Patina

[Walt G]

My last comment on this topic - the changing lexicon and desire/need to go with the flow. The clear definition and meaning to most or your perception of same. Popular words once like "nostalgic" , "nostalgia" now little in use ( where they were used for every description of everything at one time) and now replaced by the use ( over use?) of words like iconic, classic, patina and it seems the word refurbished - maybe ( note I state maybe because this is now obviously a touchy subject)

I will now return to my research ( perhaps should have stayed there and not upset people) and only comment on what I see that I have documentation on from the re WWII era and continue to possibly share that.

It is a good day today , just added this morning,  a magnificent original portfolio issued by  Locomobile in the teens with the styling by J. Frank De Causse. All to be added to a significant pile of other material I have of the same company that will become a story of their 1914-1929 era.

I will try to return here to continue to share when that project is done , maybe, sort of......................

WG

[Jeff Perkins / Mn]

The three phrases I dislike the most in car ads:

1) Awesome patina

2) Barn find

3) Ready for restoration

 

’nuff said…..

[Buffalowed Bill]

21 hours ago, Rivguy said:

Well, patina is an overused and misused word. It used to refer to one of those rare "survivors" ( another misused term) that were original cars that displayed evidence of sympathetic, caring, use, and preservation. The masses are crazy for patina because it has been bandied about by the media, evidence: "Roadkill." The idea that an object, be it a house, a piece of furniture, or a car has been cared for during it's life and cherished and maintained is very appealing.

 

There is a British blog named "Oily Rag" which implies that surfaces are preserved by a simple wipe of an oil dampened cloth. I believe that it only ran a few years, but there is beautiful photography of cars, buildings and other preserved items.  The site is oily-rag.net. I don't know how to post a link here. 

 

ADMIN:  Here is a clickable url:  http://oily-rag.net

 

I use the word as a joke when referring to one of my original cars. I hope that my branding is understood to be a joke. To illustrate the small dent that I put on the lower, rear bumper area of my original 1960 Studebaker wagon. The repair would have disturbed the original paint and would have done nothing to enhance the car's impact or lack of same. I just refer to it as another layer of patina.

 

I see no real reason to stop using any word just because. A word is only disagreeable if it is misused. It says more about the person using the word then it says about the word itself.  

[Paul Dobbin]

7 hours ago, Bhigdog said:

 

That there ain't patina! That there is just dirt. ..............Bob

  I would call that a un-restored survivor.   It's the kind of car I always hope to find and use it exactly as found.  Then do what's necesary

  to keep it usable as is.   I know I'm not alone because every time something like it shows up in similar condition, it's the hit of the event.

  I learned the hard way that it's not a HPOF vehicle because it has no P in the HPOF.   Still I love them as drivable useable vehicles and

  awards don't make it better.

  

      Actually the 35 Ford Pickup is still driven by me regularly sincw 1990, great fun.  The 1932 Ford Roadster Pickup belonging to a friend is now restored to better than new.   It began life as a fleet purshase for Borden's Dairy.  The story of finding this truck was retold in Tom Cotter's book, "The Cobra in the Barn, Great Stories of Automotive Archacology."  2005 by Motorbooks,

The story of a 12 year old's dream, was about a kid finding the Roadster Pickuo in a barn at age 12, and not being able to buy it for over 50 years, until he was 65 years old.   

Edited October 22, 2021 by Paul Dobbin
The rest of the story (see edit history)

[Fossil]

49 minutes ago, avgwarhawk said:

Decades of patina! And pigeon droppings. Unless of course we consider that patina. 

Why not? Works on barn finds. 

[Fossil]

38 minutes ago, Jeff Perkins / Mn said:

The three phrases I dislike the most in car ads:

1) Awesome patina

2) Barn find

3) Ready for restoration

You forgot these impressive selling points. Very rare, hard to find, and very collectable. I'm probably missing a few also. 

 

 

[Jeff Perkins / Mn]

59 minutes ago, Fossil said:

You forgot these impressive selling points. Very rare, hard to find, and very collectable. I'm probably missing a few also. 

 

Those would certainly be in my top 10!

[avgwarhawk]

One of a kind find!!!!!

[Peter Gariepy]

2 hours ago, Jeff Perkins / Mn said:

The three phrases I dislike the most in car ads:

1) Awesome patina

2) Barn find

3) Ready for restoration

 

’nuff said…..

 

4) Use to run (duh)

5) Low mileage for its age (300,000+++)

6) Don't lowball me, I know what its worth (way overpriced)

7) 1 of only 30 built (ie, 4 door sedan with the least desirable color, stick, 6cyl and no options)

8) Very little rust  (the floors are completely gone)

9) Lots of extra parts (but probably not for this car, just need my garage cleaned out)

[Bhigdog]

3 hours ago, Paul Dobbin said:

Then do what's necesary

  to keep it usable as is. 

 

I assume that would including washing the damn thing...............Bob

[wayne sheldon]

1 hour ago, Peter Gariepy said:

7) 1 of only 30 built (ie, 4 door sedan with the least desirable color, stick, 6cyl and no options)

 

Peter G, I particularly enjoy (?) this one. A bit over forty years ago, I ran into a fellow that had a 1958 (not really all that old then!) Chevrolet four-door sedan (nothing special there) all original and in nearly perfect condition. At that time, similar cars could be had as many as you could want for about $2000 to $5000 apiece. He insisted he wanted $25,000 for his because it was the ONLY ONE originally built painted white with the second highest level heater and lowest option AM radio. Along with a couple other odd choices that would matter to nobody, he thought his only one of one car was worth the money that in those days could have bought a top line Pebble Beach car!

 

I remember a Stanley mountain wagon breaking the world auction price record at if I recall correctly about $25,000, and a couple years later a Mercer type 35 J (if I recall correctly?) breaking that record selling at $31,000! THAT was the era this fool wanted $25K for his '58 Chevrolet! Sometimes it is tough to envision how much things have changed when today we routinely see cars selling for multiple millions!

 

As for joking about "patina"? I am all for it! Especially for something like an "oops dent".

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Walt G said:

My last comment on this topic - the changing lexicon and desire/need to go with the flow. The clear definition and meaning to most or your perception of same. Popular words once like "nostalgic" , "nostalgia" now little in use ( where they were used for every description of everything at one time) and now replaced by the use ( over use?) of words like iconic, classic, patina and it seems the word refurbished - maybe ( note I state maybe because this is now obviously a touchy subject)

I will now return to my research ( perhaps should have stayed there and not upset people) and only comment on what I see that I have documentation on from the re WWII era and continue to possibly share that.

 

No worries Walt G! I/we always appreciate your thoughts, opinions, and especially your research! You are without a doubt one of the most respected and admired experts on this forum. 

PM being sent.

[Walt G]

Thanks Wayne, but no I am not an expert, never have been never will be , I don't think anyone can ever be ( hope that statement doesn't get me in hot water !). I am just an old car guy who was fortunate enough to be in the right place at the right time over the past 60 years to see and thus know about some automotive history ( or where to look for it)  that would not be made  available to a lot of people . The teacher and historian in me just likes to share what I may know or have. As I mentioned to you in the PM, sometimes you just get weary and need to take a step back. 

I sincerely appreciate all who read what I comment on here and also what I write in the print publications.

Be safe all , stay well and I will see you down the road............

[oldcarfudd]

I have seen a car that had some fake patina that made a lot of sense.  A fellow on the west coast had found a totally original early touring car, an Oakland I believe.  Mechanically it was all there and driveable.  The paint was there but cracked and crazed, the upholstery was the original leather - a true, beautiful survivor.  But it was totally missing one fender, and one wooden-spoke wheel was essentially rotted away.  He wanted to preserve, not restore, the car.  But you can't drive a car with three wheels and three fenders.  So he had a wheel and a fender made and had them distressed so they looked like the rest of the car.   No subterfuge - he told people what he had done and why.  I rode in it, and it was really neat.

 

At the other extreme, I once saw a Stanley at Hershey that had been given a ground-up restoration and artificially aged to look like a survivor.  What a travesty!

[wayne sheldon]

17 minutes ago, oldcarfudd said:

I have seen a car that had some fake patina that made a lot of sense.  A fellow on the west coast had found a totally original early touring car, an Oakland I believe.  Mechanically it was all there and driveable.  The paint was there but cracked and crazed, the upholstery was the original leather - a true, beautiful survivor.  But it was totally missing one fender, and one wooden-spoke wheel was essentially rotted away.  He wanted to preserve, not restore, the car.  But you can't drive a car with three wheels and three fenders.  So he had a wheel and a fender made and had them distressed so they looked like the rest of the car.   No subterfuge - he told people what he had done and why.  I rode in it, and it was really neat.

 

At the other extreme, I once saw a Stanley at Hershey that had been given a ground-up restoration and artificially aged to look like a survivor.  What a travesty!

 

 

I know the man, and I know the Oakland! When I first saw it, he had just gotten it. He had made a two thick sheets of plywood center to replace the missing spokes and bolted it to the original hub to hold the outer rim and tire from a model T (if I recall correctly?) in order to move and transport the Oakland. A wonderful solution that I have shared a few times on forums since then!

[Angelfish]

Barn find survivor with great patina ran when parked!