Recourse for buying a wrecked new car???

[imported_48Rdmstr68Skylrk]

Here is what happened. I bought a new Rendezvous last February 2003. It was a dealer demo with 6,500 miles. Car now has 28,500 miles. New Years day I take the car to the car wash and while drying it I notice a crack on the drivers side just above the rear bumper as it wraps around the side of the car. I think it looks like a crack in bondo - but can't be this is a new car. I take it to the dealer and show the body shop mgr. He said he can't do anything under warranty because this car has been damaged and fixed. I tell him I bought this car here new as a dealer demo. He remembers fixing a dealer demo like this one. The salesman swears he knew nothing about the car being repaired. I am furious and said the repair bill should have been kept with the car until it was sold and revealed to the buyer. I asked for and got a copy of the repair bill. It was for $787 - not just a scratch!! The dealership will fix the car at not cost to me and give me a loaner car while mine is in the shop.

My question to you all is, what is my recourse - if any for the loss in value of my "new" car? I can never sell the car as undamaged. I bought the car knowing it was a dealer demo with the 6,500 miles, but I was never informed of the car being damaged and repaired. Should I be happy with the dealer fixing the problem? Am I entitled to compensation from the dealer for loss of value? And what about the mental anguish of finding out my dream car is not the pristine new car I thought it was? Should I sue? Am I being too picky? I'd like some feed back on this before I make a final decision on what to do.

Thanks for your input.

[Dave@Moon]

Hi Tom,

Hope all is well and Broadhead Road is still busy!

I'm not sure that this is the best place to look for legal advice, which is largely what you're looking for here. My best suggestion would be to check with the West Penn AAA and see what they can offer. I seem to remember them having an arbitration service for members with issues like this. There are also PA Lemon Laws in effect which <span style="font-style: italic">may</span> address problems like this. You'll probably be talking with GM's regional manager and working your way up from there.

You <span style="font-style: italic">may</span> be able to get the sale negated if you can make a good case for misrepresentation, however there may be an issue with putting so many miles on the car since the sale. The people at AAA wouild be better at advising you there, but a lawyer would probably be better.

One quick suggestion: get several good photos of the cracked bondo before it is fixed. Also, if you have access to one of those magnet devices that measure paint/fitter depth you can further document the degree of the repair.

Good Luck!

[Guest]

I am one of those "Live And Let Live" guys. If the dealer is willing to fix it I would let them and then drop it. How much value are you really going to lose on a Rendezvous? The car is going to depreciate no matter what.

I think the Dealer should work something out with you if you are that upset. Remember the SALESMAN might not have even been aware of the damage. I also don't think GM is responsible if they delivered an undamaged vehicle to your dealer and then your Dealer damaged it, repaired it and then sold it to you.

If you want some kind of damage settlement you need to prove the value of the damage. Courts here in Texas won't award damages unless you can prove them. How much do you really think you are going to lose? Figure that out and ask the dealer what you can work out.

Good Luck

[66400]

My Dad purchased a new '87 Caprice Classic LS had it for about 6 months and one evening made a rare night time trip. As he was leaving the garage the left front headlight did not come on, so back in the garage and into the other car. The next day he started to check out the headlight and noticed wire hanging loose. More investigation showed the left bumper shock and been pushed in. By the time he fully checked things out it was apparent that the left fender, hood, headlight, header panel and radiator had been replace with the core support and inner fender receiving hammer work.

He had never been informed that the car was wrecked and would not had purchased it if he had been. He later found out that a salesman had wrecked the car when taking it across the street from another lot.

Talking to dealership he was told to leave the car and they would correct repairs to his satisfaction. He replied that he could never be satisfied with it being repaired as it was a new car purchase. Also if they had a quality repair to begin with he would had never know that it was wrecked. They later offered a rebate off the purchase price. Within a couple of months they were offering to take the car back and refund purchase price(spring of 88)but that still would not correct any thing as his trade in was long gone(76 Caprice 40,000 always garaged miles).

By May '88 the dealer order an equivalate '89 Caprice Classic LS to replace the '87 Caprice at no cost to my Dad. When it came in Oct 89 he simply drove the 87 to dealership did the title work and drove the '89 away. The next week the '87 was now a front line used car at the dealership.

My Dad is retired and devoted a lot of time to resolving this in this fashion.

Even with good quality repair work your paint work will eventually age at a different level.

Henry

[Ron Green]

Some dealers would show you the door so in that respect it appears that they are trying to work with you. Chances are the salesmen had no clue this was a damaged vehicle. If you sue the only winner will be the lawyers. As far as this being your dream car its going to go down in value in a few years just like all the other new cars.

I guess the moral of the story would be, before buying any vehicle even if new give it a good check out. Most body shop work especially a dealers is easy to spot.

[imported_48Rdmstr68Skylrk]

Hi Dave - good to hear from you. How is Cincy? What I'm looking for here in this fourm is if other people have had similar experiences and how they handled it. I figured who better to ask for an opinion than a bunch of Buick car guys. I'd like to get a consensus of opinion but ultimately will make my own choice. I have called the customer service center of Buick, the AAA and will be calling the PA state Attorny general office too. I'm in the information gathering stage right now.

Thanks,

[Matt Harwood]

When I was building tuner Corvettes, we had a dealer to whom we would drop ship customer cars for modification--that is, the customer would order his car from his local dealer, but it would be delivered to our dealer, we would pick it up, then ship it to the customer when we were done. One car, from Oregon no less, showed up and the dealer accidently prepped it (usually our cars were not prepped). The kid apparently waxed the car with a tiny pebble in his pad--every single body panel was scratched badly once all was said and done.

Fortunately the dealer admitted his mistake (hard not to, I guess), and told us that he would do whatever it took to make things right. Eventually we repainted the car ourselves (and that was the <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">blackest</span></span> Corvette in the shop--it made the factory black cars look dusty gray!) and billed the dealership for our time and materials. Our customer was happy, we were happy and the dealership, well, though they were about $10K poorer, at least they didn't have to replace an entire Corvette!

In your case, the dealership is willing to make things right by you. Take them up on it. Please don't take this the wrong way, but a Rendezvous probably won't have great resale anyway, and some damage like this, properly repaired, will probably be irrelevant to resale value. You probably won't get a new car out of it because your damages aren't that great. I don't know what the lemon laws are in your state, but in Ohio, this would not apply.

If it were me, I'd let the dealer do their repairs to my satisfaction (and I'm VERY picky), let them kiss my butt for a while with free maintenance and a rebate on my next car, and let it go at that. This isn't a collector car, and when you go to sell it, let the buyer know about the damage and show him that it was repaired correctly and was never a problem while you owned it (that way you don't end up in the dealer's position down the road...). Getting lawyers involved will only make them rich, and will probably end up with you simply getting your car fixed, and now you've burned a bridge with the dealer and everyone's got bad feelings (except the lawyers, who are cashing their checks). Let the dealer be your friend and everything will work out better in the end, I guarantee it.

[NTX5467]

With all due respect, the vehicle you purchased was "used", although it had not been registered to a retail customer during it's life. If you had purchased the vehicle as "new" and found the problem, then it would have been a different situation in some respects, but the fact they are willing to take care of the situation at no cost to you is very good AND tends to prove their intent and desire to satisfy you.

Loss of value? Probably not. Mental anguish? Not sure as you were previously happy with the vehicle until you found something that made you suspicious.

Shady dealings by the dealer? Only your state Attorney General's office could comment on that. I tend to concur that litigation (whether in Small Claims Court or otherwise) would not really solve anything and NOT result in a large enough settlement to make it worth a lawyer's time (from the lawyer's perspective). If the dealership had declined to repair the prior damage (at no charge), you might have a better case, I suspect, but still no massive damagaes or a replacement vehicle. Had you discovered the damage sooner, like in the first 90 days or so of ownership, your bargaining power might have been greater to exchange it for another similar vehicle, but whether or not that might have been an option would be speculation.

In a worst case scenario, the dealership operatives could have taken the orientation of not admitting the whole deal (damage while in demonstrator service) and put the burden of proof on you to prove that you didn't have it repaired elsewhere (after you bought it from them) and wanted them to repair it and make it right when the prior repair did not suit you. Instead, they are taking care of it, which is good.

I suspect the technicality in your situation would be that it was not a "new" unit per se, but a "used" dealer demonstrator unit of the current year model of vehicle and that you were fully aware of its prior demonstrator status, although you are the first registered retail owner.

In the end, it's your decision of whether or not to pursue legal action against the dealership and to seek official legal counsel on the issue. Considering the possible realistic monetary damages that could be obtained versus the cost of doing so might be a valid consideration also.

Everybody likes to sell or trade-in a used vehicle with the tag line "never been wrecked" as a means of getting more money for it--valid situation. But if you decide to later trade-in the vehicle to the same dealership on a zero-miles new vehicle, if they try to degrade the trade-in price due to the prior damage, just tell them the story and be up front with them. As it was all done "in house" back then, I don't suspect they could really make significant decreases in their trade-in offer so it might give you greater bargaining power with them at that time, just make sure you get the best price on the new vehicle at the same time. The other situation is that the amount of the body shop estimate to repair the situation is NOT a very big wreck any more. If it was going to take, say $3000.00 for repairs, that would be for a "minor wreck" (considering the price of labor, paint materials, etc. and could really be termed a "wreck"). It doesn't address the fact the vehicle has been repaired, but might put things into perspective somewhat. If you were selling it to a private party, you could point to the fact the repairs were made at a dealership repair facility instead of a "fly by night" shadetree shop, which should count for something and give the ultimate purchaser a little more piece of mind and hopefully indicate your intent of using only quality repairs on the vehicle instead of otherwise.

I hope this might have helped you, but the decision of what you do is yours.

NTX5467

[Dave@Moon]

In 1976 my Dad (at my soon greatly regretted suggestion) bought a demo '76 Aspen from Baum Blvd. Dodge in Pitsburgh. It was a large, high volume dealership which (I was told) was corporately owned. The car had been damaged during removal from the car carrier at delivery (a chock from the upper deck had bounced off the driver's door). It was a small repair, and very well done. In 6 years time it never showed any wear/deterioration.

The dealership was very up front about the damage and the repair, and (legitimately) offered to sell the car to my Dad for it's normal (advertised in the paper) "demo" price minus 2X the cost of the repair (approximately $300 at that time--about 7% of the car's price). My Dad, who usually makes an all day affair out of these negotiations ), jumped at it. Maybe an arrangement similar to that could be made in this case.

By the way, that Aspen was the very definition of why Lemon Laws were written! To pass PA state inspection it later needed to have it's hood and both front fenders patched due to rust holes. <span style="font-weight: bold">THE CAR WAS [color:\\"red\\"] 9 MONTHS OLD!!!!</span> Before those cars were recalled for such rust Chrysler gave us a new front clip, but [color:\\"purple\\"]<span style="font-weight: bold">we</span> had to install and paint it. (Earl Scheib all the way!)

And that was the <span style="font-weight: bold">LEAST</span> of it's problems!

[Gene Brink]

Tom,

Surprised nobody mentioned this but I wonder if you would want the same body shop repairing something they were not able to initially fix properly. Having them "make it right" may not be possible...

Good luck.

[imported_48Rdmstr68Skylrk]

Yes Gene I have pondered that question of whether to let the same shop fix it. I'm kind of stuck between a rock and hard place. They will fix it at their cost. If I go to another shop, I'm sure I'll have to pay up front, do a lot of extra paper work and leg work to arrange everything. I think my only way to go is to get them to agree up front that the repair order is never closed out. If the thing needs to be fixed again any time while I own the vehicle it gets fixed at no cost.

I have to agree with most of the comments I have received that the damage was not enough to bring any lawyers into the equation. The dealership has been very cooperative so far. But I will take pictures before any work is done.

[Guest Shaffer]

Well, I have another similar reply. A similar thing happened to my aunt and uncle in late 1986, when they traded in their almost new 1986 Cutlass Ciera in on a brand new "facelifted" 1987 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera. 1987 was the year they added the composite headlights to the Ciera and my aunt wanted the newest model. About a week after they had it- they noticed that the bumper on the front passenger side had bubbles and what looked like dirt specks in the paint where it met the fender. Come to find out, that it too had a little fender bender (bumper bender actually) and they did not know it. The car was properly repaired and all was well- or at least that was the last complaining that I heard.

[dennis passan]

a never registered demo sale,is put into it's own class regarding

a dealerships floor plan, with their bank!

i think the "demo" miles are limited to 6, or,7,000 miles before they have to sell it. check your sales agreement paperwork for the mileage statement reading when it was transfered to you!

depending on what the mileage statement says, this might be an interesting piece of information for a question that you can ask your states attorney's office.

and yes! this was a minor repair and they have offered to repair it, but you purchased a new car, and the fact remains that you are the one running around, and it's not a pleasant experience is it!

on the other hand, they know they did a crappy job the first time, and im sure the bodyshop will do a better job this time, do you really want to involve another bodyshop? i don't think so, your running around enough already!

i highly doubt you would ever advance into a dealership/manufacturer/customer arbitration. the manufacturer's preliminary investigation would remove themselves from the situation, determined by the fact that the vehicle was delivered and accepted by the dealership without damage!

Unless it was damaged during delivery!!!!

then, the manufacture may be somewhat involved, but most likely turn over the responsibility to the shipping/trucking company, which is a known fact that happens frequently.

the original delivery document removes the manufacturer from any liability in this case, and your dealership knows this already,that's why they offered to repair it already, they are not stupid!

another fact that happens within a dealership is, when a demo car is damaged by a salesperson, or, manager in sales, service, or parts, or, even by the owner is pretty much a known fact and joked about at the coffee break among everyone in the dealership!

most, or, all dealerships today have computer generated repair orders that are easily retrieved using the cars vehicle I.D.numbers, all they need to do is press a few buttons to review the bodyshop repair order,if it was repaired there, even if it wasn't, they will have paperwork to show who they paid to repair the vehicle.

when small repairs are preformed at bodyshops, you would hope the person doing the job spends most of his time banging the metal out, and forming the metal before applying body filler, it's possible that they didn't properly form the metal first, and slapped too much filler in it...

at this point it seems that getting it repaired, and never deal with them again, might be the best solution, make sure you ask them specific questions regarding how the last repair was done, and discuss what the proper method would be to make this repair last. i know sometime's they cannot replace entire panels, and panel repairs are more in line, but atleast they will know that you are aware of what's going on, and if you have this conversation with their bodyshop technician or even better the bodyshop manager, you might be doing yourself a big favor, and they will stay on top of the way your vehicle is repaired!

also, don't expect too much, but i would be amazed if you were able to get this dealership to

give you an open ticket for this particular repair for the life of the vehicle, you will get the standard repair warranty which could be from the moment you sign the work order as accepted when you pick up the car.

"ask them what type of bodyshop work warranty they have in place"

make sure you ask this before you sign anything and take custody of the repaired vehicle, and don't forget to inspect the car in good lighting before you sign and take the car,im guessing that will be the extent of the dealerships responsibility!

if i had one question to ask a states attorney regarding the responsibilities of this dealership, it would be: can a dealership sell a demo car that has been repaired without fully disclosing that information to the prospective owner?

you might be interested in doing this first now that i think of it, just for your peace of mind, you never know!

you might be blazing a new territory for others.

don't forget to find out if there are limited miles for "DEMO" car sales in your state....

let us know!, make that one phone call!

it wont cost you a dime!

maybe, a quarter though!!!

dennis

[Steve Moskowitz]

I have just skimmed most of these posts and may have missed other people telling you the facts. I was a GM dealer as well as a GM Service Rep for many years. Your situation is not unique.

First of all, the damage disclosure/repair policy is most likely a part of your state dealer code. There probably is a law on the books that covers your problem. However, MOST states do not require a disclosure unless the damage is far greater. In my state it was 3% of the invoice excluding tires, radio and glass. However, we always disclosed the damage, no matter what the cost and asked for the customer to sign the repair order so we were both protected from later misunderstandings.

There are times that glass gets broke, tires stolen and scratches happen on a dealers lot. Also, some times, cars get damaged in transit to the dealership and need repairs. It happens. $800 in repairs today based upon labor rates and material is not a huge repair. The dealer sounds like he is handling it fairly and his only mistake was not making the repair known to you up front. Most likely though, he was under no legal obligation to disclose the damage. Your state's attorney general, bureau of motor vehicles or state dealership association can give you the pertaining laws.

Demos which are un-titled are always considered new cars by most manufacturers and states. The rub comes in that the warranty starts based on the in-service date. All other rebates, warranty, etc. are fully available to the consumer.

[Guest elk93001]

This is more of an "FYI" so I'm not going to make a suggestion as to what recourse one should take. A thought came to mind with the purchasing of demos. Any vehicle could have been bought by another dealer(dealer A), damaged, and subsequently "swapped" to your dealer (dealer . A "swap" is essentially when a dealer does not have particular vehicle in its inventory and seeks to trade one vehicle for another with another dealer. Because the certificate of origin gets transferred from dealer to dealer, it's still a new vehicle and there is no tax in the trade, just the vehicle and certified checks are exchanged. I used to work at a Chrysler garage during summer breaks in college, and I would go on swap runs all over New England and New York all the time. The owner of the dealer always wanted me to go because I had a "good eye" for spotting damage and busting the swap if something seemed fishy. Sometimes swaps would come to us (at night or before closing, mind you) and the vehicle brought to us may be a vehicle we wanted for our inventory, however it was the damaged one from the other dealer's inventory. Dealer principals are essentially making a trade, sight unseen, before the actual trade takes place. There are some shady dealers that would try to pawn off a repaired vehicle for a vehicle that my dealer had and they wanted. Sometimes, when we would go pick up a car, the car would purposely be sitting in the back lot, uncleaned to hide damage (Bells and whistles should go off here...if a dealer makes money selling nice clean cars, why would they keep a dirty one on the back lot?) Swapped vehicles are likely candidates to be put in service as a demo, because there are usually a couple hundred miles put on them when they go from dealer A to dealer B. While this may not apply to your case with the Rendevous, it may apply to others reading this thread, if you check your window sticker (if available) look to see where the vehicle was sold to or delivered to. If it is not your dealer, then it may be a swap that was put into demo service. If the vehicle was sold to your dealer and any damage is found, then they are the ones that damaged the vehicle and they should have repair records for that vehicle.

[NTX5467]

One scenario which has not been mentioned is "repaired plant damage", which would be minor repairs done to the vehicle during it's initial plant "time" or as it went down the assembly line or before it was transferred to the truck transport company's lot. Unfortunately, I've seen some things on new cars that I would not have accepted if I'd been a dealer. Also, I understand the truck transport companys typically have their own body/repair shop for things that happen to the vehicles while they are in their custody--or at least they used to back in the 1970s. I once saw a new Chrysler New Yorker that a dealer refused to accept as the whole exhaust system was not attached, back in about 1974. While some of these situations are probably very rare, it's possible they can still possibly happen.

As has been noted, there are a multitude of scenarios of how the initial damage might have occured--even on a test drive, perhaps--and why it might not have been called to your attention at the time of purchase. Demo units might still be considered "new", but they have many more miles on them than a non-demo "new" vehicle and I perceive that can be an important distinction, plus how the dealership is handling the situation. Perhaps it might be advisable to step back, take a breath, and make a determination of "what is reasonable and prudent" and also if there might have been any wrongful "intent" on the part of the dealership people in the first place.

Your state's Attorney General's office can be a great resource, if you choose to go that direction. That decision is yours.

NTX5467

[Guest Shaffer]

Even when you buy a BRAND NEW - NEVER REGISTERED car, you still do not know what you are buying. I worked for a Oldsmobile dealership a few years ago and(they also sold about 4 other car makes) someone had bought in a nearly new (at the time) late 2000 Oldsmobile Bravada. The car was brought in for body work. The rear bumper cover corner was repainted and the customer was dissatisfied. Back to the paint shop- customer came back- still displeased. Back to the paint shop AGAIN. Again, still displeased. The bodyshop manager got ill and had the exact same peice taken off of another BRAND NEW (at the time) 2000 Bravada- that was the same color. They installed it on the customers car- and they was FINALLY happy. What happened to the missing piece on the other 2000 (NEW) Bravada? You guessed right- that poorly, 5 times painted bumper cover was installed on that BRAND NEW Bravada still setting in the new car lot. I am sure that the buyer of that car was never told that a piece from that car was removed and put on another car and a several times painted cover was placed on their car. I wonder how many times something like this has happened elsewhere? Never know.... Also- I have seen salesman driving around like maniacs in brand new cars, with the window stickers still in the window.

[pweston]

I worked at a Chevy garage while I was finishing up my last two years at high school. (25 years ago) With the demo's we drove, some salesman too, we would demo-strate how fast they would go and stop,. How fast they would go around corners or over things. I know it was not right, but hey we were wash boys and parts runners and kids full of testosterone. Would I buy a demo? Na I don't think so unless I knew the salesperson that drove it.

[Guest Skyking]

In 1961 my parents bought my brother a brand new 61 Impala for graduation, (of course my brother had to make the payments). It was at a local Chevy dealership where the salesman was an old friend of my fathers. This salesman previously worked at a Buick dealer where my father bought Buicks from. Anyway, we picked the Impala up on a friday night. My brother drove it home with my mother. After he dropped my mother off at home he headed out for the night with his friends. When ariving home late at night he throw the keys on the kitchen table and went to bed. My father was sitting there and noticed the keys. They seemed to be worn a little where the brass was showing. The next morning my father got up early, backed the car out of the garage and started checking it further. He noticed that this car was not new........ Wait, it gets better! He drove the car down town to the DMV and was waiting for it to open. He didn't know the registry was closed on saturdays. While he was standing there a guy was walking by and my father asked what time the registry opened. The guy told him they were closed on saturdays. My father seemed very upset and the guy questioned why he was there. My father told him he wanted to find out if this Impala was ever registered. Now this is a true story.......the guy looked at the car and told my father that the car was his Demo from Mulray Chevrolet, a different dealer from where we purchased it from. The guy told my father it had 5000 miles on it. Too make a long story short, the salesman, (my fathers friend) claimed he knew nothing about it being a demo. The dealer made good and found my father a brand new one. My father was always an easy going guy. Now my brother & I sometimes think about this and regret not demanding a new Corvette instead... We were young and dumb.

[imported_48Rdmstr68Skylrk]

Just to update everyone on where I am with this problem. I tried calling the State Attorney General office in Harrisburg (PA state capitol) and they gave me the phone number to call the Pittsburgh local office. I called the local office and got the "computer answering merry-go-round machine". Never could get to talk to a real person - had to leave my name and address/phone for them to send me a brochure on the lemon laws. Their computer menu of items to select did not include what I needed to talk about - I hate those !#@$!$ answering machines!!! I hope this stupid brochure includes the info to answer my question "What are the disclosure requirements for a car dealer when selling a damaged new car?" On Monday I'll try calling the State office again.

I tried looking up on NADA web site for any legal topics - but I think they have that stuff in the section where you have to be a member to access it. So no luck there either.

I did submit a report to Buick via the My GM web page I set up with them when I first bought my car. They have responded looking for some detailed info like milage, Dealer name, purchased new or used - stuff like that. They responded they will contact me shortly.

I also tried for a short while on the PA State web site to find anything in the law books, but it was taking too much time and I was at my office and needed to get back to work. I am actually at work on a Sat. morning working overtime and still don't have thie time to do the research I want and need to do.

Any help from you guys out there - especially those who live in PA who could help research this question who be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

[Guest Skyking]

Tom, it seems your batting your head against a wall....the dealer said he'll fix it, go for it...man, life's too f%&$#ing short......

[imported_48Rdmstr68Skylrk]

Thanks for your post Steve. You mentioned that your state disclosure amount was for a far greater amount of damage and the amount was 3% of invoice. In round numbers, this Rendezvous was $36,000 and 3% of that is $1,080. That is not a lot of damage in todays world. With my damage at $787 I do fall below that 3%,(not by much) but for others who are reading this thread this rule of thumb is something to keep in mind. I'm still trying to find what the law is in PA, even though "Skyking" thinks I'm nuts for doing so. I already indicated that because the amound was relativly low, I am going to have the dealer fix it and drop the subject with the dealer. But, I am of the mind that when I have a question that remains unanswered, I research it until I find an answer. Guess it was the way I was brought up - never give up until you know what you want to know. I don't like to live life with blinders on. I also enjoy sharing my experiences and knowledge with others.

[Dave@Moon]

Tom,

Not that I can't make a good guess by proximity to your house, but which dealer sold this car to you?

[brad54]

I'm weighing in kinda late, but...

It seems to me that a good repair wouldn't have been detectable. A little dent in the parking lot isn't uncommon--in fact, many dealers now employ the "Paintless Dent Removal" guys (which work Dern well! I've seen it first hand). It seems to take more than a little bump to dent and need a repaint these days (I know, I just rolled my Dodge Dakota down my driveway in into my shop wall--truck's fine, wall wiped out).

If I was told up front the car was repainted, I'd have declined on that vehicle, and taken the next demo to come along. For me, that's what it boils down to--it's a lie by ommision. They're trying to make it right, but that's because they got caught, and only because they got caught.

You can't sell someone damaged goods and not tell them about it.

Also, talk to your insurance agent about it--the car has been damaged and repaired (if the bondo is thick enough to crack, it's a bad repair), while your insurance agent has insured it as a new vehicle. In a worst case scenerio, they can say the car has been repaired already, and is worth less.

I'd continue raising a stink, and wouldn't let the dealership skate on it.

-Brad

[imported_48Rdmstr68Skylrk]

Dave,

I don't know if it is appropriate to name names here in this fourm. I'll just say they are about 1 hour north of Pittsburgh.

[old-tank]

When we buy a used car we inspect it closely or have a shop inspect it and maybe even search the vehicle history for previous repairs. But a new car, well it is NEW right? Car dealers are the modern equivalent of old time horse traders...they generally will not lie to you if you ask a specific question, but will not volunteer information. In your case if you had asked if the car had been repaired they would have said yes and you probably would not have bought that unit. It is a sad state when you have to ask all the same questions and do all of the same inspections you do on a used car, but i'll do from now on.

In 1976 I bought my first new car an Olds Delta Royale. It was a time if great excitement and I too was blinded by the glitter. I custom ordered this car and when I inquired on the anticipated delivery date, I was told it had arrived but had a 'little' transit damage. When I had it repainted a few years ago it showed extensive repairs to the roof. including plastic filler and welding with brass...sort of explains the leaks at the C-pillar. Then when I replaced the upholstry I found broken glass under the rear seat. Probably had another car fall on it! I would not have bought if I had known about the damage.

A local Buick dealer sold a 99 LeSabre to my father (he bought with out my inspection). The car had poorly repaired front end damage and even though it showed only 30k miles it appeared to be beat to death...all of the struts were shot, the tires were chewed from driving on gravel roads and the newly changed oil was already dirty. I called the dealer and he said "well people trade these things in and don't tell us about accident repair"....I would bet that if I tried to trade in this vehicle on a new car they would spot the damage! Oh well, another day and another name to add to my list of people who [censored] me off.

Willie

[imported_48Rdmstr68Skylrk]

Here is an update on this story for any of you who are still following it.

I received a phone call from the salesman gentleman who sold me my Rendezvous. He was acknowledging that the dealership has been contacted by the Buick Customer relations group. He indicated to me that the PA state law covering damage disclosure has a threshold of $1000. Since the damage to my Rendezvous was $787, the dealer chose not to disclose the repair. I suggested they reconsider that decision in the future so that problems like this would not happen again. I asked what guarantee I have that the repair will not fail again with in one years time like it did this time. I stated I should not have to pay to keep fixing a car that was sold to me as new, and that any future repairs should be covered by the Buick dealership. Matt indicated that the dealership would cover any future repairs if needed. In addition to repairing the damage at their cost, he offered to apply a Teflon paint sealant as a way to regain my confidence in their dealership. He indicated that it was not an admission of any wrong doing, but an offer of friendship. The sealant would have to wait 60 days to be applied to permit the fresh paint to cure. I accepted this offer of friendship and dropped my Rendezvous off at the dealership on Jan 19, 2004 for the needed repairs. I will return in late March for the paint sealant.