DELCO-REMY DISTRIBUTOR 663-Y REBUILD (Step-By-Step photo guide to the 663-(?) Distributors)

[Bloo]

Do you mean the little piece of felt under the rotor? It's an oil wick.

 

Edited October 22, 2022 by Bloo (see edit history)

[Oldtech]

Doubt if there is a spec for end play so as long as it's free with a slight rattle it's good. The felt "brake" as you call it is an oil wiper. Sposed to put a drop on it once in a while.

[Rock10]

52 minutes ago, Bloo said:

Do you mean the little piece of felt under the rotor? It's an oil wick.

 

No, the felt piece that goes in the side of the housing under the spring and screw. It's shown as the shaft brake in the drawing at the start of this thread.

 

END PLAY

I tore down 3 units. There is a washer stack described by Gary W above. two had the thrust washer plus two steel shim washers, one had the thrust washer and only one steel washer. The steel washers are shims and were available in .005 and .010. I just wondered if there was a spec I could measure before I put them back together.

Thanks

 

[Bloo]

Oh that thing!

 

I don't know, and I never knew it was called a brake. My 36 distributor had something like that under the grease cup. My only guess would be to keep the shaft and gear from bouncing in the gear lash as the drag changes when the points open and close. I can't imagine it having enough friction to be very effective if that is what it is doing. Hopefully somebody else knows.

 

[Rock10]

Both the 36 663F and the 37 663Y have them.

Of the 3 I have, only one had a plug of hard felt left. The other 2 looked like just the spring was left in the hole.

[Oldtech]

Yes, I see what you are referring to. As Bloo says, I imagine it is to hold a bit of friction so the gears don't rattle if there is backlash. 

[Rock10]

Is there a source for a mounting gasket for the distributor?

[Gary W]

I got mine from CARS,INC.  (Oldbuickparts.com). This one says 1934 - 1952:

 

[Gary W]

Distributor Data Tag:

 

I thought this would be a good place to insert a parallel discussion on the Distributor Data Tag:

 

If your data tag is hopelessly deformed, bent, missing...  Bob's sells a reproduction tag for the Delco-Remy distributor.  There are two styles:

1. A "two-window" style that has the Model # in the left side window (663-Y) and the serial # in the right window (The one I used here)

2. A "one-window" style that has one large window that has both the model # and serial #.

 

If you are going to keep your original tag, I recommend covering it with tape prior to using a wire wheel to clean the distributor as the metal is so thin it'll be ruined.

Keep it covered for the painting process and just use the "paint and wipe" technique (or a sharpie marker) afterward to restore the color and text.

 

Here's the discussion:  (Just touch the arrow in the upper corner)

 

 

 

And another parallel discussion about the various tags and the changes:

 

 

Good Stuff!

Edited October 31, 2022 by Gary W (see edit history)

[Rock10]

I found some oil wick material at McMaster-Carr that should work great.

I had to buy 5 feet of each so if anybody needs a few inches, let me know. I also still have some spare steel balls for the breaker plate if needed.

3/16 for the shaft brake and 3/8 for under the rotor.

Does anyone know how long the piece for the shaft brake should be?

I had to drive the hardened pieces out of all of my old units. 2 were only about 1/8 inch and the other was maybe 3/8. None of them had functioned for a long time.

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Rock10 (see edit history)

[Gary W]

Update to the distributor build :    Roll Pin swapped for solid 1/8" Steel Rod

 

When I rebuilt the distributor, I received some good advice:

 

On 10/14/2022 at 3:08 PM, edinmass said:

FYI- The split pin can walk and wonder. I would only use a pin that is staked in place. 

 

I originally used split roll pins to attach the gear to the shaft.  Even though I was able to spread the ends of the roll pins, I ultimately ended up removing the split roll pin and replaced it with 1/8" steel rod.  I got the steel rod from Home Depot, cut it to about 1-1/4".  I worked one side in the vise and using heat and a rivet set, I was able to form a nice head on it.  Then I slid the rod through the gear and shaft, heated the protruding end and peened it so there is no way it can slip out.  Thanks for the advice!  Always appreciated.

 

A couple photos:

 

I cut the rod, secured it in the vise and heated it.  I first used a punch to create the dimple which mushroomed the edges out.

Then I was able to use a rivet set (rivet punch?) to form a head on it.  

 

 

Then over to the distributor gear.  I slid the new rod in and basically did the same thing freehand to peen the other side.

Admittedly, the original side looks a lot nicer, but it is secure now. 

 

Gary

 

 

Edited November 18, 2022 by Gary W (see edit history)

[Rock10]

I just did the same thing to the ends of the roll pin. I think it should be OK.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

2 hours ago, Rock10 said:

I just did the same thing to the ends of the roll pin. I think it should be OK.

 

There are different grades of roll pins.  I KNOW.  Use a high quality one . Please. Mine has been in several years and many thousands of miles.  The first, not so long.

 

  Ben

[Rock10]

The pin that holds the shaft is not under that much strain is it?

I've seen other models of distributors that use roll pins for both holes from the factory.

[edinmass]

4 hours ago, Rock10 said:

The pin that holds the shaft is not under that much strain is it?

I've seen other models of distributors that use roll pins for both holes from the factory.

ask yourself this simple question, why did the factory do it the way they did. There is a reason. 

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

5 hours ago, Rock10 said:

The pin that holds the shaft is not under that much strain is it?

I've seen other models of distributors that use roll pins for both holes from the factory.

The gear is turning both the distributor and the oil pump.

  I used an off the wall one.  It broke.  I was lucky and was able to, by being careful, retrieve the gear without dropping the pan. There are good high quality available . They will be blue/black. The silver colored ones are NOT adequate.

  Ed, were roll pins even available 1950s and back?

 

  Ben

[edinmass]

Not sure when roll pins were available, but I have never seen one on a pre war car.

[Rock10]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

ask yourself this simple question, why did the factory do it the way they did. There is a reason. 

I don't know that roll pins were available back then.

[Rock10]

30 minutes ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

The gear is turning both the distributor and the oil pump.

  I used an off the wall one.  It broke.  I was lucky and was able to, by being careful, retrieve the gear without dropping the pan. There are good high quality available . They will be blue/black. The silver colored ones are NOT adequate.

  Ed, were roll pins even available 1950s and back?

 

  Ben

The upper pin only turns the distributor shaft. The bottom one turns the oil pump. I would only use a solid one on the bottom.

[Rock10]

https://www.menards.com/main/hardware/fasteners-connectors/specialty-fasteners/metal-fastening-pins/midwest-fastener-reg-1-8-x-1-tension-pins-1-count/80665/p-1444440041415-c-8902.htm?tid=-2826937121539166089&ipos=37

 

[edinmass]

The problem with roll pins is two fold. They tend to walk and your using it on a moving part. Two…….I have no clue about the shear capacity of a roll pin compared to a solid pin. What I am 100 percent certain of, is the engineers of the day knew what they were doing……..and know a whole bunch more about such things than I do. Quite simply, I have seen too many failures on things from just small changes. It’s not worth the risk. Remember when working on a car for a customer……you NEVER gamble with the result.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

15 hours ago, Rock10 said:

The upper pin only turns the distributor shaft. The bottom one turns the oil pump. I would only use a solid one on the bottom.

 

 Well, bless my soul!    At first your post made no sense!   Upper and bottom?   What?    I then went back and looked at Gary's story and sure "nuff",  two pins!   Am I mistaken on mine?  Happened before.  SO, checked a couple spares I have.   ONE pin.  The shaft has a tang that drives the oil pump instead of the bottom pin in Gary's picture.  I wonder when they changed?

 

  Ben

[Rock10]

All of my 663s have two pins.

[pont35cpe]

24 minutes ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

 

 Well, bless my soul!    At first your post made no sense!   Upper and bottom?   What?    I then went back and looked at Gary's story and sure "nuff",  two pins!   Am I mistaken on mine?  Happened before.  SO, checked a couple spares I have.   ONE pin.  The shaft has a tang that drives the oil pump instead of the bottom pin in Gary's picture.  I wonder when they changed?

 

  Ben

Ben, my `36 dist. 663 has 2 pins, and what i think is a `37 distributor (1110801  1E13) has 2 holes in the drive gear, pin in the top hole, nothing in the lower hole. Distributor shaft is longer, the tang is actually the end of the distributor shaft. You state Garys `37 has 2 pins, so my `37 distributor may not be a `37. Maybe someone can tell me what i have. Trying to help narrow of when they changed.

[Rock10]

1110801 is for a 1938 (all series) through 1948 (most series) at least. That's as far as my book goes.

[pont35cpe]

53 minutes ago, Rock10 said:

1110801 is for a 1938 (all series) through 1948 (most series) at least. That's as far as my book goes.

Thanks Rock.. So `38 must have been the year of the change, no lower pin, and longer distributor shaft.

[Rock10]

[Rock10]

Can anybody tell me what kind of fitting was supposed to be used on the copper line for the vacuum advance on a 1936 series 40 distributor?

The car came with a kind of distorted flare, but that doesn't look like what should work in the fitting.

I have a picture of the proper advance unit for the car and of the fitting that came on the car.

The unit looks like it might take a compression fitting.

Thanks

[dibarlaw]

Rock: I believe it is called a DOLE fitting. I found some at a local NAPA to take care of a few I needed on my 1925 Buicks. Check with McMaster Carr or Fastenall.

[Rock10]

Thanks

I have some of those called threaded sleeves.

The one from the car is 3/16 tubing and 5/16 thread. and It has a short nose.

All I can find in 5/16 thread are 1/8 " tubing with a longer nose that doesn't want to start threading.

What size tubing was used for vacuum advance?

 

Edited March 5, 2023 by Rock10 (see edit history)

[Bloo]

The sizes you see them listed by don't go by thread, they go by tubing size. 5/16" is for a 5/16" gas line.

 

For what it's worth, I think it takes a threaded sleeve (and probably originally steel bundyflex), and that end in your pic is just unexpainably mangled. I guess the tubing must have not fit in the hole and it got squished. My 36 Pontiac has a vacuum advance that looks exactly like that, and it takes a threaded sleeve. It's a tiny one though, definitely not 5/16". Maybe 1/8" or 3/16". I learned on this forum that in Australia they commonly call them Dole fittings, but that will get you blank stares in the US. The small ones for vacuum advance lines were commonly used a lot more recently than the others, so maybe you would get lucky at an auto parts store (but not where I live).

 

https://blackhawksupply.com/collections/plumbing-brass-fittings-double-compression

 

 

Edited March 5, 2023 by Bloo (see edit history)

[Rock10]

Thanks

I have some of those for both the 1/8" and 3/16" tubing.

The one for the 1/8" tubing looks right but the nose is too long to let the threads start. The 1/8 tubing fits inside the hole, the 3/16 does not. the 3/16 fitting is too big for the hole.

The car has 3/16" tubing from the carb to the advance unit.

Edited March 5, 2023 by Rock10 (see edit history)

[Bloo]

Hmm. I wonder if you might be missing a part? If the car was here, I would take it apart and look. If it's threaded sleeve, the tubing that fits down in the hole is going to be the right one I think. Damaged threads?

 

[Rock10]

Possible, but I have 2 here and they are the same. The 1/8" tubing does fit in the hole. Is that the standard size for the Vacuum advance?

A new 1/8 threaded sleeve will only go about 1 turn before it gets hand tight. I'd be afraid to try and tighten it for fear of stripping the threads.

It seems the nose is too long. It is compared to the old one, but that must be the wrong tube size anyway.

[Gary W]

22 hours ago, Rock10 said:

Can anybody tell me what kind of fitting was supposed to be used on the copper line for the vacuum advance on a 1936 series 40 distributor?

My vacuum advance unit has this set up:

 

Assembled.  The 1/8" tubing goes through to seat into the vacuum advance unit

 

 

5/16" outer nut secures it in place

 

 

Here you can see how much the 1/8" tube protrudes into the vacuum advance unit

 

 

The opening accepts the 1/8" tube down in there.  

 

 

I thought this was a compression-type fitting to hold the tube secure and create a tight vacuum

 

 

The O.D. of the tube is 1/8" from the carburetor to the vacuum advance.

 

 

Gary

[Bloo]

Is that one turn just with your fingers?  If so it might be OK. I'm not going to tell you to force it, but these do have to compress around the new tubing and bite into it, so it's going to have more threads after it is put together. In fact, with a new nut you have to tighten it more than you normally would to make the nut bite into the tubing. Maybe it might go in a lot before it starts to bite? I wouldn't reef on it with only one thread though.

 

The Pontiac is miles away and stored for winter or I would just go look. I do know the tuning has to go in that hole a little beyond the seat. A normal used fitting has just a little bit of the tubing sticking out beyond the seat. It has to fit in that hole. Where else could it go?

 

Here is a pic of one on a piece of butchered fuel line that might have come off of my car. I think a maybe little bit less tubing than normal is sticking through here(?) but the tubing that sticks through is straight and at the original diameter. No squishing or bulging like in picture of the fitting you posted.

 

 

EDIT: @Gary W posted while I was typing this. It works exactly as he has shown, and stellar pictures too! 👍

 

 

Edited March 5, 2023 by Bloo (see edit history)

[EmTee]

FWIW, Gary's setup looks like the one on my '38...

[Rock10]

Thanks guys.

That answers my questions.

The 1/8" tubing is correct and so is the fitting. I just need to let it compress on the tube.

Not sure why the line from the carb is 3/16", but I can make a rubber hose connection work.

Gotta love the people here.

[Bloo]

It is 3/16"? You can change that if you want. The fitting is typically threaded into pipe thread. Since it is unlikely the distributor end has changed since the mid 30s (it's just like mine and @Gary W's), the carburetor probably just has the wrong threaded sleeve to pipe fitting screwed into it.

 

Edited March 6, 2023 by Bloo (see edit history)

[black89lotus]

Stupid question.but here goes..I would think that my distributor would pull right out after the hold down bolts were removed..but no go!  Can anyone think of a reason why it wont pull right out

Thanks!