Getting an antique car running

[mrcvs]

Obviously, the best way to get a car running, especially since one such as this one ran until parked in the garage one year, and then it didn’t.  The obvious culprits are not it—there is gas, and it’s fresh, it is unlikely to be the points or condenser, it isn’t a dead battery…

 

The obvious thing to do is to have a spare of every conceivable part and swap each out until it does run, except I have very few spares of anything.

 

So, I think my question is how do those of you with very early and obscure antique automobiles source obscure parts and have them on hand?  Parts, or lack thereof, are the underlying problem here.

[Str8-8-Dave]

It's really hard to make suggestions because you didn't tell us...

 

What year/make/model of car is it

 

What fuel and ignition system checks did you actually perform

 

In general bet I bet it is either ignition or fuel system related, you just didn't finish inspecting.

 

Give us some info to work with and we can then make some informed suggestions on how to proceed with trouble shooting and where you might find parts.

Edited August 12, 2021 by Str8-8-Dave (see edit history)

[JFranklin]

Clean and test the points, check for spark, check compression, spray some starting fluid down the carb and see if it fires.   Before you run it change the oil and grease the chassis.

[TerryB]

I recall you had a Model A and a Maxwell.  I take it it’s the Maxwell that is not working.  Fuel and spark need to be verified.  

[mrcvs]

Okay let me get back to you after a few preliminary things are done.  I may need to backtrack as I can’t recall where we left off other than it ran 2 years ago and we couldn’t get it running last summer although I had little time to try to do so other than we know it wasn’t the usual easy culprits.

 

Yes, it’s the 1917 Maxwell.  I lost my barn space and had to sell the 1930 Ford.  The plan was to eventually buy a farm with outbuildings/garages for vehicle storage but the real estate market isn’t exactly cooperating.

 

If I didn’t have to work such long hours on site, I could get more stuff done at home.  Isn’t that what telecommuting is for, LOL?

[mrcvs]

But, I think my original question was where does one obtain a boatload of duplicate parts for obscure models?  A gentleman in Nebraska may have the right points and condenser.  If I get around to this soon, I might order this from him, but I would still like to have a spare of everything mechanical  except for the engine block.  I even have a spare engine block, but it’s for a 1915 Maxwell.

[Bloo]

You don't. You try to collect things you might need when they become available. Otherwise, if the Internet is no help (ebay, etc) and the classifieds in your club newsletter is no help, you just have to make the parts.

 

Cars of that age, and their parts, were made to be overhauled and adjusted until completely worn out, and then maybe some intervention from a specialist was needed. Of course some parts needed replacing but it was much less of a thing than it is now. There were thousands of car manufacturers before WW1. Can you imagine a parts store trying to support that? And, where would the closest one be? When necessary you would order parts from the car manufacturer by telegram, using special codes from the parts catalog to shorten the telegram and lower the cost. Maybe you would write a letter instead if you weren't in a hurry. Parts would be shipped out to you most likely by train.

 

So collect spare parts when you can, understanding that they may need just as much work as the ones on the car. When something is bad, take it apart. Adjust or rebuild according to the manual (if there was ever a manual), possibly using small pieces from one of your spares. If the part is beyond minor adjustment and overhaul, then do whatever is necessary to make it new again. At that point you often need the help of a machinist. Sometimes parts need to be made from scratch. Generally speaking, the less sophisticated the car is, the easier the parts are to make. Somebody had to make the part back then. Usually it is possible. Sometimes it isn't. Recent technology has made it easier (see what @edinmass  @Gary_Ash and @JV Puleo have been up to in the White thread). Around my house, some things get made with basic tools, an anvil, and an acetylene torch. Many of the early mechanics were really blacksmiths. I know a couple of machinists who help out when I need them.

 

For something like ignition points, you should get some while available! If they are gone you will just have to keep looking I think. I have heard of people replacing the contact point on the arm, but have not done it. That would be a last resort. Find out what the contacts were made of originally. It might be silver or platinum or something easier to work with than the tungsten used today.

 

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by Bloo (see edit history)

[JFranklin]

I doubt there is one source for parts, the hobby is in the collecting, fixing, & driving your car, that is why we go to swap meets, have ample literature, & friends on sites like this one. I have run across a shop that actually replaces the tungsten points on obsolete contact sets. Maybe a search might find him. Swap meets are starting up since last year, maybe you can find one to attend.

[Rusty_OToole]

6 hours ago, mrcvs said:

Obviously, the best way to get a car running, especially since one such as this one ran until parked in the garage one year, and then it didn’t.  The obvious culprits are not it—there is gas, and it’s fresh, it is unlikely to be the points or condenser, it isn’t a dead battery…

 

The obvious thing to do is to have a spare of every conceivable part and swap each out until it does run, except I have very few spares of anything.

 

So, I think my question is how do those of you with very early and obscure antique automobiles source obscure parts and have them on hand?  Parts, or lack thereof, are the underlying problem here.

This is a terrible idea. Unfortunately it is the mistake most amateurs make. They throw random parts at the car and get everything so messed up the oldest mechanic in the world couldn't tell what is wrong without going over EVERYTHING step by step. Then they come here and expect someone to tell them the one simple trick to get it running. But there isn't one.

I have revived old cars that have been out of commission for 30 years, maybe more. I always start with the assumption that it ran when parked or maybe there was 1 thing wrong.

First step is to casually inspect under the hood. Is anything missing? Are the spark plugs and air cleaner in place? Is there oil in the crankcase?  If  the car was stored indoors or at least had the hood closed, 9 times out of 10 I can have it running in a couple of hours.

Take out the plugs and squirt some oil down the spark plug holes. You may also want to take off the valve cover and check the valves are free. Give them a light tap with a hammer, if they go boing they are free, if they go thud they are stuck. Oil the valve stems and rocker arms.

Once you turn it over a couple of turns by hand you can try the starter. Spin it with the plugs out until oil pressure comes up.

Now turn your attention to ignition. Are you getting sparks? Is the ignition getting juice? Maybe the points need to be cleaned, if you do this carefully you will not disturb the dwell or timing. I could tell you how to diagnose step by step but it would take a while.

OK you have sparks happening at the right time in the right order.

I should have said, to disconnect the fuel line if the gas is iffy. Smell it, if it smells like gas ok, if it smells like old stinky varnish STOP it will gum up your motor so bad a safe cracker couldn't fix it. Rig up a small gas tank like a motor boat gas tank or a gas can with fresh gas. I like to use gas with a little 2 stroke oil mixed in for luck.

Sometimes I will carefully take the top off the carburetor and clean it out but usually just pour a little gas down the carb and fire it up. You may need to do this a few times before the gas gets pumped up to the carb. Usually the engine will start, maybe run a little ragged and blow smoke from the oil in the cylinders but settle down after a few minutes. If the carb is bad I will take the top off, clean it out and blow thru the passages, worst case take it off and rebuild it.

 

Most times it takes nothing more than cleaning and oiling a few parts to get one running.

[Terry Bond]

You're asking multiple ? here so take a deep breath and pause a min. Yes, we all enjoy having spares on the shelf when we need them. Most often, it takes walking your but off at Hershey to find some of them.  Networking with other club members with similar cars is also a great idea. Keep active here on the forums too. There are often club members who end up with garage clear out goodies to dispose of. Don't miss any opportunity or leave any stones unturned.

On to the next ? Basic trouble shooting to begin with. If you don't already have any lit, start accumulating anything you can get your hands on. The AACA Library and Research center can be your best friend. As you methodically evaluate systems like fuel, ignition, etc, keep it simple. Don't just start replacing parts to see what happens. 

Terry

Edited August 12, 2021 by Terry Bond (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

Another peculiarity, the older the car the less likely they were to swap parts. When I started in the garage business in the sixties every garage had a sparkplug sandblaster, they did not replace plugs they cleaned and gapped them until they were worn out. About that time, spark plugs got cheap enough they would throw them away and put in new ones at every tuneup and they junked the sandblasters. Same with points and condensers, they would clean file and adjust the points until worn out. I have often gotten old cars running without replacing any parts, or in some cases replaced a broken wire or something. I don't recall a single one where I was stymied by a part that was not available or that I could not McGyver.

[vermontboy]

If you have space available a parts car (or chassis, or motor) is always a good investment - OK usually a good investment. And always stop at interesting looking garage sales - I picked up a Stromberg 97 carb with a rebuild tag on it labelled "washing machine motor?" for $5 and an old rusty Stanley multiplane with a full set of blades for $2 at the same garage sale a few years back.... you never know.