Summershandy Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 I changed out my kingpins on the '54 Pontiac thinking this was part of the tire wiggle the mechanic picked up on last year. I wanted to do them anyway. I finished them and the new brake job, put everything back together and still had a slight up and down wiggle. I'm only familiar with the newer style tapered roller bearings. Tighten down the nut then turn back to the nearest cotter pin hole. Been doing it like that since a young buck. I did the same with the older ball bearing style bearing and found that wiggle again. I was disheartened thinking the kingpin was still sloppy but remember reading not to mistake a loose wheel hub as a failing king pin. So I tightened the nut to the next cotter pin hole. The 2 holes are at 11 and 1 o'clock. The wiggle is gone now but from my experience with newer bearings, this seems a little too tight. It's not tight tight but snug. Any worries here? Is that the norm for these old cars? Thanks for any input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 Better snug than sloppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 The rule of thumb is tighten until a drag is felt and back off the nut one castellation. If the present nut won't allow that fine an adjustment grind more slots in it with a cutoff wheel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 If they are like the ball bearings in a Chev they have to be adjusted loose, 1/32" movement at the tire if I recall correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp928 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 I had a car once which specified .003" end float for tapered roller front hubs, and provided a 52 point vernier adjustment on the hub nut/washer. Tapered rollers do NOT like to run end loaded when up to temperature. In this they are very different from ball bearings. Who invented the roller bearing, and why? jp 26 Rover 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Og the cave man invented the roller bearing for moving giant stones. While dragging a wooden sledge he threw some lengths of tree trunks under the runners and it rolled a lot easier. New Departure made patent roller bearings from about 1900, I don't know if they were the first or if their patent was an improvement over existing designs. Oldest ball bearing I know of was on the rudder post of the Great Eastern in the early 1850s. It used cannon balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summershandy Posted April 3, 2018 Author Share Posted April 3, 2018 OK I found something other than using a torque wrench: "Tighten bearing adjusting nut with an 8" to 10" wrench using only arm and shoulder strength and only enough to ensure that parts are properly seated. Back off nut until first perceptible looseness is felt in bearing when tested by grasping tire at top and bottom and shaking. Tighten nut until a slot of nut lines up with with one of the cotter pin holes in knuckle." They also recommend eliminating king pin play by inserting a wooden wedge between knuckle and yoke. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeke01 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Sometimes using a thin washer will get you to that sweet slot spot. Zeke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 Ball bearings? I am pretty sure they ran with a little preload didn't they? Tapered roller bearings are the ones that required a bit of slop. No slop here... http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/manuals/1952sbb/52bb12.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 My understanding is ball bearings run with a little bit of clearance and tapered roller bearings can be slightly or more preloaded. I know that the tapered roller bearings in differentials/ rear ends are all pre-loaded. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curti Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 Yes Larry, you are correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summershandy Posted April 4, 2018 Author Share Posted April 4, 2018 Thanks for the thoughts gang! The bearings and kingpins feel great now along with it's owner. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, Larry Schramm said: My understanding is ball bearings run with a little bit of clearance and tapered roller bearings can be slightly or more preloaded. I know that the tapered roller bearings in differentials/ rear ends are all pre-loaded. IIRC Timken's literature always called for some slop in a tapered roller bearing. I know they often aren't run that way. New Departures own ball bearing literature (posted above) has you tightening the spindle to 45-55 inch pounds and leaving it there if the pin would go in, loosening slightly if the pin wont go in. I don't have an old GM spindle handy to try, but that procedure sounds to me like it will result in preload no matter what. Back in the drum brake days I was taught to tighten the (timken tapered roller) bearing while turning the wheel and then back off until the "click". The click wasn't actually a click, but a change in friction of the threads as you backed the nut off. It is really obvious when the wrench is in your hand, but harder to explain here. This results in a tiny bit of slop. When disc brakes came along, suddenly the (timken tapered roller) bearings needed to be run with preload, or there would be too much pad knockback and the brake pedal would be low. I am really not trying to argue in favor of tight ball bearings, or convince everyone that I am right (maybe I am not). I have some ball bearings to repack, and I would like to get to the bottom of this. Edited April 4, 2018 by Bloo (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 Tapered roller bearings at rear wheels have a small end float specified - no more than 0.005", usually ca 0.002-0.003". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poci1957 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) 22 hours ago, Bloo said: New Departures own ball bearing literature (posted above) has you tightening the spindle to 45-55 inch pounds and leaving it there if the pin would go in, loosening slightly if the pin wont go in. I don't have an old GM spindle handy to try, but that procedure sounds to me like it will result in preload no matter what. I am really not trying to argue in favor of tight ball bearings, or convince everyone that I am right (maybe I am not). I have some ball bearings to repack, and I would like to get to the bottom of this. Hello Bloo and Summershady, the 1957 Pontiac service manual (still using New Departure ball bearings) says exactly the same procedure as your service bulletin above. NOTE that the bulletin says to first seat the bearings at 200 in lbs (about 17 ft lbs) before backing off and resetting to 45-50 in lbs (about 4 ft lbs). It does not specifically say but I would be slowly turning the wheel while doing this procedure. PS--to Summershady, sounds like you do not have a torque wrench, I would recommend getting one. The Pontiac service manual has a torque spec for everything and double checking my own work I have found lots of times I was not as close as I thought. Edited April 5, 2018 by poci1957 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 On 4/3/2018 at 12:31 PM, Summershandy said: "Tighten bearing adjusting nut with an 8" to 10" wrench using only arm and shoulder strength and only enough to ensure that parts are properly seated. Back off nut until first perceptible looseness is felt in bearing when tested by grasping tire at top and bottom and shaking. Tighten nut until a slot of nut lines up with with one of the cotter pin holes in knuckle." I have always adjusted my wheel bearings this way, once every year when I repacked them. I learned this from my Grandfather who drove the car for the first 29 years. The original bearings will have lasted 88 years and 500,000+ miles on June 6th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summershandy Posted April 15, 2018 Author Share Posted April 15, 2018 On 4/5/2018 at 1:52 PM, poci1957 said: PS--to Summershady, sounds like you do not have a torque wrench, I would recommend getting one Never owned one but used one once in highschool. Been wrenchin' for close to 40 years. I AM a human torque wrench! Maybe one day I will get one to "calibrate" myself. LOL but you are correct, there are many torque specs. Thanks Todd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp928 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Roller bearings have been credited to John Harrison of longitude fame in the 1720-40 period. Some appear in his clocks from then. One of his clocks in a stable turret was installed in 1720 , and is STILL running, with ONE service. jp 26 Rover 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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