New York State - Department of Motor Vehicles - Passenger Vehicle Registration Renewal Stub 1955

[yannsaunders@gmail.com]

I have a (poor) copy of such a document (attached) that was (apparently) issued in the state of New York in January of 1955.

Is there any way to determine if this document is authentic or a fake (or forgery)?

 

I have tried unsuccessfully to locate the person named (James Lockhart) and a possible physical location corresponding to the listed address:

 

RFD # 1 in BUFFALO NY

 

What is surprising (to say the least) is that the vehicle ID describers a 1937 Cadillac V16 convertible which, at the time (1955) was registered in Switzerland under lic. # VD19044.

[John_S_in_Penna]

I interviewed one of our AACA region's early members,

regarding the state of the collectible-car market in the

1950's.

 

In the year of your registration, 1955, the Cadillac V-16

was likely a collectible car, though not expensive, and

a model just coming into collectibility.  So it's not too

surprising that someone may have saved the registration

card.  It's a nice piece to have.

 

You could check old AACA rosters and see whether

there is a James Lockhart listed.  The AACA national

office, or AACA Library, could help you with that.

Does someone today keep track of serial numbers of all the

Cadillac V-16's?  That's another route to take.

[46 woodie]

That NY registration looks like the same as the ones in the early '60s, I would think that it's real. Many RFD postal routes were given street names as population grew so that may be why you can't locate any info.

[8E45E]

Unless the owner stated on it is someone famous, or a celebrity of some sort, I can't think of any significant reason for someone to fake it.

 

Craig

[Bloo]

You guys did see this part of the original post, didn't you?

 

5 hours ago, yannsaunders@gmail.com said:

What is surprising (to say the least) is that the vehicle ID describers a 1937 Cadillac V16 convertible which, at the time (1955) was registered in Switzerland under lic. # VD19044.

 

 

[John348]

Yes it is very possible that it was registered in Switzerland. If you look at the paperwork closely, Mr Lockhart signed the seller portion of the transfer stub, so the ownership was transferred and he left it "open" and did not fill in the buyer. If the car went overseas that paperwork is only needed to load it for export and not needed for anything else 

[yannsaunders@gmail.com]

Thanks, all, for your replies and suggestions with regard to that "questionable" 1955 NY registration renewal stub. I have thoroughly researched  THAT particular automobile for the last 45 years. It is one of only 2 Cadillac V16s (out of a total of 50 units built in 1937) that were exported. This was a bare chassis (frame, motor, running gear and firewall) shipped by ocean freight and railcar to Lausanne, Switzerland, in August 1937. There it received a (huge) roadster body by Willy Hartmann of Lausanne.  It was licensed TWICE to the SAME owner (Philippe BARRAUD of Bussigny, near Lausanne): first in 1937 (VD 2264) then again (after WW2) in 1949 (VD 19044).

SO FAR AS I KNOW the car NEVER left Europe until 1985, when its FIFTH owner (P.A. Parviz of London) acquired it from the FOURTH one (well-known auto restorer, André LeCoq of Paris, France). Parviz sold it (under what conditions?) to the late Tom Barrett of Barrett-Jackson Auctioneers. My (wild?) theory is that someone (Parviz, Barrett?) used a "real" 1955 NY "registration renewal stub" in the name of one (hard-to-find) James Lockhart of no known physical address in Buffalo, NY), and simply added the description of a real V16 Cadillac, complete with a real serial number.  The question is:  WHY? 

Again, my (wild) theory is that one of the "American" owners  (NOT James Lockhart) needed an "official document" - for subsequent US registration purposes - that attested to the  car's earlier (original) "American" origin. Call me crazy, but in my  half-century as an amateur auto historian (member of SIA - The Society of Automobile Historians) of  I have witnessed some "untoward activities" surrounding the description, purchase and sale of some highly collectible cars.

What say the experts on this board?  Oh, BTW, the car in question has got a new owner since 2015-16. He too, I'm sure, would love to know more  about that "odd" NY registration renewal stub.  

[yannsaunders@gmail.com]

11 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

...In the year of your registration, 1955, the Cadillac V-16

was likely a collectible car, though not expensive, and

a model just coming into collectibility.  So it's not too

surprising that someone may have saved the registration

card.  It's a nice piece to have.

 

You could check old AACA rosters and see whether

there is a James Lockhart listed.  The AACA national

office, or AACA Library, could help you with that.

Does someone today keep track of serial numbers of all the

Cadillac V-16's?  That's another route to take.

.......................................................

I am the original creator/compiler of the "New Cadillac Database", a holding of the Museum & Research Center of the Cadillac & LaSalle Club, Inc. (https://www.newcadillacdatabase.org). One of the chapters included in the compendium addresses the Cadillac V16 (numbers built and all known survivors); that 1937 V16 roadster is well-known; a complete chapter is devoted to it. I am currently writing a revision, based on information gleaned in the last 3-4 years. It should be ready for publication in the next few weeks.  

[yannsaunders@gmail.com]

8 hours ago, 8E45E said:

Unless the owner stated on it is someone famous, or a celebrity of some sort, I can't think of any significant reason for someone to fake it.

 

Craig

How about if someone needed a "fake" stub to "prove" the car was once registered in the state of NY? I can see the "need" for such a document to allow a subsequent owner to register the vehicle in another state and thus to provide "evidence" of the car's US origin.  

[yannsaunders@gmail.com]

7 hours ago, John348 said:

Yes it is very possible that it was registered in Switzerland. If you look at the paperwork closely, Mr Lockhart signed the seller portion of the transfer stub, so the ownership was transferred and he left it "open" and did not fill in the buyer. If the car went overseas that paperwork is only needed to load it for export and not needed for anything else 

 

"... If the car went overseas that paperwork is only needed to load it for export and not needed for anything else."  In fact, the car WAS overseas from 1937 until (SO FAR AS I KNOW) 1985, when it was acquired in Paris, France, by an Iranian-American collector who subsequently sold it to Tom Barrett of the Barrett-Jackson auctioneers.

[mercer09]

That registration "acts" as a title in the state of NY. There were no other titles. But please realize, they were issued yearly, so the chance is that several more may exist.

 

nothing fake about it!

[Bloo]

Does everything about the car itself add up? Was it ever out of public sight for a long period of time?

 

The website for Erie County NY shows a James Lockhart owning a house in Buffalo NY and paying taxes on it. A few years earlier he (apparently) had another house for about a year that had been previously owned by yet another James Lockhart. (Maybe his father?) That second house belongs to someone else now.

 

Far less reliable Internet sources suggest the elder Mr. Lockhart is still living, and in his late 90s. There is also a posting on legacy.com, connected with a funeral home, implying that someone by that name died in about 2016, but there is no obituary  I''m guessing you already found all this, but I'm throwing it out there in case you didn't.

 

 

Edited October 21, 2018 by Bloo (see edit history)

[John348]

1 hour ago, yannsaunders@gmail.com said:

 

"... If the car went overseas that paperwork is only needed to load it for export and not needed for anything else."  In fact, the car WAS overseas from 1937 until (SO FAR AS I KNOW) 1985, when it was acquired in Paris, France, by an Iranian-American collector who subsequently sold it to Tom Barrett of the Barrett-Jackson auctioneers.

 

Well that NYS paperwork indicates something different, maybe the other information you have is incorrect? I thought historians too ALL the facts and made an fair honest evaluation? 

[yannsaunders@gmail.com]

2 minutes ago, John348 said:

 

Well that NYS paperwork indicates something different, maybe the other information you have is incorrect? I thought historians too ALL the facts and made an fair honest evaluation? 

This is getting more and more interesting. Thanks to all those who have got involved and are trying to helk me complete the story of this FABULOUS V16 Cadillac.

 

[yannsaunders@gmail.com]

1 hour ago, Bloo said:

Does everything about the car itself add up?

YES, the description of the vehicle is 100% accurate.

 

Was it ever out of public sight for a long period of time?

YES, that is indeed a possibilty; there is NO factual evidence of the car's effective whereabouts in the 14 years from 1949-50 to 1964.  HOWEVER: some time BEFORE 1964 the (severely damaged) car was in covered storage in a warehouse in Ouchy-Lausanne; then, in 1964 the owner (Philippe Barraud) was asked to move the car that was taking up needed storage space for the 1964 World Fair event ("Expo Suisse") that ran in Lausanne from Apr. 30 to Oct. 25, 1964.  SO,  from the spring of 1964 to the summer of 1969 the car sat in an open field on property owned by an acquaintance of Mr. Barraud. 

 

The website for Erie County NY shows a James Lockhart owning a house in Buffalo NY and paying taxes on it. 

THAT is very interesting information, Bloo.

 

A few years earlier he (apparently) had another house for about a year that had been previously owned by yet another James Lockhart. (Maybe his father?) That second house belongs to someone else now.

Thank you, Bloo, for your excellent research; we are making now some progress.

 

Far less reliable Internet sources suggest the elder Mr. Lockhart is still living, and in his late 90s. There is also a posting on legacy.com, connected with a funeral home, implying that someone by that name died in about 2016, but there is no obituary. I''m guessing you already found all this, but I'm throwing it out there in case you didn't.

NO, I did not have any information such as you have provided, Bloo. This is GOOD news in that it seems to  prove that one James Lockhart DID effectively reside at one time in Buffalo, NY.  Unfortunately, the "questionable" renewal stub only "suggests" (?)  that, in 1955 and earlier, a James Lockhart of Buffalo, NY, effectively owned, registered and operated  in the State of NY the UNIQUE 1937 V16 convertible described on that renewal stub.  This could mean only TWO things: (1) some time BEFORE 1955, James Lockhart acquired the V16 Cadillac from Philippe Barraud (or a third party); (2) some time AFTER 1955 James sold it back to Philippe Barraud who continued to own it (in a severely damaged condition) until April 1969, when it was acquired by the 2nd (?) owner, Jean-Jacques Belet of Lausanne, Switzerland. 

 

1 hour ago, Bloo said:

 

 

 

 

[yannsaunders@gmail.com]

3 minutes ago, yannsaunders@gmail.com said:

 

 

 

This photo of the damaged V16 Cadillac was taken in the summer of 1968 by Jean-Jacques Belet of Lausanne, Switzerland. It had sat here, in the open, for about 5 years.
Before that, it had been in covered storage in Ouchy-Lausanne for an undetermined number of years. It had last been registered in Switzerland in 1949. 

[alsancle]

Interesting thread.  Obviously a great car, but the Figoni and Falaschi look didn't quite work on the huge chassis.    Still spectacular.

Edited October 21, 2018 by alsancle (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

Yann, the $12 fee is not enough to renew a 5000 pound car unless there were some special circumstances, doesn't look like any note of one.

 

Buffalo is known as a city where handcuffs never get dusty from sitting around. You could have stumbled on an old shady deal. Do some double checking on your document's origin.

Bernie

 

 

[John348]

If he were alive today, and if he bought the car when he was a an early teenager he would be about 95 years old remember something from 1937????? maybe maybe yes  At 61 I have trouble remembering to pull my zipper up. Good luck with your search 

[Walt G]

Al, re the coachwork not working well on the long chassis, if you removed the "cow catcher" train type front bumper the car would look entirely different, also if it were painted a dark color and used the chrome trim as an accent it would enhance the lines/styling. Remove the lights at the top of the front fenders as well. More isn't necessarily better when it comes to car styling. those lights may have been added later so the driver could tell where the fender was in relation to the wheels below and how much overhang he had in the front to deal with when driving.

[8E45E]

On ‎10‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 5:52 AM, yannsaunders@gmail.com said:

How about if someone needed a "fake" stub to "prove" the car was once registered in the state of NY? I can see the "need" for such a document to allow a subsequent owner to register the vehicle in another state and thus to provide "evidence" of the car's US origin.  

The owner could have also had a residence in New York besides overseas and probably could have registered it there if that being the case.  I could see an owner of a car like that having more than one residence!!

 

And no, I did not see the original post.

 

Craig

[yannsaunders@gmail.com]

2 hours ago, 8E45E said:

I could see an owner of a car like that having more than one residence!!

 

I agree with your thinking, Craig, Philippe was one "rich dude" ... but he was not known to be a world traveler, especially NOT with his 1937 Cadillac. I met and talked to his daughter (Roxane) and favorite nephew (Daniel) in Switzerland. They agreed with me in thinking the Cadillac never left the Lausanne area (which has half the population of Buffalo, NY) until it was sold in 1969 and restored a first time while still in Lausanne. Following that restoration the car did one known excursion trip to the Swiss mountain resort of Zermatt. 

 

 

[1935Packard]

Yann,  if it's helpful to you, I have an original and authentic 1951 New York Passenger Vehicle Registration Renewal Stub for another big Cadillac -- a 1931 Cadillac 370a coupe --  that I would be happy to scan for you if you think the comparison with that and your '55 one might help indicate originality.  Just DM me.

[yannsaunders@gmail.com]

1 minute ago, 1935Packard said:

Yann,  if it's helpful to you, I have an original and authentic 1951 New York Passenger Vehicle Registration Renewal Stub for another big Cadillac -- a 1931 Cadillac 370a coupe --  that I would be happy to scan for you if you think the comparison with that and your '55 one might help indicate originality.  Just DM me.

 

Thanks for your kind offer. Yes, I would like to see a copy of the document in question, merely for the sake of comparison between your AUTHENTIC renewal stub and the one which - based on known facts about the vehicle - I tend to consider as  "not totally authentic".

Not sure what you mean by Just DM me. Is there a way to communicate with you by private eMail? Mine is yannsaunders[at]gmail[dot]com

[mercer09]

There is no reason for that NY registration to not be authentic. Everything looks fine with exception to the low fee, as Bernie already mentioned.

Maybe it isnt 12 dollars, but 62 dollars? I dont know, as the fee should be around 25. for a full year and it is dated for January and doesnt mention being partial, which NY sometimes did. I have hundreds of those registrations here and that one is quite legit.

What would be the purpose of a forgery?

[yannsaunders@gmail.com]

What would be the purpose of a forgery?

 

As I may have mentioned earlier, this vehicle was acquired in the fall of 1985 by Tom Barrett of Barrett-Jackson auctioneers. The vendor was an Iranian-American car collector/dealer (P.A. Parviz) who had bought the unique V-16 in Paris, France, "from under the nose" of Don Williams, owner of the Blackhawk Museum in Danville, CA.

Is it possible that a "fake" transaction took place between Barrett and Lockhart (whose residence in Buffalo, NY, in 1955, seems to have been authenticated by others on this site)? Could this have been a subtle way to have the car previously registered in the USA (NY state) simply to avoid paying taxes or import duties in Arizona? I'm only guessing because I don't see any proof (other than the "questionable" renewal stub) or other reason for the car to have come from and gone back to Lausanne between 1955 and 1959.   

The car's history is fully documented from 1937 up to 1949-50, and again from spring 1964 up to the present time.  Its history for the 14 years from 1950 through 1964 are NOT known ... so anything is possible. I grant you, therefore, that Philippe B. (the first owner) could very well have sold the car to a buyer in the USA. However, the fact that it was found in a dilapidated state, in a Swiss warehouse in 1964 suggests it may have been stored there for 5 years or more. Philippe certainly never used it in a dilapidated state.

Assuming for a moment that the car effectively made its way to the USA (and specifically to Buffalo, NY), why would the assumed  US owner (Mr. Lockhart) have returned it to Lausanne, Switzerland (around 1951-1959); and why was such a rare car never seen or heard of again in collector circles  (either in the USA or in Switzerland) until it turned up in a "pitiful" state in the Ouchy warehouse in 1964?

 

Am I missing something?

 

     

[1935Packard]

1 hour ago, yannsaunders@gmail.com said:

 

Thanks for your kind offer. Yes, I would like to see a copy of the document in question, merely for the sake of comparison between your AUTHENTIC renewal stub and the one which - based on known facts about the vehicle - I tend to consider as  "not totally authentic".

Not sure what you mean by Just DM me. Is there a way to communicate with you by private eMail? Mine is yannsaunders[at]gmail[dot]com

 

Sorry, "DM" meaning "direct message," a service on the forum.  But I'll e-mail you a scan tonight.   The car was owned by my grandfather in 1951 and I've had the '51 renewal stub since the 80s,  taken from my grandfather's files, so there is no question about its authenticity.

 

Also, just off the top of my head, I think my 1951 renewal stub also listed the weight of the 1931 Cadillac 370a as 5000 pounds, and I think the fee was also 12 dollars.   

Been a while since I looked at it, though.  I'll check and scan you a copy tonight and e-mail it to you.

Edited October 22, 2018 by 1935Packard (see edit history)

[Bloo]

I gather that the numbers (all of them) DO match the car in the pictures as it exists today? Is that correct?

 

Something obviously isn't right. I'm glad Mercer09 dropped in this thread, because I had an idea he may have seen paper like that before. Avoiding import taxes never occurred to me, though I suppose it should have. As a Washingtonian I am no stranger to unsolvable title problems, even more so in that era.

 

It looks like there are really only 3 options

 

1) The registration is a well done forgery

2) The car itself has been altered somehow (parts of Mr Lockhart's car used in a restoration). If the numbers today match records from the 1930s, this seems unlikely.

3) The car was really in Buffalo in the possession of Mr. Lockhart in 1955.

 

Noting that the registration is signed on the back by Mr. Lockhart, and reading the fine print, it appears that he releases interest, in other words he sold it in the year 1955. If he had not done so, he would have got a new piece of paper like this for 1956, and would have had to sign the new one if he had sold the car in 1956. Is that pretty much correct?

 

What would have happened in NY if Mr. Lockhart had simply let the registration lapse? Lets say, for the sake of argument, that the car had a major mechanical fault (froze in a Buffalo winter or something). Lets say Mr Lockhart did not register it for a year, or two, or seven, or even ten. How would he prove ownership if he intended to re-register it? Would the expired 1955 document serve that purpose? What if Mr. Lockhart sold it several years later, having not repaired it? Could he simply sign the expired 1955 document to release interest ? Would that be sufficient for the new owner to register the car in NY?

 

Title (and registration) laws vary wildly from state to state, and did then as well. I can tell you that if Mr. Lockhart's (hypothetical) buyer had transferred the car to Washington State, Washington would have KEPT all the old ownership papers rather than leaving them with the new owner.

 

An interesting question to ask is what were the policies (between 1985 and now) of the state(s) where it was registered (and/or titled) in the US, after being shipped here in 1985.

 

The fact the the signed release from 1955 is still with the car is a huge red flag to me. Of course there were 48 states (and some territories) in 1955, with wildly different policies, and I am mainly familiar with Washington. The existence of that signed document may be a red herring.

 

 

 

[Bloo]

9 hours ago, yannsaunders@gmail.com said:

Lockhart (whose residence in Buffalo, NY, in 1955, seems to have been authenticated by others on this site)?

 

Not exactly. It seems that there is a James Lockhart living there NOW (not 1955). It also appears that there is a second James Lockhart living there NOW, if he is still living, and I can find nothing reliable to indicate otherwise. The second Mr. Lockhart would be in his 90s.

 

It also appears that the the second Mr. Lockhart did also have a house in Buffalo, which was apparently transfered to the younger one, who had it for a year and then apparently sold it. This is all fairly recent.

 

A trip to the Erie County courthouse might clear up which (if any) Mr Lockhart owned property in Buffalo in 1955. That won't help if he was renting. A library in Erie County might have old Buffalo phone books. Census records might be another angle? 1940 is the newest that has been released. If there is a historical society in Erie County you might be able to find out where the RFD went.

 

I know my earlier post was confusing, but I was trying to keep it factual, and keep the reliable information (Erie County) separate from other information that may be absolute rubbish.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2018 by Bloo (see edit history)

[Bloo]

On 10/21/2018 at 8:09 AM, John348 said:

If he were alive today, and if he bought the car when he was a an early teenager he would be about 95 years old remember something from 1937????? maybe maybe yes  At 61 I have trouble remembering to pull my zipper up. Good luck with your search 

 

I doubt anyone would soon forget owning a v-16 Cadillac, especially one that looks like that.

 

Mr Lockhart would need only to remember 1955, when he apparently sold the car. Someone else owned it in 1937. Admittedly, many folks in their 90s can't remember much, but others are still sharp as tacks.

[1935Packard]

Here's what I have, a 1951 New York Registration -- not called a "Registration Renewal Stub," but looks to be the same in substance. Motor Vehicle Form 254-A.  Interesting that it's hand-written and not typed up.   4 years earlier, but similar.  Here's the front and back:

 

 

Edited October 23, 2018 by 1935Packard (see edit history)

[John348]

This thread could be the sequel to that great mystery AACA thread about Karr Rubber Manufacturing, no joke that was one of the most interesting reads ever on this site, we could use another one like that, This one has potential, and like that thread it was slow to build but once it got going I could not wait for the next post 

 

http://forums.aaca.org/topic/289785-karr-rubber-manufacturing-california/

[Bloo]

1 hour ago, 1935Packard said:

Here's what I have, a 1951 New York Registration -- not called a "Registration Renewal Stub," but looks to be the same in substance. Motor Vehicle Form 254-A.  Interesting that it's hand-written and not typed up.   4 years earlier, but similar.  Here's the front and back:

 

Yours is also signed on the back, and you still have it, so that must be a normal thing after all. I guess the redacted part on the back is the person he sold it to?

 

I wonder how the new owner was able to register it since you still have the slip? Did NY not require a person to prove ownership to register a car?

[1935Packard]

41 minutes ago, Bloo said:

 

Yours is also signed on the back, and you still have it, so that must be a normal thing after all. I guess the redacted part on the back is the person he sold it to?

 

I wonder how the new owner was able to register it since you still have the slip? Did NY not require a person to prove ownership to register a car?

 

It's a long story, best told over a beer.  But the short version is that the title was signed over but never actually submitted to the DMV, and then the car was given away (mostly in boxes) without the title or even the awareness of the person who had the titled signed over to him.  I don't know what's happened to the car, although I've looked.  

[Bloo]

On 10/21/2018 at 7:36 AM, yannsaunders@gmail.com said:

YES, that is indeed a possibilty; there is NO factual evidence of the car's effective whereabouts in the 14 years from 1949-50 to 1964.  HOWEVER: some time BEFORE 1964 the (severely damaged) car was in covered storage in a warehouse in Ouchy-Lausanne; then, in 1964 the owner (Philippe Barraud) was asked to move the car that was taking up needed storage space for the 1964 World Fair event ("Expo Suisse") that ran in Lausanne from Apr. 30 to Oct. 25, 1964.  SO,  from the spring of 1964 to the summer of 1969 the car sat in an open field on property owned by an acquaintance of Mr. Barraud. 

 

In what way was the car severely damaged before 1964? The 1968 photo shows a car that looks rather weathered, consistent with sitting outside for 5 years, but what damage existed before that?

 

Do you know when and how it got the extra headlights shown in the 1968 photo? I notice they are gone in the post-restoration Zermatt trip photos. That looks like the sort of thing one might have had to do to get it licensed in the US. Some states had minimum height restrictions on headlights.

[yannsaunders@gmail.com]

11 hours ago, 1935Packard said:

 I'll check and scan you a copy tonight and e-mail it to you.

 Much appreciated, thanks.

One question:

Would not the owner of the car have to  present the car to the licensing authorities "in person", to guarantee its physical existence?

[yannsaunders@gmail.com]

2 hours ago, Bloo said:

 

In what way was the car severely damaged before 1964? The 1968 photo shows a car that looks rather weathered, consistent with sitting outside for 5 years, but what damage existed before that?

I believe the car suffered a frontal collision that partly destroyed the front ensemble. This was not a first for Philippe, as attested by the attached photo of the severely damaged (custom-built) LaSalle convertible coupe he owned and drove before acquiring the V16.

 

Do you know when and how it got the extra headlights shown in the 1968 photo? I notice they are gone in the post-restoration Zermatt trip photos. 

I don't have the answer. I guess these were added by a local repair-shop some time after the collision happened (in the attached photos, compare the 1937 front ensemble with the damaged one). A second (B&W) photo I have on file shows the damaged car a few weeks/months later; the replacement road lights are gone but the lateral stanchions remain); the interior has been taken over by the undergrowth (2nd B&W photo)! BTW, using Google Maps (this year), I found the precise spot where the V16 had sat in a field in the early to mid-60s (aerial Google photo).

The 1955 renewal stub pics just don't add up. Why are there NO photos of this "monster" when it (apparently) resided in NY State, or when it got a new owner in that era? 

 

[yannsaunders@gmail.com]

11 hours ago, Bloo said:

I gather that the numbers (all of them) DO match the car in the pictures as it exists today? Is that correct?

That is 100% correct

 

Something obviously isn't right.

You're telling me!

 

It looks like there are really only 3 options

This one seems the most likely: 1) The registration is a well done forgery

 

Noting that the registration is signed on the back by Mr. Lockhart, and reading the fine print, it appears that he releases interest, in other words he sold it in the year 1955. If he had not done so, he would have got a new piece of paper like this for 1956, and would have had to sign the new one if he had sold the car in 1956. Is that pretty much correct?

I'm unable to say "yes" or "no"-

 

What would have happened in NY if Mr. Lockhart had simply let the registration lapse? Lets say, for the sake of argument, that the car had a major mechanical fault (froze in a Buffalo winter or something). Lets say Mr Lockhart did not register it for a year, or two, or seven, or even ten. How would he prove ownership if he intended to re-register it? Would the expired 1955 document serve that purpose? What if Mr. Lockhart sold it several years later, having not repaired it? Could he simply sign the expired 1955 document to release interest ? Would that be sufficient for the new owner to register the car in NY?

Once again I don't have answer to those questions.

 

An interesting question to ask is what were the policies (between 1985 and now) of the state(s) where it was registered (and/or titled) in the US, after being shipped here in 1985.

Perhaps anwers might be found among documents relating to the V16 and held by the late Tomn Barrett; but I'm about to stir a potential hornet's nest!

 

The existence of that signed document may be a red herring.

Let's all keep looking. We'll get to the bottom of this.

 

 

 

 

[Bloo]

I found an obituary for the older of the two Mr. Lockharts of Buffalo, and another for a woman who may have been his wife. Both died in 2016. The younger Mr Lockhart is likely alive and well, but probably too young to know anything about this firsthand.

 

Of course we have no idea if this Mr Lockhart is the Lockhart on the document, or if Lockhart on the document even existed. I guess that was a dead end.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Bloo (see edit history)

[yannsaunders@gmail.com]

5 hours ago, 1935Packard said:

Here's what I have, a 1951 New York Registration -- not called a "Registration Renewal Stub," but looks to be the same in substance. Motor Vehicle Form 254-A.  Interesting that it's hand-written and not typed up.   4 years earlier, but similar.  Here's the front and back:

 

Thanks for your rapid reply. The forms do seem to match in the raw but not in substance. The "stamp" at upper left seems authentic enough. Could not the number on the recto  (H3721) and the date of issue (Jan 22, 1955) lead to any earlier or later renewal stubs?

The plot thickens!

5 hours ago, 1935Packard said: