edinmass

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Everything posted by edinmass

  1. Bob, Thanks for you comments. I didn’t want to dump on the car. It is neat. Problem is the TV hype puts too many poor ideas into people’s heads. The TV show is NOT fact, it is show business...........and the car is just a prop for the TV show to make money. As far as what is an interesting Cadillac of the era.......look at this. Best guess is it would sell for 3-5 large.
  2. Ok......I did fifteen minutes of research, and watched the tv clip of the show. I have been able to figure out the car 80 percent, and would need hours of standing next to it to sort out the last 20 percent. First, the data sheet is signed by Sloan and one of the Fisher Brothers. Prototype.........no, not in my opinion. I would call the car something I have seen twice before. A test platform for the Fisher Brothers. And, I am quite sure it evolved for its first 18 months of its life. Early on today I thought it was modified at a later time..........post war. After some time looking at it and chewing on it, I’m fairly certain it was a evolution project........from late 29 to early 31......and since it’s a Fleetwood built body, from Fleetwood Pennsylvania and has later added Detroit Fisher Body parts all over it, and parts from 1929(95 percent) and the rest looks like 1930 & 1931(5 percent) it all adds up to a Fisher Brothers test platform. I have seen two other cars similar to this one that still survive. One a twelve open car and another a sixteen closed car. There are also some LaSalle parts on the subject car. I have some factory notes with dates for in run production trim changes, and the subject car has some rather seldom seen hardware on it. So, after all information and data, photos, and no less than forty five years of working on, driving, and servicing early 30’s Caddies I have come to the following conclusion: Its a hybrid of a stock 1929 Cadillac chassis that had some LaSalle attributes both mechanical and trim. It had a Fleetwood Pennsylvania Body, with non standard for Fleetwood trim when first built. It also had some LaSalle interior details. Along the way, probably in August or September of 1930 it was modified once or twice in Detroit with Fisher Body parts.......and this is typical of the other “Fisher Brothers” test platform cars. It wouldn’t surprise me if the car has had several different factory paint jobs changing colors, as the other “test” cars had color changes. Analysis: While people call it a “Madam X” there isn’t anything that is terribly great or special about the car. The cars proportions are off, and the overall package is not attractive “as built when new”, and it looks a bit better with the “on the road bolt on changes” made as the project evolved. The car is interesting and a fun time capsule, and spending more time in person trying to figure out more details would be a fun experience from a automotive archeology point of view. The platform of a V-8 makes it a minor league curiosity but it is no where near a “major find” or important car in the era of design or engineering. I know most of the major Cadillac collectors from this era and I’m quite sure, they would not be interested in this car for their collection. There just isn’t anything about it that makes it special in a “good” way. It is interesting to see, and the story is at least based in fact.........which makes this car a true “test platform” done by the big boys at GM. Problem is overall this is the worst example of its kind I have ever seen that has survived. There is just not enough “special” items, styling, and chassis changes to make it anything more than a half hearted attempt at figuring things out. On a scale of one to ten, I would rate the car a 3.5 on the interest scale. It doesn’t check “all the boxes”. Looking at it, it doesn’t inspire me, it doesn’t seduce me or draw me in; it doesn’t make me want to look at it more. I don’t think that I “have to have it” when looking at it. It’s flaws far exceed its uniqueness, and all of this adds up to a mundane factory project that is more a historical oddity, and it’s not an important car in the scheme of things. As to value, I wouldn’t pay anywhere near the numbers tossed around in the TV show.......not even close. If I was in love with it, my number would be 30k, and then it’s still too much. If offered to me at 20k right now, I would pass on it. And I wouldn’t bother with the effort of restoring it................OK, now this is where everyone chimes in and dumps on me.......that’s fine. I stand by my analysis. I do wish the best to whoever ends up with the car, and I am sure they will be happy with it. I will be happy for them. The TV show kept pumping it up, and waving the flag that it was the best car in a “great collection of cars”, well take a look at everything else that was there. It was all common run of the mill stuff. I think the most interesting thing is that somehow the car was either sold or given to someone in private hands, and not returned to the factory. If I were the Fisher Brothers, Alfred Sloan, Harley Earl, or any other GM executive, I would have insisted that the car was returned to the factory and scrapped............I wouldn’t have wanted to lose control of the car and let it be out in public. There is nothing about the car to promote or build good will. It was a dead end when it was new. The few words that come to mind are uninspired & poorly executed.
  3. Lots of comments withheld....................
  4. Looks to me like she was ridden hard and put away wet.........just saying........🤫
  5. One in a thousand is much more accurate, I just didn’t want to be negative. BUT, I will admit that mine are correct.......every one, that being said, I still get parked on the side of the road once in a while with a “failure to proceed” issue. My cars NEVER break down!
  6. A better question to ask is...........can I service, tune, and repair a V-12 Caddy myself? And the answer is no, not unless you are very talented with years of experience . The fuel, ignition, and carburetors are very challenging for people who have been working on them for years. They are a HUGE learning curve, and most people can't keep up with them. Same goes for the 16. Even the 8 is way too much for most people. Now, to answer your question, how is the engine overall? It's ok. Certainly not a powerhouse, and I would describe any early 30's 8 or 12 Caddy as adequate but NOT impressive. The 16 when properly sorted and dialed in is very, very nice to drive. Maybe one in fifty of the cars is "done right" all the rest are lacking.
  7. Correct as far as the show goes......yes all BS. I have owned about a dozen of the 30 and 31 V-8 Caddy's, so I will claim some knowledge. Car looks interesting and the dash makes me think it is some type of factory unusual car. Don't think I would use the word prototype. I would check the engine number to the build sheet. Usually the strange cars had three or four pages in the archive, versus the one or two pages usually available. Remember the first rule of car collecting.......it's not real until proven. That goes for the story and the car. The windshield frames look like Ternstedt hardware, and NOT what Fleetwood was using. Also, if it is a 29 or 30 it is a Fleetwood Pa manufactured body, mid 1930 they moved production to Detroit. This is a case where I would like about fifty photos to try and figure out the car. What I see looks 50/50 to me as being correct. My guess from two photos posted is it was modified more than once........not that it means it is not correct. The real story is.........with a 355 V-8 engine in it, sadly it's not worth restoring. I see all three years when looking at the car.......with luck we will get more photos for an accurate description and understanding. PS- Just three years ago, I recieved photos of a car..........that I was sure was a rare one off according to my records, and it appeared in the mid west, restored and driving. I was an instant purchaser at asking price if the car was correct. On about the 40th photo....I spotted it....the "issue" and knew right away the car was a fantastic fake. After an hour on the phone with the seller.......he admitted his father built the car from scratch to the Fleetwood plans in the mid 60's. He was stunned I was able to pick up on a small detail and figure it out. You must NEVER EVER buy with your heart.......always with your eyes, and never let a good deal make you jump too fast...........
  8. You get what you pay for in this world. And 1.00 a mile for hauling a car today is just about impossible. Getting someone safe, responsible, experienced, and a good attitude is very, very difficult. With the crazy weather in the center of the country right now, all bets are off on pick up and delivery if you really care about you car and the shipper. All the big car moving names in the hobby are running at 100 percent. And, by the way, I would only use one of the big name companies. I recently shipped a car for a friend on one of the “big boys” shippers........a very, very, very expensive automobile. The driver didn’t know what the car was, or how to start it. Since he couldn’t drive a stick, I guess it didn’t matter he couldn’t start it. I drove it on the truck, and inside the box. He never bothered to use a chock block while lifting the car up.........I was flabbergasted. It was a surreal experience. They were planning on loading and unloading it several times before it reached its destination. On a 90 year old car that tips the scales at 5800 pounds, I made them change their load, and park the car in the belly to remain there for the entire trip. And I made arrangements for someone to meet the truck to unload it, as the drivers were so incompetent it was beyond belief. Lesson: Just because the company is big and charges a lot, doesn't mean the employees have a clue.............be careful when you ship any car.........
  9. I commented based on the 1931 year as originally posted. Anything Earl built would NOT be considered "normal production" as well as the Fisher Brothers. There was one V-12 One Off Fleetwood Town Car with a Madam X body on it, as I was in my garage for five years. Originally built for a 16 chassis, and placed on a 31 V-12 at the end of the year, best guess was they were just using up all the left over stuff before the new 32 chassis came out and they couldn't be used or sold. Interestingly, there was paperwork that they cast three of the special windshields for this car, and apparently two somehow made it onto cars, the last remained in inventory. Like most high end cars, you have your normal production stuff, the special one off custom order, the semi custom batch orders, and then the "end of year get the junk out of the building before we can't sell it or use it" cars. There was a lot of the end of year get it gone stuff done.
  10. A Madam X would be a V-16, not a series 355A sedan. Go back and look to see if it has tool boxes in the splash pans, then it’s a 1930 if it’s an eight. If it has a single round light on the pan, it’s a V-12. Either way, if it’s not a 16, he paid too much.
  11. You can actually remove the E10 with a filter by passing it through a series of filters. Problem is the danger of transferring fuel, and then getting rid of the alcohol. It’s probably the future for people who run small engines. The landscaping companies will either to upgrade to different equipment, or have their own way to remove the E10.
  12. VP fuels makes great gas........about twenty different blends. For a steamer, I expect one could justify ordering a 55 gallon drum to use exclusively. VP fuel, C-9 has a shelf life of six years............
  13. Modern fuel has lots of stuff in it compared to the 70’s and earlier. Blending stocks, oxygenated additives, injector cleaners, E10......fuel density, heat content, boiling point.........the list is almost endless. In THEORY the E10 should be fine, but in fact it is not. Hot soak, fuel boil under hood, float height, hot start and idle circuits are all affected. There is no simple cure to adjust for E10 and everything else in it. Every car I own and service gets the same treatment that Trimacar got on his..........makes a huge difference. Sadly, 99 percent of the cars aren’t serviced for the new fuel.
  14. The Franklin Trec attendees would be your best bet. Attending the meet would probably give you several options. Not everyone who has cars available are on line. Franklin guys tend to be a different type of owner and collector. You need to get inside the circle.
  15. Transport costs are becoming very, very expensive. Parts cars that are not in your “back yard” become unobtainable due to shipping costs. The last two parts cars we purchased, we politely explained to the people the cars value to us in OUR yard, not theirs. And made an offer accordingly. It worked out over time........but many people still think the old junk in the garage/barn is priceless. Often times today, the fact is, no one will offer anything for it. The parts market has shifted as much as the car market. Many reproduction parts that were available for years are “out of stock” until they get enough orders.....which will probably never happen. Project cars are now parts cars, and so are most of the barn find units. Let’s face it, if you actually do want a project, why not start with a running and driving car.........at least that way it’s complete and you have an idea with what you are dealing with mechanically. As far as moving a car 2000 miles, I would post here in several of the most popular forums, and you may just get lucky to find a haul back for a reasonable price. Fuel, tolls, maintenance, hotels, restaurants,...........it’s staggering the cost of hauling things today. Add in a strong economy and then your going to find unless you can pay the “market rate” for moving it, it’s going to be quite a chore to find someone to do it who is safe, reliable, and affordable. Good luck with the move.......Ed PS- Be sure it has four tires holding air and the wheels are not locked up. Non running cars are often a deal breaker for many people to haul.
  16. There is a lot more changing in the hobby than just the age of the current active people. Do the math...........if the time you spent on your computer/tablet/smart phone was spent in you garage working on your car........It would be finished by now. Disposable income and TIME are the most limiting factors in the hobby today........and time is what’s is really effecting it the most.
  17. What we need is to kill the government subsidies on ethanol.......its a waste of time, money, and resources. Welfare for farmers......who today are mostly huge corporate companies. It’s billions of dollars involved........and the people cashing in don’t want the gravey train to stop.......
  18. Thursday lineup in front of the Gooding tent is free and open to the public. I never said going into the tent.........for that you need a bidders pass.
  19. No, two different cars........just photos that were easy to locate on my hard drive......both found in barns......real barns. You can see the barn is falling apart and has been condemned in the sedan photos, that’s why we got the call on the car. The Coupe was parked in 1954 in a barn northwest of Richmond. The Coupe was saved........we serviced it and put on some thirty year old used tires..........got it running great, and sold it at Hershey all within three months. Really didn’t make that much on it, but the adventure was priceless. The hunt and the kill.........AKA finding it and buying it...........nothing better. I have a bunch more of these that I would like to share, but often, very often, privacy and gentleman’s agreement means I can’t share them. Sometime in the future, I will post a few stories from years gone by on MAJOR LEAGUE cars pulled out of barns, pole barns, garages, and a chicken coupe. The stories just are not quite right for telling yet...........
  20. Not in the seat next to me!😎 As crazy as this sounds, we are very occupied when on the tour...........so I really don’t pay much attention to the best roadside spots. I think your best bet is to walk the line of cars in front of the Gooding tent till 830, and then I would head to Carmel as fast as possible to get a parking spot and watch the cars come into town for lunch. That way you get the best of both worlds. The lineup in the early morning is just the owners, so you can interact with them and get great feedback. The best kept secret of pebble beach is the parking lot for the commercial trucks. I spend 75 percent of my time there. Every car and everyone worth seeing is there. Quite simply the best spot on earth if you like cars........nothing compares to the equestrian lot from Wednesday to Saturday. If you want more details pm me with your phone number. Ed
  21. I don’t claim to be wild.......just a guy with gasoline in his veins trying to have as much fun as possible before my time runs out. And as the song says.......I wish a buck was still silver, and a joint was a bad place to be...........👍
  22. It’s human nature to aspire to a toy that is one or two levels above what we should have. To expect any tangible item to increase in value forever is not realistic, especially if consumption of the product degrades its condition. It took me a long time to learn this lesson when it comes to cars........the hell with everything.....drive it and have fun. Who cares what it’s worth in the end......consume it, enjoy it, show it, drive it. None of us get out of this world alive.........I spend my money on cars, travel, lifestyle, and a bunch of other ridiculous things........I plan to die broke. Bet I have more fun than 99 percent of the entire human race.............if I succeed in doing that, I expect that I will have lived a good and full life. Every year I continue to enjoy the old car hobby, pushing the limits to the best extent that I can. I highly recommend driving a major CCCA Classic in a four wheel slide around a corner on a strange road, hell bent for insanity.........engine screaming, wheels screeching, my trusty side kick laughing and screaming that if I miss a curve we are dead......and me laughing that if it happens we will make the national news.......two axxholes having an outrageous amount of fun in a 90 year old car burning up the roads. That’s how I prefer to live.......drive it like you stole it. As I’m sitting here in a bar in Palm Beach writing this, everyone here is gaga with the actress across the bar from me with a Oscar for best actress...(I have never heard of her, or seen a movie she was in)...me........I’m hitting on the twenty year old waitress and asking her if she wants to go for a ride..........and offering her a spin in a car if we have time. I would have never recognized the actress if she wasn’t pointed out to me. Have fun, enjoy life, the years go by faster than the speed of light. We have one chance to live life.........have fun, do good, be kind, make the world a better place.........and have a hell of a lot of fun before you take a dirt nap. It works for me.....
  23. Or Castroville........the artichoke capital of the world.