Arty Condito Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 Please let me know if you might have any info on this body style car I just bought. I looked on line and found nothing about it. Thanks Arty 575-4300-7349 , artydollar@yahoo.com 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 (edited) Arty: Those close-coupled two-door tourings were known as a Chummy, various makers offered the style in the WWI years. It was something of a cross between a five-passenger touring and a rumble-seat roadster. Interesting, rare car. Steve Addendum correction: Cloverleaf roadster. Edited July 22 by 58L-Y8 addendum comments (see edit history) 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Bond Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 I've always thought "chummy" was a term more commonly used in Britain. I believe the body style is known as "cloverleaf." Perhaps it's just the photograph but it looks like there is a problem with alignment on the top bows? I've not seen one raked back like that before. it's a great car tough and certainly not a common one. Original Chandler sales literature may show this body. Check with the AACA Library and Research Center to see what they have. Terry 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akstraw Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 I too have seen this style body referred to as a "Cloverleaf Roadster" in the USA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29 Chandler Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 That sure looks like a 1917-1918 Model 18 Four Passenger Roadster. The term "Chummy" was not introduced into the Chandler line up until 1924. This car clearly has the lines of a Model 18. Do you have the car's serial number? We can confirm more from that. Please share more pictures this is a car we have not seen and might be the only one of its model left. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29 Chandler Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 8 minutes ago, Terry Bond said: I've always thought "chummy" was a term more commonly used in Britain. I believe the body style is known as "cloverleaf." Perhaps it's just the photograph but it looks like there is a problem with alignment on the top bows? I've not seen one raked back like that before. it's a great car tough and certainly not a common one. Original Chandler sales literature may show this body. Check with the AACA Library and Research Center to see what they have. Terry How's this Terry from the 1917-1918 Chandler literature. 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Bond Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 1 minute ago, 29 Chandler said: How's this Terry from the 1917-1918 Chandler literature. Perfect! good to see a photo of the top in its proper position too. Terry 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrspeedyt Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 (edited) the close fish eye camera lens distort the look of the top... especially with the camera angle and the misplaced floorboard. but i do like this style! too bad ford didn't copy it. Edited July 22 by mrspeedyt (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arty Condito Posted July 22 Author Share Posted July 22 Thanks so much for all the responses. The top was installed incorrectly. The radiator shell is all brass also the head lamp rings and windshield frame and magneto, it has a starter but i don't see a generator, makes me think 1915 maybe correct or else I believe these parts would have been painted? This is the serial number 8719 model 16. The title says 1915, any documentation on Chandler serial numbers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Layden B Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 I believe a true Cloverleaf only has one door. The entry pattern as seen from above would be like a 4 leaf clover, entry as the stem and branch out to the 4 leaves ( seats). Calling this a "Cloverleaf Roadster" would account for the drivers door. Chandler came with starter and generator starting in 1914. The system could be either Westinghouse or Gray & Davis. They were 2 unit systems so there should be a generator. Trim was probably originally painted to be cutting edge modern at that time. Along the way someone liked it better stripped of the paint to look older to their eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29 Chandler Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 I just spoke to Arty we are going to figure this one out. My best guess right now is a 1915 Model 16 frame with a 1917-1918 Model 18 body on it. more to come. Arty welcome to the Chandler community! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldcarfudd Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 It's possible that the starter is also a generator. Not uncommon in those days. I once had a 1916 Briscoe that had a starter-generator. The 12-volt (6-cell) battery was split in the middle and had four posts with four battery cables. The two halves were normally connected in parallel and the generator charged them together at 6 volts. Stepping on the starter reconnected the two halves in series, and the generator acted as a starter and spun the engine at 12 volts. Sometimes it worked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29 Chandler Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 We’ve confirmed that the drivetrain and frame are from 1915 which puts the starter under the engine pan. Which indeed is where it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Layden B Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 Maybe this will help. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arty Condito Posted July 23 Author Share Posted July 23 Chris the editor of the Chandler club articles has found that it is a late 1915 Four Passenger Roadster, first year debut 1915 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29 Chandler Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 3 hours ago, Arty Condito said: Chris the editor of the Chandler club articles has found that it is a late 1915 Four Passenger Roadster, first year debut 1915 This one confused me a bit as the 4 passenger roadster was introduced in mid year. So reading the factory brochures and ads of the period did not list the model on the available body types. The pictures above are sourced from period periodicals that covered the mid year changes. During this period of automobile development the manufactures just could not stand still. They were constantly innovating and introducing new options to the public. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 Nice! And rather rare, much more so than most cars that word is used on. "Cloverleaf roadsters" were offered by quite a number of automakers in the mid to late 1910s. They did not sell in large numbers, and survival of them seems much lower than the more common roadsters and touring cars. I have seen a few of them over the years, and had a few friends that did own one make or another. A very good friend has a 1917 Auburn cloverleaf roadster. An incredible looking car! Driven on tours often. As a late 1915 year car, it would qualify for the HCCA, and be quite a fine car for HCCA tours which are quite popular. Well worth being restored still. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibarlaw Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 Unfortunately it has what appears to be a later 1920s 5 passenger touring car top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 (edited) 8 hours ago, dibarlaw said: Unfortunately it has what appears to be a later 1920s 5 passenger touring car top. That was one of the first things I noticed about the car when I first looked at the photos. Like happened so often through the decades, the original top may have been removed for some reason and lost. A later owner wanting to use the car as an "antique" picked up some old touring car top and without any serious research or knowledge had some local "trimmer" that knew even less about the car shove the sockets and bows on there and fit a top. It came out worse than most such efforts because apparently without any effort at engineering or actual design, on a very unusual body style requiring a properly fitting top? The whatever small touring car top just did not fit on the fairly large but short coupled cloverleaf body style. So now the car is right back where it was half a century ago with basically no top. Someone with some knowledge and understanding of cars of the era needs to get some parts of tops, of appropriate types and style. What is there may even be just right as parts? Then using whatever photos are available of the Chandler cloverleaf roadster, as well as a few other similar cars of the era as additional references, using the car's original body to top mounting brackets as anchor points to work from. Design and build an entirely new top framework by cutting, welding, altering, fitting , the key pieces from unknown other tops. New bows (the wood part!) will most likely need to be made to properly fit the width. Both sides will have to be made to exactly match each other, and tested for functionality, before making or fitting the wooden bows. The entire assembly (including the bows) will have to be carefully sized and fitted to the original body anchors. Every detail of sizing and fitting, design, and appearance, will need to checked, and rechecked, adjusted, and checked again, and then again and again, until it looks and measures, and functions, just right, before you can have a trimmer that understands the antique automobile era tops can begin making the material top for it. It may be possible to slightly alter the top on the car and refit it to work well enough? But it isn't right. The original pictured in the era articles has a common point attaching to the body, whereas the top on the car has the second bow from the rear attaching midway on the first bow. That top assembly is way to long for the cloverleaf body. It might be "possible" to alter and shorten the top and maybe even make it function well enough? But again, it would not be right that way. It really isn't all that difficult to do it right. Because I couldn't afford to buy a genuine 1915 model T runabout top for my car? (Anybody that knew what they had wanted a lot more money than I could afford to spend for them! Supply versus demand.) I made my top sockets myself out of remnants of other top sockets I had had for years. As for some of the other advice I spelled out? Often when I could (which used to be often), I would hang around, visit with, and even help out friend's restoration shops. I have watched and even hands on helped occasionally with the recreation of fops for touring cars that had lost theirs. Been there, seen that, done that. It can be done, and done right. Edited July 24 by wayne sheldon Stupid computer! I did not tell it to quote that twice! (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arty Condito Posted July 25 Author Share Posted July 25 Thank you, guys, for all the comments and help. The top is on my list I'm pretty good at fabrication and upholstery and don't think I will have a problem at correcting the Irons. Thanks again 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now