Cost to restore

[Tvpearson]

I might inherit this 1931/32 Model A Victoria - I believe it is- from my Dad who just passed away. I'm in Washington State and the car is in Kansas. Before I commit to taking it and hauling it back to Washington could anyone tell me approximately what it might cost to restore? My Dad bought it the way it is from his cousin and has it stored in an airplane hanger. These photos are from 2021.

[Lee H]

It’s not a Model A. I'll leave it to someone more knowledgeable to tell you what it is, though.

[Tvpearson]

My cousin said it's a 1930-32 Ford Victoria

[bryankazmer]

I think it’s a 1930 Essex

[bryankazmer]

There are very different levels of restoration.  Unless it has huge sentimental value, I’d say this is a candidate for authentic but not concours-level. It will cost more to restore than you can sell it for afterwards, if that’s what you’re trying to assess

[Tvpearson]

I'd restore to keep but don't want the family to go broke... so trying to get an estimate what it might cost. It doesn't need to be perfect.

[alsancle]

You will go broke.

[Gunsmoke]

I'm guessing the car is worth about $2500 as is and where it sits. If you wanted to clean it up and get it running OK mechanically, leaving body and interior original, expect to spend at least $10K-$15K plus costs for transport. If you want a decent full restoration, add another $20K-$30K. 6 tires alone (with tubes and liners) today will likely set you back $3K minimum.

Edited April 3 by Gunsmoke (see edit history)

[bryankazmer]

Join the H-E-T (Hudson-Essex-Terraplane) club to access help and advice. Marque clubs are great sources of expertise and parts

[Jack Bennett]

18 hours ago, Tvpearson said:

I might inherit this 1931/32 Model A Victoria - I believe it is- from my Dad who just passed away. I'm in Washington State and the car is in Kansas. Before I commit to taking it and hauling it back to Washington could anyone tell me approximately what it might cost to restore? My Dad bought it the way it is from his cousin and has it stored in an airplane hanger. These photos are from 2021.

 

I scored some like new 8’X12’ pallets I will use to finish up the bed of my 1929 Fargo. I also scored a nice, real leather covered, road kill couch I will use to recover the seats. Neither of these cost me a penny, unlike the set of lower seat springs I bought from a local junk yard for $35.00.

i decided to use paint more like would have been used on the panel truck when it was new than a more modern acrylic like I used on my Dodge Roadster. The difference in cost was nearly $300.00 less because the tractor enamel, at TSC cost less than $100.00 while the 3 part acrylic cost nearly $400.00.

Rather than have the original 1929 engine, which was frozen, rebuilt, at a cost of nearly $4000.00, and buying a transmission and driveshaft for a few hundred more, I opted to replace the engine with a newer Dodge pickup engine and transmission which cost $300.00 and change.

But, I do up my old vehicles as a hobby, and they are finished in a way that may not please anyone else, but suit my tastes and needs perfectly.

If your intent is to clean up the car, and flip it for a profit, you may be direly disappointed because some folks are like me and the value in owning a old car is in the journey of working on it rather than the luxury of driving a 90 year old car, with mechanical brakes and a cranky gear shift at a mind numbing 45 miles per hour.

But, if you need something to do which can eventually let you drive a machine which can be read like a page in a history book, and appreciate the fact that you have breathed life back into a machine which died 30 or 40 years ago, the value of the car will exceed any dollar amount you spend on paint and upholstery.

Jack

 

[Cadillac Fan]

It will cost you over $100,000 to send it to someone qualified to restore it.   You will be able to sell it for $18,000-24,000 once it is completed.  
 

If you also received a seven figure plus  inheritance, and this car is a family heirloom, and you are passionate about pre war cars, then I would do it.  
 

if not I would sell it.  

Edited April 4 by Cadillac Fan (see edit history)

[ABear]

17 hours ago, Tvpearson said:

I'd restore to keep but don't want the family to go broke... so trying to get an estimate what it might cost. It doesn't need to be perfect.

Restore as in "driveable" as in getting it roadworthy enough to drive around or restore as in full 100% body off engine, transmission apart and 100 point Pebble Beach paint and interior restore?

 

There are many levels in between the two above, the lowest cost is simply getting it running and roadworthy to enjoy driving around on the weekends. But even then, depending on what must be worked on can be costly if you are not able to do any or much of the work yourself and have to depend on a shop to do the work.

 

No one is going to be able to pin point exactly what it will cost as that is going to depend on the actual condition and what your goals are.

 

If planning to fix it up for resale, I would say getting the engine running would be helpful but may involve the cost of a mechanic if you are not able to do the basics.

 

I have walked the same walk with a family car that has been given to me, pretty much do all the work myself on a as needed basis fixing what needs fixed, painting only what needs paint to protect from rust, replacing only what needs replaced and nothing more to keep it running. Still have a lot of money and time tied up in it but it is lots of fun to take it around to local car cruises and even a few parades. Can't put a price tag on fun. Tried to involve my wife and Daughter in car cruises and parades to make it my families fun time.

 

[neil morse]

Bryan is correct.  It's a 1930 Essex, I believe a Super Six.

 

[Jack Bennett]

Posts like this are a day wrecker.

It appears that a little boy needs attention, slaps a few people alongside their head, and then bows out without even a bow.

I am in Washington State and I do this as a hobby……I.e…..a way to relax and dissipate stress without grabbing a handful of face from my hateful neighbors.

The car shown in this post is at very least “interesting” and, for a guy/girl who posts to a antique car forum for lack of anything better to do, is a possible vent for hypertension and job/health/family/financial…….you got it…..STRESS.

So……what happened with the car……did it die……did you die…..did the inheritance fall through…..did you just decide you were not interested…..or is there a deep, dark secret you discovered regarding ownership of a antique  car.

I live in Tacoma, Washington and I dabble in old cars, tractors, lawn mowers, motor scooters and care for a 80 year old body.

PM me if you are still in the old car arena.

Jack

[m-mman]

He last logged in to the board April 26.  😕

[Jack Bennett]

First, an admission. As I grew through infancy, adolescence, puberty, mid life and finally joined the ranks of the elderly, I continually promised myself that I would never allow myself to become a overly critical old grouch.

Secondly, now that life has allowed me to become a member of the elderly tribe, I must admit I am not only a critcal old grouch, I can be a pretty snotty, and sometimes very painful old grouch who sometimes trifles in affairs I have no business even commenting on.

The very fact that I still have the mental faculties to do this may be good fortune rewarding me for living a flawless life or a damnation for some prior wrongs.

Regardless, when I have made and posted this sort of comment I often regret it and feel foolish having made it. 
Asking the moderator to delete it would be the simple route to self pardon, but us old grouches never take the simple way out of being foolish or it would be testify to the fact we are now old, critical, painful, snotty, and sometimes foolish old grouches. 
And, I sincerely believe it is neither possible, or wise to try and recall a bullet once it is fired.

I understand that health, vocation, family and personal matters and attention span has a lot to do with the “if” and “when” a follow up is posted, and I understand that it just isn’t possible for whatever reason. But I also understand that there are members who rely on the forums as their way of inviting others into their possibly sedentary, and possibly equally lonely, lives, and this contact is what constitutes a major portion of their social lives. In easier to swallow words, it is a form of “friendship” and “camaraderie “ that other life circumstances may make otherwise impossible.

It can be challenged that there was ever such a car, or it was ever available as a inheritance, or any other way, but there was a number of members who did, in good faith respond, and a “snub” is impolite, whether it be in person, or a cyber snub on a forum such as this.

Again I apologize for being a critically painful old grouch, but in reflection of my infant and adolescent (learning) years, I was taught that “a cold shoulder” was a juvenile way of communicating a non-verbal message that my train has moved on, and you didn’t have the fare to join me for a ride.

And, I had heard that you sometimes have to “condone” something you don’t necessarily “approve” of it, but it is not mandatory to “accept” it simply to be cordial or socially acceptable.

That said……..I have a left front wheel on my 1929 Fargo Express which has a brake cylinder and a set of shoes which died in the 1970’s, and I hope that by 5:00 today these puppies will be working like they were made in 2024😊.

Jack

 

Edited June 14 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[MotiveLensPhoto]

I was born an old grouch.

[chistech]

This is happening a lot. People’s attention span is about 1/4” long now. They ask a question, get some answers, then aren’t even polite enough to answer back. I know we all, at times, step away from the forums and might not answer for a while but it seems many just never even come back. The interest in fixing the car up cannot be that much in my opinion. Possibly someone got a dream in their head that it would be cool to have the car restored but it appears it was just a dream.

[Jack Bennett]

On 6/14/2024 at 6:44 PM, MotiveLensPhoto said:

I was born an old grouch.

Actually, in a world getting crowded with people who rely on their “entitled” status, rather than a willingness to work, earn even the essentials, and the word “respect” isn’t in their vocabulary, I find it to be a asset.

[Jack Bennett]

11 hours ago, chistech said:

This is happening a lot. People’s attention span is about 1/4” long now. They ask a question, get some answers, then aren’t even polite enough to answer back. I know we all, at times, step away from the forums and might not answer for a while but it seems many just never even come back. The interest in fixing the car up cannot be that much in my opinion. Possibly someone got a dream in their head that it would be cool to have the car restored but it appears it was just a dream.

One could say that Camping, fishing, hunting, boating, carpentry, painting, mountain climbing and cave diving are only momentary distractions. Since there are very few people who make a career of such things and when they do it for a short period of time, perhaps once a year, it must be assumed that they talk about doing it, rather than actually doing it the rest of the time.

Even Albert Lin and Josh Gates must take sabbaticals from their archeological adventures and television programs to do something other than looking at long dead stuff and centuries old buildings……and I’ll bet that when they do, they talk about their cars, motorcycles, boats and metal working skills.

The antique car forums makes a person step back from the daily grind of doing. “Stuff” to survive, and use their elementary school skills of hooking a bunch of words together to pump all the crap cluttering their brain into a receptive, and perhaps beneficial conduit.

Kids, meaning adolescents and teenagers need this sort of outlets in order to learn orderly process……and you said it well…..the simple act of expressing yourself in a polite and civilized manner.

And, the podium is surrendered.

Jack

Edited June 16 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[Packard enthus.]

On 4/4/2024 at 8:30 AM, Jack Bennett said:

I folks are like me and the value in owning a old car is in the journey of working on it rather than the luxury of driving a 90 year old car, with mechanical brakes and a cranky gear shift at a mind numbing 45 miles per hour..............

 

====================================================

I disagree.....well...to this extent.....by the mid 1930's.....most cars had hydraulic brakes.  Some people do maintain their cars, so they most certainly are not "cranky" to shift. (to my experience, virtually every car by then had "synchomesh".....I describe my Packard Twelve's transmission "like a knife thru butter".    45 mph...?  C'mon....man.....you really that ignorant about how properly maintained cars if ANY era are like?    Here's a photo of our car crossing the Continental Divide (high country in the Rocky Mountains)....who wants to guess how much faster than 45 mph we normally drive it when on tour....!  (sure, it is POSSIBLE thru a combination of abuse and incompetent servicing to turn even the best cars into cantankerous junk.....but not everyone does that..!).

[Angelfish]

13 hours ago, Packard enthus. said:

====================================================

I disagree.....well...to this extent.....by the mid 1930's.....most cars had hydraulic brakes.  Some people do maintain their cars, so they most certainly are not "cranky" to shift. (to my experience, virtually every car by then had "synchomesh".....I describe my Packard Twelve's transmission "like a knife thru butter".    45 mph...?  C'mon....man.....you really that ignorant about how properly maintained cars if ANY era are like?    Here's a photo of our car crossing the Continental Divide (high country in the Rocky Mountains)....who wants to guess how much faster than 45 mph we normally drive it when on tour....!  (sure, it is POSSIBLE thru a combination of abuse and incompetent servicing to turn even the best cars into cantankerous junk.....but not everyone does that..!).

Right, because every old car is a mid 30s Packard.

 

[Jack Bennett]

13 hours ago, Packard enthus. said:

====================================================

I disagree.....well...to this extent.....by the mid 1930's.....most cars had hydraulic brakes.  Some people do maintain their cars, so they most certainly are not "cranky" to shift. (to my experience, virtually every car by then had "synchomesh".....I describe my Packard Twelve's transmission "like a knife thru butter".    45 mph...?  C'mon....man.....you really that ignorant about how properly maintained cars if ANY era are like?    Here's a photo of our car crossing the Continental Divide (high country in the Rocky Mountains)....who wants to guess how much faster than 45 mph we normally drive it when on tour....!  (sure, it is POSSIBLE thru a combination of abuse and incompetent servicing to turn even the best cars into cantankerous junk.....but not everyone does that..!).

Hi Packard…….Congratulations for pursuing a hobby as it was intended to be pursued. Your car, and your ability to drive and maintain it is the stuff of envy.

I don’t write to these forums because I have a contract with clubs such as AACA, WOKR, Dodge Brothers, the P-15 - D-24 to produce a certain amount of editorial material, or even compete with guys like Jay Leno for recognition and money.

Rather, I am a retiree, nearly 80 years old, who was born into a life that kept my nose to the grindstone for over 40 years. Since age 16 it was never my place to ask why……only but to do or die. 
Now, I need something to keep the cobwebs from smothering my brain and the effects of aging destroying my body one piece at a time.

My old machines are a continuation of the use of skills that I have acquired during a long lifetime, but my lifestyle has never been so luxurious that I could even take time to admire a 12 cylinder car.

Don’t start slobbering over your one-upmanship right yet because I am not the surf adoring the knighted, rather I am the guy who made it possible for you to drive a twelve cylinder car that would take a month of my civil servants retirement pay just to drive a few miles.

No Sir, I am 100% happy being a old fuddy-duddy who is forever grateful that I still have the skills to maintain my old machines in a manner they still do a hard days work in a historic cemetery, and the skills and ability to give the neighborhood kids a ride in my little 4 cylinder Dodge Roadster or Sleeve Valve 6 cylinder Willys Knight.

Some day, probably in a world beyond this one, we can share a cup of coffee and I will tell you about manning a M-60A1 main battle tank in West Germany for three years, and you can tell me about the rigors of a road trip in the luxurious lap of a car which requires a professional staff to maintain, and the income of a lawyer or judge to afford, and the balls of a guy who needs a car such as yours to provide visual evidence that there is some difference between a guy who plays golf for recognition and others who bowls for fun.

Jack

 

[Packard enthus.]

1 hour ago, Jack Bennett said:

Hi Packard…….Congratulations for pursuing a hobby as it was intended to be pursued. Your car, and your ability to drive and maintain it is the stuff of envy.  Jack

 

Not sure what the rest of your diatribe is about - is there a point in it somewhere? 

 

Please...PLEASE..... There is no reason to envy me or what I do.  (I like driving around in my Packard Twelve now, if not more than when I did sixty-plus years ago...!) 

 

Yes, people these days (not so much in recent years) think having one of the big "super cars" of the pre-war era is something special.   My memory is clear of what the public thought of us in the earlier years of the CLASSIC CAR CLUB OF AMERICA.    Indifference at best.  Outright hostility more often than not.  It was only as the 1960's went on,  did we find people beginning to think maybe we were "on" to something in preserving the "best of the best". 

 

Not to worry - time marches on.   Younger people of this present  era know what they like - the stream-lined cars of eras they can relate to.  They are no more interested in "the engineering excesses...magnificantly overdone"   ( the big-engined super-cars of the 1930's),  than I  had any sue or interest in  buck-boards and stage-coaches....

 

Was my dis-interest as a young person, in "brass" era cars.  any different from a pyschological standpoint,  than a modern young person of today, who at a modern auto show,  will walk right by my Packard Twelve to marvel over something he can relate to?

 

Bottom line - again...time marches on...things change.  Even "use-of-language changes...perspectives change.

 

Will it be many more years when I can attend a AACA meet in my "antique" Toyota RAV 4....enjoying its     "factory air"?

[Jack Bennett]

12 minutes ago, Packard enthus. said:

Not sure what the rest of your diatribe is about - is there a point in it somewhere? 

 

Please...PLEASE..... There is no reason to envy me or what I do.  (I like driving around in my Packard Twelve now, if not more than when I did sixty-plus years ago...!) 

 

Yes, people these days (not so much in recent years) think having one of the big "super cars" of the pre-war era is something special.   My memory is clear of what the public thought of us in the earlier years of the CLASSIC CAR CLUB OF AMERICA.    Indifference at best.  Outright hostility more often than not.  It was only as the 1960's went on,  did we find people beginning to think maybe we were "on" to something in preserving the "best of the best". 

 

Not to worry - time marches on.   Younger people of this present  era know what they like - the stream-lined cars of eras they can relate to.  They are no more interested in "the engineering excesses...magnificantly overdone"   ( the big-engined super-cars of the 1930's),  than I  had any sue or interest in  buck-boards and stage-coaches....

 

Was my dis-interest as a young person, in "brass" era cars.  any different from a pyschological standpoint,  than a modern young person of today, who at a modern auto show,  will walk right by my Packard Twelve to marvel over something he can relate to?

 

Bottom line - again...time marches on...things change.  Even "use-of-language changes...perspectives change.

 

Will it be many more years when I can attend a AACA meet in my "antique" Toyota RAV 4....enjoying its     "factory air"?

As a young dude, I thought it was great to chamber a 105mm tank main gun round and plink at a target 1200 meters down range.

The explosion, and massive amount of debris it created, was payment for every second of training leading up to the success of the moment.

I no longer have a tank, and the gunnery range probably closed down decades ago, but I get about the same amount of pleasure loading some, other wise benign, words into my iPad keyboard and firing them across a million mile long cypher network, and getting exactly the same results.

Isn’t the internet great in that a feeble, octogenarian can fire these words from the comfort of a couch, sip on a hot cappuccino, and get a rise from someone whom they have/never will meet in person without even getting fully dressed?

Jack

 

[Rivguy]

Why is  everybody so grouchy?  A newbie dips his toe into the water to check the temperature, and everybody stomps on said toe! Where are curious parties supposed to go for realistic advice, if not this site? All you old hands could be a bit more gentle. This guy might decide that the Essex is something that he doesn't want to get involved with, but he might decide on another newer, currently running car to join this hobby. But who wants to join a hobby where everyone is an A**H*LE? 

Experienced hobbyists know that things cost more than are expected, but sympathetic guidance is better than telling the OP- you're going to go broke!

Personally, I wouldn't spend 100,000 dollars on any car, even a new Lincoln Navigator. I get tired of hearing guys blather on about the 100K resto mod they're going to build. But hey, it's their money and their business. 

I don't know how old the OP was, but I can assure you that people my kids age, 30's won't put up with this negativity, they'll just go somewhere else. 

Happy Fathers Day, take a chill pill.

Edited June 16 by Rivguy (see edit history)

[Jack Bennett]

27 minutes ago, Packard enthus. said:

Not sure what the rest of your diatribe is about - is there a point in it somewhere? 

 

Please...PLEASE..... There is no reason to envy me or what I do.  (I like driving around in my Packard Twelve now, if not more than when I did sixty-plus years ago...!) 

preserving the "best of the best". 

 

“Spirituality” in the sense it has been associated with morality and religiosity is better addressed on a site more devoted to dogma than one which considers “addiction” to old cars as a healthy diversion in a otherwise hectic life.

But, I will direct your attention, without actually naming the source, to a book over two thousand years old, has been on the best selling list around the world over many centuries in most free countries, and is punishable by death if found in your possession by others.

The passage I allude to is named “Lamentations” and it concerns basically the same sort of pointless diatribes I post on these forums. That is, if the meaning of “lament” is drawn to include something slightly deeper than “grief”.."….and expands the principles of thought to how we talk about our daily lives.

I have absolutely no objection to anything, or any possession a person may possess or, even, covet.

I think orange hair is a bit over the top, and I also think a preacher which uses a helicopter in their Sunday sermons, is over the top.

But I neither desire, nor would waste a breath protesting against either because, to do so would be considered a “diatribe” and be considered b y any intelligent person as such.

However, if you claim to “know” me, you will have the understanding that I neither like, desire, or despise a person with orange hair, nor do I have expectations of becoming a billionaire business man, President of a country, or owning a mega-church.

Rather, I may lament my beliefs to you as a way of communication, and you may feel that I am prejudiced in some form when I am actually complimenting you on your astute ability to differentiate a “tirade” from a “lamentation”.

To me either of the two implied meanings are of little importance, but I would rather leave the forum feeling that you left a lengthy lamentation early because of some good reason than knowing that you had made up your mind, after the first couple of words that I was on (picture a insane person) diatribe.

Jack

 

 

As a young dude, I thought it was great to chamber a 105mm tank main gun round and plink at a target 1200 meters down range.

The explosion, and massive amount of debris it created, was payment for every second of training leading up to the success of the moment.

I no longer have a tank, and the gunnery range probably closed down decades ago, but I get about the same amount of pleasure loading some, other wise benign, words into my iPad keyboard and firing them across a million mile long cypher network, and getting exactly the same results.

Isn’t the internet great in that a feeble, octogenarian can fire these words from the comfort of a couch, sip on a hot cappuccino, and get a rise from someone whom they have/never will meet in person without even getting fully dressed?

Jack

 

[Rivguy]

I would like to apologize  for my harsh and negative post. I don't apologize for the sentiment, just the way that it was delivered. In trying to find a positive I offer the following.

I know that many get tired of newbie questions, which often aren't sincere and sometimes don't make any sense. Maybe  a "stickey" section that deals with the basics of restorations could be developed. It could cover topics like; selecting a car to be restored, researching parts availability, the general costs of parts and some services, such as painting and upholstery, the economic values of the finished product, etc. Maybe it could address the question of a full restoration vs. maintaining and preserving  a vehicle as original, or "just fixing it up." 

Of course a person could just do a search of the forum, but this sticky might make a good introductory section to the forum. I know that there are very knowledgeable members that could write articles for a section like that. Does that sound like a good idea?