MargaritavilleBuick Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 If converting to a 12 volt system, can a voltage regulator be used as an interface to allow the use of the original dual horns (6-volt)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLYER15015 Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 There are all kinds if voltage reducers on the market. Definitely one is required for the amp gage also. Are you going to a one wire alternator ? Why the conversion ? My '40 LTD runs fine on 6 volts. Just asking. Mike in Colorado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) The trouble with 12 volt conversions is that getting 6 volt accessories and gauges working is a chore. As a tech years ago, I never saw one single converted car come through my service bay that had everything working. To this day I have never seen one. I have heard a lot of guys protesting "But it worked before". Reducing voltage in the traditional way (resistors) requires that you burn exactly as much energy in the resistor as the accessory uses. They won't work for everything, and they get really hot in use. There are other types of converters. You'll probably wind up with a gauge or 2 under the dash. For the horn, try a Chrysler (ignition) ballast resistor. It wont get too hot just honking the horn, but mount it with plenty of space around it, and nothing flammable. On that bad day when the wire in the steering column shorts out and you can't shut the horn off, THEN it will get hot. You might need a separate resistor for each horn if the voltage falls too much. Edited February 26, 2020 by Bloo (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 3 hours ago, FLYER15015 said: Definitely one is required for the amp gage also. I always understood that an ammeter did not care about voltage (pressure) only about amps (flow). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Nelson Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Been there, done that...... I converted my ‘38’ to 12 volts. The horns are the issue. They will work on 12 volts - providing you don’t use them more than a few moments that they are needed. I use mine momentarily - - a couple of short beep’s works wonders. Remember, back in the mid ‘50’, the car manufacturers reduced the sound because they were very loud. So using your old horns on 12 volts has been a no problems for me. I live in a very busy part of Florida with a ton of tourists trying to get around. Drive your great old car as if your grandmother was in the front seat with you. My conversion was smooth. I got 12 volt light bulbs to replace every thing including head lights. The manufacturers did not give you enough candle power bulbs for todays needs. I’ve added ‘37’ Ford LED tail lights to supplement the low powered tail lights. E-mail me @ Oldbuickjim@gmail.com for some pix of what I did. Trust me, those LED tail lights were a life saver when I had a front tire BLOW OUT at night on the Interstate. I pulled off on to the side and the LED tail lights were very bright so I could be seen for oncoming traffic. Waited for the Road Ranger to keep the traffic away from me so I could change my tire and get on my way - - -. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Nelson Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Converting to 12 volts is a issue - - I can utilize modern equipments. Your original 6 volt starter will work nicely on 12 volts. You will have a problem with the heater fan. My biggest issue was I NEEDED air conditioning here in Florida. That requires 12 volts to make that happen. The rest was just come along items. I’m modifying my newest addition to my 2 car garage. I found a 1935 series 58 Buick. Mom says if it’s full, no more cars. I am converting it to 12 volts also. It will have over drive so I can drive and keep up with traffic. Buick guys can get over drive mod’s easily from the guy who did Lloyd Young’s mod’s. I now own two of them. I drive 60 to 65 mph easily with the engine turning only 2200 to 2350 all day. My ‘38’ Buick coupe cruises 65 mph and 2350 rpm. Long trips easily - my longest was 1800 miles round trip. Ya man - - - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Nelson Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 BTW, Only the gas gage needs protection. Change the bulbs, add the RUNTZ voltage unit to keep it working and the rest need nothing. Don’t use anything but the RUNTZ protester. There are others that are cheeper but I wouldn’t trust them. A failure in that area gets to be very expensive to fix. The amp meter is a current device, not voltage. The temp gage and oil pressure are mechanical. This is only my opinion but I’ve been there, done that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyfamily Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 I have decided to do a due output within my generator housing! So I will be keeping the car, it’s drivetrain, all of its gauges and stock lighting running on the 6 volt side of things. then the 12v output will run anything else I want to charge or run, up to about 20amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tinindian said: I always understood that an ammeter did not care about voltage (pressure) only about amps (flow). True. A 1936 Buick charging system, IIRC, is a third brush setup with a maximum output of about 17 amps. I don't know how much full scale is on the ammeter, but probably not near enough for a typical alternator conversion. You would probably have to add a shunt to the ammeter if you wanted to use it. Edited February 26, 2020 by Bloo (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyfamily Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 (edited) Morgan I would never tell someone else what to do with their car, after all it’s their car! I might not always agree with other people’s decisions but in the end, it’s their property and their hard earned cash! I’ve worked in the automotive business for 20 years and I see people do some amazing things to their vehicles to make them their own, I also see some that makes me think “what the hell are they thinking?!” But at the end of the day, it isn’t my vehicle! Nor is it my $$.... Edited February 27, 2020 by Crazyfamily (see edit history) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Nelson Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 Well, I see that this opinion on keeping our cars running in todays conditions has ruffeled some feathers. I enjoy driving my ‘38’ Buick in todays traffic and if that is what it takes to keep it safe, it’s my opinion. My Buick is not a trailer queen, I drive mine..... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 I daily drive a 36 Pontiac on 6 volts. I don't even own a trailer. It is true I don't drive it in the winter, but that is because I am trying to preserve it, not because there is any trouble with the electrical system. I have had several 6 volt winter cars over the years. I drove a bathtub Nash for a couple of winters. What a great car. They go in the snow better than you would think, and the heater is amazing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MargaritavilleBuick Posted February 27, 2020 Author Share Posted February 27, 2020 One of my biggest enjoyments while driving is listening to music. With past restorations I have had the factory radio upgraded internally with digital components that allow for bluetooth and satellite radio without destroying the visual integrity of the original features. Sadly, this covert upgrade requires a 12 volt system. I honestly hate converting the car, but I want to enjoy 1930s swing music while driving, not crackling sounds from a two-bit AM radio station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 14 hours ago, Jim Nelson said: Well, I see that this opinion on keeping our cars running in todays conditions has ruffeled some feathers. I enjoy driving my ‘38’ Buick in todays traffic and if that is what it takes to keep it safe, it’s my opinion. My Buick is not a trailer queen, I drive mine..... Ah well, Jim, I am with you, but we are all different, I guess. Wish folks could just answer the questions or ===. Mom still comes to mind. If you can't say something good ====. Well , you know the rest. The old story of which is better, red head or blond? Never will there be a consensus. Aren't old cars fun? Ben 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 Keep in mind that resale values plummet when you modify a car from stock original. Nobody wants a 1926 Buick with the engine removed from the front and replaced by a corvair engine in the back, the wheels replaced by caterpillar tracks, and the body removed and replaced by an oscar meyer weiner. Converting 6 V to 12 V is nice but you have to convert it back if you expect to sell it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 Would wiring two 6 Volt horns in series (instead of parallel) work OK using 12 Volts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Eaton Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 (edited) First let me say my electrical knowledge is second handed at best...... I would think you could find a modern electronic (mystery) box that would drop 12V to 6V that way the things that were originally 6V would be happy and the new/modern 12v things would get the voltage they need. Just an example the Reatta (and Riviera, Eldorado, etc) in the late '80's had a box call the "central power supply"....it converted 12V to 7V for some of the low voltage electronics used in the digital dash, and CRT. I'm told they actually wanted 5V but everything I can find says the central power supply put out 7V. These are not plentiful and I don't know what amount of accessories they would drive, but it is just a thought. Below is the diagram from the Reatta/Riviera service manual. Horns....back in the '50's when I started driving I put those old long horns (6V Chrysler were plentiful) on several cars that were 12v and never remember any of them failing. One of Murphy's sub-rules is "if you don't know if it will work there is a 50/50 chance it will" Edited March 1, 2020 by Barney Eaton (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 I have a spare 6 volt horn, I hooked it up to 12 volts and it works find. It's a little louder and has a slightly higher pitch, but it works fine and nothing smokes. It's the buzzer type of horn used from the 30's to the 70's, not the motor driven horn of the Aoooga years. Hook your horn up to 12 volts and see how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pont35cpe Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 (edited) My first car in 1964 a `47 Chevy, g-ma and g-pa`s old car with a froze and busted block. I put a `55 chevy engine/trans/r-end and converted to 12v, installed `56 Oldsmobile gauges(12v)into the original cluster, changed voltage regulator and all the bulbs. I left the original horns, relay, and all the wiring. My younger brother has the car now and those 6v horns are still working. Really loud! Edited March 1, 2020 by pont35cpe (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Nelson Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 I considered doing that BUT you must take the first horn and isolate it from the firewall. The mounting of the horn becomes the half of the circuit to run 6 volts. If you want to do it, mount the firstborn on a insulating mount and then run the power thru the first horn on the way to the second horn..... Its more trouble than its worth. The 6 volt horns work well as long as you don't "lay on" the horn. A few momentary beeps in todays traffic should be enough. They were wired for high current so the 12 volt power will work for a long time if treated like an old man should be.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 A buzzer-type horn works by breaking the circuit over and over again. If you put them in series, the results could be really screwy. Try it on the bench before putting any time into insulating one horn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyfamily Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 Or you run two separate systems, a 6v and touch nothing in the car so it keeps its originality, AND a separate 12v system to run modern items of your choosing! This is the way I am going..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MargaritavilleBuick Posted March 1, 2020 Author Share Posted March 1, 2020 32 minutes ago, Crazyfamily said: Or you run two separate systems, a 6v and touch nothing in the car so it keeps its originality, AND a separate 12v system to run modern items of your choosing! This is the way I am going..... Aren't you going to have to run an alternator for the 12V alternate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyfamily Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 8 hours ago, MargaritavilleBuick said: Aren't you going to have to run an alternator for the 12V alternate? No Sir, converting the generator to a dual output so everything will be retained on the 6v side but it will also be able to output 12v as well. Changing over to two 6v Optima batteries wired in series so one battery will run the 6 v side of the vehicle and then combined batteries will take care of the 12v side so it will retain the stock look aside from having two batteries. Everything can be removed easily if needed and besides the generator being rewound no other modifications will be made. AND if needed I can switch out the modified generator out and go back to a stock purely 6v generator if needed! Best of both worlds in my opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MargaritavilleBuick Posted March 2, 2020 Author Share Posted March 2, 2020 5 hours ago, Crazyfamily said: No Sir, converting the generator to a dual output so everything will be retained on the 6v side but it will also be able to output 12v as well. Changing over to two 6v Optima batteries wired in series so one battery will run the 6 v side of the vehicle and then combined batteries will take care of the 12v side so it will retain the stock look aside from having two batteries. Everything can be removed easily if needed and besides the generator being rewound no other modifications will be made. AND if needed I can switch out the modified generator out and go back to a stock purely 6v generator if needed! Best of both worlds in my opinion. Well that sounds like the way to go....but....where are you mounting the second six volt? Currently my car has a flimsy cradle under the seat that barely holds one battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MargaritavilleBuick Posted March 2, 2020 Author Share Posted March 2, 2020 9 hours ago, MargaritavilleBuick said: Well that sounds like the way to go....but....where are you mounting the second six volt? Currently my car has a flimsy cradle under the seat that barely holds one battery. Is this right? I do better with illustration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 Those batteries are in parallel. That just gets you 6 volts with more current capacity. Series is what it takes to get 12v. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 6V horns work fine on 12V and you don't have to re-wire the horn circuit because when volts go up amps go down for the same watts. Even if the watts go up a little, the horn will draw fewer amps on 12 V than it does now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuicksBuicks Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 (edited) For 6 volt horns on 12 volt systems, I use a series resistor made of nichrome wire. The proper length was determined by connecting a voltmeter across the operating horn, and moving a tap (clip lead) along the nichrome until it reads six volts. When I found the correct length of nichrome, I slipped a piece of thin fiberglass sleeving over the wire. From there the nichrome can be wound around a finger and held in place with a tie-wrap. Another method is to use a low resistance, high current potentiometer or rheostat in series with the horn and adjusting it for six volts across the horn. From there the potentiometer resistance can be measured and that value used in a length of nichrome. Nichrome wire and sleeving came from Mouser as I recall. Edited March 3, 2020 by BuicksBuicks more info added (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 Doesn't that nichrome wire get hot? That's the stuff they use to make heater elements in toasters and space heaters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyfamily Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 On 3/2/2020 at 5:52 AM, MargaritavilleBuick said: Well that sounds like the way to go....but....where are you mounting the second six volt? Currently my car has a flimsy cradle under the seat that barely holds one battery. I have a second battery tray but my goal is to mount two 6v Optima batteries side by side in one battery tray! I’m never parting w the car so having two batteries isn’t a big deal to me but the dual output Genny and the two batteries should fix me up perfectly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyfamily Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 On 3/2/2020 at 3:50 PM, MargaritavilleBuick said: Is this right? I do better with illustration. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyfamily Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 See above but yes you get the concept of how to get 6v and 12v out of two 6v batteries but refer to my diagram above for correct wiring in series or parallel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuicksBuicks Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 The nichrome wire barely gets warm. I suppose it might get rather hot if I kept the horn blasting constantly. I use the horn so seldom the wire doesn't even have a chance to get warm. Even so, the fiberglass sleeving provides heat protection and self-shorting prevention. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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