m-mman Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 The last production 1934 Pierce? OK, I dont know if that is worth much. Body style is nice, but the all leather interior is a turn off for me. (cloth = prewar luxury) The colors tell us when it was restored. At least they left off the orange. Typically few photos, no engine shots. Ed can probably give us the full story. https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/787445170158517/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A8eae6f05-7eda-48fe-87d3-a152413495b6 Year: 1934 Make: Pierce-Arrow Model: 836A VIN: 1080938 Engine: Straight 8, 366 CI Horsepower: 135 HP Transmission: 3 Speed Floor Shift Wheelbase: 136" Weight: 4,940 lbs MSRP (in 1935): $2,795 = $64,545.80 according to CPI inflation calculator Listed Price: $54,000 Facebook did not have a Manufacturer option for Pierce Arrow, Rolls Royce was an arbitrary choice. - A beautiful Full CCCA Classic - The final 1934 Pierce-Arrow 836-A to roll off the production line - One of only 330 built with the vented hood - All Original Example - Kelsey-Hayes Wire Wheels - Dual Side Mounted Spares This example is an incredibly rare and sought-after 1934 Pierce-Arrow 836-A Sedan, the very last 836-A to be built in 1934 as confirmed by the Pierce-Arrow Society. This beautiful car has many desirable features, including Kelsey-Hayes wires wheels with dual side-mounted spares, Arvin heater, and is but one of only 330 to be built with the much-desired vented hood. This classic automobile has been very well preserved, and runs and drives beautifully. It could be enjoyed immediately with great satisfaction as it is, or could easily be taken to the next level with cosmetic updating to make it a true show car. It is among the rarest of pre-war automobiles you are likely to find anywhere, and the fact that it is the very last model 836-A Sedan to be produced for the 1934 model year is a distinction that cannot be claimed by any other Pierce-Arrow on earth. As was the case in the early days of registrations, this year-end 1934 model is actually titled as a 1935, but the serial number clearly states it is a 1934. Previous and current ownership has kept this vehicle indoors and in good running condition. Previously housed in Wyoming this 836A now resides in Arizona and is stored in a climate-controlled facility designed for classic auto storage. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 Why is the driver's side door handle pointing straight at the ground? Crooked door handles would drive my dad insane. Usually it is not a tough fix. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 I have seen this car before……….836A cars are not particularly persued by established Pierce collectors…..short chassis, and a bunch of strange minor downgrades. Mechanicaly similar but still different. The short wheelbase makes it very cramped. It was another attempt at building a less expensive model. 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjmarzoli Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 The base for the hood ornament can't decide if it wants to be chrome or painted. Either way not a good sign for the quality of the restoration. Can't believe the interior was done close to correctly either. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 I think that's a good-looking car. The interior isn't correct but it isn't a travesty like so many others. A set of dark red wheels with a matching pinstripe and it would look fantastic. And it's still a Pierce-Arrow club sedan, down-market version or not. I'm not going to crap on the car, I like it. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said: Matt……look close at the rear door, it’s so tiny a 12 year old can’t fit through it. The car is extremely difficult to get in and out of. Edited June 30 by edinmass (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 I don't disagree, Ed, although that rear entrance doesn't look any smaller than, say, a '41 Cadillac 60S. For the majority of the time that I don't use my back seat, I think I could live with it. I will defer to your expertise here, but I still like the looks of that car and think it could be amazing with a few changes. I just ran across these photos on Facebook as a regular post with the same claims of it being the last 1934 Pierce-Arrow built. It has to be the same car, although the interior is cloth. Could those simply be seat covers (even though it covers the seat structure as well as the cushions)? Looks like a Daniel Schmitt plate on it in these photos, I wonder how old they are...? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 (edited) I find it a stretch to claim that this car was the last 836A built--all the Pierce-Arrow records were destroyed, tossed in the furnace, when the company was liquidated in May 1938. It is legitimate to say that this is the highest serial number 836A registered with or known to the Pierce-Arrow Society (PAS) since 1957. Our records also reflect the engine number 240924 (highest known-to-PAS 836A engine number) and body number 135-S-559 (highest known-to-PAS 836A **sedan** body number). If I were wearing my snark hat today, I'd say this claim is akin to claiming the last Yugo ever built. The 836A was a failed attempt to build a medium-price Pierce in the depression. The 836A used the earlier 366 cid solid-lifter engine, a very good one, and a 3" shorter wheelbase when the larger 840A had the 385 cid hydraulic lifter engine. I find the body styling...uh...unfortunate, but that's my own taste. Unfortunately, the 836A tore into 840A sales rather than into those of competitive companies. Packard may have learned a lesson from this folly for its 1935 120 series by using a smaller, completely different engine but continuing the styling cues from its senior models. Edited June 30 by Grimy fixed typo (see edit history) 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 At 54k for a 836A would be a world record price. It’s a nice fun car…….and gets you into a Pierce, but the real number for that car could be half the asking or less. It’s what I don’t see in the photos that that scares me. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif in Calif Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 (edited) 11 hours ago, m-mman said: MSRP (in 1935): $2,795 = $64,545.80 according to CPI inflation calculator The thing about these calculations for present value of old prices is that they don't take into account of the way the world has changed. Today, anyone with a decent job can get a 7 year loan and buy a Chevy Tahoe for $64K. In '34 this car was not within reach of many. Edited June 30 by Leif in Calif (see edit history) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 1 hour ago, Grimy said: I find it a stretch to claim that this car was the late 836A built--all the Pierce-Arrow records were destroyed, tossed in the furnace, when the company was liquidated in May 1938. It is legitimate to say that this is the highest serial number 836A registered with or known to the Pierce-Arrow Society (PAS) since 1957. Our records also reflect the engine number 240924 (highest known-to-PAS 836A engine number) and body number 135-S-559 (highest known-to-PAS 836A **sedan** body number). If I were wearing my snark hat today, I'd say this claim is akin to claiming the last Yugo ever built. The 836A was a failed attempt to build a medium-price Pierce in the depression. The 836A used the earlier 366 cid solid-lifter engine, a very good one, and a 3" shorter wheelbase when the larger 840A had the 385 cid hydraulic lifter engine. I find the body styling...uh...unfortunate, but that's my own taste. Unfortunately, the 836A tore into 840A sales rather than into those of competitive companies. Packard may have learned a lesson from this folly for its 1935 120 series by using a smaller, completely different engine but continuing the styling cues from its senior models. You made me laugh George. I don't hate the styling, but was never a fan of detuning just to have a lesser model. Seem like weird way to make a lesser car that is actually not cheaper to build. I wish they had left the interior alone. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 When it comes to club sedan proportions, the closer the body mass ends near the rear axle plane the more attractive it is. A detail that contributes is the position of the rear door edge: it never should be beyond the rear axle plane. The 836A violates both these tenets to a degree, looks 'over-cabbed' in the rear section. While nearly equal door window openings can visually work on some cars such as the Cord 810/812 sedans, Ray Dietrich discovered the 3-2-1 window opening proportional configuration was more visually pleasing. The '33 836 club sedan has it, the '34 836A does not. The '33 836 is styled in the architectural 'High-Classic' idiom which includes a relatively thin roof shell, the '34 834A moves toward the rounded Streamlined Modern theme which includes a thicker roof shell which appear taller. Although the two images are not exact profiles, they reasonable illustrate the differences. Credit to RM Sotheby and the 836A seller for the images. Steve 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den41Buick Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 8 hours ago, alsancle said: You made me laugh George. I don't hate the styling, but was never a fan of detuning just to have a lesser model. Seem like weird way to make a lesser car that is actually not cheaper to build. I wish they had left the interior alone. Well Packard did the same in 1932 with the Light Eight. That didn’t work out too well and it only lasted one year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobinVirginia Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 9 hours ago, Grimy said: I find it a stretch to claim that this car was the last 836A built--all the Pierce-Arrow records were destroyed, tossed in the furnace, when the company was liquidated in May 1938. It is legitimate to say that this is the highest serial number 836A registered with or known to the Pierce-Arrow Society (PAS) since 1957. Our records also reflect the engine number 240924 (highest known-to-PAS 836A engine number) and body number 135-S-559 (highest known-to-PAS 836A **sedan** body number). If I were wearing my snark hat today, I'd say this claim is akin to claiming the last Yugo ever built. The 836A was a failed attempt to build a medium-price Pierce in the depression. The 836A used the earlier 366 cid solid-lifter engine, a very good one, and a 3" shorter wheelbase when the larger 840A had the 385 cid hydraulic lifter engine. I find the body styling...uh...unfortunate, but that's my own taste. Unfortunately, the 836A tore into 840A sales rather than into those of competitive companies. Packard may have learned a lesson from this folly for its 1935 120 series by using a smaller, completely different engine but continuing the styling cues from its senior models. That’s what I was thinking. Glad you jumped on it before I had to answer! 🤣😂👍🏻 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 Looks like a pretty nice car to me. I agree that the closeup of the hood ornament is not very flattering to the paint. The above comments reaffirms that if and when I decide to buy a car like this I need to take Ed and AJ along for the ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 11 hours ago, Den41Buick said: Well Packard did the same in 1932 with the Light Eight. That didn’t work out too well and it only lasted one year. Apparently, the old boys in Buffalo when developing the 836A weren't paying attention to the Packard's recent experience with the Light Eight 900. Or they failed to wonder why the 900 prices were increased within months of its introduction then quietly folded into the Eight line for 1933. The Light Eight 900 succeeded but not in the way management intended, it sold 40.7% of total 1932 sales, cannibalizing the sales of the higher-priced Packard models. It did deliver an important message: to compete on price, the total car and production methods had to be designed, engineered, tooled and productionized to meet a specific price target. resulting in the 120. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-mman Posted July 1 Author Share Posted July 1 1 hour ago, 58L-Y8 said: Apparently, the old boys in Buffalo when developing the 836A weren't paying attention Remember that the boys in Buffalo had just extracted Pierce from the Studebaker bankruptcy. Studebaker was doing all the Pierce foundry work in South Bend. Kind of a surprise that there was any Pierce after 1933. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 If this were a victoria coupe with the same profile but only two long doors, would the negative opinions change? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 56 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said: If this were a victoria coupe with the same profile but only two long doors, would the negative opinions change? It would help the door and window detail proportions, but the overall form remains if all else is shared with the four-door sedan. Are any of the 1934 836A Club Broughams still extant? Does anyone have a profile photograph of one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said: If this were a victoria coupe with the same profile but only two long doors, would the negative opinions change? It would have bucket seats, and be ten times more desirable than a 836A........ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 Just now, edinmass said: It would have bucket seats, and be ten times more desirable than a 836A........ The same "bucket" seats as in 840A, 1240A club broughams and production Silver Arrows (I speak from experience), and earlier club broughams: high center, no lateral support, and in the immortal words of the late Bill C. of TX, "driving while seated on a beach ball." 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 Yes George....but us tall and large guys find them much more comfortable, and easier to get in and out of.........those vertically challenged can easily fit in the 836A. 😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 13 minutes ago, edinmass said: Yes George....but us tall and large guys find them much more comfortable, and easier to get in and out of.........those vertically challenged can easily fit in the 836A. 😎 I prefer to be vertically challenged than rectally challenged like you, Ed! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 1 hour ago, Grimy said: I prefer to be vertically challenged than rectally challenged like you, Ed! I beg to differ........I'm challenged in countless categories.............but when it comes to my postierior I have been told I am a perfect XXXXXXX! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 46 minutes ago, edinmass said: I beg to differ........I'm challenged in countless categories.............but when it comes to my postierior I have been told I am a perfect XXXXXXX! That's what I'm talking about and I'll support that appellation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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