Nate Dort Posted December 30, 2023 Author Share Posted December 30, 2023 7 hours ago, Mr. Don said: Laser-cut, Waterjet or sintered? None of the above, actually. They were made with a SLM (Selective Laser Melting) process, then glass bead blasted and heat treated. There's a good overview here: 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Don Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 Wow! What an excellent video showcasing exactly why this technology is so useful! I guess my use of the term "sintered" may be betraying my age, as that is what this sort of process was originally considered. On the other end of the spectrum, soft and flexible parts can also be made to precision, and "almost" water-clear, (depending on thickness) parts as well! Old fashioned Pattern Makers, and Modelers, we, are becoming extinct. -or so I have been told. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dort Posted January 8 Author Share Posted January 8 This weekend's project was dabbling in nickel plating. The kids and I watched a few videos, then we made about half a gallon of nickel acetate solution. Plated some of the parts for the e-brake lever that showed evidence of having been previously plated. Stripped them all down with evapo-rust and a brass wheel. Most of the parts are pretty pitted, but I'm not sure they were ever perfectly smooth anyway due to the casting process. The same parts on my '22, which has lived an (arguably) easier life, don't look much better. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stude Light Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 12 hours ago, Nate Dort said: This weekend's project was dabbling in nickel plating. The kids and I watched a few videos, then we made about half a gallon of nickel acetate solution. Plated some of the parts for the e-brake lever that showed evidence of having been previously plated. Stripped them all down with evapo-rust and a brass wheel. Most of the parts are pretty pitted, but I'm not sure they were ever perfectly smooth anyway due to the casting process. The same parts on my '22, which has lived an (arguably) easier life, don't look much better. Nate, the key to any plating is starting with a highly polished surface before the final nickel and to agitate during plating. I used the Caswell kit but your homemade system should work just as well. To fill pits start with copper plating. Certain metals require copper first. Sand the copper afterwards, plate again and buff. Then use nickel - you'll like the end product. Here is a post I made. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dort Posted February 11 Author Share Posted February 11 Not much progress to report over the past month. Still waiting on the backordered Lock-n-Stitch kit to come from the manufacturer so I can repair the crankcase. I've been spending what little free time I have on some of my other hobbies, namely repairing audio equipment (guitar amps and the like, I've got a Leslie speaker I'm tackling right now) and songwriting with my band. However, I did get the transmission assembled and painted, so that feels like something. I did 3 coats of gloss black appliance epoxy with a rattle can. Goes on easily, dries rock-hard. I'm going to make a new shifter knob out of a 2" sphere of maple I found online. I don't want to mate the transmission to the engine until I get the stitching done, and even then, I'd rather wait until I'm closer to maiden voyage time so I don't have to worry about the clutch getting stuck to the flywheel while it sits, so I need to check off a lot of other boxes first before I bolt this thing on. It has been too busy and/or cold to do much of anything to the car sitting in the garage. I really should be using this time to work on the rear end. The brakes need to be relined, and I should probably inspect the inside of the differential. Maybe not completely dismantle it, but at least flush it and stick my borescope in there. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainey Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Many years ago, I stopped at an antique store in rural Michigan and found a box full of old Dort family photos. It also included some photos of the Durant family. I donated all of them to Kettering University and they have them in their archives at Factory One in Flint. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dort Posted April 9 Author Share Posted April 9 I thought I would be working on stitching the broken section of crankcase back together these past few weeks, but Lock-n-Stitch is still backordered on the threaded pins that I need, even after telling me otherwise and shipping the rest of my order. It has been 7 months. They're saying May 1, but I'm not holding my breath. Getting any answers out of them has been like pulling teeth. Lots of miscommunication and ignored emails and phone calls. I'm pretty unhappy with the whole experience, but I don't really have an alternative. In the meantime, I started looking at the rear end this weekend. Pulled the wheels and the right side looked OK, at least mechanically. Left side was caked with grease inside. The brake liners are obviously shot and need to be replaced, but I already knew that. I then tried to drain the fluid from the differential, but there wasn't really any fluid to speak of. There were, however, a couple of larger chunks of metal that came out with the drain plug, so I decided to pull the whole rear end. The torque tube came off easily enough, and the pinion gear looked good. Inside the differential was a different matter... Nearly every tooth is broken on the spider gears. Side gears look OK, as does the large ring gear, but I'll inspect them closer once I get the whole thing disassembled. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dort Posted April 15 Author Share Posted April 15 Spent most of the weekend degreasing and disassembling the rear axle. I made a DIY hot tank with a trash can and my natural gas burner that I typically use for homebrewing. The small parts went into the ultrasonic cleaner: I need to figure out what to do about these spider gears. There's gotta be something off-the-shelf out there that will fit, but it's going to be hard to figure that out. I'll likely end up having new ones machined. Somebody had also gone a little crazy on the pinion end of the torque tube at one point. This tapered bearing sits in adjustable "sleeve," for lack of a better term, which is used to adjust the pinion-to-ring gear engagement. Everything still rolls pretty smoothly, but I'd still feel better about replacing that Timken 348 bearing. I also need to replace the "propeller shaft steady bearing" inside the third member yoke. It's a Babbitt bearing, but it's currently in pieces. I guess the model T guys replace these with brass/bronze. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
human-potato_hybrid Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 For the steady bearing, how is it oiled? Is there a seal in front of it to keep the oil in? I would imagine so if the original is babbitt. If so, I don't see much of a problem replacing it with Oilite. Oilite was not a thing until the 30's. Just keep in mind that babbitt is a better bearing material. Depending on the load, you may need a longer Oilite bushing than the original babbitt was. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dort Posted April 15 Author Share Posted April 15 There's a felt seal in front of it. I'll likely replace that with a modern neoprene seal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
human-potato_hybrid Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 8 minutes ago, Nate Dort said: There's a felt seal in front of it. I'll likely replace that with a modern neoprene seal. Yeah felt seals are garbage. Even say in the 50's they had these felt seal + single lip seals; single lip for grease retention and felt to keep out the dirt. These can be replaced with a single modern seal. Example modern seal. Called an auxiliary lip seal or something https://www.skf.com/my/products/industrial-seals/power-transmission-seals/radial-shaft-seals/productid-20059 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
human-potato_hybrid Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 If you give me ID, OD, and thickness I can find a replacement seal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsbrassnut Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 Hi Nate Always watching for updates on your Dort project. I ran across this Dort wiring diagram and electrical description in a Dykes manual from c1920 recently and thought you might find it of interest. It may not cover yours, but perhaps it may still have some useful information. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dort Posted April 18 Author Share Posted April 18 2 hours ago, nsbrassnut said: Hi Nate Always watching for updates on your Dort project. I ran across this Dort wiring diagram and electrical description in a Dykes manual from c1920 recently and thought you might find it of interest. It may not cover yours, but perhaps it may still have some useful information. Thanks Jeff. My 1927 Dyke's manual removed that section, likely because it was out-of-date and the company had folded by that point. I have a similar diagram of the Dort Connecticut system from the Standard Auto-Electrician's Manual, but it doesn't have nearly as much written description, so that is helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dort Posted June 7 Author Share Posted June 7 Took a quick trip to Chatham, ON, Canada today (about a 90 minute drive from me) to visit Stan Uher. He's the go-to guy for Gray Dort stuff. Here's his 1915 next to my daily driver: He found a pair of good spider gears for me: Along with a U-bracket I was needing for the rear leaf spring, and a pair of rear fenders to replace the Model T fenders that are currently on my 1920. I'll likely be leaning on him pretty hard as this project moves along, as he has a lot of the parts I'll be needing. I've already given him a list. 😄 My parts from Lock-n-Stitch finally arrived 9 months after I ordered them, so I also spent the last week slowly stitching the broken piece of the engine crankcase back on. Still have some cleanup to do and some thread inserts to install, but it feels like it should hold. Working on relining the brakes, then I can get the rear axle reassembled and installed. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1lark Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 Nate, if you get a chance, I would really love to see a pic of the finished stitching. Thanks! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dort Posted June 8 Author Share Posted June 8 Still need to finish dressing the surface a bit and shaping that JB Weld. Neither of the machined surfaces, front or back, are supposed to be exposed to any fluids, so a paper gasket should be plenty. I'm also going to shoot a couple coats of paint on it after I get the timing cover installed. I did the one-pin-at-a-time method since the crack areas were too short to use their fixture. Took longer, because I had to dress each pin flat before I could install the next one and there were more tooling changes (drill, spot-facer, then tap). But it turned out well. I also installed their locks across the cracks to add extra strength. I used the front timing cover to keep the broken piece mounted in the correct position while I installed the pins on the generator side. Once that was done, I made a bracing plate out of a chunk of scrap steel to hold it from the generator side while I removed the timing cover and installed pins and locks from the front. The broken piece was always secured in the correct position while I installed the pins, so there wasn't any chance of it getting cockeyed. This should prevent the timing cover or generator, once they're torqued down, from putting any strain on the former crack. 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike "Hubbie" Stearns Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 Looks great! Great job! Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1lark Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 Thanks Nate for the pics. I didn't know this was a process that can be done at home. Great job! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dort Posted June 9 Author Share Posted June 9 There's some old, but useful videos from Lock-n-Stitch on youtube. I watched them a few times before diving in. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dort Posted June 16 Author Share Posted June 16 Thread inserts installed at the crack. Got the timing cover installed and painted. It also looks like 32 mm x 52 mm x 10 mm shaft seals will work in the rear axle to replace the felt seals. Just need to clean up the surface of the axle shafts in that mating area. Took the kids to the Sloan Museum in Flint on Friday. They have a restored 1922 Dort there: 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dort Posted June 18 Author Share Posted June 18 Quick and dirty "lathe" I rigged up so I could turn the axle shafts and polish the area where they'll meet the new viton oil seals in the axle tubes. I ran them through four grits of emery cloth, 150 - 400 grit. Before and after: 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tate Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 Nice work! I always enjoy the updates. Your Dort is very fortunate to have you as a caretaker. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-mman Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 On 6/16/2024 at 2:34 PM, Nate Dort said: also looks like 32 mm x 52 mm x 10 mm shaft seals will work in the rear axle to replace the felt seals I don’t know, but something to consider. I have been told that the felt seal design did more than just seal, they were also the vent for the axle. The story is that when people change to a modern seal that actually seals, the leakage increases due to increased pressure inside the axle forcing the lubricant out. The cure is that when using a modern seal you need to drill a hole to create a vent to equalize the pressure. This has been discussed in the technical pages. Perhaps you can search or ask there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dort Posted June 27 Author Share Posted June 27 Good point, and it is a thing I have considered. My plan is to add a vent, probably by drilling an axial hole through one of the torque tube mounting bolts and fitting a cotter pin through it to keep junk/bugs from getting in there but still allowing pressure equalization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-mman Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 50s & 60s cars have a pipe with a loose cap crimped over it. some have a rubber hose slipped over the pipe then, the hose is tucked up in/on the frame at a level higher than the axle. Getting a vent from a 50s - 60s axle housing might make your work easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
human-potato_hybrid Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 My 55 Packard has modern seals but a rear axle vent. Just a simple breather that threads in the top of the rear axle, middle of one side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dort Posted July 1 Author Share Posted July 1 Rear axle has been reassembled. Sealed the two halves with RTV, but not before adding a small 1/8" NPT breather to the top of the case. Might get around to painting it this week. My next major task is to figure out how to replace the old Babbitt bearing at the gearbox end of the torque tube. The shaft itself is pretty worn in that area, so my thought is to take it to a machine shop to get the shaft cleaned up and then a matching oilite bronze bearing pressed in there, similar to what I did to the transmission shaft and gears. However, it's a big bearing, approximately 1.3" ID x 2" OD x 3" L. I'll probably visit them next week to see what they say. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dort Posted July 3 Author Share Posted July 3 Started prepping the engine bay in anticipation of reinstalling the engine. Removed the radiator and its shell. Lots of rust inside. There's a supposedly good radiator shop near me in Ferndale, so it's going to get dropped off there at some point soon. I dropped the exhaust. Muffler was trash. Somebody had installed a Cooper exhaust cutout at some point. I'll also need to weld that crack in the flange. Opened up the Jacox steering gear and found a bunch of dried up oil. Warmed it up with a heat gun and tried to rinse/scrape out as much as I could with some solvent and a small screwdriver. However, it looks like a portion of the bronze threaded half-sleeve may have broken and jammed down in the main cavity. Not quite sure yet, as I've never worked on one of these and I'm not sure what they're supposed to look like, but it appears there's a chunk of something in there that doesn't look like it belongs. Either that, or it's way out of adjustment and that lower half-sleeve is at the bottom of its travel even though the wheels are straight. I've got a spare steering column with one of these attached, so I'll pop off the cover on that spare and compare. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahti35 Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 3 hours ago, Nate Dort said: There's a supposedly good radiator shop near me in Ferndale, so it's going to get dropped off there at some point soon. If that's the one near 8 Mile on Woodward you will find no better in the state of MI. Stepping into the front door is like stepping back in time. Last time I was there Mel had everything from brass era radiators up to Model A and more in the works. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
human-potato_hybrid Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 On 7/1/2024 at 2:52 PM, Nate Dort said: My next major task is to figure out how to replace the old Babbitt bearing at the gearbox end of the torque tube. The shaft itself is pretty worn in that area, so my thought is to take it to a machine shop to get the shaft cleaned up and then a matching oilite bronze bearing pressed in there, similar to what I did to the transmission shaft and gears. However, it's a big bearing, approximately 1.3" ID x 2" OD x 3" L. I'll probably visit them next week to see what they say. Can you send a picture of this? Babbitt bearings are still used, and will wear less than oilite when properly lubricated. Of course, they didn't have oilite in 1920, so if they also didn't design very good lubrication for that bearing, an oilite substitute would make sense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dort Posted July 4 Author Share Posted July 4 5 hours ago, human-potato_hybrid said: Can you send a picture of this? Babbitt bearings are still used, and will wear less than oilite when properly lubricated. Of course, they didn't have oilite in 1920, so if they also didn't design very good lubrication for that bearing, an oilite substitute would make sense. I don't have a good shot of the bearing itself as it was in pieces and is gone now. It would have originally been two halves, but you can see one of the halves broke into at least two pieces here: It likely wasn't maintained with enough grease, as the shaft is ridged now and will probably need a few hundredths taken off to get it smooth again. I think an oilite bearing will work fine for the couple hundred miles / year this vehicle will see and the low RPM of this shaft. There's a provision for a zerk fitting on the outer yoke, which would allow me to get some lubrication in there occasionally so it doesn't run completely dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 (edited) A zerk would not really be a good idea for Oilite. Grease just plugs it up. Oilite might be OK with either nothing or with an oil wick. Maybe an oil cup. If you are going to grease it maybe 660 Bronze and some grooves to let grease in would be better? I don't know. If using oilite, there are multiple types. If it sticks to a magnet, don't use it. The magnetic type is stouter, but really tears things up when it's internal oil charge finally runs out. Edited July 6 by Bloo (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dort Posted July 5 Author Share Posted July 5 On 7/3/2024 at 8:31 AM, Nate Dort said: Either that, or it's way out of adjustment and that lower half-sleeve is at the bottom of its travel even though the wheels are straight. I've got a spare steering column with one of these attached, so I'll pop off the cover on that spare and compare. This was the case. Didn't need to look at my spare, it was pretty obvious once I got the wheels off the ground and started turning the steering wheel. The pitman arm was apparently off by a few teeth on its spline, which meant I wasn't quite getting full travel when I turned the wheel to the left. This is what it looked like with the front wheels pointing straight. The worm gear was already about 2/3rds of the way through its travel. I disconnected the pitman arm (needed a bit of heat and some PB Blaster), turned the steering wheel until the worm gear was in the middle of its travel, turned the front wheels until they were straight, then cleaned and lubed the splines on the pitman arm and tightened everything back down. Made a new paper gasket for the steering box cover, then I refilled the steering box with 00 weight oil (Cotton Picker Spindle Grease from TSC) and a little graphite/moly assembly lube. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 Re: that Babbitt bearing. Is it possible their is no seal on the rear of the gearbox and they intended a bit of gear oil to leak out and lubricate the bearing? I don't think grease is the proper lubricant for Babbitt...if there is a threaded hole for a zerk fitting it probably held one of those pin fittings with two prongs (I'm having a senior moment and can't remember what they are called) but those were properly used with heavy oil rather than grease. That would have been more appropriate for a Babbitt bearing. If there is a hole I'd use a bronze bearing and with an oil fitting rather than oilite. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dort Posted July 5 Author Share Posted July 5 There's definitely a hole for lubrication, and it's shown in the manual. It originally had a grease/oil cup on this model year, but they went to the two pin alemite fittings in '21. The fitting was intended to lube the yoke that fits over the tube, and there is a hole to allow some inside the tube and through the babbit (it was drilled too). Maybe a few oil grooves in the bronze might be the best bet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dort Posted July 8 Author Share Posted July 8 Rear axle painted and ready for reinstallation: 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dort Posted July 14 Author Share Posted July 14 Axle and passenger side brakes reinstalled. Picked up new welder so I can repair some damaged parts on the driver side. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 Looking good! But I can hardly wait for you to replace those model T fenders. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dort Posted July 19 Author Share Posted July 19 You and me both. I have a set of correct rear fenders now, but they're going to need a bit of work to clean them up. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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