30DodgePanel Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 (edited) Can anyone tell me the name of the Dodge Brother fonts that were used ? Looking for these two Edited September 9, 2018 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsmoke Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 IMHO, these are a special pattern designed exclusively for this purpose and you will not find an alphabetic set to match them. Most car makers had their design departments create crests, including lettering using hand drawn sketches, long before "fonts" became popular. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30DodgePanel Posted September 9, 2018 Author Share Posted September 9, 2018 I guess it could be a custom make but I highly doubt the actual font the Dodge Brothers art department used was original but I could be wrong.... after all, fonts have been popular for centuries. The layout of the font however is rare. Not really concerned about the layout or the pattern design just the name of the fonts. Thousands of books on fonts over the years... someone out there has to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.White Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 (edited) The unique feature of the older DODGE BROTHERS font must surely be the capital letter 'E'. The middle bar extends beyond the upper and lower bars. I can't find this anywhere so perhaps it is a design unique to Dodge Brothers.? Ray. Edited September 9, 2018 by R.White (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, R.White said: The unique feature of the older DODGE BROTHERS font must surely be the capital letter 'E'. The middle bar extends beyond the upper and lower bars. I can't find this anywhere so perhaps it is a design unique to Dodge Brothers.? Ray. I have researched this topic before and I have come to the conclusion that the Dodge Brothers company designed their own fonts. Of course, I am always willing to learn more about the topic. Edited September 9, 2018 by keiser31 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.White Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 ^^^Spot the odd one out on that sign.....^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylormade Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 2 hours ago, 30DodgePanel said: I guess it could be a custom make but I highly doubt the actual font the Dodge Brothers art department used was original but I could be wrong.... after all, fonts have been popular for centuries. The layout of the font however is rare. Not really concerned about the layout or the pattern design just the name of the fonts. Thousands of books on fonts over the years... someone out there has to know. While it’s true that complete alphabetic fonts have been designed and named over the years, we have to remember that the computer age has redefined the use of fonts. Just because you can plug in a myriad of professionally designed fonts into graphic programs and spit out the look you want, today, that didn’t and couldn’t happen back in the day. For printing, typeface In required fonts could be attained, but the actual design and rendering of the font style was done by graphic artists - by hand. Many artists slightly modified the font to match what their clients desired and what fit the piece they were designing. The two examples you provided on the hubcaps are actually two different fonts. They are similar, but notice that in the top example, the thickness of the letter’s parts remains constant. In the second example, the rounded areas of the letter bulge along the curves and vary in thickness. The only way to reproduce this accurately is to photograph the letters from straight on, with as little distortion as possible, then recreate it in Adobe Illustrator or another similar graphics program. There is no magic wand for this situation. A while ago I did a high resolution recreation of the DODGE BROTHERS APPROVED SERVICE STATION SIGN in Illustrator. I used a photo of an original sign. I had to take the distortion out of the photo before I could even start. After that, I quickly determined that the font used on the sign was not available in digital form. I had to basically trace each letter on the sign to create the type. I quickly discovered that the original artwork for the sign was hand lettered, as each matching letter varied in size, sometimes by quite a bit. I realized that making one “E” and then using it wherever one was required didn’t work. The lettering looked too regular and even, and the sign just looked wrong. If you need artwork for one of these logos, PM me and maybe I can help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 I also have recreated Dodge Brothers fontwork, as Taylormade says, on the Canadian Dodge Brothers body tag (mounts high on the firewall RHS). I did it in Inkscape. You need a vector graphics program, like Inkscape or Illustrator. A CAD program would work too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30DodgePanel Posted September 9, 2018 Author Share Posted September 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Taylormade said: While it’s true that complete alphabetic fonts have been designed and named over the years, we have to remember that the computer age has redefined the use of fonts. Just because you can plug in a myriad of professionally designed fonts into graphic programs and spit out the look you want, today, that didn’t and couldn’t happen back in the day. For printing, typeface In required fonts could be attained, but the actual design and rendering of the font style was done by graphic artists - by hand. Many artists slightly modified the font to match what their clients desired and what fit the piece they were designing. First, I'm not looking for anything that has been redefined by the use of a computer so I'm not trying to match anything in a computer database, just trying to find the historically correct name for the style of each. Not ruling out the fact that they may or may not be a font or lettering style that was ever used in past literature throughout history. With so many variations and names for lettering over the centuries I think anyone that assumes Dodge Brothers lettering is unique exclusively could be incorrect. I'm open to these being a pre-existing lettering format that was used regularly until proven otherwise (that is of course if someone brings forth evidence that Dodge or Chrysler has factory literature that proves otherwise). The two examples you provided on the hubcaps are actually two different fonts. Fully aware, that's why I asked as a suffix (IE fonts). Not trying to be a smart a/# , just letting you know I am fully aware. They are similar, but notice that in the top example, the thickness of the letter’s parts remains constant. In the second example, the rounded areas of the letter bulge along the curves and vary in thickness. The only way to reproduce this accurately is to photograph the letters from straight on, with as little distortion as possible, then recreate it in Adobe Illustrator or another similar graphics program. There is no magic wand for this situation. Still doesn't rule out IF these were fonts used in antiquity. Again, I realize that type of artwork may be my only alternative in the end but for now I'm just asking if anyone recognizes the fonts. A while ago I did a high resolution recreation of the DODGE BROTHERS APPROVED SERVICE STATION SIGN in Illustrator. I used a photo of an original sign. I had to take the distortion out of the photo before I could even start. After that, I quickly determined that the font used on the sign was not available in digital form. I had to basically trace each letter on the sign to create the type. I quickly discovered that the original artwork for the sign was hand lettered, as each matching letter varied in size, sometimes by quite a bit. I realized that making one “E” and then using it wherever one was required didn’t work. The lettering looked too regular and even, and the sign just looked wrong. If you need artwork for one of these logos, PM me and maybe I can help. Not concerned about the font used in the Approved Service Station Signs, I realize those are lettering designs that were "modified" to suit the interest of the sales teams or who ever they were trying to please. The E is the dead give away to this fact. However, the rest of the lettering does have a lettering foundation that is named. Finding the name of that font and match is not impossible although I've never researched that font personally. Thanks for your offer to help with the design but I'm comfortable with submitting any artwork I need. I really appreciate your offer though. Thanks for your input Taylormade, very valid points to be considered. I'm guessing I may have success finding more clues via other avenues like these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/ULTIMATE-CALLIGRAPHY-PENMANSHIP-TYPOGRAPHY-COLLECTION-HUGE-190-BOOKS-on-DVD/332683449578?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Leech Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 3 hours ago, Spinneyhill said: I also have recreated Dodge Brothers fontwork, as Taylormade says, on the Canadian Dodge Brothers body tag (mounts high on the firewall RHS). I did it in Inkscape. You need a vector graphics program, like Inkscape or Illustrator. A CAD program would work too. Not to hijack this thread, but were you able to make a metal body tag? I could really use a reproduction Toronto Canada bodu tag so I don't need to pull up my flooring should someone need to see it. Also, mine is very degraded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 I find the DB font to be quite interesting. The Amelia font, as used by the Beatles is also a favorite of mine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 2 hours ago, David_Leech said: Not to hijack this thread, but were you able to make a metal body tag? I could really use a reproduction Toronto Canada bodu tag so I don't need to pull up my flooring should someone need to see it. Also, mine is very degraded. Yes. It is photo etched on 0.5 (or so) mm stainless, brush finish. But it is Windsor, Ontario, not Toronto, sorry. I also did the Canadian Delco-Remy generator and starter label the same way but etched on aluminium. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, 30DodgePanel said: just trying to find the historically correct name for the style of each. I spent a bit of time looking for the Dodge Brothers fonts, without success. I would expect they would be unnamed if designed by Dodge Brothers. Edited September 10, 2018 by Spinneyhill (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylormade Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Fonts were originally named for the type that typesetters designed for printing. Often the font was named for its creator. For a few centuries, there were only a few hundred different recognized fonts in existence as each font had to have patterns made and then be made into lead type face. There are thousands of fonts today, as artists can churn them out on a graphics program, name them anything they want and post them for sale. The letters on the hubcaps and the lettering on the sign are not some guy looking up a specific font and then copying it, they are unique creations designed and executed by a graphic artist or designer out of whole cloth. With the number of fonts available, you can probably find something close, but I have lots of experience with this and I always find that close is not close enough. I found a very similar font when I was doing the service sign, but the E wasn’t right, the R didn’t have the little tail, everything was just bit more rounded, and it just didn’t look the same. I always end up creating what I’m looking for with anything done decades ago. It’s like looking at a letter with my handwriting and then trying to find the font I used. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ply33 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 9 hours ago, Taylormade said: Fonts were originally named for the type that typesetters designed for printing. Often the font was named for its creator. For a few centuries, there were only a few hundred different recognized fonts in existence as each font had to have patterns made and then be made into lead type face. There are thousands of fonts today, as artists can churn them out on a graphics program, name them anything they want and post them for sale. The letters on the hubcaps and the lettering on the sign are not some guy looking up a specific font and then copying it, they are unique creations designed and executed by a graphic artist or designer out of whole cloth. With the number of fonts available, you can probably find something close, but I have lots of experience with this and I always find that close is not close enough. I found a very similar font when I was doing the service sign, but the E wasn’t right, the R didn’t have the little tail, everything was just bit more rounded, and it just didn’t look the same. I always end up creating what I’m looking for with anything done decades ago. It’s like looking at a letter with my handwriting and then trying to find the font I used. +1 to this! Even into the late 1930s a lot of print advertising lettering was all done by hand even if it looked typeset. The artist might be modeling the letter forms on a cast hot metal font or have been inspired by one, but the actual "type" was often hand drawn. I think that pretty much went away by the 1940s for body text but suspect that headline text was often hand drawn even into the 1960s. Unfortunately, I've lost track of where I read about all this even though I still have vivid memories of a photo sequence showing the progression from designer's conception through printed ad that included showing the hand lettering in various stages of completion. Based on that graphic design environment it would surprise me if the lettering or logos on very many makes of cars would have been from an "off the shelf" type style. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30DodgePanel Posted September 15, 2018 Author Share Posted September 15, 2018 (edited) After looking through hundreds of lettering styles on discs, books, internet … I'm shocked at the science and the true lost art of the lettering that writers used. I can't help but think with a much less multitasking way of life back then writers could afford to spend godless hours perfecting the skills.. My opinion is I think the first DB hubcap logo has the feel of the renaissance period lettering. Bologna Roman inscribed perhaps but the tilt on the upper and lower left are a criteria that I haven't found yet which may prove to be the art departments twist on things as mentioned. Artwork is probably the simplest and quickest way to end this pain lol... just hard to give in knowing I may be a page or two from the answer. My curiosity is getting the best of me for sure. Thanks guys Edited September 15, 2018 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 4 hours ago, 30DodgePanel said: just hard to give in knowing I may be a page or two from the answer Been there! I spent many hours looking at typefaces to no avail. Maybe more '20s-'30s Art Deco typefaces are available now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30DodgePanel Posted September 15, 2018 Author Share Posted September 15, 2018 On 9/9/2018 at 10:13 PM, Taylormade said: I always find that close is not close enough. Man that is so true ✍️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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