Winton

[John Bloom]

I don't believe we have a thread on the Winton make.  I have had the fortune to see an early Winton in a collection and it is just a fabulous car with size and presence.  Most of you may know story of James Packard buying a Winton from the founder Alexander Winton.  It was August 13, 1898.  It was the 12th Winton to be produced.  James misgivings and disappointment in the car provoked him to return to Alexander Winton and express the shortcomings he felt the car had.  Too which Mr Winton uttered the phrase "If you think you can do better, than do so"....hence Packard was born a year later.  

 

Lots of stuff on here about Packards, I want to learn more about Winton.  A 1917 Winton was 3,500 dollar car, riding on a 138 in WB with a 524.8 cu inch Six.  Tires were 37 x 5.  This was a big car to rival the size of Locomobile, Pierce Arrow, McFarlan, Cunningham, and other offerings of that era.  

 

Who on the forum has had one or had experiences with them and would share their thoughts/impressions?  

 

The Scottsdale Auctions had one that was listed a few weeks ago so I was following it.  1922 Winton Model 40 Seven-Passenger Touring.

It sold pretty modestly I thought (40,320). see below.  

 

https://cars.bonhams.com/auction/29260/lot/82/1922-winton-model-40-seven-passenger-touring-engine-no-3312/

[alsancle]

Nice idea John,  I'm not sure we have a "Winton Guy" on the forum but maybe this will attract one?

 

I think by 1922 they must have been almost done?

[John Bloom]

I think you are right about year. They list up to 1924.....  and as other makes that were huge, they were starting to get smaller.
 

as for a Winton guy on the forum, there is one, I’ll reach out and see if he has interest in “pontificating”

 

 

Edited January 28 by John Bloom (see edit history)

[John Bloom]

So I've been doing a little more research into Winton.  A fascinating story and it impresses me how successful they were in those early years of the start of automobile production.  A Cleveland Ohio Manufacturer, Winton, like others, segued from bicycle production into cars.  Winton claimed to have produced over 100 vehicles in 1899 making it the highest production auto manufacturing company in the US.  In addition to James Packard, the Vanderbilt family were early owners as well, buying two in 1901.  In 1902 Winton produced the Winton Bullet (of which there were eventually three made) and set an unofficial land speed record in the US of 70 mph in Cleveland that year.  

 

Winton Bullet #1 at Smithsonian Museum

 

[tom_in_nh]

There is an 1899 and a 1901 Winton in the Larz Anderson Auto Museum collection, in Brookline, Ma.

Hope this helps. 

Tom

[West Peterson]

1 hour ago, John Bloom said:

So I've been doing a little more research into Winton.  A fascinating story and it impresses me how successful they were in those early years of the start of automobile production.  A Cleveland Ohio Manufacturer, Winton, like others, segued from bicycle production into cars.  Winton claimed to have produced over 100 vehicles in 1899 making it the highest production auto manufacturing company in the US.  In addition to James Packard, the Vanderbilt family were early owners as well, buying two in 1901.  In 1902 Winton produced the Winton Bullet (of which there were eventually three made) and set an unofficial land speed record in the US of 70 mph in Cleveland that year.  

 

Winton Bullet #1 at Smithsonian Museum

 

 

That is so beautiful. It would be nice it if could be displayed. Hey, Steve M, we need this for the AACA Headquarters lobby, stat!!

[West Peterson]

In regard to Winton, I have this set of Minnesota license plates that were registered to a 1922 Winton. The 1927 plate actually has hand-written on it "Winton," along with the Doctor's name. I also have some of the original envelopes with name and address, as several of them were never used/installed (especially during the war years). I do not know if the later plates were registered to the Winton. I don't know if it was common to transfer tags from one car to another during that period. Possible, though, especially since the owner may have been proud of the low number. Perhaps as a dig on Winton, for helping Packard get started in the industry (Mr. Packard, if you think you can build a better car, then go ahead!), I put one on our 1930 Packard Speedster.

[John Bloom]

4 minutes ago, West Peterson said:

In regard to Winton, I have this set of Minnesota license plates that were registered to a 1922 Winton. The 1927 plate actually has hand-written on it "Winton," along with the Doctor's name. I also have some of the original envelopes with name and address, as several of them were never used/installed (especially during the war years). I do not know if the later plates were registered to the Winton. I don't know if it was common to transfer tags from one car to another during that period. Possible, though, especially since the owner may have been proud of the low number.

That is very cool West. I love a good license plate display.  Hopefully some more information will come out about these great cars.   As for Steve getting a Bullet for the AACA building, they made three. Not sure where they all ended up. 
 

any idea if the Winton that those plates were registered to, the doctors car, is still around?

[West Peterson]

I was hoping the Winton stuck in the basement of the Smithsonian could be moved over to the AACA headquarters.

In regard to the whereabouts of the Winton these plates belonged to, I don't think I have a serial number of the car.

 

I don't know if Bernie Golias still frequents the AACA forum or not, but he used to. He is a Winton expert, and could certainly provide a lot of knowledge for this thread.

[John Bloom]

56 minutes ago, West Peterson said:

In regard to Winton, I have this set of Minnesota license plates that were registered to a 1922 Winton. The 1927 plate actually has hand-written on it "Winton," along with the Doctor's name. I also have some of the original envelopes with name and address, as several of them were never used/installed (especially during the war years). I do not know if the later plates were registered to the Winton. I don't know if it was common to transfer tags from one car to another during that period. Possible, though, especially since the owner may have been proud of the low number. Perhaps as a dig on Winton, for helping Packard get started in the industry (Mr. Packard, if you think you can build a better car, then go ahead!), I put one on our 1930 Packard Speedster.

Nice subtle irony with the Winton plate on your Speedster. I suppose the Packard family could circle back to Alexander Winton (were he still living in 1930), and say “let us present exhibit A to your challenge some 30 years ago”

 

that Speedster is “Special”.  Share pics often with us!

 

 

[edinmass]

I always wanted a pre 1919 Winton, they are great cars, but can pose some challenges with castings on certain models. Underrated cars that should be looked at for any collector. 

[charlespetty]

Here is a nice 1916 Winton in the Harvey G. Harper collection in Eureka, CA.  They had it out last year for the Rhododendron parade, so I know it runs.  Not sure I like the color scheme, but a beautiful car just the same.  

Edited February 2 by charlespetty
Added engine photo. (see edit history)

[John Bloom]

2 hours ago, charlespetty said:

Here is a nice 1916 Winton in the Harvey G. Harper collection in Eureka, CA.  They had it out last year for the Rhododendron parade, so I know it runs.  Not sure I like the color scheme, but a beautiful car just the same.  

Interesting car. It looks like in 1916 they offered a 138 in WB with a 524 cubic inch 6 and a 128 in WB with a 348 cubic inch 6. 
 

price ranges were 3,500-4,600 for the larger models and 2,200-3,500 for the smaller offerings. 
 

they seem to be a well engineered big platform. I’d be curious to see what the annual output/production of cars Winton was building in those years. 

[West Peterson]

16 hours ago, John Bloom said:

I’d be curious to see what the annual output/production of cars Winton was building in those years. 

2,458 in 1916

[edinmass]

1 hour ago, West Peterson said:

2,458 in 1916

Five times more than I would have guessed.......

[John Bloom]

56 minutes ago, edinmass said:

Five times more than I would have guessed.......

Me too.  That would be almost consistently 10 cars a day out the chute to be sold in a 5 day work week All year long with virtually no slowdown or stoppage.  I'm interested in how that yearly production number compared to Pierce Arrow, Locomobile, McFarlan, Cunningham, Other US Makes with large WB platforms and large Displacement engines in those years. 

 

Where are all those Wintons.....?  I wonder about their survival rate compared to the peers they had in 1916?

[West Peterson]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

Five times more than I would have guessed.......

It was their best year ever. While they survived the war, their business went down hill very quickly after the war.

[Walt G]

23 hours ago, John Bloom said:

Where are all those Wintons.

Most likely scrapped. Once orphan cars become obsolete and their parent company goes bankrupt and out of business then parts for repair are non existent. Just to take the time in that era to locate needed parts became a chore very quickly so the car itself then was not worth the effort to keep it going. I have only viewed a few in person over the decades and they were indeed grand automobiles.

[vintage1]

On the Dennis the Menace tv show there was a Winton in the episode Horseless Carriage Club. 

 

[John Bloom]

9 hours ago, vintage1 said:

On the Dennis the Menace tv show there was a Winton in the episode Horseless Carriage Club. 

 

 

Great find.  The car figures prominently in the show, lots of footage of it.  A great looking ride.  makes me want one.  

 

Truthfully, I'd forgotten about Dennis the Menace.  You have to wonder how this episode came into existence (writer or director was a fan???), and I wonder if the car is still with us.  It looks nice and you'd hope it has been kept in a collection somewhere.  

[motoringicons]

I believe the 1912 Winton in the "Dennis the Menace" was owned by a HCCA member back then. He sold the car in the 1970s or early 1980s to Phil Reed of Los Angeles (Whittier?). Reed drove the car until he was around 90-100 years old and he died around 2018. Reed was very important and involved in the HCCA. He had been national HCCA president as well. 

Edited February 5 by motoringicons (see edit history)

[8E45E]

Some Wintons in a collection in WA.

 

Craig

[jeff_a]

When I was at the Reynolds-Alberta Museum in 2007, a 1918 was near completion in their restoration bays. The engine was a symphony of polished brass, bronze, and copper. Here's a good shot of the engine compartment, Wayne Shultz narrating:

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=1918+Winton+at+Reynolds-Alberta+Museum&rlz=1CAQRFK_enUS752US752&oq=1918+Winton+at+Reynolds-Alberta+Museum&aqs=chrome..69i57j33i160l3.18873j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:5d09c830,vid:1VPLQZ4I5mc,st:0

Edited yesterday at 04:11 AM by jeff_a (see edit history)

[John Bloom]

7 hours ago, jeff_a said:

When I was at the Reynolds-Alberta Museum in 2007, a 1918 was near completion in their restoration bays. The engine was a symphony of polished brass, bronze, and copper. Here's a good shot of the engine compartment, Wayne Shultz narrating:

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=1918+Winton+at+Reynolds-Alberta+Museum&rlz=1CAQRFK_enUS752US752&oq=1918+Winton+at+Reynolds-Alberta+Museum&aqs=chrome..69i57j33i160l3.18873j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:5d09c830,vid:1VPLQZ4I5mc,st:0

That is one beautiful engine. That Winton reminds me of the Locomobile Sportif of that era. 
 

 

[jeff_a]

I saw a nice 1917 Winton for sale on PreWarCars recently. No idea where it was located or the price. Could almost be the one on the Dennis The Menace episode, though wrong year. Bernie Golias would know about this one, probably.

 

 

Everybody's been to the Reynolds-Alberta Museum in Wetaskiwin I mentioned in my last post, right?. If not, they're just on the fringes of antique car collecting. 🙂 

Centrally located, halfway between the Fountainhead Museum and the Gilmore Car Museum, and right on the same four-lane that goes through Las Vegas ( just 1,427 miles north ). 😮

 

Seriously, Stan Reynolds had a huge car collection, perhaps a thousand vehicles, and he set about preserving much of it much more successfully than a lot of collectors. He went to the government and said why don't you give me 20 million and build a state of the art museum and I'll give you your choice of my cars (and trucks and tractors and aircraft)...then the province of Alberta will have a visitor attraction between its two largest cities and the bulk of my collection won't disappear when I die.* Like lots of the Bill Harrah Collection; the 140-car Mullin Automotive Museum; the Tupelo, Mississippi collection of Frank Spain's; and the Hostetler Hudson collection in Indiana.

 

* I'm paraphrasing, but that's the gist of it. The province was flying high in petro-dollars and the money was there.

Edited 18 hours ago by jeff_a (see edit history)