To save it I had to drown it in cement

Can we get a "before" a picture???

That's what I call an "engine block".

A Pierce block Barry? Dandy Dave!

Continental S-18 engine in a '32 Ruxton.

What was the reason to do something so drastic? What do you hope to accomplish by doing this?

I'm probably oblivious to the reasons behind this.

Can we get a "before" a picture???

OK, I guess I owe a little explanation. A friend bought a 1932 Ruxton, yes, a '32. It was one of the last 3 built for the receiver when the company went under. The previous owner left it in a Flint garage with water in the block and that cause a crack in the water jacket bottom the length of the block, but the cast iron was too thin to weld. I didn't know that when I offered to get it running.

I was about two minutes away from starting the car. I was filling the radiator as the last item on the checklist. Since the car was to reside in Florida or or SoCal I figured water was good enough to get it there. My goal was to get it running and stopping for him and then put it on a truck to him. I poured in 2, then 4 then 6 gallons of water and couldn't see any in the neck of the radiator. Checked all of the hoses and didn't find anything on the floor. I just figured the capacity was much larger than I thought. As I finished off the 7th jug of water it came pouring out the front and rear main. Everything that went into the water jacket was ending up in the oil pan. D'oh!

There was so much wrong with the car that I had brought in some outside help. Greg is a licensed old-time wrench that lent a lot of experience to the project. I was nearly in tears when I called him as I had about 100 hours in the project at that point. He assured me that he had seen this condition before and that it was fixable. The owner and I both breathed a sigh of relief. However, I didn't know how much work we were getting into.

Greg told me about another Continental engine he had worked on it his grandfather that had a very similar problem. When he told me the solution to the problem was to fill the water jacket with engine cement I thought he was nuts. He told me that big-block Chevy owners use it to block off certain water passages to force more water through the head. It's a ceramic-based cement that, once set, is water proof and actually adds strength and mass to the block. It has the same thermal characteristics as cast iron, so won't separate from it's base.

The water jacket was half-filled with debris. I cleaned it out, but didn't know about the lengthy crack. You can see the marks from how high the debris has built up. I installed a new gasket and readied the rest of the system for filling.

Using a pressure blaster we spent hours shot peening the water jacket after taping off the oil galley. Regular abrasive wouldn't work as we needed to deflect the material off the back wall and onto the backsides of the cylinders to get everything squeaky clean. After cleaning up after that slippery mess we went on to glass beads to remove any traces of oils or rust remaining. Blasting opened up the crack and cleaned it, too. After cleaning the crack was covered with Gorilla Grip duct tape to contain the cement within the crack.

I had a local plastic shop use the chromed water jacket cover as a template to make a 1/4" thick Lexan side cover that matched all 36 holes. I had them install 3 drain tubes that sat right in the center of the lowest lip of the water jacket. 22 of the 36 threaded holes were rusted out, so stainless helicoils were installed. Since the area behind the helicoils was going to be filled I decided that we were going to use stainless studs and stainless acorn nuts instead of chromed bolts.

The water jacket is filled through the water passage holes in the top of the block. This is so that everything gets a coating of the mix before the slurry is drained out. The engine block is leveled front to rear, but is tipped down on the RH side to allow air to exit the holes and coat the top of the chamber. Before draining the block is leveled side to side to make the new cement floor of the water jacket uniform in thickness.

Once we removed the plastic cover it was obvious that a lot of material was trapped behind the cylinders had to be dragged out manually. That made a bit of a mess, but the final results are worth it. Greg's knowledge saved an engine from being melted down as scrap. I was but a bit player and facilitator in this part of the project. I could write a book on what else has needed my attention.

I'll get pictures of it dried on Monday.

This is making more sense now. I was thinking you had filled the entire block with concrete to save it in some unknown process.

I am hoping this worked and you saved this block.

Clever, them yankees.

Not politcal, just in awe of what some folks can do. WOW

I'm curious if this will have an effect on cooling.

Very resourceful. Nice writeup, thanks for sharing.

It presents the same thermal mass as the original iron construction, making up for the mass lost to rust. The only volume that might be lost is the very bottom of the chamber where the material is about 1/2" thick. It has the same thermal characteristics as iron so the heat transfer from the cylinder walls to the coolant should be about the same. These engines don't turn very fast nor get very hot so cooling loss is not all that significant. The water pump is in good shape and the radiator's been boiled clean, so there should be few cooling issues.

Was the engine block unique to Ruxton? I was thinking if it was the same as other straight eight Continental blocks it might be possible to find a replacement?

Where was the crack? Am trying to figure out how the water got from the water jacket to the crankcase when they are several inches apart?

The floor of the water jacket is the ceiling of the oil galley.

A very interesting post. Nice job. Can you give more details on the product you used.

Out of intrest, did you guage the cylinder walls? Were linners ever considerd?

The object was to seal the crack in the water jacket. The treatment of the rest of the surface was secondary so we didn't take any measurements. The biggest advantage I see is in stopping the rusting process by sealing off the iron from oxygen contact.

It's Moroso Engine Cement.

Here's where the cracks are.

Great information, thanks for posting and explaining.

When you say you put tape over the crack, does that mean you put it INSIDE the water chamber, or UNDERNEATH the crack?

Looks like an interesting way to save a block....

Underneath, as we couldn't get behind the cylinders. With the crack cleaned out it was best to fill it with a material that expands and contracts at the same rate.

It dried perfectly, with no cracks.

Nice save !

Cheers,Pat

Darndest thing I've seen or heard in years. And it seems the hotrod guys have used it for years ! Mr. Wolk never fails to amaze and amuse me here. Please keep it coming ! an oldtimer with much to learn yet

Oooo that is nasty. I agree the block was a write off so what do you have to lose?

Amazing, Barry.

Ben

Nice save! I believe I just learned something new myself. I have used gas tank sealer in the past on several old tractors with a minor crack in a non-compression chamber situation, But nothing like this. Cool. :cool: Now that I see better photos, I can see that the chrome cover is on the opposite side as a Pierce/Studebaker engine of the late 20's early 30's. Dandy Dave!

"Now that I see better photos, I can see that the chrome cover is on the opposite side as a Pierce/Studebaker engine of the late 20's early 30's. Dandy Dave! "

Remember the front drive Ruxton has the engine back to front. In a conventional car it would be on the other side.

That took some getting used to.

So the radiator is on the fire wall end like an AC Mack, Or a Renault then??? Oh No! :eek: That's not right either. The Flywheel is on the wrong end! OK. Better Ideas by Ruxton. Looks like a very nice high end car and well worth the save. :cool: Dandy Dave!

https://www.google.com/search?q=1932+ruxton+Images&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7GGLR_enUS491&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=gek6UqeYOJje4AO4x4H4AQ&ved=0CCsQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=799&dpr=1

The radiator sits on top of the transaxle.

Does anyone know if the S-18 Continental is unique to Ruxton?

The radiator sits on top of the transaxle.

Seems to me, if a Ruxton has cooling problems, it'd be because of that rakish but tiny radiator, perched out there above the powertrain. Amazing work. Thanks for sharing.

The radiator is small, but quite thick. From what I understand they run quite cool as they don't attain a vey high rpm.

Barry

This is very cool , especially the price of the product at about $75 ( I know there is a lot of labour as well!)

Do you have an update on the outcome of this procedure?

I have an almost identical issue ( leak and crack not quite so bad but in an identical impossible location ) and was curious what happened after the car was back together and running.

Any issues?

Out of curiosity, if you don't mind me asking some questions:

1) did you consider a lock stitch repair? If you did , why did you rule it out?

2) Looks like you did the procedure in-frame which probably saved a lot of work! What kind of media and equipment did you use for the shot peening? I'm not familiar with shot peening but a quick internet search suggests its a lot different that sand blasting with some equipment out of the reach of most home shops.

How in the heck did you clean up after?

3) Did you leave the pistons and bottom end in or are we just looking at the bare block?

4) I was looking at the web about engine cement and the typical procedure is just to fill the bottom of the water jacket as opposed to coating the entire cavity. The bottom pour is pretty monolithic and I can see it holding fast but aren't you worried about the coating on the cylinders flaking off at some point in time? I can't help but think from a layman's perspective that eventually even a close but different match in coefficient of expansion along with some vibration is eventually going to get the better of the coating.

5) Can Greg give us any idea what kind of cars he has done in the past and how they have held up?

6) do you have any more photos of the process you can share here or PM to me?

Thanks in advance

Brad

We discovered the engine was poorly rebuilt and had a bad cam so the engine's being rebuilt. If you PM me an email address I can put you in touch with Greg.

Interesting thread. I had written off the Moon Continental in my post in the Continental section, but maybe there's hope for it yet. Probably not rare enough to be worth the effort though. Very inventive, but I can't help but wonder if the compression won't eventually push the cement in off the inner cylinder walls though. Good luck with it.

You think the cylinder walls expand with compression??????

No, I think that the cylinder walls expand and contract with heat, but as you have pointed out the cement "should" be expanding and contracting at the same rate. I think that the compression is still pushing against the crack and that it could eventually loosen the concrete from the metal bond.

The crack is between the water jacket and the oil galley. That's how the water ended up in the oil pan. The water system is open to atmosphere and so is the crankcase, so there is no pressure. Not sure what point you're trying to make. This is what the product is made for. Not sure why you're concerned.

The crack is between the water jacket and the oil galley. That's how the water ended up in the oil pan. The water system is open to atmosphere and so is the crankcase, so there is no pressure. Not sure what point you're trying to make. This is what the product is made for. Not sure why you're concerned.

I'm with you Barry. The product is designed to take the stress and expansion/contraction. It is in there and it works. It saved an otherwise doomed motor block. Run with it. Dandy Dave!