72 Centurion Convertible

[rocketraider]

Here's something else to think about. Your oil filter mount should have a spring loaded fiber relief disc in the metal body. What it does, if the filter plugs, oil pressure forces it open so the engine doesn't starve for oil. It just doesn't get filtered.

 

I've found several of those things partially off their seat over the years, on engines that hadn't been maintained the best. Next time you have the oil filter off, spray some brake or carb cleaner around the relief disc's edges and use a blunt tool to exercise it. Push it off its seat and let it reseat a few times to make sure it functions and that it's seated so it doesn't allow unfiltered oil thru the engine.

 

Thanks to Mr Ernest Brandon for teaching me that trick long ago at his Sunoco station. There's times even now I wish I had him and my community college auto tech instructor Mr Comer to ask about something.

[old-tank]

1 hour ago, rocketraider said:

 

I like to substitute a quart of blue Rislone 

This for those noisy lifters.

[EmTee]

FWIW, it sounds like noisy lifter(s) to me.  Have you measured the actual oil pressure?  Could be the issue Glenn mentioned, or now that the car is being driven some particles may have loosened-up and migrated to the lifters.  I like Rislone also...

[NC-car-guy]

1 minute ago, EmTee said:

FWIW, it sounds like noisy lifter(s) to me.  Have you measured the actual oil pressure?  Could be the issue Glenn mentioned, or now that the car is being driven some particles may have loosened-up and migrated to the lifters.  I like Rislone also...

I'll check more now that I've done the oil change.  I don't have a gauge on it. Might hook up something temporary to see.

[KAD36]

+1 Rislone and lifter considering if it’s being run more…..

[avgwarhawk]

17 hours ago, NC-car-guy said:

This was after running and at operating temp.  Can't hear it inside the car (top down or up) so no noticeable noise under load.

Lifter noise.  When I hear it I usually turn up the radio.  Problem resolved.   Personally, I would run it and not worry.     

[NC-car-guy]

7 minutes ago, avgwarhawk said:

Lifter noise.  When I hear it I usually turn up the radio.  Problem resolved.   Personally, I would run it and not worry.     

Do you mutter to yourself "not today satan" as you crank up the tunes? 🤣

[avgwarhawk]

23 minutes ago, NC-car-guy said:

Do you mutter to yourself "not today satan" as you crank up the tunes? 🤣

I said this just the other day when the starter acted up on my 60.   

[Bloo]

I remember when I was in college I had a Ford with one noisy lifter. I dumped a quart of Rislone in it, and then I had 16 noisy lifters.

[avgwarhawk]

15 minutes ago, Bloo said:

I remember when I was in college I had a Ford with one noisy lifter. I dumped a quart of Rislone in it, and then I had 16 noisy lifters.

And they all tapped in tune. 😃😐

[old-tank]

22 minutes ago, Bloo said:

I remember when I was in college I had a Ford with one noisy lifter. I dumped a quart of Rislone in it, and then I had 16 noisy lifters.

That's really bad since Fords have lousy radios.

[Electra63]

On 7/13/2022 at 6:15 PM, NC-car-guy said:

Someone told me these cars are prone to rod problems and sounds like mine is.....

 

Hey Matt.

 

I have a 63 Electra with the exact same noise (only mine sounds a bit louder than your clip).

After trawling the internet I was zeroing in on the lifters as a possible source of the noise.

Then I stumbled over your post and this video clip and from what I can tell your noise is/was the same as mine.

I'm ready to try the Rislone or other additive to try to release/fix the issue.  I'm also planning to use 'Engine Restore' (the silver bottle additive) which has worked WONDERS on my 2002 Expedition which was smoking but now perfectly fine again at 225k miles.

 

Did you try the Rislone?

Was it effective?

Any other tips on addressing this noise?

 

thanks !

 

Mark

[Electra63]

On 7/14/2022 at 4:34 AM, EmTee said:

FWIW, it sounds like noisy lifter(s) to me.  Have you measured the actual oil pressure?  Could be the issue Glenn mentioned, or now that the car is being driven some particles may have loosened-up and migrated to the lifters.  I like Rislone also...

@EmTee  Is the Rislone a 'one and done' treatment which helps free up the stuck lifter(s) and then no longer needed,  or does it have to be added with every oil change?

Could you briefly tell me your experience and why you recommend it?  I'm thinking of trying it in my Electra engine but a bit wary...

 

thanks

 

Mark

[EmTee]

Rislone can be used once at an oil/filter change (best) or they have a concentrate that can be added whenever.  It can be used at every oil change if you like, but I only used it when a noisy lifter on my '56 Chevy would act-up.  If the lifter has a sticky mechanism, my experience was usually within 200 miles of driving the ticking would improve, or be eliminated.  Some people say they add some ATF to their crankcase as a one-time treatment to accomplish the same thing.  Unlike Rislone, that sounds a little risky to me, so I just use Rislone.  Rislone will also help free-up valves that are sticking in their guides due to bad fuel or prolonged storage.  I would likely add a quart to the fresh oil when starting an engine that has been sitting for a long period of time.

[rocketraider]

Rislone, Marvel Mystery Oil or even automatic transmission fluid will clean dirty hydraulic lifters and quiet them down. Substitute a quart of any of those in place of one quart of oil at an oil change, or some folks guideline is 20% of the engine's oil capacity.

 

Some people use these lubricants at every oil change, others at longer intervals. When used correctly they work. I don't consider them a "one-and-done" additive; more a preventative maintenance thing, so my habit of nearly 50 years has been to substitute a quart of Rislone at oil change.

 

I know there are those who will argue against the use of any additive at any time. But it's telling that all carmakers had their own branded oil supplements on the shelf in the parts department. GM's "High Detergent Oil Concentrate" looked and smelled a lot like Rislone and came in the same size and shape can. In GM branding of course.

[Electra63]

Thanks Emtee & Glenn. 

Having had good experience of an additive in my 2003 Ford Expedition that has done 230k miles I'm not afraid to use one provided I feel that I've researched it to death and had reliable independent people recommend it.  That certainly seems to be the case here, so I'll give the Rislone a try at my next oil change - probably when I start driving the car more once I've corrected a few mechanical issues that I'm working on.

Thanks again. 

 

[EmTee]

@Electra63 I can't guarantee it will fix every tick, but I am confident that using Rislone will not do any harm to your engine. 

[Electra63]

16 hours ago, EmTee said:

@Electra63 I can't guarantee it will fix every tick, but I am confident that using Rislone will not do any harm to your engine. 

sounds good to me - worth a try !  thanks

[NTX5467]

On 2/16/2023 at 8:09 AM, rocketraider said:

Rislone, Marvel Mystery Oil or even automatic transmission fluid will clean dirty hydraulic lifters and quiet them down. Substitute a quart of any of those in place of one quart of oil at an oil change, or some folks guideline is 20% of the engine's oil capacity.

 

I know there are those who will argue against the use of any additive at any time. But it's telling that all carmakers had their own branded oil supplements on the shelf in the parts department. GM's "High Detergent Oil Concentrate" looked and smelled a lot like Rislone and came in the same size and shape can. In GM branding of course.

Yes, the OEM owner's manual cautioned against the use of oil additives.  "Just use motor oil of the correct viscosity and rating" was about what they said back then.  But then go to the dealership and they had OEM-branded oil additives and such.  GM had a bunch!  Engine Oil Supplement (the pint poured out like STP, but the quart was designed to replace one quart of oil at an oil change) and the detergent "quart" mentioned.  Which stated it could be used to clean things up before an engine overhaul, in which case, it stated to run it in the engine at fast idle for about 30 minutes prior to the oil change.  Our-then parts manager said that some mechanic shops used it just for that.

 

But for the normal people, a quart of ATF was supposed to work well, as did a quart of Berryman's B12 in the oil, too, usually.  B12 could also be used to clean-up automatic transmission's guts, too, prior to a full fluid/filter change.  Can you say "varnish remover"?  The additives in the atf and its thinner viscosity were supposed to get into places the normal motor oil could not, initiating cleaning in tight places.  FWIW

 

Enjoy!

NTX5467

[NC-car-guy]

Not done much to this car.  Have the AC parts, not installed. Driver's side window has gotten hard to roll up/down.  I used it in a parade in December.... 300 mile round trip to get to the parade.  It was fun, my nephew loved it.

[rocketraider]

Did the parade boot come with it, or did you have to hunt one down?

[NC-car-guy]

1 hour ago, rocketraider said:

Did the parade boot come with it, or did you have to hunt one down?

It came with it

[NC-car-guy]

Anyone with one of these 70s B-bodies that feels like you have to slam to the doors?  My 57 shuts so easy, then when I met the guy with the 63 wildcat this weekend, his doors shut with just a push.  My centurion you have to really slam the doors (even more so when windows are up).  They feel like they are shut very tight after, but sometimes still shake when going over something like railroad tracks.

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by NC-car-guy (see edit history)

[Smartin]

The only coupe/convertible I’ve had that had doors that close east and tight was my cinnamon coupe.  It was a low mile pampered car.  
 

A combo of sagging hinges, sloppy latch mechanisms and latch pillars are much to blame.  The windows are usually a little out of adjustment and the tracks allow them to flop around, allowing them to hit the roof rubber prematurely.

[NTX5467]

In some respects, I believe it is the design of the latches and striker bolt which can result in some of these issues.  Watch the striker area when you close the door normally.  You'll probably see it move.  The one on Dad's '72 Catalina Brougham 2dr hardtop does, yet when closed, it's all good.  No movement even on rough dirt roads.  No issues with window alignment either.

 

What about the pvc contact sleeve on the striker bolt?  Is it still there and in good condition?  It IS replaceable, just that for soem model years (which use the same striker bolt), it is not mentioned, in others, it is.  Kind of hidden in the parts books, as I recall.

 

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[NC-car-guy]

21 minutes ago, Smartin said:

The only coupe/convertible I’ve had that had doors that close east and tight was my cinnamon coupe.  It was a low mile pampered car.  
 

A combo of sagging hinges, sloppy latch mechanisms and latch pillars are much to blame.  The windows are usually a little out of adjustment and the tracks allow them to flop around, allowing them to hit the roof rubber prematurely.

My hinges don't have any vertical play that I can detect.  I suppose there could be a slight vertical alignment issue, but I don't see any unusual wear to the striker bolt, I'll verify.

[NC-car-guy]

15 minutes ago, NTX5467 said:

In some respects, I believe it is the design of the latches and striker bolt which can result in some of these issues.  Watch the striker area when you close the door normally.  You'll probably see it move.  The one on Dad's '72 Catalina Brougham 2dr hardtop does, yet when closed, it's all good.  No movement even on rough dirt roads.  No issues with window alignment either.

 

What about the pvc contact sleeve on the striker bolt?  Is it still there and in good condition?  It IS replaceable, just that for soem model years (which use the same striker bolt), it is not mentioned, in others, it is.  Kind of hidden in the parts books, as I recall.

 

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

Car was restored some 20 years ago and only got 36 miles put on in between resto and my acquisition.  Maybe some things need re-adjustment after being used a little.  I've put ~2k miles on it in the 2 years I've had it.

[Smartin]

That red 72 I sold recently had horribly closing doors.  I replaced both latch mechanisms inside the door with others from a better donor.  Also made some striker adjustments…they still required some effort to close.

Even that hail damaged 72 Riv I sold last year had sloppy closing doors, and it was a 55k mile original car

[NC-car-guy]

5 minutes ago, Smartin said:

That red 72 I sold recently had horribly closing doors.  I replaced both latch mechanisms inside the door with others from a better donor.  Also made some striker adjustments…they still required some effort to close.

Even that hail damaged 72 Riv I sold last year had sloppy closing doors, and it was a 55k mile original car

Wow.  just a side effect of the extra heavy/long 70's doors matched with that style striker maybe.

[NC-car-guy]

Well... I may not survive this discovery.  First of all, I must have been on a different planet when I previously looked at the striker bolt because it is clearly worn on the top side as though the door is sitting low. This caused me to investigate further and I noticed that the top molding of the door does not line up with the top molding on the quarter panel, more evidence that the door is sitting incorrectly. However, The pinstripe and the belt molding do line up appropriately.... So if I adjust the door properly I will then have a pinstripe and belt molding that don't line up.  My OCD cannot handle this. 🤯🤯🤯🤯

 

PS. Fix a flat can is not mine.  Stopped last night to help my cousin with a flat tire

[rocketraider]

My 73 Delta convertible was like that. These cars have:

 

HEAVY doors due to the guardrail beams added for side impact crash protection.

 

A lot of body flex even with supposedly reinforced frames on convertibles.

 

Check the wedge shims at upper rear area of the door jamb. There's a little adjustment on them, not much. They need a dab of white grease applied at every oil change and lube job.

 

Also- it's some aggravation, but removing the latch from the door, thoroughly cleaning it with brake cleaner or other solvent, and lubricating it before reinstalling might help. Check the striker posts for wear too.

[NC-car-guy]

2 minutes ago, rocketraider said:

My 73 Delta convertible was like that. These cars have:

 

HEAVY doors due to the guardrail beams added for side impact crash protection.

 

A lot of body flex even with supposedly reinforced frames on convertibles.

 

Check the wedge shims at upper rear area of the door jamb. There's a little adjustment on them, not much. They need a dab of white grease applied at every oil change and lube job.

 

Also- it's some aggravation, but removing the latch from the door, thoroughly cleaning it with brake cleaner or other solvent, and lubricating it before reinstalling might help. Check the striker posts for wear too.

See above re: striker wear

[old-tank]

1 hour ago, NC-car-guy said:

striker wear

Yours appears tot be missing the plastic sleeve on the door striker.  It will never close well with out it  That alone will raise the door a little and split the difference between the horizontal visuals.  Those big heavy doors need a firm push when closing even on the 4-door cars.

 

[rocketraider]

Convertible door shims from 73 FB Manual:If someone can rotate the pictures so they make sense... I can't.🙁

[Bloo]

2 hours ago, NC-car-guy said:

This caused me to investigate further and I noticed that the top molding of the door does not line up with the top molding on the quarter panel, more evidence that the door is sitting incorrectly. However, The pinstripe and the belt molding do line up appropriately.... So if I adjust the door properly I will then have a pinstripe and belt molding that don't line up.  My OCD cannot handle this. 🤯🤯🤯🤯

 

Look a bit closer. It looks like the tilt might be a little off, in other words the top corner might be a little out. Is that just camera distortion? Maybe it would be possible to still get it mostly lined up?

 

[NTX5467]

Aim to get the pinstripes lined up.  Let the chrome alignment be as it is.

 

Might get the striker pcv bushing and then tweak the upper door hinge slightly.

 

Additionally, when you open the door from the inside, get it so that it only takes a horizontal push with your elbow.  It is human nature to push down as we seek to open doors and doors we walk through, rather than just pushing forward ONLY.

 

In the 1990s and prior, we sold LOTS of hinge pin bushings for GM pickup truck doors.  Kind of a normal maintenance item as they aged, it seemed.  Then, after I realized how humans usually opened doors, I re-learned things so that I only pushed horizontally and not forcefully downward before the horizontal push.  Made things much easier and the hinges on the recently-new Chevy pickup I drove at work had "tight" doors longer than similar trucks others drove.  Plus the ones which came after it.

 

Enjoy!

NTX5467

Edited July 24, 2023 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[NTX5467]

I looked around in the '75 and prior Buick parts book I downloaded from the www.ahps.com website.  The GM part number for the striker assy is 9815751.  By this point in time, I suspect that GM has discontinued that part number and finding one at a dealership would be a negative-percentage probability.  Looked for the pcv sleeve part number, but did not find it, but I know they did exist.

 

So I went into the Dorman website looking for same, as in their "HELP! Rack" section.  There, I found  #38420 after I'd put in the '72 Centurion specifics in their catalog search.  The Buick striker was 9815751 and the Chev item (for an Impala/Caprice) was 9815750, which was the OEM reference Dorman had for their part number.  Not sure why the Buick number would have been so close to the Chevy number for an allegedly "same part"?  So . . . "Try it and see".  

 

I was really hoping to find the pcv sleeve/insulator item, but did not.  Seems like there used to be a small package of such in their HELP! Rack selection, a while back?  Might still be . . .

 

In the Dorman website, for each part, there also is a "Where to Buy It" function, which included (locally) O'Reilly's and AutoZone stores.

 

Enjoy!

NTX5467

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[NC-car-guy]

Driving this thing daily now...  shew, with the top up, there is no air movement in the cabin...good aerodynamics I guess?  windows down and all the air flows past, not in.  I'm cooking.    Yesterday I started had the front left brake pads start squealing and excessive brake dust, thankfully brake pads are available locally, so that's tonight's project, with some luck I can get it done before the bears come around.

[NTX5467]

No "VENT" on the a/c control panel?  Letting air come in via the a/c vents without the a/c compressor running?

 

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[rocketraider]

My habit even when traveling with windows down is to set HVAC controls to VENT and set the blower to its 2nd or middle speed. That way you get some airflow thru the cabin and the blower will force out hot stale air.

 

The 1971 GM cabin ventilation system did basically the same thing. The HVAC blower ran on low speed any time the ignition switch was in RUN. The idea was to force out stale air thru the vents in the decklid and refresh cabin air with outside air several times a minute.

 

Worked better in theory than in actual practice, especially after water leakage problems associated with the decklid vents showed up.