carbking

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Everything posted by carbking

  1. It is from a National Service Manual. EDIT: Jeff - just reread your first post. I believe National started as Reed with the wiring diagrams back in the 'teens. There are several manuals from this time, and they didn't start covering carbs until (memory ?) 1930. These are large manuals, and yes, they cover much more than carbs. I have a complete set for sale up to sometime in the 1950's. Jon.
  2. One is all that is required, move it from carb to carb, and back again as necessary. Jon.
  3. Don't know if Oldsmobile covered this in their shop manual or parts manual, but I would suggest trying to locate one or both. All of the information presented to me as a result of this thread, is posted in the thread. I will wish you good luck in your search. Jon.
  4. "Figures don't lie, but liars figure". Quotation attributed to Mark Twain. CFM And to take the comment about liars even further, one company making carburetors wanted a 600 CFM for comparison with a competing brand. When engineering informed sales that since the company historically had not made a 600, new components (throttle shafts, throttle plates, venturii, etc.) would all have to be designed and machined, sales said "no problem, just take a 625 add a new id number, and sell it as a 600! Jon.
  5. I would be interested in learning how rated CFM for efi compares to rated CFM for carburetors. After 60 years of playing with carburetors, the best explanation for carburetor CFM that I have seen was written by Mark Twain! Jon
  6. Carter 2122s was introduced 5 October 1953. Most of the 1954 carburetors were released in August. Jon.
  7. In the for what its worth category: The below applies to downdraft carburetors where the idle mixture control screw meters a mixture of fuel and air. It does NOT apply to those carburetors (such as a Zenith type 23) where the idle mixture screw meters only air. Most carburetors have a range for adjustment of the idle mixture control screws specified by the factory. The method I have used for some 60 years is simple: (1) Look up the range. WHERE? In your service manual (2) Divide the range into three equal parts (3) Set the initial setting of the idle mixture control screws (see below) (4) Turn the throttle positioner screw to give a fast idle (5) Start the engine, and warm to normal operating temperature. (6) Set the idle RPM by backing down the throttle positioner screw. (7) At this point you are going to be very close, PLUS you are going to minimize or eliminate hesitation from a stop from having too rich an idle mixture. Setting the idle mixture screws: I use the following: (A) Divide the idle mixture screw range into 3 equal parts. (B) If the engine is freshly overhauled to about 1500 miles set the screws at two thirds of the range (C) If the engine has 1500 miles or so, and in good to excellent condition, set the screws at one third of the range (D) If the engine is burning oil badly, and you are just trying to prolong the inevitable rebuild, set the screws at the maximum of the range. Example: Lots of carbs use a range from three quarters of a turn to one and one half turns. So the range is three quarters of a turn. Note the beginning of the range is also three quarter of a turn. Each third would then be 1/4 turn So with this example: B above beginning of range 3/4 turn plus 2/3 of the range (2 times 1/4 or 1/2) so the setting would be 1 1/4 turns C above beginning of the range 3/4 of a turn plus 1/3 of the range (1/4 turn) so the setting would be 1 turn. D above the maximum (from our factory range is 1 1/2 turns) so that is what I would use. Caviat: Do not automatically assume that ALL carburetors use this range! A large majority of the carbs 1967 and before used an idle mixture control screw with a large angle and short taper. The example range is much more likely with this type of screw. In 1968, Federal smog emission became effective. To acquire a finer idle mixture setting, the idle mixture screws (for the most part) suddenly were redesigned with a smaller angle and much longer taper. It is not unusual for the range on these screws to be 1 1/2 turn to 3 1/2 turn or even more. Comments: Setting the idle mixture screws out further than the range will have no effect on the mixture above that at the maximum other than in the mind of the adjusting individual. Setting (and leaving this setting) for the highest vacuum will virtually guarantee a hesitation from a stop sign if the vehicle is equipped with an automatic transmission. WHY? Vacuum is measured beneath the throttle valve. The highest vacuum will be acquired when the throttle plate is completely closed (no signal to the idle transition circuit) and 100 percent of the idle fuel is coming through the lower idle port. As there is no air velocity past the throttle plate(s), puddling occurs in the intake manifold. When the throttle is opened to accelerate, the air velocity sweeps the puddles into the cylinders causing a RICH hesitation, followed immediately by a LEAN hesitation because there is no fuel available from the idle transition circuit, and the fuel from the accelerator pump is a few milli-seconds from being available. If you wish to "tweak" from this setting go ahead, but you are going to be very close on pre-1968 vehicles. Multiple carburetor setups (solid linkage) will have a range which is closer to zero as the beginning point of the range. Multiple carburetor setups with progressive linkage - use the factory settings. I really cannot fathom why anyone would consider using progressive linkage on anything but a numbers-matching show car, so no need to discuss trying to make an aftermarket setup work. Jon.
  8. carbking

    1931 SA Carb

    The RT-08 is more closely related to the DRT-08 than to the RJH-08. Jon.
  9. One other thought just occurred to me: Lincoln once used a choke coil that uncoiled exactly opposite from those used by other companies. Possibly some well-meaning unknowing vendor sent one of these "across the sea" and had it reproduced to sell for other makes; or possibly the company doing the reproductions did not understand the function of the part. Jon.
  10. From the link I posted earlier: Operation – integral hot air chokes The integral choke, like the divorced choke, closes due to a coiled bimetallic strip that rotates with temperature change. The coil is located inside the integral choke housing. Also inside the choke housing is a vacuum piston assembly. An internal vacuum source enters the choke housing behind the vacuum piston, and escapes by the choke piston to cause a negative pressure (vacuum) on the entire integral choke housing. As the housing is connected to the hot air choke tube, this negative pressure pulls air heated by the exhaust through the heat tube. This hot air causes the tension of the coil to relax, allowing the vacuum piston (this may be thought of as an internal choke pulloff) to open the choke plate. Adjustment – all except electric chokes and the 1937-38 Delco unit All chokes other than the above may be adjusted as follows: pick a time with the ambient temperature is between 65 and 70 degrees F. (68 degrees F. is the perfect temperature), and adjust the choke such that the choke plate on a cold engine just TOUCHES closed, with zero tension. The choke coil will then compensate for other temperatures If the above doesn't explain the operation to you - 573-392-7378 (9-12, 1-4 Mon-Tues central time). Jon.
  11. The bimetallic coil CLOSES the choke butterfly. The choke butterfly is opened by the internal choke pull-off (a.k.a. vacuum piston). Different chokes opened/closed in the opposite direction. Perhaps some previous owner bought a cheap choke with the coil expanding wrong for your application. Generally, the coil may be removed and reinstalled in the opposite direction. Automatic chokes Jon.
  12. Rochester actually had three different accelerator pump cylinder diameters. Some of the Rochesters have a check ball at the bottom of the pump cylinder, others depend on fuel going through a vertical slot above the pump. I only remember one diameter of check ball. If your old pump was leather, soak it overnight in a light machine oil, such as "3 n 1" or neetsfoot oil or I use Singer sewing machine oil on new ones. Then take a very small screwdriver, and gently work your way around the leather cup, expanding the skirt diameter. Once every 3 or 4 years or so, we run across a Rochester where some previous enterprising owner had bored out the accelerator pump cylinder, increasing its volume, for a performance application. Jon.
  13. Wayne - I guess the answer would depend on what you plan to do with the car. If a numbers-and-components-matching show car that will never be started OR a museum car that will never be started; then clean up the Johnson. Johnson made brass carburetors earlier than years. Reo was one of their customers. Some 40 years ago, I started offering the new agricultural Zenith carburetors IN SOME INSTANCES as replacements for older cars/trucks. One day received a telephone call from a customer with a Reo, who planned only to drive (if he could) his Reo in parades. Sold him one of the Zeniths. Didn't hear from him for about 6 months or so. Received a package from UPS that weighed about 90 pounds. This was when one still had to pay quite a bit extra for anything over 70 pounds. Inside, there were some 15 brass Johnson carburetors, with a note "please give this junk a good home!". He called about a week later, telling me how well the Reo ran on the Zenith compared to what anyone at the Reo convention had ever seen a Reo run. Your decision, but personally, would suggest the Johnson only for looks. Jon.
  14. You need to post more information (or call). There are six different sizes of the Schebler model D. Each size has at least TWO DIFFERENT floats, some more. We make (if you are not in a hurry) rebuilding kits for most; with new floats, fuel valves, air valves, air valve springs, gaskets, etc. Jon.
  15. No, but it IS the holiday season, was trying to be nice, not naughty! Jon
  16. Oldsmobile used a Johnson type R updraft carburetor on the Viking. This is the same type that Packard tried for 4 months in 1929, and then stopped, and went back to Detroit Lubricator. I started playing with carburetors in 1960, and to this date have not seen a complete rebuildable Johnson type R. Jon.
  17. Try this link: http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Automaticchokes.htm The item old-tank is referring to as a choke-pull-off, I refer to as a vacuum piston. Jon.
  18. Mark - parts are pulled and ready to mail. Won't guarantee today (look at the Missouri weather map ) Quote "I hope this old Marvel works after all of this!" End quote When you are playing with a Marvel carburetor, always remember the mechanic's joke that is older than me (73): "You have a Marvel? It will be a MARVEL if it works!" Jon.
  19. Mark - either your zipcode or the invoice number when you ordered the kit is all I need. I can take it from there. I guessed correctly, you put the strainer gasket on the fuel seat. Will send the dashpot gasket and some extra strainer gaskets. These gaskets have been added to the bill-of-material for CS-274. To everyone else: I produce these kits from books that were written before I was born, and occasionally, they are either incorrect, or incomplete (as in this case). If anyone gets a kit from The Carburetor Shop with what appear to be either missing parts, or incorrect parts, please let me know FIRST. Sometimes a part (especially gaskets) is superseded by a part that is somewhat different, but if you think it is wrong, let me know. I may not always agree with you, and I may not have a sample; but I need to have feedback to make any changes. Also, since I make the kits here, I have a bill-of-material for each kit, and will be happy to discuss the contents of the kit BEFORE you place your order. Jon.
  20. Would like to make a comment here: The kit is one of mine, and the bill-of-materials come straight out of the Marvel Master Parts book. There are 4 gaskets listed: (1) flange (mounting) gasket (2) bowl cover gasket (3) insert gasket (4) strainer gasket After reading this thead, I went back and checked ALL (7) issues of the Marvel books that I have, and found the earliest printing also includes a dashpot gasket (omitted in the later printings). I will include this gasket in future kits. Not certain whether it is necessary or not (since it was omitted in later printings), but it is not a problem to include. As to the other gaskets folks seem to think should be in the kit, they are not listed in any of the Marvel specification sheets. However, not a problem including them, but I need a consensus of what fiber washers should be present. It is a toss-up as to which carburetor brand causes me the most embarrassment: Marvel, Schebler, Ensign, or Kingston. EDIT: guessing that the strainer gasket is one of the ones that was used on the fuel inlet log. Would be very easy to include extras of these. Post here what everyone thinks. Jon
  21. So far (there is always tomorrow ), absolutely the DUMBEST trick I have ever pulled in 59 years of working on my own cars was blocking the exhaust crossover on a Pontiac V-8! The ONLY way to get it to run in city traffic without stalling at EVERY stop sign/stop light was to install a carburetor with a manual choke! And mine has a 4-speed stick transmission. I cannot imagine how bad it would be with an automatic. After 30 minutes or so, everything is fine, and it will idle perfectly without choke. Would not consider doing this again on a street engine. But the above is my opinion, others may differ. Jon.
  22. http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Carbshop_lit-Stromberg.htm Jon
  23. The Detroit Lubricator (Stewart) model 25 is an excellent carburetor for its day. The Stromberg MD is an excellent carburetor for its day. The Detroit Lubricator has the advantage of being original. The Stromberg MD is somewhat more user-friendly from a rebuilding standpoint, and parts are somewhat easier to acquire for the MD than the 25. Cannot really go wrong with either. Jon.
  24. The filter you show is a Carter, and was available aftermarket at least post WWII, and possibly before. As far as I am aware, they were aftermarket only, but am not certain of that. That particular one is fairly common; BUT MAKE SURE YOU A BOWL FROM AN IDENTICAL FILTER!!!! Carter had several aftermarket filters. I gave completely up on trying to sell parts for these things, and wholesaled 1/2 a truck load to a gentleman in Florida because of that. Watch Ebay for a complete filter. The key to the correct one is the wire going from top to bottom as in your picture. The one shown by BuickBob is different from yours, and the bowl will not fit. Check out Ebay 323832671374 Jon.
  25. Been using glass bowl fuel filters for more than 50 years. This is the FIRST one I have ever seen where the gasket is at the BOTTOM. So, suggesting, before installing the gasket; make CERTAIN where it goes on the filter you have. Jon.