1964 AC question

[Deanoko]

I ordered a new fan clutch which ended up not fitting over the hub of my fan.  The flange was too big.

I've got an asymmetrical 18" 5 bladed fan.  The car was ordered with factory AC.  I'm wondering what others have (stock)?

I've heard 6 bladed fans were used. 

[NTX5467]

The 4-slot hub fan clutch is what the fan clutch manufacturers went to, in the middle 1980s, to replace the dedicated-drilled solid hubs which the OEMs typically used.

 

Perhaps there is a larger-hub OEM fan, from a later model year, of the same diameter, which can fit the new clutch assy?

 

NTX5467

[telriv]

Originally the fan blade was  5 blades & 20" in diameter.

[Deanoko]

Mine looks OEM 5 asymmetrical blades, but 19" at best.  I wonder if it's a '65 that came with the transplanted LT code 401?

[RivNut]

Is it the clutch that will not fit on the water pump or the fan that will not fit on the clutch. This is the first instance I’ve heard of this situation. Earlier years had different length pumps but I don’t think any had different diameter centering posts.

[Deanoko]

The fan open hub will not fit over the clutch base.  Coincidentally both the water pump shaft flange and the clutch base are 2.32".  The repop ones are 2.6" with slots.  Earlier in the thread I provided photos of what I've got.

I see C2 Corvette ones for $160 that look identical to what I have, so it's not some aftermarket thing.  Build date 10D 63.  Factory AC. 

[RivNut]

Check some of Jim Cannon’s old threads. He posted a brand and part number that is a bolt on.

[Riviera63]

1 hour ago, Deanoko said:

The fan open hub will not fit over the clutch base.  Coincidentally both the water pump shaft flange and the clutch base are 2.32".  The repop ones are 2.6" with slots.  Earlier in the thread I provided photos of what I've got.

I see C2 Corvette ones for $160 that look identical to what I have, so it's not some aftermarket thing.  Build date 10D 63.  Factory AC. 

Here are fan clutch brands and numbers that I have gleaned off of the Forum through the years as fitting our 1st generation cars: Imperial 215049, NAPA 217301 and Murray 2705.

 

Bill

Edited August 11, 2023 by Riviera63 (see edit history)

[Deanoko]

I found a direct for replacement yesterday at AutoZone:  their Duralast 22038 or 22045  It's a 61-67 Corvette part,  but it's what I needed.  (The 22045 actually shows to fit 64 Riv 7 liter) All installed.  Now just trying to get the little rubber nubs of the new U shaped radiator mounts to go into their holes, so the radiator can go back in.  Tough to get to.  A little slippery stuff will help. 

Edited August 12, 2023 by Deanoko (see edit history)

[EmTee]

1 hour ago, Deanoko said:

Now just trying to get the little rubber nubs of the new U shaped radiator mounts to go into their holes, so the radiator can go back in. 

Put the skinny end through the hole and then grab it with a pair of pliers and carefully stretch it and pull it through.  A spritz of Windex or something like that might help, but I usually haven't needed to use any detergent.

[Deanoko]

Yes, that's my plan.  I have the bottom and rear nubs in on both sides and only am working on the forward ones.  They can't be accessed from underneath, so having to work over the radiator core support being careful not to ding the AC condenser. 

[Jim Cannon]

4 hours ago, Deanoko said:

I found a direct for replacement yesterday at AutoZone:  their Duralast 22038 or 22045  It's a 61-67 Corvette part,  but it's what I needed.  (The 22045 actually shows to fit 64 Riv 7 liter) All installed.  Now just trying to get the little rubber nubs of the new U shaped radiator mounts to go into their holes, so the radiator can go back in.  Tough to get to.  A little slippery stuff will help. 

Limited Lifetime Warrantee. That's nice.

 

 

[Deanoko]

All back together.  I forgot how much I dislike the OPG fan shroud, which is too short and doesn't engage the lower tangs very well.  I had to severely hog out the upper mounting slot or else it wouldn't fit at all!  It's a good inch + short.  For the money it should fit perfectly!

I cried when I cracked the original.  I guess it got a bit brittle over the near 60 year run. 

[XframeFX]

33 minutes ago, Deanoko said:

I cried when I cracked the original.

I was furious when a tow truck snapped my new fan shroud back in the late '80s. I had just replaced it!

35 minutes ago, Deanoko said:

I had to severely hog out the upper mounting slot or else it wouldn't fit at all!

Mounting slot? Pictures? I keep forgetting to look at other AC equipped G1 Riviera's in this area. I replaced that broken new fan shroud with a used piece and safety wired the bottom corners temporarily. Then left it that way for 30 years.

This week, 1 lower saddle had a rubber tipped tab and the other had no saddle at all which I had removed to accommodate the radiator drain. I found a saddle in my stash but no rubber tipped tab. The latter is for a non-AC car?Fan shroud had slots on the side (image has shroud sideways). Shouldn't those slots be on the bottom for those rubber tipped tabs?

 

I attached yellow coated straps to those side slots running forward around the front on the AC Condenser. Not original but Shroud fits good now.

[Jim Cannon]

What was the part number for the new fan clutch that you first got that did not fit?

 

I know I have suggested Imperial 215049 in the past, but after a bit more research it appears that Imperial 215046 is the better clutch to use on our cars, if you have room for it. It is about 1/2" taller (sits closer to the radiator core) than the 215049.

 

You can also use a Hayden 2947. It is a lower profile heavy duty clutch.  Same company that makes Imperial.

 

The Duralast 22045 looks like it is made by US Motor Works, their part number 22045.

 

RockAuto.com has many of these.

 

[RivNut]

2 hours ago, Deanoko said:

All back together.  I forgot how much I dislike the OPG fan shroud, which is too short and doesn't engage the lower tangs very well.  I had to severely hog out the upper mounting slot or else it wouldn't fit at all!  It's a good inch + short.  For the money it should fit perfectly!

I cried when I cracked the original.  I guess it got a bit brittle over the near 60 year run. 

Just another example of poor OPGI quality.

[1965rivgs]

14 hours ago, Deanoko said:

I found a direct for replacement yesterday at AutoZone:  their Duralast 22038 or 22045  It's a 61-67 Corvette part,  but it's what I needed.  (The 22045 actually shows to fit 64 Riv 7 liter) All installed.  Now just trying to get the little rubber nubs of the new U shaped radiator mounts to go into their holes, so the radiator can go back in.  Tough to get to.  A little slippery stuff will help. 

  That looks like a heavy duty fan clutch. If so, you will experience a substantial increase in fan noise with an accompanying loss of power as compared to the OEM fan clutch.

Tom Mooney

[Deanoko]

When I refill the coolant and reconnect the trans lines I will be able to do a road test, but since it's the same size as what was replaced, and determined by the radiator guy to be "weak", I don't expect to see much difference.  It's "only" supposed to be 95° today... News at 11.

[Deanoko]

10 hours ago, Jim Cannon said:

What was the part number for the new fan clutch that you first got that did not work? 

Jim, James at Best Offer Counts on eBay is who I bought it from.  No part number was listed.  The listing link is below.  It had a much bigger diameter and if I could have gotten my fan over the mounting flange I don't think the bolt holes for the fan would have lined up 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/232459551768?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=HlB0bNvxS8O&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=h9rhYDBHSAW&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

[Deanoko]

10 hours ago, XframeFX said:

I was furious when a tow truck snapped my new fan shroud back in the late '80s. I had just replaced it!

Mounting slot? Pictures? I keep forgetting to look at other AC equipped G1 Riviera's in this area. I replaced that broken new fan shroud with a used piece and safety wired the bottom corners temporarily. Then left it that way for 30 years.

This week, 1 lower saddle had a rubber tipped tab and the other had no saddle at all which I had removed to accommodate the radiator drain. I found a saddle in my stash but no rubber tipped tab. The latter is for a non-AC car?Fan shroud had slots on the side (image has shroud sideways). Shouldn't those slots be on the bottom for those rubber tipped tabs?

 

 

See the photos below.  There is 1 vertical slot at the top arch to attach the shroud to the bracket up there.  That's what I had to elongate.  There are also the 2 slots at the bottom which fit into the "AC only"  tabs pictured.  The shroud should be long enough for them to slide right in but I'm going to have to ziptie them down.

[RivNut]

With the shroud in this position ( zip tied) does the mounting hole at the shroud line up with the hole in the radiator support bracket? And is the fan centered in the shroud?

Edited August 13, 2023 by RivNut (see edit history)

[Deanoko]

Not without elongating the mounting hole on top, upwards, all the way to where the horizontal top - decal area is.  Otherwise it would be even shorter on the bottom slots.  The alignment is OK, and the fan clearance is good, but for the better part of $200 they should have done a perfect fit.  I may have taken a photo of the OEM and repop side by side.  I'll have to look.  I know I complained to OPG with no response. 

Edited August 13, 2023 by Deanoko (see edit history)

[1965rivgs]

1 hour ago, Deanoko said:

When I refill the coolant and reconnect the trans lines I will be able to do a road test, but since it's the same size as what was replaced, and determined by the radiator guy to be "weak", I don't expect to see much difference.  It's "only" supposed to be 95° today... News at 11.

  If the old fan clutch was indeed "weak" I would expect to observe a difference in operation.

Tom 

[XframeFX]

13 hours ago, Jim Cannon said:

I know I have suggested Imperial 215049 in the past, but after a bit more research it appears that Imperial 215046 is the better clutch to use on our cars

 

3 hours ago, 1965rivgs said:

That looks like a heavy duty fan clutch. If so, you will experience a substantial increase in fan noise with an accompanying loss of power as compared to the OEM fan clutch.

So, My Fenco #FFC5049T purchase back in 1991 is OK? It appears deep enough in the fan shroud.

Tom M, which Fan Clutch is HD? I always found the Fan roaring upon cold start before kicking it off fast idle. Would prefer a looser (weaker) fan clutch for economy. We never have over heating issues in Canada.

 

LOL on a 1963 Jaguar XKE Fan, just a lame 2-Blade non clutched Fan! No overheating issues in the UK as well?

 

I have attached the Fan Clutch Receipt showing P/N and how typical parts purchases were always at "Trades Prices". Today, no Trades Prices, no senior's or club prices. Just full price to for the part and a cut to UPS courier and maybe you'll receive what was ordered.

[Deanoko]

1 hour ago, 1965rivgs said:

  If the old fan clutch was indeed "weak" I would expect to observe a difference in operation.

Tom 

My expectation is that the HOT light will not come on, with a refreshed radiator and fully functional fan clutch. I watched the radiator flow like a fire hose, in the shop.  

There are still 2 unknowns:

1. Did I install a 5 vaned water pump or a 3 vane in the fresh 425?  At the time of assembly I had no idea there were 2 varieties. 

2. At what actual temp does the HOT light come on? I am investigating adding a Bluetooth temp sender into the plug in the left head so I can get some actual useful information sent to my phone. 

[Jim Cannon]

49 minutes ago, XframeFX said:

 

So, My Fenco #FFC5049T purchase back in 1991 is OK? It appears deep enough in the fan shroud.

Tom M, which Fan Clutch is HD? I always found the Fan roaring upon cold start before kicking it off fast idle. Would prefer a looser (weaker) fan clutch for economy. We never have over heating issues in Canada.

 

LOL on a 1963 Jaguar XKE Fan, just a lame 2-Blade non clutched Fan! No overheating issues in the UK as well?

 

I have attached the Fan Clutch Receipt showing P/N and how typical parts purchases were always at "Trades Prices". Today, no Trades Prices, no senior's or club prices. Just full price to for the part and a cut to UPS courier and maybe you'll receive what was ordered.

John, that Fenco clutch is a standard duty thermal clutch and is perfect for Canada. It will start out spinning the fan on start up, but as the silicon oil inside the clutch spins out to the sides of the clutch, the fan speed will greatly reduce.  Only when the face of the clutch gets to about 170*F will the clutch start to engage again. So for most of your driving, the clutch is only spinning the fan at about 20-30% of water pump shaft RPM. If it gets hot, the fan will speed up to about 60-70% of water pump shaft RPM.

 

[XframeFX]

On 8/13/2023 at 12:23 AM, RivNut said:

Just another example of poor OPGI quality.

Again, where is SEMA in all of this?

It seems their only exposure are their annual November parties in LAS and being on their e-mail distribution.

 

Also again, the receipt above shows "Wholesale Cash Sale" for parts that truly "Meet or Exceed OE Specifications". Back then, if I were to pay FULL Price for project parts, I'd probably pick another hobby.

 

Thank-You Jim for sharing your knowledge on how a fan clutch operates. I now know as well.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2023 by XframeFX (see edit history)

[Turbinator]

Gents, Tom Telesco suggested I install a one ton GM truck fan clutch severe duty in my 63 Riviera. The clutch fan is quiet and if any power was diminished using the truck fan clutch I don’t know about it. Tom T drove the car with me 2000 miles round trip. Tom T would have said something if there was something not right. 

So, I’m sure there are instances when power is diminished with HD fan clutch in other cars. Nothing surprises me.

[RivNut]

4 hours ago, Turbinator said:

Gents, Tom Telesco suggested I install a one ton GM truck fan clutch severe duty in my 63 Riviera. The clutch fan is quiet and if any power was diminished using the truck fan clutch I don’t know about it. Tom T drove the car with me 2000 miles round trip. Tom T would have said something if there was something not right. 

So, I’m sure there are instances when power is diminished with HD fan clutch in other cars. Nothing surprises me.

Manufacturer and part number? That would be a great help.  

[Deanoko]

The clutch I bought (noted earlier) is quiet and I don't romp on the gas pedal enough to tell any hp difference   The test will be when it hits 105° again and I can see if the HOT idiot light still comes on.  Recall that I also had the stock radiator cleaned out from a bunch of "guck".

[Deanoko]

Mine is an AutoZone bit.  It is identical to my one with supposed issues.

Duralast 22038.  It had the smaller flange that my fan hub would fit over and the correct bolt pattern for the fan to clutch mating.  Shown as being for 64 Corvette, since none of the Buick ones fit.

Not interested in the truck one since I am "matchy-matchy" here.