Desmc14 Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 Found a leak near the fuel pump - I think it's been there for a while (month of so... noticed more fluid leaks than previously. It looked like the clamp on the 5/16 hose between the filter and the pump at the fuel pump was loose... so I tightened it, leak seemed to be less - so I replaced the 5/16 rubber hose and clamp between the pump & fuel filter- but looks like the drip comes from somewhere else - I noticed this small hole on top of the pump... looks like gas is coming from there. Is there supposed to be a hole there? - Or is it from somewhere else? - Any ideas are welcome... Many thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 That's a weep for when the diaphragm is starting to go bad. Replace it now as gasoline will get into the oil which doesn't lubricate no where near as well as oil & can destroy an engine in short order. Tom T. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmc14 Posted September 23, 2023 Author Share Posted September 23, 2023 Thanks Tom... I just let it sit and dry and them watched for the leak - there is a 2nd one of these small holes one on the firewall side and one on the radiator side and both had small droplets of gas starting to appear. So, I've found the leak. I assume the fuel pump needs to be rebuilt? Can you suggest a part source for this repair? Many thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 NAPA used to have the fuel pumps in stock. Unless the pump you have has screws holding it together a crimped pump is NOT rebuildable. Never did state year, make or model. Tom T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmc14 Posted September 23, 2023 Author Share Posted September 23, 2023 It's a 1965 Buick Riviera - 401 with AC, Carter 4bbl (in the subject title) Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 Guess I should open my eyes more to catch the little clues. '65 could have either pump. Best would be to actually look to see how it's held together. Tom T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmc14 Posted September 23, 2023 Author Share Posted September 23, 2023 I think mine is the original OEM factory pump. I may have found one at O'Reilly's and at Napa in Canada... although the US prices are much less! I need to take a good look at the one I currently have... Napa offers a few..... https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/precision-fuel-pumps/fuel-delivery/fuel-pumps---tanks/fuel-pump/fuel-pump/83db8e3f0135/precision-fuel-pump/pfp0/m23040/v/a/13725/automotive-car-1965-buick-riviera?q=fuel+pump&pos=0 or https://www.napacanada.com/en/p/DFPMF0148 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XframeFX Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 I've chased this late last year when my 35 year old crimped pump had an inlet check valve failure. Luckily, no leaks. I was lucky to find a rebuilt AC #4706 and all good now with 3/8" inlet and 5/16" outlet. In the end after examining inferior parts in a kit for AC pumps and way too much research, a cheapo pump from NAPA is next best. Your 3/8" hose will have to be adapted to the new pump's 5/16" barb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmc14 Posted September 23, 2023 Author Share Posted September 23, 2023 I appreciate your help!! I just looked underneath.. it has screws on it so is it original? Can it be rebuilt? I'd rather do that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XframeFX Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Desmc14 said: just looked underneath.. it has screws on it so is it original? Can it be rebuilt? I'd rather do that... Yes, it can and is the best option! However, search this Forum and you will find much on this. I have a rebuild kit here in Canada I could send to you. I wasn't happy with the flat diaphram vs the plunger style of my rebuilt unit. Other kits are worse. They require you to salvage the metal plunger from the old diaphragm. I purchased mine from CARS last year. Edited September 23, 2023 by XframeFX (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XframeFX Posted September 23, 2023 Share Posted September 23, 2023 https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/fuel-pump-restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmc14 Posted September 23, 2023 Author Share Posted September 23, 2023 John I appreciate this... but the rebuild looks far beyond my capabilities - lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seafoam65 Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 Just put on the stamped metal one from Oreilly's. It will bolt right on in place of the one you have, it's inexpensive and all you have to do is install it. The Oreilly's pump on my car has lasted eleven years so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnulfo de l.a. Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 11 hours ago, Seafoam65 said: Just put on the stamped metal one from Oreilly's. It will bolt right on in place of the one you have, it's inexpensive and all you have to do is install it. The Oreilly's pump on my car has lasted eleven years so far. Wow 11 yrs! Lucky you. Mine Oreily,Napa, autozone pumps would last 3 yrs max and would crap out instantly, no warning like the weep hole in the Oem pumps. Got to the point where i would carry an emergency electric fuel pump in my trunk. Have an oem one installed now. Been on for about 6 years with no problems. Car also idles better with the OEM. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera63 Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 I have 8 years on my fuel pump from NAPA. No problems. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seafoam65 Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 Just now, arnulfo de l.a. said: Wow 11 yrs! Lucky you. Mine Oreily,Napa, autozone pumps would last 3 yrs max and would crap out instantly, no warning like the weep hole in the Oem pumps. Got to the point where i would carry an emergency electric fuel pump in my trunk. Have an oem one installed now. Been on for about 6 years with no problems. Car also idles better with the OEM. I had an Oreilly's pump completely fail suddenly on my 70 Chevelle SS396....no gas leak at the weep hole, it just quit suddenly like I turned off the ignition switch, however it was 17 years old so I'm not complaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmc14 Posted September 26, 2023 Author Share Posted September 26, 2023 A friend is a retired GM mechanic. He's offered to rebuild my existing pump. But he lives 100 miles away. So I'm not sure when I'll be able to remove the old one, get it to him, along with the rebuild kit. If he lived closer he would likely remove/install it for me. John (in this thread) is sourcing a rebuild kit for me and has offered his advice - and I appreciate it. Then I'll need to re-install it. I've heard that it can be a bit of a challenge getting back in place, so I hope to do it once with the original one. I appreciate all the input. I've been lucky with this car... so far only minor issues... but since I'm not mechanically astute, my hair catches fires easily! I've tossed around the idea of selling it a few times... but not sure. I have the original Bill of Sale from my Great Aunt in April 1965. It's an amazing car. There are not many in my part of the world... not like this one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XframeFX Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 14 hours ago, arnulfo de l.a. said: Oreily,Napa, autozone pumps would last 3 yrs max and would crap out instantly, no warning like the weep hole in the Oem pumps When both, the NAPA Parts Man and myself inspect the pump on his counter and gave it a thumbs down, it's not good. Sure, it will get you back on-the-road but how long? Again, its a cheap replacement for a Chevrolet pump with Chev fittings, a Chev gasket but with a nailhead arm. I think 2 manufacturers one of which is Spectra Premium. They did not reply after I reached out to them. All from China. Ironically, for Chevrolet SBC & BBCs, there are numerous upgrade options for this application at Summit, some rebuildable. 14 hours ago, arnulfo de l.a. said: Have an oem one installed now. Been on for about 6 years with no problems. Car also idles better with the OEM. Yes. Same here. OE AC #4706 are becoming scarce. I finally located a rebuilt Unit, all good now. No need to park backed-in on my sloped driveway LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XframeFX Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 (edited) 15 hours ago, arnulfo de l.a. said: Car also idles better with the OEM. Oh, not here. Idle still terrible. No silver bullit after 3 summers of ON/OFF troubleshooting and lots of parts! Looking at my nailhead idling with the hood up, not too bad. Rev'ing the engine, excellent. But waiting at a red light,🆖! I have the idle set high after limiting vacuum advance and slightly better. But increased creep has me throwing the shifter to Neutral at a long Red Light. My Nailhead runs like a top? Not with its terrible idle. Edited September 27, 2023 by XframeFX (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 6 hours ago, XframeFX said: But waiting at a red light,🆖! How old are your motor mounts? They typically shrink and harden with age. If original (or very old) they may be transmitting more vibration than they should. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnulfo de l.a. Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 2 hours ago, EmTee said: How old are your motor mounts? They typically shrink and harden with age. If original (or very old) they may be transmitting more vibration than they should. Never considered that. Very good point thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seafoam65 Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 Having just retired from 47 years in the car repair business, I know what I am talking about. I've installed dozens of Oreilly's Spectrum mechanical fuel pumps on all kinds of GM and Ford cars. They last for a very very long time. As I stated I got 17 years out of the pump on my Chevelle, and the spectrum pump on my Riviera is 11 years old. My GTO has an original GM pump bacuse I bought five of them when they were being discontinued. They have been going bad (started leaking) after about 8 years......you can mark your calendar because that's how long the original GM pumps last on ethanol fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XframeFX Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Seafoam65 said: I got 17 years out of the pump on my Chevelle, and the spectrum pump on my Riviera is 11 years old. Yes. Simply wanted to replace with over the counter parts and be done. OK with a stamped steel arm vs AC laminated arm. But no longer having 1/8" NPTF Ports for inlet & outlet like the previous "cheap" canister pump was the deciding factor. See image above showing dual NPT ports that are no longer offered on cheap pumps. Not Like-for-Like replacement, Like-for-Less now. Edited September 27, 2023 by XframeFX (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 You can check our motor mounts easily. With the transmission in Drive, brake hard with your left foot and give the engine some gas. If the mount is bad, the engine will lift. To check the opposite side, go through the same procedure with the transmission in Reverse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XframeFX Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 9 minutes ago, RivNut said: With the transmission in Drive, brake hard with your left foot and give the engine some gas. If the mount is bad, the engine will lift. Did this last week 1 block from the tire shop. Video'd my attempt at torching 30 year old tires before new Chinese rubber. Created dual smoke and black stripes but no runaway rediculousness. Old tires still had printing between treads as if still new. I miss them already! Have yet to put 4 links of chain on driver's side motor mount for just-in-case protection. I wonder if my Twin Turbine is contributing to rough idle? Yes. RPMs drop slightly when in gear but, that's when it's bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seafoam65 Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 If the pump is correct other than 5/16 inlet all you have to do is install a brass conversion hose splicer that is 3/8 on one end and 5/16 on the other.....;...30 second fix. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmc14 Posted September 29, 2023 Author Share Posted September 29, 2023 Update, fuel pump is out... as someone posted, major pita! But,I worked from under the car without jacking it up.. argh! Removed that bracket.... hoses... hose from tank started to leak.... pretty much non-stop so I put a bolt with a clamp around it. That hose will need replacing... Do I need to drain the tank? Will it leak non-stop? So much to learn! Some photos... 2nd is the pump cleaned up - looks pretty good and the bolts still have a lot of green paint on them. Now I need the kit and rebuild it... I think I should have worn rubber gloves!! Oh well..... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gungeey Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 Factory L5 Bolts 👍 Now there's a testament to the original style fuel pumps. That's 40 YRS grime minimum. Bob, there are detailed diagrams as to how to run the fuel line properly in the Factory Service Manual. If you don't have one yet say so and I will put up a photo. You should take a look at the rear hoses and steel fuel line also. No the tank will not drain, you probably saw most of the gas already. Get your kit from: Then and Now in Weymouth MASS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 If you jack the car up that will make the job go much smoother and help to minimize the fuel siphoning from the tank. Was the pump spring loaded by the arm while removing the bolts? If so, rotate the engine to get the drive eccentric on the low side. That will help immensely when reinstalling the pump. Tom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 11 minutes ago, 1965rivgs said: If you jack the car up that will make the job go much smoother and help to minimize the fuel siphoning from the tank. DO NOT rely on the jack alone, however! Put a pair of jack stands under the frame before going under the car. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmc14 Posted September 30, 2023 Author Share Posted September 30, 2023 Thanks for the tips... much appreciated. I have the shop manual, so I'll have a look. Tom, after I removed the pump.. I put it back in to see if it would resist... It went back in easily.. so I'm hoping I won;t have to rotate the engine or anything We'll see...it likely won't be until December before I get the rebuild done.. just in time for skinned (cold) knuckles! Dad got this car from his Aunt in 1977. I'm pretty sure this fuel pump has never been touched... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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