Electra63

😮

Well....I'm embarrassed (and relieved) to say that I found the problem and it was a simple one ! Following the principle of 'check the easy stuff first' and following Bloo's suggestion, I decided to (re) check the firing order. Conclusion : I guess when I tagged the leads while removing them from the distributor I mis-labeled #5 & #6....they were reversed... So I corrected the problem and - hey presto - it runs fine - back to how it was before the failed module sent me on this little detour..... Thanks again to you all for your help. The support and depth of experience on this forum is great; I really appreciate it. I'm only disappointed that I took up everyone's time for such a rookie error ! 😐 But now....time to get the car out on the open road again

Re: what happens when you put vacuum hose to the distributor? : I believe the vacuum advance is working OK if that is why you are asking?. I may try to check the advance is working by having someone press the gas pedal while I watch it with the timing light. Would this be a suitable check? As far as I can tell the wires in the distributor are all OK. No physical damage to be seen and I did check continuity between the (black, yellow & red) wires from the cap down to the module. The only item I have a slight doubt about is the larger connector onto the ignition module (top of the photo below). There are two doubts in my mind on that... 1. The connector seems slightly loose on one of the two blade connectors but its difficult to tell if its indeed loose or if the connector is good but the blade is loose in the plastic housing. 2. There is a square red component connected between the wire from the coil and the connector to the ignition module. It is held down onto the baseplate of the distributor with a screw that I can't loosen. I'm not sure how the check if that component could have gone bad. Here is a pic of that I'm referring to. NOTE: This is not my actual unit - only a photo I found online... The red component (resistor?) I'm referring to is in the top right of this photo, held down by the brass screw. I'm assuming that if the resistor burned or became disconnected from the circuit for any reason, the system would not work at all? I guess I could check it with a multimeter but not sure what the resistance should read. Probably any ohm value other than an open circuit would confirm it's OK?

thanks My plan is to first check the firing order to make sure that is not the cause Then I'll run a compression check on all cylinders.

Thanks guys The coil looks good. No burned smell and no obvious damage. It looks pretty much brand new. The distributor was not that old either. I'd say probably 3 years max. When it was running it did have a noise like a stuck lifter but it never got any worse in the 18 months I've owned the vehicle. I'll check the easy stuff first like firing order. I did tag the leads before removing them from the cap and took a photo to be sure not to mix them up but not saying it's impossible.... I'll also do Bloo's carburetor inspection. When it was not running there was a strong-ish smell of gas around the carburetor area but I assumed it had just got flooded when I was cranking it with no spark. I'll post an update in a few days when I've had a chance to work on it some more. I appreciate all the advice !

Update so...after a few hours working on this yesterday, I found the following: - removed and inspected all the plugs. 5 or 6 of them were sooty. Cleaned them all and checked the gaps which were all around 0.35-0.40 - checked the plug leads and all were OK - from 2-4k ohm depending on the lengths - after completing all that, I started the car again and the same result - idles OK but misfires on increasing revs. More noticeable when I jab the gas pedal and less so when slowly increasing the revs. - the engine also idles uneven - like its firing on 7 out of 8 cylinders or something... My thoughts then went to the fact that perhaps the new module was bad out of the box so I went down to Autozone and bought their version. Installed it and....the same result. So I have ruled out a bad module. - so then I wondered if the new carbon button that came with the cap was too high a resistance v the previous one so I installed the low resistance one that is meant for a high output MSD coil, thinking that if I had a weak spark that would help. But still no change to the engine behavior.... I also noticed what seems to be a shiny deposit on the driveway under the tail pipes. It's not oil but I think it could be unburned gas...😐 So I'm now wondering if I should suspect the coil ? I did check it with an ohm meter and the two windings checked out within the range that I found online....but I also saw an article saying that the coils can fail gradually - I think the writer called it 'layered failure' or something similar whereby a coil can break down gradually before failing completely. I'm now unsure whether : a) buy a replacement coil, or b) trash the whole distributor and get a 100% new unit or c) could I have a mechanical problem that is giving me the symptoms I'm seeing. I have had the timing light on it quite a bit, trying different degrees of advance between about 8-12 (made no difference to misfire) and the flash from the timing light seems consistent. Anyone had experience of a 'gradually failing' coil ? any other ideas? thanks for reading

thanks Bloo & OldTank. I'm pretty sure mine has 'conventional' plugs but I'm going to double check and I'll certainly check the leads. The car ran great prior to the distributor failure - fired up first time etc I finally have a couple hours free this afternoon so its off to the garage I go.

One other question.... What should the spark plug gap be with the HEI distributor? Does everyone agree with the .045 advised by Bloo earlier in this thread ? Thanks

Thanks. This makes me more confident in the (Delphi) module I purchased....although these days you never know 100% if its a knock-off or the real thing. I went to the official Delphi website and the photos look the same as what I received form the ebay vendor so fingers crossed.... I'll be doing some more investigation into the misfire over the weekend.

Thanks for all the replies! Plenty to digest. I'll be digging into this again at the end of this coming week when I'm back home. I appreciate you all taking the time to share your experience and advice

Module was from eBay from a US seller and it's a genuine Delphi part. I tried to find a genuine brand name to avoid any quality problems.....open to feedback on that

Update. I received and fitted the new module. It was running rough so I had to tweak the timing. After removing the vacuum advance connection I set the timing at the 12 degrees advance mark and it now idles nicely but a slight misfire when I jab the throttle. I had to go out of town for 10 days but when I'm back I'll try to fine tune the timing. Any hints on this ? Does a misfire on acceleration usually mean too much or too little advance? Just so I know which direction I should try to finesse it. It was running great under all conditions before the module failed. Oh and just to confirm I tested the ground and it's 100% and also made sure I have a full 12v to the distributor Thanks

Right. I had a similar experience with a TV. An original Sony flat screen lasted me 15 years and was still working fine when I donated it to Goodwill. The replacement lasted 5 years....and when I did some in depth research it seems the some of the electronics are now designed to be at or close to the limit in certain components that are heat sensitive so they're effectively wear parts. From what I've read over the last few days I've learned to consider these ignition modules to be similar - i.e. wear items that will eventually give up due to heat cycling. Not if, but when.... I will certainly be paying attention to getting an even film of grease on the whole back surface of the module. Its unfortunate that the failure on this module seems to have also cost me a new distributor cap and rotor arm, but that's the way the cookie crumbles sometimes I guess. I'm just thankful that it happened when it was idling in front of my house and not on a busy 5-lane LA highway !

😂...of course

Thanks emtee Yes I have specifically ordered a module that comes with the thermal grease packet. I'll probably be fitting it later this week and then hopefully I'll be back on the road

Right thanks.....plus the tools to change it roadside in an emergency if needed I guess 🙄

Update Well it looks like old-tank was right. I fitted the new rotor and cap, tested the ground of the distributor etc and all ok. Fired up the starter and... nothing. Off to buy a new module now. Someone ex GM on YouTube recommended getting a NOS Delco module as the older versions seem to be more reliable than the new no-brand/imported units. Anyone else agree with that ? Thanks for reading!

thanks. Yes I saw another forum about the White units.... No idea where this one was purchased from. Previous owner had a friend with a shop and they seem to have done a decent job from other work I saw but I'm pretty sure on this HEI unit they just bought a cheap one that was suitable. I'm going to fit the new cap and rotor and give it a go. If, as old-tank says, its the module, then I'm sure I'll know pretty quickly... the carbon button is shot and I dont like the look of the burned area on the arm so I'm replacing those anyway.

OK thanks. I'm going to check the module too

Hello folks. I need some help/advice about the GM HEI ignition distributors I purchased a 63 Buick Electra about 18 months ago. The previous owner upgraded the ignition system by installing the black cap HEI type distributor. It has run fine since I've owned it. It always fires up first time (except when its been sat for a bit and needs a few cranks to get the fuel moving). So last week it was too wet to drive it so I left it idling with the garage doors open. I was busy with another job in the house and when I returned 10-15 minutes later the car had stopped running. I tried to re-start it and nothing. So after some investigation I verified the fuel system was OK and determined that it was an ignition problem. After removing the distributor cover and doing some further research about these HEI units I noticed that the black carbon button in the cover has burned/eroded away and there is a corresponding burned/etched area on the pickup tab on the rotor arm. See photos The main coil checks out and at this stage I don't think its the pickup module. I believe the carbon button eroded away and lost contact with the rotor arm. I can also see some slight rubbing/heat marks around the hole in the cap where the button pokes through (photo). The cap/rotor on the original do look a bit cheap so I have purchased a MSD replacement cap and rotor which are a direct fit and look to be of better quality. The kit also came with two new carbon buttons - one regular and one low resistance. The low resistance one is supposedly to be used with the high output MSD coil. So I have two questions before I install the replacement parts: 1. Based on this information does it make sense that the carbon button could just wear out and cause this failure? I read that the rotor and button should be considered wear items....or could there be another underlying cause of this failure that I haven't seen (yet) 2. Bearing in mind that I'm not replacing the original coil with a high output coil at this point, I'm considering installing the low resistance carbon button anyway as I don't think it can hurt? Or should I stay with the regular button? They are the exact same size just different material composition. An other recommendations ? thanks !

Dear fellow classic car enthusiasts. I thought I'd post this information as it helped me and my son a few years ago when we found his Datsun 260Z had a rusted gas tank and there was no replacement available on the market at that time. We got lucky because about 40 minutes from us was a certified dealer/shop that offered the gas tank "Renu" process It saved us, as the shop was able to blast, leak test, patch any holes and then apply their patented coating inside and out that comes with a lifetime warranty. For transparency, I have no affiliation whatsoever with this company, no one I know or am related to works there etc. I am simply posting this because I was recently reminded in a conversation with my son of how valuable the repair was to us at the time. I thought it might help out someone who is in any similar situation. So if you want to repair your original tank for whatever reason I highly recommend looking into this option. Our tank was done over 10 years ago and its still in excellent condition.. https://www.gastankrenu.net/ Good luck with your vehicle and happy motoring ! Mark

Ok thanks. That's the easier option so I may just do that first

@NTX5467 Thanks for the additional information. Indeed I've been ignoring the tick and enjoying driving the car. I'm just concerned whether it could cause further issues if I leave it as is for the longer term Happy Holidays to you too !

Probably only about 150 or so ...

Thanks guys. I'll give these suggestions a shot. I've tried the Rislone treatment but no improvement. I also tried the suggestion in the manual of rapping on the rocker arm ends. That seemed to quieten it temporarily but it came back. Now I'm second guessing myself if the rap with the rubber hammer did in fact quieten it or not ... Of course I guess the cam could be rubbed... Once I identify the lifter that's stuck is it fairly straightforward to remove, inspect and clean it ?