1932 (31) PA got here, and the sorting out BEGINS

[Brooklyn Beer]

Stupid question here. They say invert carb to adjust.  So I am removing the brass bowl and flipping carb upside down ?

 

[ArticiferTom]

That's a good pic kieser31   , yes on upside down , gasket OFF .

[keiser31]

1 hour ago, Brooklyn Beer said:

Stupid question here. They say invert carb to adjust.  So I am removing the brass bowl and flipping carb upside down ?

 

Yep. As ArticiferTom says.

Edited January 18, 2020 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[Brooklyn Beer]

OK, did as instructed and float was about 3/8th out.  Supposed to be 11/16 and was about an inch. So bent the little brass tab and lowered (raised) the float till it was 11/16th off the machined (gasket ridge) area.  reinstalled and it is still dripping gas at about 1 drip per second out the air inlet opening. Have not got it running but it will fire up and stumble for a few seconds before flooding out? Fuel pump is standard mechanical that was working fine with the previous carb I had on there. The RJH model. It is dripping just when turning over and not at RPM and worse when it fires over.  Carb was totally rebuilt by Bob Clark.

[JamesLay]

your float needle is not seating  or your float is leaking. when i put a carb together i always blow in to inlet with carb inverted, lift up and then let float rest buy its own weight on the needle.look close at the needle and seat .the needle i got  is metal not rubber tipped. its kind or hard to tell if a float is leaking.it olny takes a very little bit of gas leaking into it to make it to heavy.make sure float action is free.some times you can shake the float in your hand and hear the fuel in there.or put it in a cup of water and watch for bubbles.you can also weigh them if you know the weight or maybe have another float to compare weights.as to the rebuilding of these carbs the only seal is the bowl gasket.the accelerator pump has a leather seal that you can make from an old work glove.the idle curcit tube can be a problem on these carbs (pluging up) they are pretty hard to replace.also check your throttle plate shaft .fittmet (throttle shaft movement) to much wear will afect your idle and ported vacuum suppl y. the first thing i should have said is to check fuel supply your pump should have a sedement bowl with a screen.tiny particules  can still get into float bowl . put a trans parent filter in line and see what you get. one tiny grain will mess with your needle and seat.

[Brooklyn Beer]

This was a rebuild on a NOS carb done by a person with a lot of experience (not me) in these carbs.  All the parts you mention are new. I will pull carb off again and check the needle (new).  It is not pouring gas out but dripping out at a good rate.

[carbking]

Quote "It is dripping just when turning over and not at RPM and worse when it fires over."

 

When the engine is turning over, vacuum should prevent the drip. When it fires over, even more so. Would suggest a compression test. Guessing you have a sticking intake valve. There still may be something wrong with the carb; but these symptoms are telling you something else is wrong.

 

Jon.

[Brooklyn Beer]

Car ran and drove good prior to changing the carb out with none of the issues I am seeing now.  Started right up and idled down when at operating temp. Just some lack of power when climbing hills due to vacuum leaks on the acc pump connection.  The drips I see are after turning over when I walk around to the side of the car.  I have not tossed on a remote starter switch yet.  That was the plan today BUT 60 degree's had me installing 2 new storm doors instead.  Grr chores.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Brooklyn Beer (see edit history)

[keiser31]

Do you have a fuel pressure regulator in the line?

[Brooklyn Beer]

No I do not.  it is still running the same mechanical pump that had been on it and has not been altered in any manner.

[JamesLay]

my car did this until I worked on carb.i replaced float and lowered float level.(float bowl to full or nedle not seating completly.there is something to the vacuum leak.( leaking valves)up draft carbs are going to do this if they are over cranked. fuel has no where to go but on the ground.you should have a pretty strong suction with hand over carb throat while cranking.but yes i would check compression first all four cyl should be equal.

[ArticiferTom]

The bowl vent hole is on motor side and near inlet . make sure it is not pushing out there . Time to someone help hit starter so you can watch for leak . Also use proper PPE and extinguisher .

[Brooklyn Beer]

Picked up the makings to install a temp pressure gauge today and will see about getting that in. Will hook up a remote starter switch. Remove air cleaner. And move the fire extinguisher closer. Do not have a compression gauge and will get one. What should I be looking at for both fuel pressure and compression numbers? Is there a recommended compression gauge that I can grab off amazon prime.?  Would this fit the bill?

 

https://www.amazon.com/Compression-Automotive-Cylinder-Motorcycle-Snowmobile/dp/B07C78JH65/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=M2FWH8V0F414&keywords=engine+compression+tester&qid=1579558386&sprefix=engine+compression%2Caps%2C291&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEySUVENE5GM1QwUE03JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMDYwMjM0M1ZBVjhCTDZZRzAyMyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUExMDI2NDUxMUtOQzY3MjFYV0hWNiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

Edited January 20, 2020 by Brooklyn Beer (see edit history)

[JamesLay]

compression # is not that important,all cyl. should be equal  70 lbs.or more would be good.if you have a problem with a valve you will knowit .if avalve is stuck or leaking you could tell this buy just sticking your finger in the spark plug holes and turning over engine. of corse a very small leak would need gauge to detect.make sure you got the manifolds sealing .i don't know fuel pump presser  i think there pretty low like 7 lbs. or so. i have seen people turn the intake manifold around and mount brand new  down draft one barrel carb. and fabracate accelerator linkage . my orig. carb works pretty good but it took quite abit of effort and i still have a pretty black tail pipe.

[keiser31]

I have a fuel regulator on my '31 DB and it is set at 2 1/2 lbs.

[Brooklyn Beer]

any particular fuel regulator model I need to be looking for ?

[keiser31]

3 hours ago, Brooklyn Beer said:

any particular fuel regulator model I need to be looking for ?

I use this type....pancake style....https://www.wish.com/product/598b490cdff0d853faa35fe7?hide_login_modal=true&from_ad=goog_shopping&_display_country_code=US&_force_currency_code=USD&pid=googleadwords_int&c={campaignId}&ad_cid=598b490cdff0d853faa35fe7&ad_cc=US&ad_curr=USD&ad_price=19.76&campaign_id=7203534630&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIlo-c8ZuW5wIVia_sCh0rJQ4MEAQYASABEgJQz_D_BwE

[31plymouth]

I have been running with the mechanical fuel pump for 49 years.  I think I rebuilt the pump once because of low pressure.  I don't see how it could be  too much pressure. Lots of PA's running with that mechanical pump and no regulator. Also, I think my compression is about 50 psi .  If it was running with the old carb,why would a sticking valve be suspect now.   How many miles on the car?

[Brooklyn Beer]

Mileage is unknown. But it is a well cared for car with no rust repair. Cold rain today but a mid 60's weekend coming up. Have a fuel pressure gauge to toss in just to see. 

[Brooklyn Beer]

OK, tomorrow first thing going to dig into the car as today was just too nice to work and instead exercised everyone in the 68 degree temps.  I have a question

 

When I first attempted to fire things up after the carb change I only adjusted the idle mixture as described. It seemed mighty rich in the 20 seconds it ran. Is there any other adjustment needed on the ACC pump perhaps? Or perhaps I just flooded it and it was running bad burning off? Float is set and gas is not pouring out. It just drips out if it doesn't fire over.

 

Will see if I can get her to run with the aid of the remote starter switch and being next to the carb to work the throttle and choke. Just a simple jump over from negative battery side to starter correct ?

 

I have a regulator here and pressure gauge just in case it I need to move forward in that department. Going to remove air cleaner prior to attempting restart.

 

 

[JamesLay]

my idle mixture screw is like only 3/4 turn from close or less.there is a acc. pump screw. it also does not need to be opened more than one turn or even leave it closed until you get it running . its the small  screw just below acc. pump body.idle mix screw is the big brass one.also remember you will only have vacuum when throttle plate is closed.(very low idel}

you cant use remote starter.it will only turn start motor.bendex is ingaged manually by foot control.to check timing remove pipe plug on cyl. head at rear cly drop straight coat hanger wire 10- 12 inch long down hole.rotate engine over by fan blade with spark plugs out until wire is pushed up to top dead center remove distributor cap roator should be pointing at number one cyl. wire post.if not loosen clamp bolt and rotate.  a mark on dist. housing be for you remove dist. cap will help locate rotor contact . also I.D. tag on dist.should be facing you.after that in all in order with engine running you can  tweek the timming with vacuum gauge to peak vacuum or (sweet spot).wile your plugs are out clean them with wire brush and solvent or replace them . check points .020.remember fuel filter . that tank is probaly filthy.

[Brooklyn Beer]

OK, so this morning I did has been suggested and set the idle mixture by screwing it all the way in then backing out 3/4 of a turn. Backed off the idle screw itself so only foot throttle was controlling things.  55 degree garage. Car has sat since last saturday. No choke. Pumped gas twice and it fired instantly. Timing was fine prior to only removing and replacing the carb. Nothing was fiddled with. But oh the blue cloud of a rich running motor. I kept RPM's up some until the blue cloud of running way rich got worse, say 35-40 seconds and shut it down. Puddle of gas.  So something is overloading the needle valve me thinks. Going to let cool some and install the regulator I have first before removing carb and checking float and needle valve. Already checked float once but not the  needle valve. Will set at 2.5 pnds and see what happens there first. This is a rebuilt carb by a quality rebuilder. All new parts. Was a great carb before rebuild. Replaced the wrong RJH with the correct DRT-08

Edited January 26, 2020 by Brooklyn Beer (see edit history)

[Brooklyn Beer]

OK, put in regulator. Set to 2.5 pounds and still dumping gas.

[Brooklyn Beer]

Thinking it has to be the needle valve.  Will get off a little later after yard work. Yeah, already mowing the lawn down here. near 70.

[Brooklyn Beer]

OK, disconnected accel pump and am seeing no difference in the amount of fuel dripping out when it was to run. It will run but can tell it is loading up by the blue cloud. I shut it down after 15 seconds but is still dripping a lot of gas when running

[broker-len]

BROOKLYN BEER !!!!!!    did you get the PM I sent you about carb issue ?

[31plymouth]

Did you contact the person who rebuilt the carb?   

[Brooklyn Beer]

Yes and no reply from builder so am going to pull it off today.  Does anyone know of the correct rebuild kit for DRT-08.  Here is what was used. If it is correct then I need to start looking to see any washers were omitted as when turning over and running it is sucking way too much up. I have never worked on a carb like this but figure I might as well learn now.  Just want to be sure the correct kit was used before I order a spare.  Looking at paperwork from Broker-len there is not many places that fuel can get sucked through unmetered.

[Brooklyn Beer]

OK.  carb off.  Bowl and float off.  Needle valve and seat new.  Needle is rubber tipped.  I noticed throttle shutter is not 100%$ closed when throttle lever is all the way closed.   Going to take off top assembly and look at guts.  If needle valve is seating where else would too much gas be getting pulled through ?

[Brooklyn Beer]

Another observation after removing top assembly. Venturi choke assembly needs pushed down to fully seat even with choke spring installed.

 

Unscrewed ball check housing screw and see nothing behind that screw.  

 

Low speed jet tube is not attached to the screw by any means. It mentions a soldered "sir tight" seal in the casting.  Is this tube soldered to the screw then ? 

 

Stand pipe assembly (for choke venturi) has number "153" stamped into it followed by some symbol with a number 12 opposite side of the 153.  There is no gasket for this underneath after unscrewing.

 

Accel pump inner spring is new as is gasket

 

Here is the jet size   48   13S ?

Edited February 2, 2020 by Brooklyn Beer (see edit history)

[31plymouth]

I have a picture of all of the components of a drt08-209S .  ( from the 1928-1933 master parts book)   I will be away until Monday eve.      I will post  a picture..   I have never seen any complete rebuild kits for DRT 08.

I'm sure Broker len would love to get ahold of one.

[keiser31]

26 minutes ago, 31plymouth said:

I have a picture of all of the components of a drt08-209S .  ( from the 1928-1933 master parts book)   I will be away until Monday eve.      I will post  a picture..   I have never seen any complete rebuild kits for DRT 08.

I'm sure Broker len would love to get ahold of one.

So would I.

 

[Brooklyn Beer]

I am going off the papers he sent me of the break down of the DRT-08 from that time which look like they came from a service bulletin.  Just that I did not take the carb apart before it was sent out for a rebuild.  I have found two possible problem area's which i mention one being the low idle tube not soldered into the screw OR the cast housing.  I am not sure what it is supposed to be soldered too but it says you have to have an airtight seal to the cast housing which tells me it could suck extra fuel past it.  Problem I am having is too much gas getting past the needle valve which mine is new and looks good with a new float. So it either moving up past the choke tube or my low idle tube as far as I can tell. In the parts list it shows the tube and screw being one and it says soldered so my conclusion is to the screw. Can someone confirm that.  The jet is the correct size. But when motor is turning over and when running it is pulling way to much fuel even when regulated down to 2.5 pounds.

[ArticiferTom]

Looks more like  43- 43s  well jet which is listed as one leaner then standard . Measure orifice , make sure it was not drilled out . Should be number drill 56  according to parts list .

[Brooklyn Beer]

1 minute ago, ArticiferTom said:

Looks more like  43- 43s  well jet which is listed as one leaner then standard . Measure orifice , make sure it was not drilled out . Should be number drill 56  according to parts list .

 

What is drill 56 ?

[ArticiferTom]

Did you seal something with PC7 or similar ?

[Brooklyn Beer]

I have not put anything back together yet till I get some guidance on a couple things namely the idle tube.  That gets soldered to the screw correct?  And how (sealer type) do I make it an air tight seal within the cast body?  After that the choke venturi was not going all the way down to seat with choke spring attached.  Weak spring ?  Should the choke venturi seat all the way to the bottom ? 

[ArticiferTom]

I take it to be drill bite rod size , from the  index's like letter and fractional  . Conversion you can look up but all sizes on measuring these carbs list number size . The .0485 is listed as standard size so 56 must be little smaller (leaner ) .

Edited February 2, 2020 by ArticiferTom
spellin (see edit history)

[carbking]

2 hours ago, 31plymouth said:

I have a picture of all of the components of a drt08-209S .  ( from the 1928-1933 master parts book)   I will be away until Monday eve.      I will post  a picture..   I have never seen any complete rebuild kits for DRT 08.

I'm sure Broker len would love to get ahold of one.

 

What would be your bill-of-material for a complete kit?

 

What would you pay for it?

 

How many are you willing to buy?

 

Carter produced 48 DIFFERENT DRT-08 carbs. BEST CASE would be maybe 15 different kits.

 

We produce 2 different "clean-out kits" that between the two, service all 48. We sell an average of 2 per year of 1, and 5 per year of the other.

 

Jon.

Edited February 2, 2020 by carbking (see edit history)

[Brooklyn Beer]

I am not looking at buying another kit from what I was told was a complete kit.  All I have is an orange card with "Classic Carburetor Kit written on with number 2052.  I am more concerned about getting this one working and being I was not the one who rebuilt it, I don't know what is working or not.  I gave a run down of my observations as I dismantled it. Lots of new parts. Was a very experienced person who did the rebuild who came highly recommended.