Pearl Harbor, still under attack

[Guest imported_MrEarl]

I just want to openly express my opinion that closing the Pearl Harbor Day remembrance posts on both the AACA General Discussion and BCA General Discussion Forums was extreme and unnecessary. Since when can we not use this forum to pay our respect and post our appreciation to those who have given their all in protecting our freedom and our rights, with one of those rights being freedom of speech. After all this is the Antique Automobile Club of AMERICA. While I understand and appreciate the need for moderators to monitor and censor certain non auto related posts, I always thought there was at least appreciation and room for the typical Veterans Day, Memorial Day, Independence Day and Pearl Harbor Day threads. I don’t see where these most recent posts deviated far from posts in the past. In my opinion, the contents of these posts did not warrant total CLOSING of the thread. I think just as much could have been accomplished with a friendly post reminding us to avoid political discussions. At least it wouldn’t have been as upsetting to me as closing the thread was. These type threads always mean a lot to me and I feel certain I am not alone. What’s next? Are the Merry Christmas threads in danger? Perhaps I should have just let this alone, but when it comes to patriotism and love for God and country, I have to say what I feel. If I am wrong and if this is the way this forum is going to be ran, perhaps it is not the forum for me.

[Guest Skyking]

Lamars, unfortunately this is the way the whole countrys going.......you're not alone, I think it stinks!

[Bhigdog]

I'm with you guys........Bob

[dep5]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MrEarl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just want to openly express my opinion that closing the Pearl Harbor Day remembrance posts on both the AACA General Discussion and BCA General Discussion Forums was extreme and unnecessary. </div></div>

I agree, this is disgusting and unAmerican . My father was a WWII Navy vet, he passed in May, I grew up reading his Navy books. I served with the USMC in Viet Nam and was damn lucky to come home. There is nothing political about love of country.

Our overactive board monitor seem to look at puppies and create elephants. dp

[Guest imported_65gs76limited]

i'am with you MrEarl.Enough of this politically correct bulls^!t.

[oldiron]

Lamars/Guys; I couldn't agree with you more. Next they'll take "AMERICA" out of "Antique Automobile Club of America" if we let them. Political correctness has gone just to far. We need to take back our country and our freedom of expression. Again, in realizing that this is an automotive forum, and not a politcal soap box, the rhetoric should be curbed somewhat,but, certainly, to close a thread that speaks of an event that has touched us all, borders on absurdity. A proud vet; oldiron

[old-tank]

Right on Lamar! There was nothing political about the posts, except that here it is not politically correct to be patriotic. I've locked horns with Peter in the past over moving, closing and deleting posts...he is still in charge and I am still here, but for how long...

Willie

[Mark Shaw]

I can see both sides here, but I really don't think we should get too upset about it. I am a Viet Nam era veteran and lots of folks don't want to remember that war.

Maybe we should preface our posts with something about how wer'e glad we have post-war Buicks because our vetrans and allies won WWII!

Otherwise, what would we call the Buick PreWar Division?

Pre-Far-fig-nuten? Pre-Damler? Pre-Mercedes? Pre-Porche?

[tcwilson]

the PC police have gone to far.

[Guest Reatta1]

After some of the recent 'flying of the fur' and subsequent closing of the Misc. Chat section, I've not been prone to commenting on 'off topic' issues. However, I have to side with Lamar. There's picky and then there's 'picky' and I think this one was over the top.

Jim

[50jetback]

I'm with you as well Mr Earl. No matter how PC some people want to be what they can't do is change history. These events and there after effects are a living memory for many of us and it is wrong to try and sweep it under the carpet and make out they never happened.

Incidently Mark, our Pre-war division is 1939 and earlier!!!

[Peter Gariepy]

I have been called to the table on my closing the thread in question from BOTH sides of the table. Here is one private message and my responses:

Peter, I don't understand why the Pearl Harbor Day post had to be closed. It was made in honor of and dedicated to those who fell and died that day. I appreciate the fact that it is not auto related and in your judgement did not belong but I really wish you would reconsider. It would probably not have received many more replys and would have just faded away. But for a post related to patriotism and especially Serb's father to be closed was in my opinion unnecessary and downright unpatriotic.

<hr>RESPONSE #1

Unfortunately these type of posts historically go off the deep end, and then i'll end up deleting it anyway. If i allow this post to continue then where does it stop? Politics? Religion?

I agree, it's simply a way for people to air their patriotism, but it's my job to simply keep the peace.

Peter

<HR>RESPONSE #2

POST A: "Take a poll of today's students and maybe even people up to the age of 35-40, they have no idea what you are talking about."

POST B: "I feel our government should do more in the way of help and support."

POST C: "You are right about our government not supporting the veterans. All you need to do is watch the news to see how our present veterans are getting screwed and forgotten at every turn. They are either forgotten in some crappy little hospital (Walter Reed) in deplorable conditions or they are having to pay back any enlistment bonus they received if they are not able to return to duty."

It's posts like above that made me lock it.

If the post was a simple reminder of Pearl Harbor and to praise the men in harms way i'd have left it alone.

<HR>RESPONSE #3

As to calling me unpatriotic... you have no idea what you are talking about. You don't know me or my history and i wont dignify your judgement of me by defending myself.

<HR>I got a short note from a participant in the thread apologizing.

I got an email from another forum user stating the following: Political thread... I have nothing against the author(s) and nothing against the subject, but what has Pearl Habour to do with Buick?

Bottom line is this is a car forum and simply stating a comment about Pearl Harbor is fine, but when it gets political then it's no longer appropriate.

The use or profanity, personal attacks, and questions of my patriotism obviously don't help.

Don't like the way I run this forum? Great. Then contact the AACA National Directors in charge:

John Walker - VP Internet Communications

P.O. Box X

Waverly, PA 18471

jlwpac@aol.com

Steve Moskowitz - Executive Director

P.O. Box 417

501 W. Governor Rd.

Hershey, PA 17033

aaca1@aaca.org

Regards,

Peter

[1953mack]

Peter,

Please check out what BUICK was manufacturing during the 1943, 1944, and 1945 years. What prompted this? Enough said.

Al Mack

"500 miles West of Flint"

[Peter Gariepy]

FYI:

Someone emailed Roberta Vasalow (Past BCA President) on this issue. This is her email to me:

Hi Peter,

I’ve received a couple of complaints about you closing the Pearl Harbor post, and some of them are talking about not using the forum anymore? What was your reason, as many of these folks are veterans themselves and I don’t really see any reason to cut this short, it was a very important part of USA history, just wondering.

Thanks,

Roberta

The post above is pretty much my email response to her.

Feel free to contact Robert Vaselow at buickracer@comcast.net.

[dep5]

This deleting of posts has struck a pretty raw nerve with me.

I am tired of it. I put a lot of time and effort into helping folks on the AACA boards but this irritates me to the point that I think my efforts here are a waste of time.

dp

[Peter Gariepy]

dep5... look above. the threads were merged. your post was not deleted.

[59 98]

I agree with you 100% Mr. Earl. I could write a whole bunch more about this issue, and related issues, but I will probably be booted for good.

Bottom line, I feel exactly as you do.

Matt

[Guest Reatta1]

[quote

POST C: "You are right about our government not supporting the veterans. All you need to do is watch the news to see how our present veterans are getting screwed and forgotten at every turn. They are either forgotten in some crappy little hospital (Walter Reed) in deplorable conditions or they are having to pay back any enlistment bonus they received if they are not able to return to duty."

In defense of Peter,the above quoted post doesn't exactly qualify as innocent comment about Pearl Harbor and in my opinion not appropriate to the original post. I agree with Peter. If you want to memorialize WWII vets, leave out the present day war's vitriole.

Jim

[BUICK RACER]

Although I understand Peter's concern with the post getting out of hand, that is only a possibility based on the forum members, the main members have followed the rules, the folks that just pop in and out are usually the problem, and that's what Peter is attempting to preclude, I believe, so give it a break, and lets go on with the great Buick Stuff we all enjoy, so much! Roberta

PS Check out my new Avatar, got rid of the '56 I sold last year, replaced with BIG RED, the 2006 GMC Sierra Crew Cab Duramax!AND new pictures of the Racecar, GN and '68 GS Convt 4speed!

[Guest my3buicks]

Exactly why the BCA needs to monitor and have control over it's own forum.

[Guest BJM]

I would just delete those specific posts that fall outside of normal guidelines. Occasionally a post like this helps to clarify what is acceptable and what is not. Peter has sent me at least one (OK, more like 5) PM telling me to stop my tone. The thread went on, I opted out.

I personally think Peter is the best overall moderator I have seen, given the diverse nature of this forum.

I don't think I saw the original post, but some have read my old post about my Uncle Jake that passed away in the Battle of the Bulge. His great work and sacrifice in WWII is the reason I am able to be involved in the hobby today.

[old-tank]

At the bottom of each page is a list of the moderators. BUICK RACER is listed first on the BCA forums. Maybe the modderators should be the ones to moderate the forums. They are most familiar with the tone and individuals.

[Dandy Dave]

<span style="color: #FF0000">A continuation of TODAY.....</span> <span style="color: #000099">And there amoung the fire, smoke, and vast destruction stood one, untouched and unscathed. A strong and proud symbol of American technology. A surviver amoung survivers, witnessing the Japanees Zeros dropping bombs, Watching many of our own in their final hour. Their lives cut short by a planed and deliberate attack!</span>

<span style="color: #FF0000">If only that Beautiful old BUICK could only talk, what a story it would tell.....!!!!</span>

<span style="color: #000099">Read about it in the Bugle, "A Survivor of Pearl Harbor: A.C.Wilsons 1939 Buick, Model 46C."</span>

<span style="color: #FF0000"> I'd say that car is worth its weight in gold just for it's historical value of just being there!</span>

<span style="color: #000099">Thank God for those who serve and continue to be patriotic to this great nation. For we are free because of their sacrifices!</span>

<span style="color: #FF0000">Bring Back FDR! We need a "NEW DEAL" </span>

<span style="color: #000099">Good Day, Dave!</span>

[Bhigdog]

Personally I think the forum is just a bit too "moderated". In fact one could say it's moderated to the point of being boring. Sure it's great for the passing of information but by being over moderated it's just so DRY.

I'm not saying there should be no checks or rules but the forum could be a bit more fun. Or maybe fun isn't allowed either..........Bob

[Dandy Dave]

Yes sir Big Dog, I've been trying to stir up some dust around here with some funny stuff. Some laugh with me, and some, I belive haven't laughed in so many years that they just don't know how. Loosen up that tie and unbutton that stiff neck shirt that's choking you. Ahhh....there now. Ain't that better? You can actully breath.....Get a little oxygen to that brain and feed those funny cells. Huh...... ain't that just amazing. Come on now, let it out...Haa ha....... haaaa....... It works!!! It is a medically proven fact that laughter is good for you. Some laugh with me and some laugh at me. I don't care, as long as your laughing!

I also have hit on some serious subjects and to that I always shoot straight from the hip.

And if I know a challenge is comming, Then I get my preverbal double barrel off of the shelf and I load it in both barrels. That usually sends em with there bags a packin!

I guess I was just plain born in the wrong century. I never did take much stock in "authority" and I always have taken great pride in raising h--l with a phoney snob. In fact , most of the people that know me start cracking up when they see me in action. Yes I do belive some people take some things way too serious somtimes.

We need to be serious when it is necessary. But not when it comes to a hobby such as this. If saving an old car isn't fun then whoever is doing it should take a step back, think about why they are doing it, and get a life doing something that they feel is fun!

Just my two cents worth. High ho.... high ho... it's off to work I go.... Dave!

[Guest Dan Cook]

Very good Dave. I like that.

[Guest imported_MrEarl]

Right off the bat I want to say that I am not bringing this post to the top again to spark any more comments or discussion. I intentionally waited for it to all cool down before reposting. I sincerely do not want to carry this any further so I will respectfully ask that no one respond to this post. If anyone feels I am out of line please send me a personal message. I do want to give my appreciation to all those who spoke up and voiced their opinion. I did not hastily make my initial post without thinking through it and making sure it was needed and was a "battle worth fighting". Honestly it took a little courage for me to do, as I think it did for those who responded. To Peter I want to say I did not mean for my post to be a "personal attack" but did want to get your attention. I also apologize for suggesting that your closing the post was unpatriotic and I understand your being upset that I insinuated that.I know I would certainly not stand for anyone calling me unpatriotic. I do stand by my opinion that there was not sufficient cause for closing the thread and apparently you stand by yours because the last I checked it was still closed. I personally feel that more hurt feelings are caused by deleting some threads and closing others than would ever be felt by folks expressing their thoughts and opinions to each other. I think Willie hit the nail on the head with <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> At the bottom of each page is a list of the moderators. BUICK RACER is listed first on the BCA forums. Maybe the moderators should be the ones to moderate the forums. <span style="font-weight: bold">They are most familiar with the tone and individuals</span>.</div></div> Peter, I think most all of us would agree with that suggestion and hope that you will take it into consideration. I'm not trying to tell you how to do your job or suggesting you don't know how to do it. I think you do a great job...most of the time...

Maybe I'm just an overly sensitive liberal who likes to cut up and have some fun in amongst all the car related stuff.But, if that's what I is then that's what I is. And I ain't going nowhere. I have been looking around over the last week or so and honestly there's not anything out there to beat the good folks on the good ol' Buick Board. So I'm back. And I hope our comrade-in-arms Captain Stevo will soon be able to join us to. So to quote the greatest Buick Spokeswoman there ever was <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">lets go on with the great Buick Stuff we all enjoy </div></div>

after all... aint "Berta always right" ?

[serb]

Amen!

Stevo

[Dandy Dave]

<span style="color: #000066">Their Back</span><span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="color: #006600">.......THEIR BACK.......</span></span><span style="font-size: 20pt"><span style="color: #FF0000">YAHOO........THEIR BACK!!!</span></span>

<span style="font-size: 17pt"><span style="color: #990000">Oh golly Gee, I've miss ya Both!!!</span></span>

<span style="font-size: 17pt"><span style="color: #000099">Mr. Earl and Serb,</span> <span style="color: #FF0000">this forum would not be the same with out you! </span><span style="color: #000099"> Dave!</span></span>

[Guest wayneMP]

Reading some of the "shots" awakens my empathy gene and causes me to ask "what does anything but Buick have to do with Buick"? I am sure there are a zillion websights for any other topic you may wish to discuss.

Sitting back, out of reach, at a keyboard and fireing off missiles at someone is not very productive.

[jrbartlett]

I guess I missed most of the controversy, but wanted to offer an opinion.

As a Vietnam veteran, the son of a Pearl Harbor survivor and an amateur historian of the attack -- but also as an antique car fan -- I believe the AACA message boards should reflect car-related topics only.