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Oops I did it again... 1920 Dodge Brothers Roadster


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Posted (edited)

This popped up today and I bought it 3 hours later.... Didn't plan on buying a car today but a bucket list car has to come home! Pickup is in a few weeks...

 

Don't want to make it too hard but see if you can tell what she is... I'll post some full pics later tonight... I don't think this will be too hard for our members...

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Edited by Lahti35 (see edit history)
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Y'all zeroed in on it pretty good!

 

1920 Dodge Brothers Roadster

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I was browsing the net this AM and ran across this at auction ending in 3 hours. It was just over the border in Indiana, 180mi away from me. I figured it would go for big money from some similar auction results but it didn't and I won it. Supposedly in the same family until 2022 when it sold at auction, the new owner never got to it and put it up for auction again. Not running for the last 5 years they say but it turns over.

 

The plan is to get it home and look it over good, go through the car system by system and get it back on the road. 

 

I've been after a DB for some time but something always went wrong... The car would be priced crazy, the seller would back out, the distance would be too far to be practical. Not this time, I think this one wanted to come home with me.

 

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  • Lahti35 changed the title to Oops I did it again... 1920 Dodge Brothers Roadster
1 hour ago, Jeff Perkins / Mn said:

I’ve always thought if I bought an early DB I would never drive a Ford again! Good find, should be lots of fun. Looking forward to following your adventures with this one. JP

It will be interesting to compare to my '26 T touring, in terms of size and speed. I've heard from several people over the years that the dodge is a better car than the T but I don't think i'll have trouble enjoying them both. 

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The dodge is home. 

 

The wife and I made the trip down on the highway this AM through rain and came back in sun on the slower back roads to prevent any damage to the top. Three hours down, six back. The seller was a nice guy and we got it loaded easily. He also gave me oils he had purchased for it and a new battery he had never installed. There were also some extra vintage items in the trunk not shown in the auction so that was cool.

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The top is very brittle, I doubt it would survive the car driving at it's own pace. The wrap got it home no worse for wear than it was at pickup. 

 

First impressions of the car:

-It does have compression.

-It rolls very easily.

-It's remarkably solid except for some very minor rot in one corner of the battery tray.

-It's had some amature restoration work done to it but nothing drastic...

-There's lots of play in the steering box and the drag link ends.

-The radiator looks to have been serviced and repainted at some point.

-The tires are in good shape with no cracking except for the spare but leak currently.

-The seat is the original leather and failing in spots.

-The wiring is toast, I unhooked the battery in the car even though it only had two volts.

-Gas tank is varnish city and the funk is powerful.

-Motometer looks to be ok.

-Clutch, brake and parking brake are all horribly out of adjustment. 

-Wheel spokes all seem to be ok.

 

I didn't get much time with it tonight but i'll check it over some more this weekend and go from there. In the meantime I'll get some manuals on the car, fuel system and electrical stuff and start studying. At a minimum the fuel system will have to be totally cleaned/repaired, oil pan dropped for cleaning, and the ignition wiring will have to be redone.

 

 

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I did some more digging today... Found some good and bad.

 

The water neck was gooped with sealant and looks beautiful.

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The pump itself is leaking from the packing nut. When I address it I may just get a new shaft for the packing to ride on. I noticed it started leaking after I turned the engine over by hand and has some corrosion creeping out of it. The reinforced rubber connector disc from the pump to distributor is petrified and in need of replacement. 

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Some funky spring extension going on here...

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At some point someone added a filter to the vacuum tank. I don't like it hanging way out there on a pipe extension. We all know how fragile these SW vacuum tank tops are so it has to go. I have seen an "Gascolator" made filter that hooks directly to the vacuum canister top with a banjo bolt and washers so i'll try to find one of those. Note the dark urine sample in the red filter... The old girl needs to drink more water.

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I was pleasantly surprised by the condition of the distributor cap and rotor. I believe the distributor is missing it's original condenser that goes into the two holes under the rotor at the bottom. The points look ok too.

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I pulled the spark plugs to get a look at what was going on in the cylinders and am very happy to report they all are dry, no oil. Rich with carbon but no signs of oil sneaking past rings. They all look just like this one. 

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Something also sort of neat is the number of alemite fitting caps that are present. I've found several in place so far, never had a car with so many caps.

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After surveying I officially started in at my favorite place to begin, the battery cables. They're the typical crusty, corroded, mess I'm familiar with and will all be replaced. I pulled them along with the starter switch box for rehab to measure cable sizes and connectors. Time to start ordering parts. 

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Posted (edited)

Things are starting to roll in now... 

 

I got my orders from Myers and Romar and it's all real nice stuff with fast shipping! I got a new water pump shaft and gasket, literature, some parts for the vacuum tank, carb gasket set, and some odds and ends. 

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I'm still waiting on the bulk of my orders for the battery cable and hardware from various suppliers but they are due here this week. I was itchy to do something besides research so I pulled the starter switch for a cleaning and used a new product I have never tried. I'm not big on advertisement but this Super Clean stuff works good. The back of the starter switch was gooped up with the old dried petrified grease and dirt mixture we all love so much, the dremel wire brush was nearly useless. I poked around on youtube and found some product testing videos and Super Clean beat out a lot of other contenders, plus it was scent free (I don't want my dodge smelling like oranges). My go to oven cleaner removes paint as well as grease and Super Clean wasn't supposed to, I don't want to strip paint this time around. 

 

I set the switch on some cardboard in the shade and gave it some squirts of cleaner and did it two more times over 20 minutes. Some very light soft toothbrush action and a water wash removed 98% of the junk, only a few pencil lead sized hard cases clung on and required a pic. I was thoroughly impressed, it didn't bother any paint either. I wish I had taken a before pic but be assured it was grungy, and it cleaned easy. No idea how it will do on a more moist dirt/grease/oil combo but i'll find out soon.

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Sunday is a big day, the Dodge comes out of the barn for a good cleaning of the engine and transmission so I can get going on refurbishment. I'll be working on the fuel system, ignition, and water pump simultaneously to keep things moving along at a good clip. 

 

 

 

Edited by Lahti35 (see edit history)
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Today was cleaning day...

 

The engine was pretty grimy as was the bellhousing and transmission.

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I started with one side of the engine and then the other before moving onto the transmission. The engine went fairly quick, I sprayed the Super clean on and went away for 20 minutes then came back and washed it off. There were a few stubborn spots but It looks much better and it has a fair bit of original paint clinging on yet... I put a light coat of oil on it to keep rust away and will wipe away any excess tomorrow to keep dust from clinging. Looks much better....

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The transmission was a goopy mess and it took a few hours to get it looking respectable. I didn't go crazy trying to get every last spot off either the engine or transmission, I just tried to strike a balance between clean and keeping the paint as much as possible. 

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Here she is with the top down waiting for the water to dry off from washing...

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I pulled the gas tank today also in preparation for cleaning it of the varnish. It came of easy, just unhooked the fuel line and the two straps to drop it.

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I noticed there was some sealant around the pickup tube when I picked it up and gave it a tug after I had the tank out. Sealant was all that was holding it. It looks like it was soldered in originally but I hate to disturb the paint to do it again. Maybe there's a mechanical solution here with a fitting and nut on the inside.

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I also pulled out the light/ignition switch to examine it. It looked pretty clean but the key was sticky, even with the new one so i'll have to check into that. The wires have a strange little loop connector on the ends, as much as I value originality I'll most likely just use standard loop terminals but that's a bit away yet. The headlight resistor is toast to i'll need to dig up a modern equivalent.

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Since I had my new key I thought I'd look inside the ignition switch. The old CLUM key was wore down pretty good...

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The switch came apart without much fuss. The paper board was in good shape, some of the best I've seen. Once the paper was out I luber the tumbler and got it working smoothly. Pretty simple in there, just some springs keeping everything pressed together.

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The contacts were clean, very clean. I kissed the them with some scotch brite just to make 'em extra crisp and called it good. 

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Back in the switch...

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I ran into an issues on the backside with a contact rivet that had spilt and half let go of the tab it was holding so it will need to be soldered. I'll finish the switch when my resistor comes in. 

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Welcome to Billy Bob's greatest hits...

 

Nails for pins:

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Why use the two required gaskets on your vacuum tank when one will sort of work!

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Fasteners to keep your pins from walking out of the starter/generator chain? Naaaaaaah, overkill!

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As you can see I spent some time finding some goofs today! I pulled the carb and very carefully disassembled it, neat carb never been into one of these before. Someone has been in here before but didn't do the whole job, I even found an extra gasket up inside the sliding assembly stopping it  from fully seating ( I don't think it's supposed to be there). Currently the parts are soaking in carb cleaner removing some gunk. The insides were actually pretty clean, I was expecting varnish city but it wasn't so.

 

Speaking of varnish city I found that in the vacuum tank... First I dumped the green gas, outside! Yes, it was as green as the grass and smelled terrible. 

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Some funky powdery stuff that blew off but stunk like varnish.

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I'll bet you can smell these pictures!

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Then there is this little curiosity... I don't think this is original but I'm not sure. I seem to recall the oil level marks are cast into the water jacket. 

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Parts will soak tonight and i'll so another batch tomorrow. WIsh I had a bigger can of cleaner but I'll make do. I got some parts in today so I've got 95% of what I need to remake the battery cables. I just need a few terminals and some stock to make the insulating ends. 

 

I adjusted the starter/generator belt today also which is where I found the missing fasteners on the chain. There are two types of chains used, mine is the early one that calls for 1/2" of deflection between the gears. I figured no one had been in there so I better check, there was 1 1/2" of deflection easy. Adjusting is none to complicated, the starter/generator is on an eccentric that allows it to move in or out. I'm not sure if a cotter pin is the fastener the service manual calls for so i'll have to do some digging... I can't close it back up until I get something in there. No telling how long it's been like that...

 

 

 

 

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I pulled my carb parts out of the dip this afternoon and scrubbed them clean. 

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Everything looks very good, the only real issue I saw was the fuel filter failing. I've got some new brass mesh on the way to fix it. I'm leaving the outside of the carb looking much as it did to match the rest of the car.

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Also cleaned overnight and this AM were the vacuum tank bits. The inner and outer tank cleaned up pretty well, as did the cover assembly which I assembled with a new brass pin instead of the old nail holding the float on. The top tested well, I installed new springs but both valves are working correctly so that's a win.

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I assembled the vacuum tank and temporarily put the carb back together while I wait for the brass mesh so I don't forget where stuff goes. 

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Even though I have been primarily a Ford guy for 50 years I thoroughly enjoy these non-Ford builds and rebuilds. Jason’s Nash and F-250 restos were just outstanding.  I am very enthused about learning Dodge Brothers cars through his descriptions and outstanding photography. Keep up the great work!!

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Posted (edited)

There are a few guys on the Model T Ford Club of America forum that if you read it for a while, start to pick up on that they also have Dodge Brothers cars. :) 

Lahti35, thanks for linking this to the DB page. Great progress so far. Hope you have it running soon. 

When I got mine, I had to get it started to get it out of where it was stored, that sure started the learning process. 

 

 

Edited by Mark Gregush (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Lahti35 said:

I pulled my carb parts out of the dip this afternoon and scrubbed them clean. 

IMG_20240604_130218426.jpg.f15b51651396de9691eda628dfe195f6.jpg

 

Everything looks very good, the only real issue I saw was the fuel filter failing. I've got some new brass mesh on the way to fix it. I'm leaving the outside of the carb looking much as it did to match the rest of the car.

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Also cleaned overnight and this AM were the vacuum tank bits. The inner and outer tank cleaned up pretty well, as did the cover assembly which I assembled with a new brass pin instead of the old nail holding the float on. The top tested well, I installed new springs but both valves are working correctly so that's a win.

IMG_20240604_151345326.jpg.ea52ebbc78928c0192b5cc629a6d3954.jpg

 

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IMG_20240604_151147350.jpg.1ec20cd3a585d1a0d7d6941f088daa12.jpg

 

I assembled the vacuum tank and temporarily put the carb back together while I wait for the brass mesh so I don't forget where stuff goes. 

IMG_20240604_170300662.jpg.f37de766b3bb52bfcd33492a7048d0b4.jpg

 

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I’ll be doing the vacuum tank on my Haynes sometime soon as well. Thanks for posting the pics! I hope everything is going well with your project! It’s a sharp car! Mine is a bit rough. Lol

Edited by BobinVirginia (see edit history)
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8 hours ago, BobinVirginia said:

I’ll be doing the vacuum tank on my Haynes sometime soon as well. Thanks for posting the pics! I hope everything is going well with your project! It’s a sharp car! Mine is a bit rough. Lol

So far so good, one never knows what worn out part is hiding under another! 

 

I find vacuum tanks to not be too complicated but I treat the original tops like fine china and handle them with much care. Hopefully yours is in good shape and just needs a good cleaning. 

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Posted (edited)

I got the last bit I needed to make my battery cables Thursday and set to work. There is one company that makes reproductions but they don't have the insulating ends and the conduit size is larger than the 7/16" ID stuff the Dodge had originally.

 

Since a new cable would be larger than the original and I didn't want two different size cables I just decided to replace them both. One cable had been replaced in the past at some point anyway. No one had 7/16" ID conduit so I upped the cables to #2 and used 1/2" ID conduit. 

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I used some phenolic linen rod and turned some new conduit ends.

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I was trying to go for what Dodge had used on the original cable and what I saw in the books. You can see the original end vs. the new made stuff...

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The original red ends looked like maybe they were rubber or something so I dyed the the new ones in some red fabric dye on the skeptical wife's stove but it all turned out ok!

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I think they turned out pretty good even though they are a bit larger than the originals. The upside is I got to go with #2 cable instead of the #4.

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Edited by Lahti35 (see edit history)
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Some dodge odds & ends to wrap up the week...

 

My NORS condenser showed up.

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I pulled the right front spring and found the bushing on the rear worn through into the eye. I pulled it because of the obvious damage to two of the leaves. I'm in talks with some spring folks to get it rectified. Something tells me the other springs eyes are worn out also...

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I pulled the speedometer also as I could tell from underneath the dash that the pot metal was toast. Luckily the car came with a spare from an earlier unit which I took a peek inside also...

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Old one is roached...

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The spare looks better on the inside and came with a speedo cable also. It appears they share many of the same internal parts and I may be able to make a good one from the two. 

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Didn't get as far as I wanted to today but I did get the new speedo cable cleaner, greased, and installed. It was pretty gunky inside but it cleaned up good. I put some tape over the speedo end to keep it clean until a speedo is ready.

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Going through the same process with my 1913 Ford speedometer. The original chain inner cable broke. I will save the ends and adapt them to a new modern style cable. 
Love the process and attention to detail you attend to. I sure learn a lot from your well illustrated posts!

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I finally found a cotter pin that fit the starter/generator belt! Turns out it's a 3/64" x 3/4" pin. It was as much fun putting it in as it was finding one, McMaster Carr saved the day. Once it was in I buttoned the cover back up with the new gaskets I made and called it good.

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While this has been going on I've been working on the front springs. Turns out the main leaves are worn out, the shackle bolts ate through the bushings and into the springs themselves. I talked with a few spring companies and went with one reasonably close by. The spring guy is on vacation for a few weeks so it will be the first part of july before they get done. 

 

It looks like the chassis hasn't been greased in a looooonnnnnnggggg time. All the grease is ancient, or dried out... All the shackle bolts look about like the one below. Luckily new bolts and bushings are available and have been ordered.

IMG_20240614_213202984.jpg.38f6b7b3f50cde614fe2adce66d956c3.jpg 

 

Tonight I tried my hand at soldering the pickup tube fitting back on the gas tank. It went pretty well, not much drama. It was more fuss removing the old silicone sealer and cleaning than soldering. 

IMG_20240614_213121672_HDR.jpg.47770896e5e4411c4e12487e3b2a8327.jpg

 

While I was cleaning the area to be soldered I found a few pinholes that I patched too. I'm going to try and clean out the varnish this weekend in preparation for the sealer. I've used the POR15 tank sealer before and had good luck with it but preparation is the key, no shortcuts. 

IMG_20240614_213051297_HDR.jpg.a9b55878796f280ea75f56adfcb48ad3.jpg

 

IMG_20240614_213112039_HDR.jpg.5c2c1b95a04a58caf86028293a410ac2.jpg

 

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With almost no wear on the brake and clutch pedals I was suprised to see the condition of the spring shackle bolts. I have been using Por-15 on the inside of the stewart warner vacuum tanks. Bead blast first. Keeps the rust out from the new gas we have now.

It's good to see that this car has gone to the best new home possible.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, kbeach said:

With almost no wear on the brake and clutch pedals I was suprised to see the condition of the spring shackle bolts.

It is a bit of an outlier and somewhat perplexing. There was no fresh grease in the zerks, just old old old stuff. Perhaps the previous owner just never got around to greasing the chassis. The lore surrounding the car is that the same family owned it for 65 years and only put 100mi or so in the last 47 of that. How long does it take dry metal rubbing to wear into itself? Some of the pictures from the original auction in 2022 state that the car had been living in a trailer, for some time by the looks of the oil stains on the trailer's floor. It also shows that the car was secured by straps via the axles allowing the suspension to flex. It must have moved locations at some point prior to the sale in 2022, and from that auction it was transported from Nebraska to Indiana and then on to my place secured by the axles again. It's kind of a mystery...

Edited by Lahti35 (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)

Not much time for the Dodge today, I had to split a gigantic maple trunk down to firewood and that ate up the day but I did sneak out to the shop for an hour. 

 

I soldered the riveted brass contacts on the back of the switch as two of them had lost some of the brass rivet that broke off many moons ago. I tried one contact a few weeks ago but my soldering iron was barely adequate so I purchased a 200w unit and it's great! I finished up the last contacts and it was a breeze. The brass leads were still connected but a little extra securing wouldn't hurt and hopefully keep anymore from stress cracking around the rivets. Other than that the switch just functions smoothly and beautifully, nicest one I've ever had. It turns cleanly and the detents are crispy, couldn't ask for more. I also replaced the screws and lock washers on the backside with stainless units. The only thing left is to get a resistor for the headlights, i'm looking into recreating the original...

IMG_20240615_190514305_HDR.jpg.fe3db6cb8b599ce925d60ebd80acc979.jpg

 

The other thing I did was clean the old dry grease out of the original Alemite zerks for the springs. I soaked them for 24 hours in Berryman's and blew them out with air, then gave them a thinner bath scrub up and blew them out again to get them flowing good. New grease would have moved the old stuff down the line but I don't want that old junk going into the new bolts and bushings. Once clean I screwed them into the new spring bolts. This is one set for a front spring, two for the spring and one for the frame shackle mount. 

IMG_20240615_190458208_HDR.jpg.84c5d749a38e646280624da35c41374a.jpg

 

The spring company will install the new bushings in the new top spring leaves, I only have to pull the frame bushing and install the new ones on each side. It looks like someone had tried to fix the front eye of one spring but with the spring metal worn the newer bushing got egg-shaped with nothing under it for support. 

 

 

Edited by Lahti35 (see edit history)
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8 hours ago, kbeach said:

I have been using Por-15 on the inside of the stewart warner vacuum tanks. Bead blast first. Keeps the rust out from the new gas we have now.

I'm considering this also... I cleaned it with Berryman's with got 99% of the rust and all the varnish out. I loosely put it all back together and have not put it back on the car yet while I debated with myself. I've got enough POR15 to do the gas tank and thought i'd maybe brush the leftovers inside the vacuum tank. Currently I just hit the inside of the vacuum tank with some penetrating oil to keep it from rusting. 

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Posted (edited)

I replaced the tie rod bolts and bushings this afternoon, there was play but not as severe as the springs.

IMG_20240616_115704333_HDR.jpg.d301c6b65f5f1d5e04a762d3234a7d6e.jpg

 

I made a bushing remover/installer out of some threaded rod, nuts, washers, and certain size sockets to allow the old bushing to be pulled out the bottom and the new one pulled in from the top. 

IMG_20240616_132714186.jpg.47d7d198d52de59dcee2974a90335bfe.jpg

 

It worked pretty good. The old ones came out without much fuss. Here's an original next to the replacement.

IMG_20240616_124700665.jpg.aae2eee707ca53df8e08ac2a48eda53e.jpg

 

Inserting the new ones in place after cleaning and lubing the castings...

IMG_20240616_131929365.jpg.870902c438f12e4ce169ee9486eb6204.jpg

 

I did run onto a snag with the hardware supplied for the tie rod bols. The nuts were too short, I seem to run into this pretty often... The new castle nuts aren't as tall as the old ones and as a result the cotter pin holes in the bolts sit past the nut. Are they going to back off? I guess not all the way but it bugs me so I found a box of vintage nuts some time ago and have been using them instead. You can see the old NOS one (green arrow) is taller than the new unit.

IMG_20240616_141535804.jpg.cd0c4f21685b59822899ee8173d5f0a8.jpg

 

All buttoned up...

IMG_20240616_135851164.jpg.14c4c494e9987dd4aee97ec27c0a4fc2.jpg

Edited by Lahti35 (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)

When I took apart the carb some time ago the mesh fuel filter was found to be compromised. Not much filtering going on there!

IMG_20240604_130212781.jpg.cb22b8334782a6ab0c5eb87c10183641.jpg 

 

I removed the old junky mesh and cleaned the filter body in preparation for soldering new mesh in place. I found some "80" mesh for HO model trains that was almost identical in size to the original. Let me tell you my eyes get more crappy as time goes on and counting the number of holes in 1" of miniature mesh with a dental curette is somewhat taxing!

 

The mesh cuts cleanly with scissors so I got it close with a little overlap on top for trimming and wired it in place.

IMG_20240616_173057514.jpg.03fe3f7973deee6d9d3872fc18a7d80b.jpg

 

Soldering this was a bit challenge and the first attempt failed do to too much solder used, it migrated up the mesh and blocked off too much of the filter. The second attempt went much better and was a success. I put it on a piece steel facing down so gravity would help keep it at the base. I then heated the top side with a torch, keeping the flame away from the mesh and let the heat migrate down to where the flux was spread and soldered it.

IMG_20240616_180302017_HDR.jpg.e77df2cfc23f6d468a041715b103057d.jpg

 

There is a lap joint that needed to be soldered where the mesh met itself on the side. I accomplished this with a small 75W soldering iron after it had cooled down and I had removed the wire holding the mesh on for the initial soldering. I ran a file around the end to remove any mesh overlap around the opening and called it good.

IMG_20240616_204751909_HDR.jpg.735442afced8c8fcdc4b570a056b263e.jpg

 

IMG_20240616_204818545_HDR.jpg.7642ca8ec56e5196604bcfb6cd9ac5f1.jpg

 

Fits great, no issues. All the carb needs now is a viton O ring for the enricher shaft and a new return spring for the enricher shaft arm. IMG_20240616_205057293_PORTRAIT.jpg.4f6050caeeb8dacc5e4324d3a72057d6.jpg

Edited by Lahti35 (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, BobinVirginia said:

@Lahti35

Good stuff! I should probably follow suit with your format and picture descriptions on my project. I’m enjoying keeping up with your project! Thanks 

Thanks for the kind words!

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