Something to remember

[RivNut]

[NTX5467]

Might expand it to . . . "Getting ready to mine the metal, or drill for oil to make the petrochemicals to build your part.  Plus refine the diesel to transport these things to our production facility.  Provided they do not arrive at break time, during a contract issue, or power outage."  ALL of which might be a cover for "We just screwed up and didn't build enough three years ago!  Who had those original blueprints last?  They don't work here any more?  They died?"

 

NTX5467

Edited February 20 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[EmTee]

[60FlatTop]

Every Sunday the last row at the grocery store has a large display of paper products all labeled "One Billion Trees Planted". It always makes me laugh.

 

"OK, got the billion trees planted. Watcha want me to do next?"

 

[NTX5467]

Hagerty has recently started a program where you can pay to plant trees in order to offset vehicular emissions.  Very inexpensive to do!  Not unlike many funeral providers now have links to plant trees in some loved one's memory in a national forest.  We need more trees!

 

As to the paper product at the grocery store, they need those trees to supply their industry.

 

FWIW,

NTX5467

[jframe]

15 hours ago, RivNut said:

As a guy who has been in the parts business for almost 36 years, I wholeheartedly agree with this assessment!

[XframeFX]

I miss the days when driving up to my regular local auto parts jobber. After pulling stock and it sitting on the parts counter, state "Cash Sale for City of Edmonton" or other big organization for trades pricing. End-of-story!

 

I say "regular parts jobber" because if a bad experiance or they have ceased to exist, I simply frequent another store.

[XframeFX]

Get a load of this front disc brake for an Audi RS6!

My son says the light weight carbon rotors cost $10K USD for the pair!

Modern brake rotors cannot be machined. Replace only and hope no back-order when this Audi is say 15 years old.

Huge rotors inside a 21" wheel.

 

[60FlatTop]

20 minutes ago, XframeFX said:

I miss the days when driving up to my regular local auto parts jobber. After pulling stock and it sitting on the parts counter, state "Cash Sale for City of Edmonton" or other big organization for trades pricing. End-of-story!

 

A friend of mine ran a traditional junkyard for 50 years. Everyone who ever worked there or knew him would go to the parts store and say "It's for Zerniak's" they got the trade price and no sales tax. His wife told me they had been paying the tax on all those parts for years since they did not go into resale stock and accounting called them company use items. She kept telling him "Get those guys to pay the tax!" He never did.

 

He also had a rolling credit notebook in his shirt pocket with a bunch of names in it. Mine was in there all his life. Once I met my wife to be she cleaned up a lot of my "casual debt" and kept me up to date. He was always happy to see I was carrying a zero balance. Of course bringing the tall, leggy, long haired, blonde to the junkyard and knowing she kept the books made it just that much more fun.

[Hazdaz]

16 hours ago, XframeFX said:

...when this Audi is say 15 years old.

It's a modern German luxury car.... it will never last 15 years.  It will lose 50% of it's value in just 3 years and will have so many expensive repairs needing expensive parts installed with expensive, proprietary tools after the warranty is up that it will be junked long before it comes close to reaching classic car status (which is usually the 20 or 25 year point). 

No.  Thank.  You.

[Lee H]

16 hours ago, XframeFX said:

Get a load of this front disc brake for an Audi RS6!

My son says the light weight carbon rotors cost $10K USD for the pair!

Modern brake rotors cannot be machined. Replace only and hope no back-order when this Audi is say 15 years old.

Huge rotors inside a 21" wheel.

 

It’s still cheaper than upgrading your Brembos. But at least you get free shipping.

[NTX5467]

As to the Audi, I recently found a YouTube channel "I Do Cars".  The operative owns a vehicle salvage business and resells good items on totalled vehicles, it seems.  The subject of the channel is that he dismantles engines.  I found one where he took a failed Audi V-10 apart.  Unlike some engines which are very simple and easy to take apart, like the Hyundai 2.4L, that V-10 Audi was terrible.  Lots of little add-on things on the outside that were terribly-designed and could have been done differently.  YUKKK!!!  No wonder they would have a high scrap rate and very expensive to even change the spark plugs on!  Most of his videos are in the 30-35 minute range, but that Audi V-10 was well over an hour.  By comparison, the Viper V-10 was much more "normal" in getting it apart.

 

IF I ever did have the urge to have an Audi, it would be as a 3-yr lease with normal maintenance included.  In the later 1990s, I did think about an A4, but too much money for me.  He did have lots of good things to say about the Buick 3800.

 

A neat channel to watch and learn from,

NTX5467

[NTX5467]

As to the drilled rotors which many vehicles seem to have these days . . . the only way to refinish them might be "on car cutting" with abrasive pads rather than cutting them on a lathe?  Otherwise, it's replacement rather than refinish.

 

That "expense" part became evident to me when we bought a full brake set for a Land Rover we had traded for.  Several years ago, the 4 rotors and new pads were about $1400.00, dealership cost.  Of course, labor would increase that price a good bit, for close to $1700.00+ USD for a common brake job.  After that, I started to notice that we were buying a good number of "brake jobs" on newer cars which had been traded-in.

 

I then realized that these people bought the cars when they lived "in the city" as they looked good to the neighbors.  When they moved "to the suburbs and country", they needed a brake job sooner with more miles being driven/day.  Then the vehicles needed a brake job.  When they got that priced, they THEN decided to buy a new GM car without such rotors before they had to pay for the $$$$ brake job.  This scenario was operative more than one might suspect.

 

Just some thoughts and observations,

NTX5467

[XframeFX]

6 hours ago, Hazdaz said:

It's a modern German luxury car.... it will never last 15 years.  It will lose 50% of it's value in just 3 years and will have so many expensive repairs needing expensive parts installed with expensive, proprietary tools after the warranty is up that it will be junked long before it comes close to reaching classic car status

How true but, I'd adjust that 50% to about 5 or 6 years. A study on why that is when a Lexus holds its value longer? Key is probably the mentioned service work. DO NOT NEGLECT a high tech car. Allowing issues to mount while its value drops like a rock is certain death before its time. It will be worth more dismantled for parts.

Young enthusiasts with limited bank balances will stretch out the remainder of a Euro cars life (they prefer BMWs). They'll drive it with CEL on, limp mode and error codes thrown. Cheap fun at the expense of the original purchaser.

 

6 hours ago, Lee H said:

It’s still cheaper than upgrading your Brembos. But at least you get free shipping

Holy Cow - $13.8K! "Call for stock check" -  Back Order!

[NTX5467]

The words "exotic" and "low production/high investment" come into play.  Get out that "blank check".

 

People want high horsepower, super-sonic road speeds, the "vented rotors" and calipers for all to see, BIG wheels and sticky tires to make it all work.  $$$$$ follows, sooner or later.  

 

When I went to the dealer training for the 2005 Pontiac Grand Prix, they told us to NOT put a GT Comp G car out on lease.  Reason?  The HP BFGs on the Comp G car would only last about 30k miles.  So the customer would be buying tires before the 3-yr lease was up.  The normal-spec tires would last longer.  Which meant the customer did not have to buy tires during the lease, the leasing company would.  KEY distinction, he said.

 

I used to like the 1980s fwd Audis, maybe the later A4 and A6.  NOT after seeing that engine teardown!

 

NTX5467

[Rivdrivn]

Over the past 30 years or so, I’ve thoroughly enjoyed driving several high-end German cars including Audi, Porsche, and MB but always on a 3 year lease so I can deduct the business miles and give it back before it breaks. The two times I made a purchase after the lease, the car promptly broke and was extremely expensive to fix. Of all the “business cars” I leased, the one I missed the most was a Jaguar, and after all these years, now I have one again. Ford really did fix their quality issues. 

[65VerdeGS]

 

Why how generous of them...  Free Shipping!!!!

[60FlatTop]

I bought a 15 year old BMW 760 V12 when I turned 70. I am 75 now. The car had an original price tag of $125,000. Mine was very well maintained and I paid $7,200 for it, Other than routine service I bought a bottle of German leather dye to touch up the bolster on the driver seat.

 

 

I kept it for 3 happy years and sold it for $4200. Great experience, but I am a multiple car owner. If I wanted one old car (over 20 years old) I may have kept it. I knew it would be demanding to keep and take resources from other cars so I let it go without marrying it. We had a pleasant relationship instead. For $3,000 it was a pleasure. Nothing was wrong with it mechanically when I sold it but I couldn't get a drive cycle completed to reset the OBD2 monitors. I knew I was looking at a $3,000 or so trip to the dealer and decided to bow out gracefully.

 

I expect to have similar experiences in the future just as I have in the past. It was an impulse buy but supported with good historical data.

 

There are people I associate with who would be scared to death to do something like that. Like one who said three years ago "I have $10,000 cash on the barrel head and I'm looking for a good used 4WD truck. He is still looking. Bemoaning the market the other morning I asked "Well, your money is worth more than most people's isn't it?"

 

 

[XframeFX]

10 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

I bought a 15 year old BMW 760 V12 when I turned 70.

THAT'S WHEN YOU BUY THEM! Car age that is.

70? It seems depreciated Euro Cars are purchased only by the young and the old. The mid-life people pay full price through purchase or leasing, buyout or re-leasing.

 

Ask a kid before you purchase a heavily depreciated Euro car. They can tell you everything about them, problems and what to avoid. Audi RWD V8s for example, timing link and accessory drive is at the rear of the engine!

 

 

Edited February 23 by XframeFX (see edit history)

[NTX5467]

After watching the disassembly of an Audi V-10 on YouTube "I Do Cars", plus some others too, it can be very easy to see which companies have the better-designed engines.  Engines which are easy to take apart and those which aren't.  The Audi V-10 certainly fits that last description!  The Rolls Royce V-8 from the earlier 1980s was a good reason to not use cyl head studs on an engine which is not often disassembled.

 

Most of his videos are about 30-45 minutes long.  Some longer.  ALL informative and easy to watch.

 

I concur on buying cars at the lower tier of their price cycles.  Getting "good ones" is important, too, which means to do due diligence prior to purchase.

 

Enjoy!

NTX5467

 

PS -- I used to do the Susan B. Komen driving events when BMW was a name-sponsor.  Neat stuff!  One year, I opted for the 7-series V-10 sedan.  The attendant asked if I wanted a demonstration of the then-recent I-Drive system.  I said "Just show me how to start it", which he did.  I drove the specified 10 mile route, 5 miles down and 5 miles back.  After I got onto the freeway, the chimes went off.  Somebody had set the speed-minder at 62mph and I had eased over that.  When I got to the turn around exit, there had been another driver in a V-8 that had been tailing me.  When I crossed the freeway and got on the access road, after it got straightened out, I nailed it.  Feeling all of the various over-rides be active and then release at higher speeds.  The speed minder went off again after 1/2 block.  I looked back and no V-8 behind me.  I eased back onto the freeway and cruised back to the dealership.  Feeling like I was piloting a jet airliner, settled into the comfortable bucket seat.  I could own one, but the house and other things that went with it, not after buying the car.  A neat dream, while it lasted.

 

After doing that deal for several years, I got bored and discovered some of the brand's short-comings.  BUT, you could spend the day (after your initial appointment) and drive as many BMWs as you might desire, as they came back in and had no reservation on them.

 

A local car-talk show host commented one Saturday that a man he had sold Hondas to asked him about a 6-Series coupe.  He went ahead and bought it used from the local dealer.  It had a bit of wind noise on the lh side, so he took it in for an adjustment, customer pay.  He figured it would be a few hundred dollars, but discovered when he went to pickup the car, the cost was $1600.00.  He, naturally, requested an explanation.  Seems that by factory literature, there were 16 adjustments, which had to be done in sequence, starting from the first one, which comprised that complete labor operation.  Last BMW that guy bought. 

Edited February 23 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

10 hours ago, NTX5467 said:

I could own one, but the house and other things that went with it, not after buying the car.  A neat dream, while it lasted.

Same kind of experience for me. The neat dream lasted for 3 years and cost me $3,000. This reminds me of a car dealer friend who told me "In leasing a car you only pay for the part you use". I replied "But Tony, I don't want to use that part of its life".

 

To paraphrase Henry Ford in his book Today and Tomorrow, a knowledgeable knows the limitations and that can prevent them from gaining experience. I've got experience!

[EmTee]

6 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

"But Tony, I don't want to use that part of its life".

Exactly! 

[NTX5467]

When I first thought about leasing, in the middle 1970s, over purchasing a car, almost every dealer I talked to said "No lease unless you need to write-off the expenses in your business".  Mentioning doctors and such in that dialogue.  By the later 1970s, when car sales were tanking, many dealers would tout leases as they could get the car on the road for less initial costs to the customer.  I suspect that those customers did not fully know of the various aspects of having a lease, but soon found out.  In current times, when you see mention of "Low Mileage Lease", figure on 9-10,000 miles/year.  Some city dwellers can do that, but not people living in locales where driving is needed to do daily things.  OTHER "gotcha" things hidden in the fine print, too, sometimes.

 

In my advancing years, in some respects, a lease can make more sense IF I want a new car to drive.  I might can deal with the lower mileage limits as I have another car in the garage.  BUT if the terms are right, I can pay for the lease a few months after I get the vehicle, then just worry about watching the mileage/condition until the lease is up.  No monthly payments.  Hopefully less total expenditure for the lease period.  Then turn it back in when the mileage starts to get close.  Should something happen to me in the mean time, just let the leasing company have it back.

 

In the 1970s, leasing was something that companies did, not private owners.  As a result, smaller dealers tried to shift you away from leasing, as they were oriented toward "selling" instead.  One related that if they leased a vehicle, they might not get credit for that "non-sale" in their vehicle allocations.  BTAIM  So, only larger dealers had any real knowledge of these things, it seemed.

 

In the mean time, IF I buy anything, I might hope to find an off-lease vehicle so I know it meets specific cosmetic standards and has had regular maintenance.  

 

Enjoy!

NTX5467

[RivNut]

We leased a 2020 EncoreGX in April of 2020.  My wife and I are both retired and don’t have to worry about mileage in our daily lives (even when Linda was working, her commute was about 15 miles round trip daily) and we had a 2nd car for errands - my Roadmaster wagon. Then the Covid-19 pandemic hit.  We set, the car set.  At the end of the 39 month lease, we were around 7,000 miles below the allowable. Plus when we originally signed the lease agreement, GM put a residual value in for the end of the lease.  Because car prices went up dramatically during the Covid period, we bought out the lease for $5,000 less than similar cars we’re going for as send cars.  Once in a lifetime deal, but we took it. 

[60FlatTop]

For me to pay a premium price for a well cared for 10-20 year old vehicle and do most of the service and repairs myself puts me in a position similar to the car salesman back when he used to get a free demo to drive. I always figured they drove a new car at a lifetime (50 year) cost avoidance of $150,00- $200,000. My preference has provided me with an equal benefit in reliable transportation.

 

I have a wide range of business background and understand where a lot of these, seemingly excessive, cost come from. One person buying a single car has a long string of people depending on the expenses associated. From the guy who changes the juice in the Safety Clean parts washer to the lady at the window of the Department of Motor Vehicles, they all need your money to buy groceries. You can purchase a car as a commodity and save a lot or you can buy something special. It's a choice my daughter leases a Honda and my son in law bought a new BMW X5. There is a balance there that I can see.

 

 

[XframeFX]

19 hours ago, NTX5467 said:

I used to do the Susan B. Komen driving events when BMW was a name-sponsor. 

Someone mentioned BMW test?

This BMW Test center is in Thermal CA near Palm Springs. Last September, I could see from Tyler Street a gaggle of 30-50 BMWs, through the fence ready for action. The track was closed  then.

https://bmwperformancecenter.com/

 

 

 

Edited February 23 by XframeFX (see edit history)