Are Six Cylinder cars from the '50's and '60's Trending with Collectors?

[carbking]

Rusty - NO, not progressive linkage!!! How many Jaguar or Austin Healey 6's with 3 carbs did you ever see with progressive linkage???

 

Why do 3 work better than 2? Look at the cylinder head port configuration. Three siamesed sets of 2.

 

Three smaller carbs work great, but with straight linkage.

 

For the 261, would depend on how mild the hop-up. Three Carter W-0 from Jeep for basically stock to mild modification; three Carter W-1 for a more modified engine.

 

Jon

[60FlatTop]

On 4/16/2024 at 10:39 AM, rocketraider said:

I can hear them now. "Why you wasting time and money on a FOUR DOOR?! with a SIX-CYLINDER?! That car ain't worth NOTHING!!"

"They" were saying that back in the 1960s when I first got into the hobby. And they said it like I was wasting their time.

 

I have lived through enough decades to notice that those same people pick one of those time wasters up cheap from some widow and strut around like it way the greatest thing ever. Something they wouldn't have crossed the street to look at a week before.

 

When my daughter got to car buying age I told her to always buy the better model with the bigger engine. You won't be disappointed. I can't even think of a cheap car that appeals to me.

[JACK M]

14 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said:

 

If you have a spare slant six and a light car to put it in (like a Valiant, Dart or early Barracuda) you could have a lot of fun with the parts you already have plus a reground cam and one more forgotten speed secret, a shaved  flywheel for whippier acceleration

So many cool ideas, so little time. I do have pretty much everything I need except for hours (and the cam).

I even have both versions of the car four speeds kicking around. (darn, now I think I might need a shift linkage as well).

I like the shaved flywheel idea; I might have to get some advice on that if I ever get serious.

[Pfeil]

17 hours ago, Dave Wells said:

Nova in Spanish is "not going"---(no-go).

GM didn't sell a lot of Novas in South America.

It's the classic cautionary tale about the pitfalls of doing business in foreign countries that can be found in hundreds (if not thousands) of books about marketing: General Motors introduced their Chevrolet Nova model of automobile into a Spanish-speaking market, then scratched their heads in puzzlement when it sold poorly. GM executives were baffled until someone finally pointed out to them that "nova" translates as "doesn't go" in Spanish. The embarrassed automobile giant changed the model's name to the Caribe, and sales of the car took off.

This anecdote is frequently used to illustrate the perils of failing to do adequate preparation and research before introducing a product into the international marketplace. It's a wicked irony, then, that the people who use this example are engaging in the very thing they're decrying, because a little preparation and research would have informed them that it isn't true. (The sources that repeat this little tale can't even agree on where the Nova supposedly sold poorly, variously listing locales such as Puerto Rico, Mexico, South America, or simply "Spanish-speaking countries.") This is another one of those tales that makes its point so well -- just like the fable about George Washington and the cherry tree -- that nobody wants to ruin it with a bunch of facts. Nonetheless, we're here to ruin it.

The original Chevrolet Nova (initially the Chevy II) hit the U.S. market in 1962. (This car should not be confused with the smaller, front wheel drive vehicle which was produced in 1985 as a joint venture between General Motors and Toyota and also assigned the Nova name.) Between 1972 and 1978 the Chevrolet Nova was also sold in Mexico and several other Spanish-speaking countries, primarily Venezuela. Shortly afterwards the great "Nova" legend arose, a legend which a little linguistic analysis shows it to be improbable:

• First of all, the phrase "no va" (literally "doesn't go") and the word "nova" are distinct entities with different pronunciations in Spanish: the former is two words and is pronounced with the accent on the second word; the latter is one word with the accent on the first syllable. Assuming that Spanish speakers would naturally see the word "nova" as equivalent to the phrase "no va" and think "Hey, this car doesn't go!" is akin to assuming that English speakers would spurn a dinette set sold under the name Notable because nobody wants a dinette set that doesn't include a table.
• Although "no va" can be literally translated as "no go," it would be a curious locution for a speaker of Spanish to use in reference to a car. Just as an English speaker would describe a broken-down car by saying that it "doesn't run" rather than it "doesn't go," so a Spanish speaker would refer to a malfunctioning automobile by saying "no marcha" or "no funciona" or "no camina" rather than "no va."
• Pemex (the Mexican government-owned oil monopoly) has sold gasoline in Mexico under the name "Nova." If Mexicans were going to associate anything with the Chevrolet Nova based on its name, it would probably be this gasoline. In any case, if Mexicans had no compunctions about filling the tanks of their cars with a type of fuel whose brand name advertised that it "didn't go," why would they reject a similarly named automobile?
• This legend assumes that a handful of General Motors executives launched a car into a foreign market and remained in blissful ignorance about a possible adverse translation of its name. Even if nobody in Detroit knew enough rudimentary Spanish to notice the coincidence, the Nova could not have been brought to market in Mexico and/or South America without the involvement of numerous Spanish speakers engaged to translate user manuals, prepare advertising and promotional materials, communicate with the network of Chevrolet dealers in the target countries, etc. In fact, GM was aware of the translation and opted to retain the model name "Nova" in Spanish-speaking markets anyway, because they (correctly) felt the matter to be unimportant.

The truth is that the Chevrolet Nova's name didn't significantly affect its sales: it sold well in both its primary Spanish-language markets, Mexico and Venezuela, and its Venezuelan sales figures actually surpassed GM's expectations.

The whole "Nova = "doesn't go" tale was merely another in a long line of automotive jokes, like the ones about "Ford" being an acronym for "Fix or repair daily" or "Found on road dead" or "Fiat" being an acronym for "Fix it again, Tony!" These humorous inventions might adequately reflect the tellers' feelings about the worthiness of various types of automobiles, but we don't really expect that anyone ever refrained from buying a Ford because he actually believed they needed to be repaired on a daily basis.

The one bit of supporting evidence offered to back up this legend is spurious as well. General Motors, we're told, finally wised up and changed the model's name of their automobile from Nova to Caribe, after which sales of the car "took off." The problem with this claim is that the Caribe sold in Mexico was manufactured by Volkswagen, not by General Motors. (The Caribe was the model's name used by VW in Mexico for the car more commonly known in the USA as the Volkswagen Golf.) The Nova's model name was never changed for the Spanish-speaking market.

The Chevy Nova legend lives on in countless marketing textbooks, is repeated in numerous business seminars, and is a staple of newspaper and magazine columnists who need a pithy example of human folly. Perhaps someday this apocryphal tale will become what it should be: an illustration of how easily even "experts" can sometimes fall victim to the very same dangers they warn us about.

[Pfeil]

22 hours ago, rocketraider said:

 

I bet you hear "that ain't even a real Nova neither!" a lot too!

 

As me Aunt Tillie would have said to them after living in Baltimore more than forty years "aw yiz is ignert!" (all of you are ignorant!).

 

Mmph. From a Southern Vajenya Piedmont accent to full-blown Bawlmerese. She was the first lady cabbie in Baltimore. Started driving in WW2 when all the guys went to war. Probably driving a 6-cylinder Checker or DeSoto.

What I hear is " I didn't know Oldsmobile made a Nova" Always asked how fast it can go.

  One guy with a 79 Seville said to me, " you know that Oldsmobile has a Chevrolet engine", so I replied, "you know you know that Cadillac of yours has an Oldsmobile engine and a NOVA subframe." 

[Pfeil]

The thing I like about the Gen 3 Chevrolet engine and the Pontiac OHC sixes is that the bottom end is very strong with seven main bearings, plus the engines (except the 292) are oversquare. I like having a main bearing between each connecting rod for support. I also like Gear to gear instead of a timing chain in the case of the Chevrolet. I also like the Chevrolet intake manifold being part of the cylinder head, while not good or impossible for racing and a reputation for cracking, the head, if warmed up slowly will not crack and inside has a better distribution of intake runners than the 62-75 intake manifolds and better thermal efficiency for better emissions and low-end torque.  

[Rusty_OToole]

I don't know about the "Nova" in Spanish but I have seen "Ascot" chairs in a furniture store.

[theconvertibleguy]

I mean with the price of gas, they're sounding like a good choice nowadays. Especially with gas right now being ~6$ a gallon

[60FlatTop]

I heard McDonald's had great success when they took their Big Mac's to Scotland.

[Ed Luddy]

As the price tide rises to levels that outstrip finances for "hobby cars" a nicely kept 4 door 6 cylinder sedan from 1955 to mid 70's is very easy to justify and enjoy as much as a big bucks convertible/ hardtop V8 model for a good percentage of people. I'm at the age where I'm never, ever buying a project again(yeah right) due to costs and inability to crawl under cars and get back up in one piece. So  a nice  4 door in good turnkey "mostly original"  condition has huge appeal to me. Especially if it has A/C and brakes that work!

[1935Packard]

I’ve long figured that, over time, differences in classic car values based on engine output/size/cylinders would diminish. No one is driving old cars today to be fast when you can get a new car that goes 0-60 in 3 seconds.

Edited April 18 by 1935Packard (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

14 hours ago, Ed Luddy said:

As the price tide rises to levels that outstrip finances for "hobby cars" a nicely kept 4 door 6 cylinder sedan from 1955 to mid 70's is very easy to justify and enjoy as much as a big bucks convertible/ hardtop V8 model for a good percentage of people. I'm at the age where I'm never, ever buying a project again(yeah right) due to costs and inability to crawl under cars and get back up in one piece. So  a nice  4 door in good turnkey "mostly original"  condition has huge appeal to me. Especially if it has A/C and brakes that work!

 

I am afraid you hit the nail on the head Ed. Many of us have budgets that are fading into insignificance against mainstream old car prices. And all that much worse for us Canucks and our Canadian peso's.

 I can't really see myself joining the 6 cyl , sedan club. Fine for others, but just not my thing. As far as fuel milage goes I have always been on two tracks in the hobby. Old domestic cars plus British sports cars. These days I am selling not buying domestic cars . And have bought a couple more British cars . I have a feeling this is a trend that is going to continue. I still have a couple of domestic's on the back burner , my Cyclone CJ for example. I have a reasonable cash offer standing on that one but I am probably going to pass. { mostly for the value of my 40 year collection of CJ engines and other CJ specific parts } But otherwise it would take a once in a lifetime deal on a domestic to sway me.

[Rusty_OToole]

Gas here in Ontario now $1.80 a liter (quart). Six cylinder, and even 4 cylinder cars looking more attractive.

[1912Staver]

Out here in lotus land we are looking at $2.10 a liter.  Vespa daily driver ?

[Buffalowed Bill]

I think you have your answer-yes! The hobby is so diverse that appealing to everyone is impossible. I'm drawn to the cars that are seldom seen. Cars from independent manufacturers, surviving originals and stripper models, regardless of make, model or engine all speak to me. That's a rule of thumb, but honestly I never know which car will suck me in until I see it. As someone indicated previously it's all about the car. Those of us who recognize that every car has a story may not be mainstream, but we are not going away.  You won't have to look for us at a car show or cruise, we will find you!