1920 Buick K45 Touring $7K Not Mine

[Leif in Calif]

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/1920-buick-touring-rare-top.1251143/

Looks like a great preservation candidate! 

[B Jake Moran]

Thanks. Frank Wilkies car.  He has it posted here

[Buick35]

Awfully tempting! I've got someone that might buy my MG for that much,I hope but not holding my breath.Then I'd have to talk the wife into it.

[B Jake Moran]

With all due respect to Frank, the all weather top is an issue for me.  There is no convertible frame available, you would have to go out and get one.   I am not interested in the all weather top affixed as it is to the car.  I appreciate it's historical significance.  1920 was still a time when most cars sold were open cars.  But this quickly eroded as the 1920's went along. 

 

To fill this market gap, manufacturers introduced these neat all weather tops.  However, as a collector most of us prefer an "experience" when owning a 101 year old car, it is no longer used for daily transportation.  So, for me, I would remove the all weather top but then I am vulnerable to heat, rain, and so on as this car has no convertible top framing.   I suppose they can be found, or manufactured.  

 

 

[1912Staver]

Buick parts are reasonably common. I think the top hardware would be found with a bit of hunting. Much of it is wood and usually needs replacement anyway. At least the mounting posts are still there. Otherwise it looks like a decent deal. I am with you on the fixed top. Buick sold a lot of these cars and I see parts for them reasonably frequently at swap meeets. I have a 1918 6 - 45 so always looking for Buick bits and pieces at the meets. I have a partial spare top but it is for a Canadian McLaughlin. It fits in the same spot but is different than a U.S. Buick top. It's also for a 1918 - 21 and slightly different shape at the rear than a 1922 - 23 top. 

[63RedBrier]

I really LIKE this Buick!  I like it because it HAS the all weather top!  It would take me two days or more to drive out to IL to pick it up, plus another $800 or more in diesel fuel.  I have been thinking about it for awhile.  Replace windshield, replace interior/seat covers, maintain what is there, have fun! 

[B Jake Moran]

23 minutes ago, 63RedBrier said:

I really LIKE this Buick!  I like it because it HAS the all weather top!  It would take me two days or more to drive out to IL to pick it up, plus another $800 or more in diesel fuel.  I have been thinking about it for awhile.  Replace windshield, replace interior/seat covers, maintain what is there, have fun! 

Hey I'm not saying don't buy it if it speaks to you.  It is an artifact for sure.  I think Frank has the original bill of sale for the top.  Still can be thoroughly enjoyed and when you take it to a car show, you educate everyone on a time in automotive history.   Open some eyes.   

[wmsue]

Great looking car.

Not having a title stops me from even beginning to consider it.

 

 

Bill

[m-mman]

43 minutes ago, wmsue said:

Not having a title stops me from even beginning to consider it.

Back in the 70s the lack of a title meant little to nothing. Old Cars were commonly transferred on a bill of sale and many times they were not even registered. A collector maybe had one or two legally licensed plates that were swapped between 5-6 cars.  I guess times have changed. 

 

I see titling a car no differently from any other part of a restoration.  Yeah it takes a little knowledge and skill but once you know how to navigate the system anything can be done. The deeper you are into old cars the easier things become. 

 

"Where do I get parts? I went to Auto Zone and they dont list anything"

"The engine is stuck, That means that it will never run and is only usable for parts"

"It has rust. I cant weld and know nothing about sheet metal. So I guess that it cant be fixed"

 

Each one of these common old car barriers can be overcome using knowledge and techniques that are known to the old car community but can be a real brick wall to those who are further from the hard core car circles. 

Examples:

No Auto Zone isnt going to have anything for a 90 year old car, find the contacts who do

Yes un-sticking an engine can maybe be a nightmare or sometimes it can be rather simple. you just talk to the people who will share the techniques about how they did it. 

Patch panels are great. Welding is the right way, but until you have developed the skill set then maybe screwing down some license plates can give you a floor again. 

 

Titles are a "legal" thing and that scares people but there is ALWAYS a way to make a car legitimate in every state. Hassles? sure. Time? of course. Money? maybe, but a solution can always be found just like the other restoration barriers.

 

And titling usually much easier than; critical missing parts, stuck motors and severe rust. 

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by m-mman (see edit history)

[Gearheadengineer]

M-mman, great perspective on the title issue. I hadn’t looked at it like that before. But then, I live in a state that is good for beginners (no title on old cars).  Still good to keep in mind. 

[wmsue]

Not trying to hijack this thread...because I really like this car too.

 

I guess you're not upon Ohio Law.

No Title Upon Sale in OHIO

"The State of Ohio discourages any vehicle purchase that is not executed with a certificate of title. Additionally, the state does not allow bonded or surety titles, which are used to record provisional proof of ownership in most states around the country. If you have purchased a vehicle without a title and the seller is unavailable or unwilling to apply for a duplicate certificate of title, the Ohio BMV suggests that you contact a county title office, which reviews vehicle purchases without titles on a case-by-case basis."

 

It can be done, but ....

I like the car but I don't love the car.

 

Bill

 

 

 

[Leif in Calif]

Everybody says California is the worst, but I bought a '51 Simca a few years ago that had the wrong VIN (serial) number and wrong year on the title. It took a little effort (I had make an appointment for the Highway Patrol to inspect it) but the information I printed off the internet was sufficient to get it straighten out. 

[m-mman]

17 hours ago, wmsue said:

I guess you're not upon Ohio Law.

Titles AND REGISTRATION in any state can always be done and here is why.

 

The state really doesnt care about "ownership". Unlike with land transactions having a "title" guarantees you nothing. There have been cases of cars that were stolen decades ago and have been issued titles in several states before the car was finally discovered and the current "possessor" of the car had to give it back and lost everything.

 

The several states that had issued titles over the years to that "stolen" car had no responsibility. The states that issued the "title" to the "owner" suffered no ill effects and could not be held responsible for titling a "stolen" vehicle. The states dont even seem to be required to verify stolen databases before issuing a title. You can get title insurance for real estate, but not for automobiles. 

 

The DMV in every state is really nothing but a tax collector. Each and every state issues titles and registrations for the sole purpose of collecting money. 

 

Fact: they cant collect their money until they have issued you the documents. Call it a title or registration or whatever. Only when your name is associated with a car can they begin billing you. 

So, issuing you a title or registration is something that they WANT to do. 

 

It may be a hassle, and you may have to fill out a pile of papers, and you may have to take the car to be inspected or verified, (maybe even post a bond) BUT each and every state will always have a mechanism that will allow you to pay taxes on that car in that state. GUARANTEED. 

 

And then like you said:

"It can be done, but .... I like the car but I don't love the car."

 

Having documentation is just another aspect to the overall condition of the car. (rust? paint? mechanicals?)  Do you like this car enough to deal with those issues? 

Edited December 22, 2021 by m-mman (see edit history)

[Bloo]

Hoo boy.... Found the guy who has never lived in Washington State.

 

There is a process, but there is no guarantee your situation will qualify for it. Plenty of cars have been stuck in limbo for decades. It is very misleading to say you can just pay the taxes and get road legal paperwork. It is sort of true if you ignore the fact that you might have to pick up and move your home to a different state to do it.

 

Edited December 22, 2021 by Bloo (see edit history)

[JFranklin]

Find a (GOOD) friend that owns a dealership or garage. They know the hoops to get new registration through a sale or lien process.

[m-mman]

2 hours ago, Bloo said:

There is a process, but here is no guarantee your situation will qualify for it.

Telling your DMV the story that they want to hear (to elicit a smooth process), and not telling them the entire tale (which will create hoops and barriers) is a major part of the process. ;-)

 

When dealing with a bureaucracy the truth is not always your friend. . . .  

 

"It is sort of true if you ignore the fact that you might have to pick up and move your home to a different state to do it."

 

Hey, people send their chrome out of state to be replated and it shines the same when it comes back. 

Edited December 22, 2021 by m-mman (see edit history)