Thriller

Did you mean to type "stumbling distance"?

Thanks Barney. I'm certain I will be able to get everything I need and worked out. See you soon.

Only because it wasn't intentional and that's not easy to admit for a guy who considers himself something of a punster.

Zinfandel? Just trying to keep in the spirit...'s' is for shine, 'm' for moonshine, 'b' for beer, 'n' for Nordeast, etc....

Hi gang, I've been intermittent on here, so please pardon the interruption. Will someone have repair parts for the pop up headlights in Portland? The passenger side on our '88 is intermittent - sometimes it comes up, sometimes not, sometimes about halfway and is "floppy". I hope that is enough for the knowledgable folks to be able to diagnose and let me know what I need. As we will be there and have space for parts, driving the parts home is much reasonable than shipping. Thanks. I'll try to check back later this week, but a PM confirming someone who will have parts available may be the most reliable method to get the info to me. Take care. See some of you soon!

JD - I know you are planning on moving quickly. What route are you planning on taking and when? Our present plan is leaving Sunday, July 20, heading south to Fargo, then west, spending the first night in western ND, then Coeur D'Alene, ID and pull into Portland on Tuesday.

Greetings. Is anyone from the area or passing through who could pick up some hub caps for me from Hub Cap Express? If not, I'll look into other options. Thanks.

We'll lose Kris on that one for sure.... Whimper...don't think I can make it, but if JD is making the trip, I may need to re-think about heading down for a day or two.

Get up? Mike doesn't get to bed Brian too for that matter I suppose.... Count me in for the long walk across the street...don't know whether any family members will attend. I don't think I'll definitively have anything on until Judges Training in the afternoon...can't see myself being dragged to the BoD meeting just yet.

Crusty and abrupt? Who, me? (brushing off dust from hidey hole) It was an inspiring issue...wish I'd been on the ball, but my '54 was in the Bugle previously with an article written by the previous owner. It did help to get me to get the Century out today and drive it into the city...it made its way onto my National registration now too....

That's a piece of it. For what it's worth, I'm generation X, and I bought my AMX at age 20, and managed to sell it so I could buy the Wildcat. I've owned that car since 1993. Another element here is that this is a male-dominated hobby and in our youth, it is dominated by testosterone...that is, go fast cars. The market for muscle cars has been driven relatively high, so it is more difficult to find entry level quick cars. Thus, some of the youth of the hobby may be lured to other segments, such as the tuners or hot rods or rat rods. I know the local rat rod club has a much younger demographic than the Manitoba Classic & Antique Auto Club, of which I remain one of the youngest members (and I joined there at the end of 1998). Generally, the hobby has had a couple of components - those who have always been in it (i.e. they made it a priority in their youth, or found an affordable car that they could tinker with and personalize and enjoy) and those who join the hobby later in life, once some of the other financial responsibilities have been dealt with. Having noted I bought the Wildcat in 1993, was married in '94, and started having children in '96, the car sat and waited until 2005 for the restoration work to begin. My children, who are now all teenagers (one with a driver's license and one with a learner's permit) have their eyes on at least some of the Buick fleet. The youngest has his eye on a car in the alley that hasn't moved in years - I believe it is a Triumph. Then again, they are being raised in the hobby and are privileged in that I found a Sugar Momma who has financed the hobby. As for jobs / careers and opportunities, they are out there. There is money to be earned, but you can't sit back and just expect it to happen as it did in some previous generations where Dad helped Junior get a job at the plant / mill / dealer / whatever that turned into a career. There are some intriguing statistics out there about how income levels haven't kept pace with inflation though. Compound that with environmental regulations driving up some stuff like chroming and paint and the hobby can be unaffordable for many young folks.

Send the e-mail in. Roy will take care of you, although payment may be desired sooner. I'm late to the party, but it really depends where you sit. If you go for the Driven class and drive there (meeting the qualifications), you will come away with a medallion (about the size of a belt buckle). The awards for 400 point are plaques with a logo specific to the meet - gold, silver, and bronze, depending how the car scores. It may be a bit tougher if you have no experience with BCA judging, but if you go through the basics in the manual linked earlier, you can get an idea of how your car will do. One down side to 400 point is that if you don't score enough to get a bronze award, you will come away from the meet with just the goody bag and whatever souvenirs you purchase. I'm not suggesting that's a bad thing, just that everything depends on what sort of person you are and what your desires are. I was in Vancouver for a whirlwind event on April 12 (was there for a total of about 26 hours).

In general I like the idea of term limits, although determining the logistics of it could be quite a discussion. There are a couple points to ponder. One is that there have been times in most organizations' lives where it has been a struggle simply to find enough people willing to sit on elected / leadership positions for the organization. Imposing term limits could make that a bigger issue. Another issue I've seen, although in much smaller organizations, is without term limits some individuals or a small group stay on and become akin to owners of the organization. It doesn't just become stale, it can become a "my way or the highway" sort of mentality. I would hope in an organization the size of the BCA, that we would always have enough folks stepping up which would alleviate the first issue. It is nice to see some ideas come forth. It is interesting that it is when you see controversy that you tend to see more candidates (polarized on a certain position) and you often get higher voter turnout as a result.

In some respects, you get what you pay for. For the '62 engine, I went to a machine shop that advertised with the local car club. They had it way longer than anticipated, I had to source some of the parts, and when I got it back, it was the wrong colour and the rear main seal leaked like no tomorrow (on the way to the meet in Rochester, it was about a quart per hundred miles). This was the first restoration work I'd had done and was naive to think I could get the car fixed up and roadworthy in 6-8 months to take it to Flint for the 2003 meet. When I complained about the rear main, excuses were made about rope seals. They went out of business a year or two later. I'm not surprised. When taking the car to my current shop, they checked that the rear main seal for the V6 was the same part number as for the 215 Al V8, so we got a neoprene seal and no issues there since. They've fixed a number of things since on that car and have done a lot of work for me. I pay a bit more, but they stand behind their work. This is a third generation shop (4th generation was getting his feet wet a year or two ago). The manager drives a '69 Mustang convertible and his father (80 or 81 and still working on building engines) has a Thunderbird ('57 if I recall correctly). They are working on a truck hot rod project of their own as well essentially from a kit. One thing I've discovered though is that any carb tuning turns out to be rich. The body shop I've used is one of the few remaining ones here that deals with rust and they do great work. For those of you who know my Wildcat, some folks said it was too rusty to restore. Now it is straight and beautiful. No points were lost on it relating to their work.

Jacob, What value is there to put on the enjoyment you will have with the car? What value of the smiles put on your face and on those who see you with it? How many others your age will have a car that cool? Those straight eight engines are smooth and, assuming it has the Dynaflow automatic, won't be a performance car, but doesn't have the jolts of hard shifts. Enjoy the car. The car is already 63. Imagine 37 years from now, while you are still relatively young, being able to own a 100 year old car. How cool is that? What price can you put on that? Besides, the longer you keep it, the more you will have put into it in licensing, insurance, and repairs, the annualized cost of enjoying a nice car is reduced. Take care. Welcome to the forum and the world of Buicks. Based on the price guide posted earlier, you didn't necessarily overpay for the car.

Wow...Winnipeg gets Bugles before Michigan. I got mine a couple days ago.

This is what I get for stepping away from the time spent on the forum. If someone had informed me and I could have arranged storage with Gopher State friends, I think I'd have made a trip. First off, the temperatures Pete was dealing with would have seemed like short sleeve weather with the winter we've had (still lots of snow around here although should be gone relatively soon if weather prognosticators are anywhere near correct). I've purchased a few things from Sue and Ken through the years and will have fond memories. About a 15 hour drive, mostly down I-29 for me. Would have been a fun road trip. Oh well.

Joe - in my opinion, and understanding of the judging system, those should not be point deductions. If that is the case, you have run into a team that is "killing the car" and what we repeatedly hear over and over in the judging school is "don't kill the car". One of the bones I have to pick is the exemption for senior judges to attend the judging school. If you've judged a few times, does that make you an expert who can't learn something new? Are you infallible? What if you get assigned to a different class? I think that is a change we need to address and we need to have judging team captains who follow the guidelines of no more than 10 minutes per car. This would reduce the amount of car killing that goes on in the judging process and would reduce the amount of time judges spend on the show field. It never ceases to amaze me that every year there is a judging team on the show field for hours when they had perhaps 8-10 cars to judge. If they stay under the 10 minutes per car, they would be done in well under two hours and could enjoy the rest of their day. Shoot, if we had fewer judges complaining about being on the show field for hours, we might even attract more judges, which would further lighten the load. Judging would then be short and sweet and more people could spend more time simply admiring the nice Buicks and enjoying their Buick friends. Sorry for the mini-rant and getting somewhat off-topic. I get frustrated by people deciding not to attend as a result of getting ticked off by something that shouldn't happen and is completely preventable. One thing we need to remember and be tolerant of is that we have all sorts of different folks in the club and who may or may not attend meets. For those who attend, they will have different definitions of fun. Some people enjoy prepping their cars for judging and take pride in getting a car to a certain level. Some enjoy the judging process. Some enjoy spectating and chatting with other Buick folks. Some enjoy driving their cars to the meets whether or not it results in an award. Some enjoy the tours. Some enjoy the pre- and post- tours. Regardless of how individuals derive the greatest enjoyment from the meet, it isn't the same for everyone. All should be able to attend, feel welcome, and enjoy themselves.

I'm not sure where my price guides are at the moment, so that is of limited help. Based on other examples in this thread, I suspect this car is not in the $10,000 range. So, I would also concur that an appraisal is not particularly valuable in this case as it may be worth 5-10% of the value of the car. Oklahoma City is not particularly large, nor necessarily have a huge population base in close proximity (not all that certain on my geography). The farther a buyer has to travel to pick up a car, the more the transport will cost them, so they typically factor that into what they are willing to pay. Based on the description, it sounds like it is a functional, fairly nice original car. The reality is that four door cars are not seen to be as collectible as two doors, so there is a significant price differential. I'd suggest looking to see if you can find a local car club and that could help you gauge local interest. Another resource would be if you can find an old-time mechanic who will give you the straight goods. If they happen to sell on consignment as well, that would be a bonus. Good luck.

Ruby is deteriorating...just got back from the body shop today as a matter of fact...the original grill wasn't available so it got a replacement part - still Buick, but different. I honestly don't know whether she'll last that long in our possession. The plan for this year is to have the teenagers prep the Regal for 400 point judging and have the '29 as display only.

OORAH (if not too bold as a non-USMC veteran) JohnD - that is a very valid point. I don't recall what we did last year, but I know sometimes one gets busy at the meet and sort of forgets to eat...at any rate, some have dietary restrictions and some of us simply want to eat healthier than a hot dog. Last I recall hearing about membership numbers, I thought we were over 9,000. Now, my memory may be at fault, but if correct, either we've had a drastic decline, or it has been a long time since we've had an update. Marketing the club is really what would need to happen to increase membership - promoting National, Regional, and local events to not just BCA members, but the public at large. As to the comment about lack of interesting Buicks, you have to keep in mind that everyone has their own tastes. I've heard it in the local club as well that nothing interesting was built since 19xx - I find that a disappointing and somewhat disparaging remark. I know there are some folks who are really into the front wheel drive Regal GS, the last generation Riviera was a great car, and the modern judging will soon include SUVs and vans. Interesting times.

Keith - perhaps you hang out with different folks at the meet than I have, but I can't say that I've seen anyone pounding their chest about a driven award. It is a nice token that acknowledges that some folks would rather drive their Buick to the meet and get some modicum of recognition for that than entering their Buick in the 400 point judging. I will admit that I certainly acted with some pride last year, but that was more about the fact that my daughter drove the Reatta about 1000 miles to get there, not the Reatta itself. The growth in the Driven class shows that it is something that was wanted. It also takes a lot of stress out of the meet as you don't need to worry about getting all the bugs off or whether it will be judged appropriately. I've been on both sides of the 400 point judging and will express my opinion that a lot of the friction created around it surround some of the nitpicking of the judges / judging teams rather than whether or not someone will boast about having driven a Buick to the show. If the judging teams did as instructed in the judging school (5-10 minutes per car and "don't kill the car"), then the entire event would see a general lowering of stress levels. Of course, that is getting a bit off topic. Getting back on topic though, you are suggesting that we eliminate recognition of people showing up having driven a Buick regardless of condition to the meet. I think that would be a mistake. At least today, people can come away with something a bit more for having driven a car there than the member who flew in and registered without a Buick.

That's pretty cool Dave_B. The cowl would imply that it is a 6 cylinder, which definitely makes it a conversion. Man, I've learned some stuff over the years....

Hi Dick, I almost hate to say it (don't want to make MrEarl's job difficult), but that is a very political answer. I can appreciate that you would want to do the will of the membership, but does the entire membership matter if 500 attend the National Meet? Shouldn't the attendees have more pull on an issue that affects them rather than someone who has never attended a National and may never do so? Have members been lost over parking issues? If yes, then I would hope that is of grave concern to the BoD. Of course, the reality is that it is difficult to gauge why members drop off. Perhaps one idea would be to reach out to members who don't renew asking for a brief response as to why. Without knowing the rates of non-renewal, I understand this could get expensive. Of course, it is also possible that some would see it as a friendly gesture of the club and that might be the impetus for a renewal (i.e. they see the club reaching out to them). To someone who isn't committed to the Buick marque and the BCA, perhaps they simply see the club as a magazine subscription...for those, I could see the content of the Bugle mattering more to them and, if they don't express their feelings, they may simply drop off as a result. I think I'm starting to ramble...I've been going about 40 hours now with just a little bit of napping so I'd better stop typing before I say anything too stupid (assuming we haven't already crossed that bridge).

The Old Guy used a word I was planning on - evolution. I wasn't around from the beginning, but I'd put money down that the club isn't the same as it was in 1966 nor are recent national meets the same as the first meets. I think a part of the evolution is the relatively recent creation of some new divisions such as the Pre-War Division. This division was created in part to emphasis touring with the older Buick automobiles. So, when we have the folks who are interested in driving the old iron wanting to park alongside the judged cars, I think there is a validity to the point. One thing is that as the cars and people age, we have fewer with the knowledge of the truly old Buicks. Wouldn't we rather be happier seeing them together rather than a couple pre-1915 (just to pick a year) in one location in the 400 point class and a couple in the display or driven classes? Wouldn't South Bend have had an interesting display if we'd had the pace cars all together? Instead, they were of different judged classes and the driven class, so only a few folks got to see when three or four were parked in close proximity to each other. Yes, Willis makes a good point - if we go this route, then it will need to be evaluated. Isn't just about everything about the National something that should be evaluated for lessons learned and continuing with good ideas that worked well? I'm not sure the parking needs to be singled out necessarily. It shouldn't be about how many Buicks come out in a given class, but how many Buicks in total are on the show field and how many attendees are there. Of course, some allowance needs to be made for location (i.e. east coast meets draw fewer folks from the west coast and vice versa) - distance is a factor for some members. I've said it before - in Bellevue in 2007, we had the cars parked by year. I judged class U, the archival class. I believe we had two teams that year - ours started from the oldest and worked their way up into the '50s or '60s while the other team judged the newer archival cars. Thus we had to traverse the better part of the show field. Big deal. It was fun getting a better opportunity to see the show field before the cars got hidden away. A good judging team captain is going to go out and identify their cars for their team ahead of time too. Now, when it comes to 400 point judging, the classes are smaller in terms of years. When there are 5-10 cars in a class that span perhaps a 10 year era of Buick, how much of an issue will it be if Driven and Display class Buicks are interspersed among them? It isn't like the plan is to allow for a helter-skelter parking arrangement where they could be anywhere on the show field. In my opinion anyone complaining about this from a judging perspective is either raising a red herring, wants to make excuses, or is simply opposed to change. Changing tacks a bit, in South Bend, I had a pretty interesting vehicle there, the 1923 combination passenger and express replica that was in the Display class. I'm betting a lot more people enjoyed it once the judging was over and we drove it over to be with other pre-war Buicks. It attracted attention and a bit of a crowd when Brian started puttering with it. As an owner, I was having fun. My teenaged children were enjoying it. I got to enjoy my Buick and talk with a lot of other folks who could offer me some advice about it or wanted to reminisce or ask questions about it. Frankly, when in the display lot, even I ignored it. I'm certain a lot more people got to enjoy it when it was parked among similar era Buicks. Isn't enjoying the Buicks what this is about? Now to throw a wrench into all this, have the Buicks Our Way Division been consulted on their opinion on this? Modified Buicks add a different element to the mix and I can better see the arguments with their cars both pro and con with parking by year / era. Anyway, I've had my rant for the month now so I should probably click the button that stops me typing any more.