brakes". The foot brake applies the "clamp" shoes on the drive shaft. Pulling on the hand brake pushes the four brake shoes in the rear axles. I found an after-market brake book that states it takes 84 inches of 6 inch wide by 1/4 inch material to reline them. So each of the four shoes are 21 inches long. The drum is two foot across. This is just backwards of all modern vehicles. Hand brakes on the drive shaft were commen on trucks in the 50's. More later. Karl

[KRK Sr.]

Opps, I posted the wrong photo, here is the rear wheel and drum. 3 ft. across wheel. Looks heavy too! Also note the snow and mud chains, the set was in the tool box. Karl

Edited May 4, 2010 by KRK Sr. (see edit history)

[Shop Rat]

..... Hand brakes on the drive shaft were commen on trucks in the 50's. More later. Karl

That is the kind of emergency brake our 2002 (2001 chassis/2002 coach body) Winnebago Adventurer has. Last year after our trip to Hershey we had to have the emergency brake replaced (NOT cheap to do) as it was barely working. Fast forward to our recent trip to the Hornets Nest Region show and while still in W. Va. we dsicovered that there was a vibration when we let off of the gas. Seems that in making the repair last fall someone didn't properly tighten the bolts,washers and nuts that hold the drive shaft on. :eek: After a two hour wait for road service that never showed up :mad: Bill had to unload the PT Cruiser off of the tow dolly and drive about 30 miles round trip to get the parts needed for the repair.

Moral of the story....make sure if you work on the emergency brake you tighten all parts before going on the road with your "new" truck.

[Restorer32]

Karl, if you intend to DRIVE that truck to Macungie you'd better leave NOW.

[Rick Hoover]

And have your chiropractor waiting at the main gate when you go pulling in!

[KRK Sr.]

All right you two. Truth is, I bet I could find a line of guys who would drive it. Karl

[Rick Hoover]

Hey Karl, get Charlie to drive it to Macungie for you. As I'm sure you already know, it's amazing what you can get him to do for a free Coke.

[Restorer32]

I'd drive it but I sure wouldn't crank start it. Last big truck I cranked, a '28 Autocar with no electric starter believe it or not, broke may arm and cost me 3 days in hospital. You might manage 20 mph on those hard rubber tires but that would be pushing it.

[KRK Sr.]

A little more Pierce truck history stuff; this truck does not have the optional starter! The odometer shows 34,000 miles. ( No speedometer). So someone must of known how to start it. That would be a lot of bone jarring miles even at 15 mph. This engine has dual distributors and 8 plugs. Owners manual says to always start on 8 plugs, then run one set or other or both sets. I have looked at the AACA Libraries index of Pierce literature, and they have the parts book, and salesman guide. I hope to get there Friday to look at this info and get copies. I should be able to give you the horse power etc after I visit the salesman's guide. The only 1921 ad I have seen shows the 5 ton trucks price was $5700!!! that would buy a small farm in 1921. I will get Charlie to crank it...for a coke? Karl

[nearchoclatetown]

If they don't like this truck for HPOf you should drive it over to the judge's house. Then drive it over the judge's house!