1908 International Harvester Auto-Buggy

[Paul Dobbin]

_{^{One advantage of being a old car nut, is knowing other people with the same afflictions and interests.   Last summer I had a chance to go to a friends barn and help awake a  1908 IH Auto-Buggy after years of hibernation in a Museum.   On day one, we got it to start and run,    On later visits, with new oil lines they}}

_{^{drove it in the fields and up an down the roads.   Amazing!   Now it's for sale, a true horseless carriage.}}

_{^{https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/international/harvester/2616962.html#&gid=1&pid=17}}

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by Paul Dobbin
added picture (see edit history)

[Lahti35]

Amazing! 

[Mark Shaw]

Paul,

     Hopefully, you will get to enjoy a one & two cylinder tour someday.  My 1908 Model F Buick is the one getting gas at about 4 minutes into the video:

 

[1937hd45]

Nice to see the whip socket is still in place in the event it becomes one horse powered. 

[Billy Kingsley]

There's a 1907 here locally, it's the oldest car I've seen driving under its own power.

[Dandy Dave]

13 hours ago, Billy Kingsley said:

There's a 1907 here locally, it's the oldest car I've seen driving under its own power.

I've seen that one at the Rhinebeck Meet.

[Paul Dobbin]

On 1/4/2023 at 4:46 PM, Billy Kingsley said:

There's a 1907 here locally, it's the oldest car I've seen driving under its own power.

    The lead mechanic who helped get this Auto-Buggy going has a 1905 Queen.  Which I hope to post a video of a ride in this summer.

[wayne sheldon]

I love that IH ! I wish I could afford it. Even if I could afford it, I probably wouldn't buy it. Where I am at in my stage of life, I couldn't be the best caretaker for such a nice almost totally original car. Frankly, I would want the car to have a better person than I could be at this time.

I almost bought an IH about twenty years ago. I had the money, and was second in line to buy the car. It was a bit newer, a 1912 MW model, running but needing a lot of improvement for the wooden body. I did get a ride in it and loved it! But the first in line bought it once they knew someone else was ready and willing.

[John Kelso]

At the tender age of 14 my mentor Bob Garlock took me to a Swigart Museum meet about 40 miles away, we left home at 6 driving his 1909 IHC. I think of several times I looked down and saw rabbits passing us, once even a turtle. what a great trip. When we arrived Carl Amsley was there already in his Stanley having driven it over 60 miles . As we pulled in Carl said" Boy, you ready for a ride in a real car?" As we took off in that Stanley, my life changed forever.

[Mark Shaw]

On 1/4/2023 at 12:01 PM, 1937hd45 said:

Nice to see the whip socket is still in place in the event it becomes one horse powered. 

Not a whip socket.  

[Paul Dobbin]

30 minutes ago, Mark Shaw said:

Not a whip socket.  

  What would you call it?  A whip holder?  Bracket?

[wayne sheldon]

6 hours ago, Mark Shaw said:

Not a whip socket.  

 

 

Picture 10/21 on the webpage linked.

 

Truth be told, I am not sure?

 

 

[Mark Shaw]

Maybe a socket for a top of some kind.  They didn't put whip sockets in Horseless Carriages.

This is the whip holder from my grandfather's horse drawn milk delivery wagon.

 

[Paul Dobbin]

Must be a after market accessory, maybe from the previous buggy, because they still had the horse.

[wayne sheldon]

Whip sockets is one of those old legends that got blown way out of proportion over the years. I know that a few early automobiles did have them. And I have seen a few early era photos where they can be seen (I doubt that I could find one quickly?). I clearly recall seeing photos of a very original Curved Dash Oldsmobile that had a whip socket on it.

When I started reading books on automotive history (in grade school!), whip sockets and the horseless carriage with a horse's head mounted on the front were mentioned in most of the books at that time. Over the years, I learned that there was ONE company that actually built ONE high wheel type automobile with a horse's head on the front (it was supposed to calm the other live horses). As far as I have been able to find out, there was never a second one. Whip sockets were only slightly less overblown. I am not certain that any automobile manufacturer actually supplied the cars with a whip socket. I do know that after-market accessory manufacturing and selling companies did offer them. They would offer all sorts of silly things!

 

I wouldn't expect IH to provide one as late as 1908. But it would not surprise me to find that an early owner would have added one. I would love to have an early car with a whip socket. I have thought about trying to find one for my early gasoline carriage. But that is pretty low on my priority list.

This IH appears to have the standard top used on many Autowagons or Autobuggies. The body's top mounting irons can be seen on the sides of the front seat in several photos. As such, I don't see how that bracket could have anything to do with the top.

 

Such a wonderful automobile regardless!

[Dandy Dave]

That socket is for subborn mule control to pull it home when it breaks down, or get stuck in a ditch, or in a creek that one needed to pass though. 😊

Having grown up around Draft Animals you really did not need a whip all that much with a properly trained animal. With oxen, all one needed to do was lay the whip on one side or the other to have them steer the way you wanted. With a draft team of horses or mules just a tap to let them know it was time to go is all it took if one was a little lazy. With donkeys they would walk along fine and then decide to stop and sit for a spell. That is just the way it was. Most of the time all one needed to do was talk to them. Get Up, Whoa, gee, and haw were the commands. My Dad broke hundreds of animals to drive. He never whipped them like you use to see in old western movies. That is just pure animal abuse. He spoke softy to them and they did what he wanted them to do.

I believe it is a whip socket. I've seen that style on wagons and buggies before. 

Edited January 12, 2023 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[8E45E]

On 1/8/2023 at 4:58 PM, wayne sheldon said:

Whip sockets is one of those old legends that got blown way out of proportion over the years. I know that a few early automobiles did have them. And I have seen a few early era photos where they can be seen (I doubt that I could find one quickly?). I clearly recall seeing photos of a very original Curved Dash Oldsmobile that had a whip socket on it.

When I started reading books on automotive history (in grade school!), whip sockets and the horseless carriage with a horse's head mounted on the front were mentioned in most of the books at that time. Over the years, I learned that there was ONE company that actually built ONE high wheel type automobile with a horse's head on the front (it was supposed to calm the other live horses). As far as I have been able to find out, there was never a second one. Whip sockets were only slightly less overblown. I am not certain that any automobile manufacturer actually supplied the cars with a whip socket. I do know that after-market accessory manufacturing and selling companies did offer them. They would offer all sorts of silly things!

VW's optional "silly thing" might just fit that Whip Socket!!  https://www.timmonsvw.com/the-history-of-the-beetles-bud-vase/

 

Craig

[1937hd45]

On 1/8/2023 at 5:52 PM, wayne sheldon said:

 

 

Picture 10/21 on the webpage linked.

 

Truth be told, I am not sure?

 

 

Thank you for enlarging that part of the photo! If not a whip socket maybe it is a repurposed flag mounting bracket. 

[AHa]

I think it is a whip socket. They were mounted in or on early cars when there were dogs that liked to chase cars present. The dogs could get caught under the wheel and be hurt or killed. The whip would keep them away from the wheels. This was not a problem in every town or village so whip sockets were never standard equipment.