NTX5467 Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 If it takes a lot of throttle to get it to move, it might well be that the converter is not working correctly. Maybe an over-running clutch issue? Probably not related to the leak, though. Glad it's "getting there". Take care, NTX5467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drhach Posted September 16, 2021 Author Share Posted September 16, 2021 That's my concern too. I'm going to pull the pan and verify that the filter and pickup tube are fully seated. If not...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 17 hours ago, drhach said: I'm going to pressure test the transmission and see what I come up with. Finally someone is taking the right approach! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drhach Posted September 17, 2021 Author Share Posted September 17, 2021 So I checked my pressures and they're all in spec. It looks like I have a bad TC. So I'll need to either get this one rebuilt or find a replacement. I'm going to call the shop that did my engine block and driveshaft. Hopefully they can help me out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 If the pressures are correct then how can the TC be bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drhach Posted September 17, 2021 Author Share Posted September 17, 2021 1 hour ago, JohnD1956 said: If the pressures are correct then how can the TC be bad? The housing of the TC is mechanically attached and rotated by the engine. This is the part of the TC that drives the pump in the transmission. So I have good pressure. What I don't have are the shear forces in the TC that create the fluid drive to rotate the input shaft on the transmission. The vanes are not interacting properly for some reason. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 (edited) If you are anywhere near western New York I have a '62 Dynaflow in my cellar. It serves as a nearly immovable base for a resistance band station in my little cellar gym, but you can have any pieces you need. The rebuilder may have lost some of the little internal parts. Of course I may have too. Edited September 17, 2021 by 60FlatTop (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 Check out the torque converter vanes found during this rebuild: https://forums.aaca.org/topic/344841-working-on-the-60-electra/page/7/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drhach Posted September 17, 2021 Author Share Posted September 17, 2021 I think there's some confusion, I'm not using a Dynaflow anymore. I converted to an ST400. I still have the Dynaflow wrapped up in a contractor bag. Thanks for the offer though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 Yep, I'm confused. OK, your problem (as you probably know) will be finding another switch-pitch converter, or someone who can rebuild the one you have. I do see Rock Auto lists this one: https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=4996419&cc=1319059&pt=8668&jsn=980&_nck=Ekt6BqBF1pwlXdx0gYlm1esw98pF26vehMm%2FGG3C%2Fl2QOXSJubi7WSpUmUSdg3OxWOs2f5z9h422EONy36O0PjCuaadDqI1r86y%2FvJ1lBqy8eOR0sg7Bs%2FdgvugczVYYclN1BZ3j66jjTf0QqLMzvAJzYllH0EONG05bVUwZHSquX0zUom7FIFtD463b2Hn6h%2BfF31CKLNIe0EGYiuyMFCIdIrOsFAUyg2jZZJ2u7Rg3kMagGaHXM2redw1LFOQv%2BpPGVubvFghsl19Vw2JhJ5ftajT1BLuskiRA6%2FUT%2FPZ0RH1untVf1YcfY3d2u0ID1iA%2F4UPbHcQZOpG7j4mabdz1yYbTFIuR%2F9Oo7WVR42T1hT8QnlDdKt0z%2FfSfoG6kwxS0ijydl6WtYI0xSS5Svw%3D%3D Only 1 remaining -- act FAST! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drhach Posted September 18, 2021 Author Share Posted September 18, 2021 I've found a couple of rebuilders near me. I bought this one used and was reassured that it was in great shape. I'm not doing that again. In hindsight, I should have just sent it out for rebuild in the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 In the 1966 MOTOR Manual I got new that year, it has a very complete section on the then-new Ford C-6 automatic transmission. In the diagnostic section, there is one issue listed about the car only having a top speed of about 60mph. As the converter stator is locked into "reduction/break-away" position and does not transition as speed increases from idle. Possibly also related to the over-running clutch? End result, the torque converter stays in "reduction-gear-type mode". On those earlier fixed-stator torque converters, the torque ratio was about 2.0 at stall, but the switch-pitch had a high-stall torque ratio of about 2.6 at stall. In any event, the torque ratio quickly approaches "1" after the vehicle starts to move, if everything is operating as designed. Just some thoughts, NTX5467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrspeedyt Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 (edited) just my experience with a turbo 400. my 67 Cadillac 429 and th400 was a switch pitch torque converter. it had serious issues. I had to have the transmission rebuilt and used the guts and torque converter from a 69 cad th400. The case is still a 67. (but with the 69 guts and converter). works well. been 35 years now. btw i use type F atf in it. i was originally was going to simply swap the 69 th400 onto the back of the 67 429. but the bell housing bolt pattern was different. cadillac went to a new bell housing bolt pattern in 1968 with the new 472/500 engine. (dang. cost me an additional $400 bucks then.) but it works out over the long run. Edited September 23, 2021 by mrspeedyt (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drhach Posted September 23, 2021 Author Share Posted September 23, 2021 Thanks for the feedback. Waiting to hear on the toque converter rebuild. The shop told me it would be done next week. I don't know if that means Monday or Friday. I'll start bugging them if I don't hear anything by Wednesday. I'm hoping to get it before the weekend. My Wife's birthday is that weekend and I'd have a hard time justifying working in the garage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 1 hour ago, drhach said: My Wife's birthday is that weekend and I'd have a hard time justifying working in the garage. What if you offered to let her help...? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drhach Posted September 23, 2021 Author Share Posted September 23, 2021 17 minutes ago, EmTee said: What if you offered to let her help...? I'm sure her laughter would be followed by a giant middle finger :). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 39 minutes ago, EmTee said: What if you offered to let her help...? That's when the argument started..... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drhach Posted September 24, 2021 Author Share Posted September 24, 2021 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drhach Posted September 30, 2021 Author Share Posted September 30, 2021 I just talked to the transmission shop. They sent the converter off to be checked out and it checked out fine. I found that kind of baffling given the symptoms. But I am not a transmission expert. I dropped that transmission off too. He found that there was what he would consider to be an excessive amount of shims in the pressure regulator. He's thinking that this may have kept the trans from actually filling the TC. He isn't really finding anything else wrong with the transmission so far. He's going to go the rest of the way though it just to be safe. They're going to reassemble the TC. It's been about a year since I rebuilt the transmission, I'll have to check my notes about why so many shims are in there. It could be that I put it together backwards too. Hopefully this is the issue though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drhach Posted October 12, 2021 Author Share Posted October 12, 2021 Progress report. I got the transmission back. He re-shimmed the pressure regulator. He also found that I had installed a 4L80E 2nd band. I recall when I bought t he second band replacement that it said 4L80e/TH400. Live and learn. These are the things that come with inexperience. I also am pretty sure I wouldn't have noticed any of these things had I taken the transmission apart myself. I didn't notice it the first time anyway. I'm still glad that I went through the transmission and rebuilt it myself. I learned a lot about how automatics work. It's always been kind of black magic to me.So, I got the transmission in this weekend. Everything works! The car runs awesome and shifts great. I spent some time modifying my shift linkage and it's all spot on. I think I have some fine tuning of the carb to do. I got it setup before the rebuild, but I think it's talking to a different engine now. Plenty of power, but I just want to tweak it to get the most out of it.I have to say with the Bruce Roe controller in there, the transmission is every bit as smooth as the Dynaflow was. I'm really glad I put this transmission in and it wasn't that hard of a swap.Now it just needs to stop raining I put about 30 miles on the engine this weekend. I need to take her for a long drive. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 The "4L80E" is a THM400 with OD, electronic valve body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drhach Posted October 13, 2021 Author Share Posted October 13, 2021 Not exactly. A TH400 is a 3L80 (3 speed). A 4L80E is a 4 speed with electronic controls. For the second band that I bought, it was listed as being for both. The trans guy said it was wrong and could tell immediately that they were different. He told me that the early 4L80's interchanged. Maybe that was before the "E" came along? I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 4L80E = THM400 (3-speed automatic) + OD (overdrive gear added), with electronic valve body. The "number of forward gears" + "L" longitudinal or "T" transverse mounting + "torque rating" (undefined) + valve body modulation "E" for electronic, blank for analog transmission designation nomenclature was not in place during the THM400 or THM350 production times, although they could be determined. FWIW, NTX5467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drhach Posted October 14, 2021 Author Share Posted October 14, 2021 So the 2nd band for a 4L80E is also correct for the TH400? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 (edited) I was always under the impression that they might be, but it could be that something changed with the electronic valve body? Have to check GM part numbers to verify. What differences did the trans shop operative indicate that they were not the same? NTX5467 Edited October 15, 2021 by NTX5467 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drhach Posted October 15, 2021 Author Share Posted October 15, 2021 He didn't say. I still have a torque converter to pick up from him. I'll ask him when I see him. He did mention that the "early" 4L80's interchanged. I think there was a short period where they weren't electronically controlled. Maybe that's what he meant. I will ask him to clarify. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drhach Posted November 16, 2021 Author Share Posted November 16, 2021 (edited) A few small updates. The transmission works like a top. However, the new yoke that I bought on Ebay is leaking through the press in fitting at the back of the yoke. My floor is now fully rust proofed :(. I put the car in storage. So, that will be first on my list when I get her back out in the Spring. I did some work on the shift quadrant to get all of the "R's" and "D's" lined up. Obviously the Dynaflow and the ST400 have different shift patterns. Not perfect, but pretty good for hand painted. I think it will look better when it's on the car. Also, putting the finishing touches on the this. My inner 12 year old just had to have it. Edited November 16, 2021 by drhach (see edit history) 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drhach Posted April 27, 2022 Author Share Posted April 27, 2022 Spring has sprung. I go the car out of storage. I took out the driveline and dropped it back off at the shop. They're going to weld the plug in the back of the yoke. Also, some dummy didn't do a great job measuring for the new driveshaft. So, I'm going to have them add about an inch. It's probably fine but the more engagement I can get the better and it's there anyway. I'm hoping to get it back and installed this weekend. I also looked at my work on that shift quadrant. I can't help but think that it looks a little too "homemade". So I took another tack. I found a shift quadrant from a 66 Riviera and modified that to fit. I think it came out pretty good. Here's the before and after. Originally, the shift points were engraved in toe the front plastic. I cut a piece of plexiglass to go in there. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NailheadBob Posted April 29, 2022 Share Posted April 29, 2022 (edited) On 9/6/2021 at 11:06 AM, drhach said: The work continues. I finished all of my wiring. Pretty much all done and waiting for the driveline. Otherwise she's ready to go. I primed the oil pump just to validate the oil pressure gauge is working. I may hit the temp gauge with a heat gun just to test that. Hopefully I get the driveline this week. The bad news is that my wipers dont work. So, I'll have to work on that. If that's my biggest problem, I'll be very happy. I believe that I read an article on 1962 wipers not working and was a common problem and a simple fix to add additional ground wire to wiper motor, I will look to find article and update later. Bob Clean flat ground strap at wiper motor with small wire brush or fine grit sandpaper and add additional ground wire from ground strap to body. Edited April 30, 2022 by NailheadBob update (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drhach Posted May 5, 2022 Author Share Posted May 5, 2022 I was able to get the wipers working. I had to take the motor apart and fiddle with it. I paid a guy to rebuild it and I guess he got it 90% there. But you need the whole 100% if you want wipers. I think the brushes weren't seated properly. I tried to get in touch with the guy who did the rebuild and he never responded so I ended up doing it myself. It was a pain in the neck and I was a little annoyed given what I pad to get the thing rebuilt. But they work now. Regarding the power steering, I think I'm sucking air in to the system. Also it is leaking like a sieve from the front o-ring. I ordered rebuild kit. I'm not sure how soon I'll get it done. Hopefully I can get that done in the next week or two. It looks like a pretty straight forward job. Fluid loss has been an issue since I've had the car. But I think having the pump sitting empty outside of the car while I rebuilt the engine made the seals dry up even more. The engine was such a sludge pit that I never really noticed that my losses were from the o-ring. I also had issues with the gasket on the cap and I figured most of it was coming from there. I picked up my driveshaft yesterday and got that in. It's shafting nicely. I did find that my shift quadrant is still off a little. I'll have to tweak that and get it closer. But it's good to know that I can drive the car if I need to. Also, I installed my new manifold. I put in exhaust crossover block-offs for the intake ports while I had the manifold off. Previously, the fuel was vaporizing over night and I had to fill the float bowl every morning that i wanted to drive it. It looks like this solved that issue. So, 2 steps forward and one back. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NailheadBob Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 Great news on the progress, I love the looks of the dual carbs, I also had dual carbs on my 1962 Electra I used to own, do you know what the part number is on the filter and paper elements? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drhach Posted May 5, 2022 Author Share Posted May 5, 2022 (edited) Hi Bob, I bought them on Ebay. Here's a link to the item(s) CHROME 6 3/8" FLAT TOP DUAL QUAD AIR CLEANER SET 5 1/8" 4 bbl #229P-2 | eBay I'm not sure of the quality. My long term plan is to use a K&N oval filter, but I'll need to make a housing and I haven't gotten around to it yet. That will probably be a Winter project. I still have some tuning to do on the carbs. They're running really rich and there's a bit of a bog on hard acceleration. I did the bare minimum just to get them on there. I'll break out the vacuum gauge and get them dialed the rest of the way. Edited May 5, 2022 by drhach (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drhach Posted December 13, 2022 Author Share Posted December 13, 2022 Wintertime update. The car is in storage now. Lots of fiddling this Summer and Fall. I had a brand-new vacuum modulator fail on me. Talk about a smoke show. I also added a new exhaust system and had them weld in a bung for an 02 sensor. With that and a vacuum gauge, I was able to get the car to run pretty good. In spite of the exhaust crossover blocks on the intake, I was still getting a fuel vaporization issue with the car when I ran for extended periods of time in traffic. I bought some phenolic and made a couple of spacers and that seemed to have done the trick. Last but not least, I've been chasing a vibration that has followed the car through an engine rebuild, a transmission swap and two driveshaft balancings. I started looking at the pinion angle and found that I just couldn't quite get it in to spec. There's an adjuster on the top of the axle. But I maxed it out and I'm still off by a couple of degrees. Given that the car is 60 years old, I think I need to start with new bushings. The 62' is an odd duck and bushings aren't available. I found some from James at Best offer Counts for the 63-65 Riviera, but those have a 1/2" bolt versus the 5/8" on my car. This will be my project in the Spring. I also bought new Springs. I'm hoping that new bushings and Springs will change my ride height enough to give me a little more pinion angle adjustment. We'll see. Moderators, maybe you could move this thread to "Me and MY Buick"? I'm not sure who I need to speak to about that. Regards, Dan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drhach Posted December 14, 2022 Author Share Posted December 14, 2022 Thanks to whoever moved this. I thought I'd add a picture as she sat before wrapping up the season. I found some 64' wheels in California that were pretty nice. I have the correct center caps too. But I'm afraid to leave them alone after seeing what it would cost to replace them. My door panels are at SMS getting redone. In the meantime I have some "Fawn" door panels on the car. SMS said "May of 2023". Fingers crossed. I know the car isn't 100% stock, but it is 99.9% Buick. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62Lesabre Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 Car is coming along great. Question on the door panels? Is this SMS company rebuilding them? Or making new ones? Mine are in rough shape on the bottoms of the front doors from age. The top portion and trim pieces are fine. I was trying to figure out how to go about restoring them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drhach Posted December 23, 2022 Author Share Posted December 23, 2022 They're rebuilding them. They will reuse my trim pieces and install new vinyl over new door cards. You can buy new door cards for Impalas. I debated about trying to recover a set of then using original vinyl pieces. But most of my lower vinyl was either ripped up or replaced with the wrong stuff. What color is your interior? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62Lesabre Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 On 12/23/2022 at 7:51 AM, drhach said: They're rebuilding them. They will reuse my trim pieces and install new vinyl over new door cards. You can buy new door cards for Impalas. I debated about trying to recover a set of then using original vinyl pieces. But most of my lower vinyl was either ripped up or replaced with the wrong stuff. What color is your interior? Its an Aqua color 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drhach Posted January 11, 2023 Author Share Posted January 11, 2023 I like that color. The spare set that I have is called "fawn". Not nearly as nice of a color yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llmorris75 Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 Did you get the vibration to go away with the work you did? Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drhach Posted October 3, 2023 Author Share Posted October 3, 2023 I didn't. My last effort was to try to get the pinion angle correct as stated above. I got the suspension bushings from James. I had to drill them out to 5/8". They're Riviera bushings which are 1/2". I also bought a new set of springs. I'm hoping that will all get my ride height where it needs to be in order get my pinion angle correct. Honestly, I'm a little disappointed in myself that I didn't get around to it this Summer. I bought another car and have kind of put this particular issue on the back burner. At this point, I need to press the bushings into the spare set of trailing arms that I bought and then do the swap. The way things are going, I don't know that I will get it done this year. I remain hopeful that this will solve the issue. I've driven the car a few thousand miles, and the vibration is mild but still present. So it hasn't fixed itself Thanks for asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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