1951 buick i think.

[altonbrwr68]

i just recieved a car from my dad and im a little confused about what year and model it is can anyone please help. 

[KURTRUK]

A picture of the car would help,😉but we should be able to de-code it with this body tag.

on the line that says STYLE No 51-451(_)  I think there should be one more digit that we can't read in this photo.

[rocketraider]

I think this is a 1951 Buick Super Riviera long wheelbase sedan. A "step up" from the "regular" Super sedan.

 

Standard Catalog of American Cars 1946-75 identifies body style number 51-4519 combined with model number 52 as such, on a 125.5" wheelbase. A "regular" Super sedan on 121.5" wheelbase would be model 51, body style 51-4569.

 

The 4519 Riviera sedan's base price was roughly $200 higher than the 4569 car, yet the 4519 outsold the 4569 by 9 to 1.

 

I think you've come into possession of a pretty cool car. Visit the Buick Forums farther down the page for like-minded people and excellent information and advice.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Glenn is right on.  1951 Super Mod 52, Riviera Sedan..  Four door, 3 inch, I believe, longer than the Mod 51 Four door. 

 

  Ben

[altonbrwr68]

Sorry i thought i added the other photos as well. i also have the original bill of sale im the 3 owner. 

Edited January 12, 2023 by altonbrwr68 (see edit history)

[Barney Eaton]

Interesting model and why did they make it?

In 1951 shy of the Roadmaster Buick had the following 4 dr sedans... 

51-41    Special 121.5 WB   production 999

51-41D Special  121.5 WB         "        87,848

51-51  Super      121.5 WB        "        92,886

51-52  Super     125.5  WB       "        10,000

The Roadmaster 4 dr  was model 51-72R  the wb was 130.25 with a production total of 49,758

Again why did they make it,  the wb was not shared with any other Buick that year,  a unique car. 

 

Did notice that in 1950 the 50-52 Super with the 125.5 wb sold  114,745

Why did the 1951 version fall on it face production wise? 

 

[altonbrwr68]

so barney if im reading this right are you saying that buick only made 10000 of my car ? and if so what would somthing like that be worth 

[Barney Eaton]

Rarity is only one piece of the formula that values a vehicle. 

What condition would you rate the car?

From the limited pictures,  It might be a #4 (good) under the Old Cars Price Guide. 

But to be safe it is surely a #5.     

The other problem is Old Cars does not list that model but a #5  Super 4 dr = $5,000

A #5 Roadmaster 4 dr is listed for the same $5,000

In  #1  condition (better than showroom)  they are both listed at $25,000

I am attaching a poor copy of the Old Cars rating........ I could not get it copied better, the other setting made it almost black. 

 

[altonbrwr68]

Thats cool im not wanting to sell it just trying to decide if i want to upgrade the 6 volt system to 12 or leave everything stock. im really wanting to restore it and show it just not sure what all i should change or do. im new to this whole thing. so any help would be appreciated. 

Edited January 12, 2023 by altonbrwr68 (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

With all due respect, I believe Barney has some numbers inverted.  Per  the book   Seventy Years of Buick,   page 227, The Model 52, Riviera 4 door sedan had the 92,886 production,  the Model 51, tourback sedan had 10,000.

 

  So, no, not rare. Yes, desirable to Buick fans. It is 125.5 inch wheel base versus 121.5 for the Mod 51, same as Special.  The extra 4 inch is in the rear seat area. Trim is a little better. 

 My take on value.   Running, driving, stopping ,  about a #3 from what we can tell,  maybe $10,000.  Maybe.  Rusted out floors and/or other rust, cancer, not running,  $3000. tops.

 If you are NOT an old car guy, perhaps pass it on.  If you are, get it running, stopping, and enjoy.  The Dynaflow will not excite you at first. It will feel as if it is slipping. DOES NOT SHIFT as does a Hydra Matic. BUT put it beside an Olds or ford or other car of that day and STAND on it and watch the other guy in your mirror.  That engine is pretty responsive when in good tune.

 

  Nice car. One which I would be proud to own.

 

  Ben

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

18 minutes ago, altonbrwr68 said:

Thats cool im not wanting to sell it just trying to decide if i want to upgrade the 6 volt system to 12 or leave everything stock. im really wanting to restore it and show it just not sure what all i should change or do. im new to this whole thing. so any help would be appreciated. 

 

 Alton, if you plan to mostly show it, probably best to leave the voltage as is.  If you decide to drive it, as I do my 1950, you will never be sorry to change. My 1950 was changed and I am very happy. I am not a  "show and tell " guy. As far as 6V goes,  large enough battery cables are necessary.  Cannot be bought over the counter. 12V cables are  4GA I believe. 6V needs  00GA, . About thumb size.  Really clean connections, hot and ground.

 

  I hope you drive the heck out of it.

 

  Ben

[rocketraider]

6v worked fine in 1951 and will today. As Ben says, heavy gauge (at least 0 gauge or even better, 2/0 or 4/0) battery cables and clean connections are the key. Batteries for these old Buicks are easy to find at a farm supply store since there are still plenty of tractors using them. You may also find an 8v battery option.

 

Biggest drawback to 6v is it can't support a modern radio or air conditioning, should you want those. 6v lamp bulbs might be iffy to find too but once you start meeting other old car owners you'll find they have "sources".

 

I think those minor inconveniences offset the trouble and aggravation of doing a 12v conversion correctly and in a workmanlike manner. But I've seen too many wiring hack jobs...

 

Make sure to visit the Buick Forums. Lot of knowledge and good people there.

[altonbrwr68]

thank you guys for all the help and support im excited to start on this car. im thinking about buying the conversion kit to change to 12 volt . and making it a driver not just a shower. any other info you guys can pass on i will need it lol. 

[JACK M]

I suspect that your dad would have preferred that you leave it stock.

[rocketraider]

2 hours ago, altonbrwr68 said:

im thinking about buying the conversion kit to change to 12 volt 

Just be aware of what you're getting into. Battery, starter, generator and charging system (6v alternators are available), gauges, fuel tank sending unit, bulbs, and I'm probably forgetting something. It all has to be changed and I wouldn't trust just anyone to do it.

 

If you go through with it, study a 1953 or later V8-equipped Buick's electrics, which are 12v systems. But I think with correctly sized battery cables, good clean connections and a well sorted generator and voltage regulator, a 12v conversion is unnecessary.

 

Don't buy into the mentality that an old car can't be drivable or safe unless everything's "updated" to be the same as a new car. People who think that way don't know what they're talking about, to be kind.

[The 55er]

Here's another vote to retain the stock 6 volt system in your Buick. I have owned at least a half dozen old car long term year round daily drivers (mostly GMs including a 1952 Buick Super) with 6 volt systems. I would NOT convert to 12 volts, you will just be creating additional problems. Make sure all your wiring connections are clean & tight and install new correct gauge 6 volt cables if necessary. Finding replacement 6 volt bulbs & fuses would be the least of my worries. Good advice on these Forums!

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Alton, I don't agree completely with the rest of the guys.   It is not difficult to change. I have had no problems associated with the change to 12V.  Many pluses. 

 On the other hand it is probably cheaper to stay with 6V unless you NEED 12V. 

 

  I will be happy to visit with you and share my experiences.  On the open forum [here],  in messaging or by phone.   I drive my 1950 ANYWHERE  anytime.  

 

  Ben

[altonbrwr68]

So i have done some research and i think im going to switch it to a 12 volt system. after talking to my father about it.

we both agree that 12 volt would be more practical for a driver. i found a kit that includes everything i will need to change it over. 

it doesnt seem like it will be that bad to change over . then my plans are to redo the brake system and fuel system. 

i also need a new floor mate the one that was in it is gone . and i need a new chrome strip one of mine is bent. 

 

Is there any other problems that is common for these cars that i should know about. 

 

Ben i would like that alot i know im going to have alot of questions about this car im a mechanic but not to familiar with old buicks. 

 

[Larry Schramm]

On 1/12/2023 at 3:11 PM, rocketraider said:

Don't buy into the mentality that an old car can't be drivable or safe unless everything's "updated" to be the same as a new car. People who think that way don't know what they're talking about, to be kind.

 

I agree.  We drive our pre WW1 cars all of the time.  We put over 1,600 miles on our 1913 last year alone.  Several hundred miles on our 1915 Buick truck.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

23 hours ago, altonbrwr68 said:

So i have done some research and i think im going to switch it to a 12 volt system. after talking to my father about it.

we both agree that 12 volt would be more practical for a driver. i found a kit that includes everything i will need to change it over. 

it doesnt seem like it will be that bad to change over . then my plans are to redo the brake system and fuel system. 

i also need a new floor mate the one that was in it is gone . and i need a new chrome strip one of mine is bent. 

 

Is there any other problems that is common for these cars that i should know about. 

 

Ben i would like that alot i know im going to have alot of questions about this car im a mechanic but not to familiar with old buicks. 

 

 

 First, let me say this.  The other guys, Larry Schramm, rocket rocketraider, are correct.   I just happen to believe some changes are ok.

 While a "kit" is available to change to 12V, one is not necessary. I did not use one. Too ignorant to know one was available.  It was documented in my refurbish thread but a six year segment of that thread has gone awol.

  I have driven 20,000 plus miles since changing.  

 

 

  Alternator.   Over the counter GM 1 wire from parts store.

   Starter.        The six volt one will work. Spins FAST.  After several years, the drive gear {bendix?} broke. Replaced starter with

                         a 12V mini from Tom Telesco.

   Change ALL bulbs.

    Use a voltage reducer for the power to the fuel gauge.

    12V battery is available almost any where.  Depending on your cables, changing may be necessary due to posts being near             center of battery instead of near the ends.

      I  bypassed the Amp gauge. Simply removed the charge wire from the regulator and attached to the "out" post on the gauge.

       Installed Volt meter.

        Voltage reducer needed for the heater, radio, defroster.  Lighter works ok on 12.

         Assuming wire is all GOOD it will be adequate. I had already rewired, using one gauge larger for everything.

 

  It is early and I have had only one cup of coffee so may have missed something.

 

 Should you elect to retain the six, or change,  MAKE CERTAIN CABLES ARE LARGE ENOUGH AND GROUND CONNECTIONS ARE CLEAN. I had already used , for the 6V, larger than original cables. still using them for 12V. Overkill is better than too small.

 

If I think of additional items I will post them. Questions??  Fell free.

 

  Ben

     

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Alton, just a thought.  Farther "down" is the Buick section of these forums. Therein is  Me and My Buick section. You will get a LOT more Buick folks down there.  Perhaps ask a moderator to move this there or start a new thread. 

 

  Good luck

 

  Ben

[pont35cpe]

Back in 1964, i changed a 1947 Chevy to 12v. I put generator, voltage regulator, along with the 265 V8, trans, and rear end, all from a 1955 Chevy donor car. Used all the existing wiring in the `47, changed all bulbs to 12v. I used a set of 1956 Oldsmobile gauges, installed in original gauge cluster of the `47. No voltage reducers at all. I also installed the heater/defroster from the donor car. I drove the car 12yrs, then my younger brother got it, he has had it 45yrs, and still drives it today. The horns i didn`t change, and you talk about loud, 6v horns on 12v are great..

[Oldtech]

If you use the original gages the main issue is the fuel gage. If it is like a Chevy you need a 39 Ohm resistor in the line from the tank. Filling station has. Likely others.