Lahti35 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 I've got a dilemma on my '68 FORD truck engine... On one of the heads someone couldn't get the exhaust manifold bolts out of one of the "ears" so they drilled the bolt out (off center) and then widened the hole with a die grinder or something to make it more or less tapered from the outside in. They had a bolt with a nut holding the manifold on and it looks pretty bad. My options are to find a new head or fix what I have. Can anyone recommend a good cast welder? The hole is too large for a threaded insert and with it being on an ear there isn't much room to drill even larger... I've read there are some nickel welding rods out there that work good for cast. Perhaps brazing with a threaded insert? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 Don't wast you time. Buy a pair of reman heads and just swap them out........fast, easy, and done. Cast iron won't weld properly, and will crack after cooling. On such a modern vehicle, any shop or mechanic can easily doo the job in a day. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stooge Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) Agreed with Ed on sourcing a replacement. i've done some tig and mig cast iron repairs, but for low stress parts like cracked exhaust manifolds and the like, where you can get a good pre heat, and post weld cool down, and the repairs are not really structural. Add to that, assuming the metal is contaminated with decades of use, i would have low expectations of a lasting repair. Having said that, crown alloys, harris, and most of the welding supplies manufacturers offer some kind of nickel wire and rod for welding cast alloys, depending on the weld method and budget you're using, if you want to give it a try, if you are the one doing the welding. if its a farmed out repair, i would source a new/ reman head and you'll be time and probably money ahead. Edited June 17, 2021 by Stooge (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Str8-8-Dave Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) Or don't weld it at all. Install an oversize steel threaded plug then drill and tap for the proper size original bolt or stud. Drill the existing hole out to nearest tap size and tap it. Install a piece of threaded rod or bolt to plug the hole and finish it flush with the machined manifold surface. Use high strength Loc-Tite or stake to prevent the plug from moving during the next step. Drill and tap the plug to accept the original manifold bolt or stud. I repair lots of stuff this way and never have a problem. Edited June 17, 2021 by Str8-8-Dave (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 13 minutes ago, Str8-8-Dave said: Or don't weld it at all. Install an oversize steel threaded plug then drill and tap for the proper size original bolt or stud. Drill the existing hole out to nearest tap size and tap it. Install a piece of threaded rod or bolt to plug the hole and finish it flush with the machined manifold surface. Use high strength Loc-Tite or stake to prevent the plug from moving during the next step. Drill and tap the plug to accept the original manifold bolt or stud. I repair lots of stuff this way and never have a problem. Assuming you can get at it square, and drill a round hole from a tapered hole.........not gonna happen in the truck. A replacement head is the correct repair, one time and done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahti35 Posted June 17, 2021 Author Share Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Str8-8-Dave said: Or don't weld it at all. Install an oversize steel threaded bushing drilled and tapped for the proper size original bolt or stud. Whoever messed the holes up in the past really did a number on them, there isn't enough meat to install threaded inserts or I would. I may run it by the machine shop to confirm but I think they are toast. Somebody used a torch and a die grinder to remove the old bolts and open up the holes significantly. There is a large amount of cast iron missing now where the bolt used to go. I think i'll skip the welding so that leaves a rebuild or new head. All the re-manufactured heads I can find are made by ATK/VEGE, their reviews are not very flattering... a local rebuild may be the way to go at this point. Edited June 17, 2021 by Lahti35 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 What engine is it? Are heads really unobtainium? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 24 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said: What engine is it? Are heads really unobtainium? Matt beat me to it. It's a 68 Ford truck. The engine is an FE motor (either 360 or 390), right? These are not exactly unobtanium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy J Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 Run from ATK.I've dealt with them before.If something goes wrong,you lose because their warranty isn't worth the paper it's written on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 So long as you aren't looking for rare castings with specific date codes, used FE heads are running $60 apiece and up on ebay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahti35 Posted June 17, 2021 Author Share Posted June 17, 2021 2 hours ago, Matt Harwood said: What engine is it? Are heads really unobtainium? It's a FE360, nothing spectacular but I didn't find anything available for rebuilt heads beyond that ATK company with a bad rap. Others were out of stock, maybe pandemic issues? I'm not opposed to rebuilding a set from cores with the aid of a local machinist so i'm going to go that route. Might as well do a pair. 1 hour ago, joe_padavano said: So long as you aren't looking for rare castings with specific date codes, used FE heads are running $60 apiece and up on ebay. I did poke around epay and found a few heads but they look in worse shape than mine, specifically with the broken exhaust ears. I did find a guy on facebook marketplace with a set of later heads that would work but the ad is old, no reply as of yet... A core will pop up somewhere, just have to do a little digging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) Get it off of there and to a good machine shop. probably not an automotive machine shop. Any problem with the surface or holes on those is best done out of the car/truck. If the holes are too big for Heli-Coils, there is another style of thread insert called a "Time-Sert" that is bigger. If you don't have enough cast iron for that, as is often the case on an ear, then I agree it is time for another casting and at that point you are rebuilding the heads. That is also true if you have it welded. There is too much heat in that location for brazing in my opinion. Loctite wont work either, as it releases with heat. You can't really tolerate anything more than the most minor wear or boogering of the threads in that location. Once repaired, check the surfaces of both the head carefully for wear and erosion. If there is any issue at all with the surfaces on the head or manifold, have them cut or ground while it is all apart. You need both surfaces dead flat. Use factory-type sheetmetal gaskets. Don't use those fiber/metal composition ones with all the holes stamped in them, or kid yourself thinking you will accomodate a little warpage with the gasket. You'll be screwing with it again next week if you do. Either use the factory hardware, or good bolts. If the factory stuff is shot (sounds like it) I would get grade 8. In any event, don't get less than grade 5. Whatever you do, never use any cheap soft washers that will squeeze down into the holes, or any lockwashers right on the cast iron. The manifold expands with heat more than the head does, and nothing can stop it. It gets longer. It slides a tiny bit on the gaskets. If motion is blocked something is going to bend or break, and sooner than later. Put the manifold on the head surface and with the bolts started in the holes look where the bolts are located. If the manifold holes are touching the bolts on the outside (toward the front or back of the engine) that's OK. If any are touching on the inside (toward the center of the engine) you will need to open up the holes a little. Done right, the gaskets will stay in over 100k miles easily. Good luck, and let us know how it turns out. Edited June 17, 2021 by Bloo (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 6 hours ago, joe_padavano said: So long as you aren't looking for rare castings with specific date codes, used FE heads are running $60 apiece and up on ebay. Just don’t drop them in your foot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 So, for a 60 dollar core head, someone wants to spend three hundred bucks doing a half assed fix? That’s why I said swap both of them out........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 Check out the local junk yards, Pick and Pull etc. Those heads were used in millions of full size cars and pickup trucks, they are not rare, you may find a used set in good shape or worst case, get some good cores and have them rebuilt by a reliable local shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 21 minutes ago, Rusty_OToole said: Check out the local junk yards, Pick and Pull etc. Those heads were used in millions of full size cars and pickup trucks, they are not rare, you may find a used set in good shape or worst case, get some good cores and have them rebuilt by a reliable local shop. Yeah, Ford made millions of them, and pretty much all of them have been recycled into Kias by now. The last time an FE was installed in a production vehicle was 1976. Few wrecking yards have a selection of 45 year old vehicles anymore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 My local junk yard just got in a couple of 1954 Packard straight eights. You never know your luck. I bet I could find a set of FE heads within a couple of weeks. If not from a junk yard from Facebook, Craigslist etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 18 minutes ago, Rusty_OToole said: My local junk yard just got in a couple of 1954 Packard straight eights. You never know your luck. I bet I could find a set of FE heads within a couple of weeks. If not from a junk yard from Facebook, Craigslist etc. Exactly my point. You'll find them on ebay, C-list, FB marketplace, but not in a wrecking yard. Here in the mid-Atlantic, you rarely see a vehicle over 20 years old in a yard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Str8-8-Dave Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 On 6/17/2021 at 10:44 AM, Lahti35 said: Whoever messed the holes up in the past really did a number on them, there isn't enough meat to install threaded inserts or I would. For sure if it's that badly munged up a new head casting is in order. Edinmass' idea gets the nod in this case. I offered the plug/bushing as a less expensive way to save the casting and this method is useful in many cases but not this one... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-mman Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 (edited) On 6/17/2021 at 5:33 PM, joe_padavano said: Exactly my point. You'll find them on ebay, C-list, FB marketplace, but not in a wrecking yard. I am in California, I have 4 sitting in my garage and there was a pair at my local Pick A Part last week. Shipping a pair somewhere would be the biggest expense, not finding them. These folks have a bunch of Ford truck parts lying around. Someone might even be close to the OP. http://www.fordification.com/forum/ It is also an EXCELLENT site to learn about this era of Ford trucks. Edited June 19, 2021 by m-mman (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 19 minutes ago, m-mman said: I am in California, ...and there was a pair at my local Pick A Part last week. Maybe in CA, but in the rest of the country, the Fords look like this... (sorry it was toooooo easy). 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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