GaryP65 Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 So I don't know what happened but here's the scenario: car ran fine, started up with no problems albeit slow turn over. car died while test driving it, turns out the SG needed help. sent SG to Meyers, came back, installed, turns the motor over real fast (faster than before)! now I have gas pouring out of the exhaust pipe at the carb and float bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Speck of dirt stuck under the needle in the seat at the carb, thus fuel flow continuous and the engine drowns? Remove needle and seat, blow out, ensure clean, re-install. Check the float is still floating while in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1935 Dodge Van Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 And sometimes now the alcohol in modern gasoline has destroyed the red ,or black,rubber "needle" on the needle valve and you will have to replace it. Been there,done that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryP65 Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 Sorry. forgot to mention that its a 1925. no rubber on needle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 If it floods only while the engine is running it's the vacuum tank. If it floods until the vacuum tank has run dry it's the float needle in the carburetor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryP65 Posted January 26, 2017 Author Share Posted January 26, 2017 So now that the holidays are over. I headed out the the garage and took the carb apart and cleaned it completely. Unfortunately i am still having the same issue. Car runs fine but when its off and I return after a few hours, there is gas leaking from the float bowl and possibly the bottom gasket (I say possibly because it may be trickling down from the float). The float is good. No leaks. Needle was removed from the rack and cleaned Also, anyone have an idea on how to set the needle in the rack prior to assembly? is there a height or is it just suppose to barely open the valve? I feel I asked this before.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 I think there's a photo of the tooth engagement in the Dodge Brothers Bible. If you need it I'll scan it for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryP65 Posted January 26, 2017 Author Share Posted January 26, 2017 That would be great thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) Just saw your reply. Here it is. Save the image and blow it up on your desktop....... Edited January 27, 2017 by cahartley (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryP65 Posted January 27, 2017 Author Share Posted January 27, 2017 Thank you but I thought you were referring to something more specific. I have the mechanics manual that has this but it doesn't show how high it should be set at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 If the rack and needle are properly engaged you make the additional setting using the thumbscrew. The thumbscrew setting is opposite that of most conventional carburetors. Turning it IN, clockwise, makes it richer so try turning it out a few turns and see if things improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hchris Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 If I`m not mistaken, we are confusing one adjustment with another, the needle and rack adjustment is all about setting correct mixture whilst running. My take on the problem presented, is that fuel is running out of the carb bowl whilst the engine is stationary, if this is the case then the fault lies within the needle and seat in the float bowl, either the needle and seat are worn or the float setting is too high, causing the fuel to continue siphoning from the vac tank with the engine stopped. As I recall, the fix for this is to adjust the float arms in the carb bowl. ps: it could also be a sinking float, if the float has a hole in it, fuel will fill the float and sink to the bottom of the bowl, and then there is no way that the needle can be held closed to stop fuel running into the bowl. To test the float, remove from the carb and drop it into a container of hot water, if there is a hole, the heat will open it up and the float will fill and sink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryP65 Posted January 28, 2017 Author Share Posted January 28, 2017 I thought it was the float as well but I put in a new one last year but did not submerge it, only shook it to hear for gas. I do not think it's the float. How do you adjust the arms? FYI. Just to give you an idea of how I set the metering pin. I set the adjustment screw in the middle of its travel and installed the bell crank arm to the point where I noticed the metering valve just start to open. With the adjustment screw in the middle, I thought I would have enough adjustability. Before all this, I have good range on my choke adjustment. It was able to start well with it pulled out and all the way in once warmed up. Now it starts half way in and doesn't allow for any movement otherwise it won't run well if I move it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hchris Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 First of all you need to get the float setting right as its position obviously affects mixture. Not sure on the "how to" adjust the arms, looking at the schematic I imagine there is a way to adjust the levers at the top of the bowl cover, shouldn't be too hard to find the details with a search on the net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maok Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Vacuum tank or electric fuel pump supplying the fuel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 That float needle valve set up is sure different to what I have ever played with. The image almost looked to be upside down. it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryP65 Posted January 29, 2017 Author Share Posted January 29, 2017 Vacuum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hchris Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 First of all you need to get the float setting right as its position obviously affects mixture. Not sure on the "how to" adjust the arms, looking at the schematic I imagine there is a way to adjust the levers at the top of the bowl cover, shouldn't be too hard to find the details with a search on the net. Have a look at this, it might help you along. http://old-carburetors.com/1927-Dykes/1927-Dykes-030.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryP65 Posted January 29, 2017 Author Share Posted January 29, 2017 I have this article as well. I do now agree that it seems to be a float height issue. Unsure on why as there is nothing wrong with the float itself (took it out and submerged it, all good). I think I need to look at how the float needle sits in the chamber to shut off the supply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 It looks to me like the balance levers rise and push the needle down into the seat. So how do the balance levers "grasp" the needle? Is it just friction? If there were wear on the lever system they may not make strong enough contact to push the needle down into the seat? Also, are the right balance levers in place for the float? if they are too heavy or too short, the float might not be buoyant enough to push the needle down? So it seems to me the job is to carefully examine the float+balance lever+needle+seat system to understand how it works to figure out what is wrong with it and what adjustments are available to, hopefully, rectify the problem(s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayG Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Check the cylindrical part of the balance levers. If they are flat on the top then they are worn and allowing the float to rise a little. I believe that you can flip them if the bottom of the cylinder is still rounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) Jay is correct about the fulcrum levers. The original method of adjusting the float was: (1) use a burette gauge to determine the fuel level in the bowl (2) compare the fuel level in the bowl to the main discharge jet (3) remove the bowl cover (4) remove the fuel valve (5) measure the distance from the collar to the top of the valve (6) remove the solder on the collar (7) reposition the collar (8) resolder the collar (9) repeat 1 through 9 as necessary Being the lazy individual that I am, I came up with an alternate method of simply changing the thickness of the gasket under the fuel valve seat as necessary. I also produced a few fuel valve/collar arrangements with a threaded collar that could be adjusted, and then set in place by a drop of blue loctite. The gasket thickness trick will work. Just make certain there is no groove in the valve and/or no foreign material on the tip of the valve. Jon. Edited January 30, 2017 by carbking (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hchris Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 4 hours ago, carbking said: Jay is correct about the fulcrum levers. The original method of adjusting the float was: (1) use a burette gauge to determine the fuel level in the bowl (2) compare the fuel level in the bowl to the main discharge jet (3) remove the bowl cover (4) remove the fuel valve (5) measure the distance from the collar to the top of the valve (6) remove the solder on the collar (7) reposition the collar (8) resolder the collar (9) repeat 1 through 9 as necessary Being the lazy individual that I am, I came up with an alternate method of simply changing the thickness of the gasket under the fuel valve seat as necessary. I also produced a few fuel valve/collar arrangements with a threaded collar that could be adjusted, and then set in place by a drop of blue loctite. The gasket thickness trick will work. Just make certain there is no groove in the valve and/or no foreign material on the tip of the valve. Jon. So glad you chimed in Jon, I now remember doing the solder thing many moons ago on my Maxwell; washers under the seat would be the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryP65 Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 One thing that gets me is that I removed the needle valve cap and if i push on the needle, it doesn't move. it seems seated in the valve! If the levers were worn (and they are a little - who's isn't?), the needle would move a little and I would be able to shut the valve - correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Does the needle have a smooth taper on the tip or does it have a groove in it? If there is a groove, it might allow a trickle of fuel past it, hence leakage will be noticed when engine is off, even though the needle is apparently seated as you describe above. Check that the needle has a smooth taper and the seat has a fairly sharp edge for it to seat against. Of course they should both be circular in the contact area and the circles should be perpendicular to the shaft of the needle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryP65 Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 Needle has good taper, no grooves. I need to look at the seat. So in looking at the diagram, it looks like the seat unscrews, correct? Is this the 'collar' mentioned above? Also, there is a collar that the weights are attached to on the needle. Is this soldered to the needle? i think i will flip the levers but how are the pins attached? Are they just pressed in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwollam Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Are you sure it is a carb problem and not the vacuum tank? If the float in the vacuum tank is bad it will over fill the tank and gas will be sucked into the engine through the vacuum line directly into the engine. Plugging the vent tube on the vacuum tank will do that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hchris Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 On 1/02/2017 at 2:46 PM, GaryP65 said: Needle has good taper, no grooves. I need to look at the seat. So in looking at the diagram, it looks like the seat unscrews, correct? Is this the 'collar' mentioned above? Also, there is a collar that the weights are attached to on the needle. Is this soldered to the needle? i think i will flip the levers but how are the pins attached? Are they just pressed in? You will note that the "valve seat" screws into the bottom of the bowl, unscrew this and put a thin washer or gasket under the seat and screw it back in again; by doing this you have raised the point at which the needle comes into contact with the seat, effectively lowering the fuel level in the bowl. The other option as suggested is to take out the pivot pins for the balance levers and reinsert the levers up side down; you will probably see wear marks on the small ends of the balance levers, this has the effect of lost leverage on the float which consequently allows the float to rise too far and cause flooding, reversing the position of these levers may solve the problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hchris Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 11 hours ago, dwollam said: Are you sure it is a carb problem and not the vacuum tank? If the float in the vacuum tank is bad it will over fill the tank and gas will be sucked into the engine through the vacuum line directly into the engine. Plugging the vent tube on the vacuum tank will do that too. If you read the original problem, the carb is flooding whilst the engine is not running, that would eliminate the vac tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryP65 Posted February 5, 2017 Author Share Posted February 5, 2017 So I tried the easy fix first and flipped the levers but still getting gas filling the bowl so I tried to raise the valve seat. I didn't have a thin washer so I put a gasket under it. Still filling the bowl. I did notice that after running for some time, gas was coming out of the pipe leading to the engine flooding it. I'm sure two separate issues but somethings up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 (edited) One issue at a time. The carburetor is leaking......why? (1) valve is leaking in the seat (probable) (2) the gasket under the seat is not sealing (possible) (3) the casting is cracked (less likely than winning an argument with the IRS) Eliminate (2) and (3) above by: (1) remove the carburetor (2) remove the seat (3) glue a modern carb steel ball in the orifice on the UNDER side of the seat (you can easily remove it later by using a steel pin through the top) (4) let the glue dry (5) put a new fiber washer of the correct size on the thread of the seat (6) reinstall the seat (7) set the carb on your bench and attach a can of gas sitting as far above the carb as the vacuum tank normally sits to the carburetor fuel inlet (8) it will either leak or it won't If it leaks (I doubt that it will), start with a different carb. If it doesn't leak, remove the seat, remove the check ball and wash out the glue (laquar thinner will probably remove the glue). Acquire some valve lapping compound, and apply the the steel end on the valve. Place the valve in a drill and rotate in the seat. Wash the valve lapping compound from the seat and valve. Wash it again. Do it a third time. Now, put the valve and seat back into the carb, put the bowl cover on the carb, and repeat the leak test. It will either leak or it won't. If it does not leak reinstall on the car, and look for the vacuum tank issue. If it still leaks, acquire and install a new fuel valve assembly! Jon. Edited February 5, 2017 by carbking (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hchris Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 I did notice that after running for some time, gas was coming out of the pipe leading to the engine flooding it. I`m confused by this, are you referring to the pipe between the vac tank to carb ? and this occurs with the engine running ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryP65 Posted February 6, 2017 Author Share Posted February 6, 2017 No, the pipe between the cylinders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 Take the carb off and bench test it where you can better see what's going on. Plug the gas inlet at the bottom and with the cover off pour in some gas from the top while holding down the needle. If gas leaks while you're holding down the needle the guessing games are over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryP65 Posted February 11, 2017 Author Share Posted February 11, 2017 So simply put,; Seat the needle and pour gas in the bowl and see if it pours out of the inlet where the vacuum tank tube attaches.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Pretty much....... If that works put the float and cover back on to verify everything is working together. You'll need a bit of rubber hose and a funnel to mimic actual conditions to properly bench test it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryP65 Posted August 19, 2017 Author Share Posted August 19, 2017 (edited) Hey guys. I've been traveling a lot for work and well, life.... but i want to resurrect this post. So I got a chance to finally get her out and do a small but descent test run (several blocks). Here's what I got but I want to concentrate on just the seemingly flooding issue first; This is a narrative.... Remember, I have ZERO experience driving this era car! Started up fine and quick. Smooth-ish into 1st gear. 2nd gear seemed to make some noise. 3rd gear was much louder. After about 5-10 mins running it died while turning around in a dead end street. Would not start again for at least 10 mins or so. I didn't smell gas but my buddy says he did. One started, scenario repeated itself. So, to sum up: While it is off, I notice that gas is leaking out of the carb bowl after a while. This is with the shut off valve below the vacuum open. While running.... see above! Could the vacuum tank be the issue? Edited August 19, 2017 by GaryP65 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 If it is not the vacuum tank, I would check the coil to see if it heats up and shorts out. Cools off, starts right up. goes a few miles, dies....coil. In my humblest of opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald76 Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 Have a original 1925 dodge carb with carb, float bowl next to it and a vac tank I’m trying to get it running. Cleaned the whole thing going to put back on the engine but gas it to the top of the bowl but doesn’t over flow is that correct? Or is the float level to high? How do you adjust the float? I didn’t see anyway to do it? I have compression reall good spark but can’t get it to run? Any suggestions? Or aftermarket intake and carb I can put on it? Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nearchoclatetown Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 You don't need to change the float level. Only way is to unsolder and resolder, not something that needs done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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