58L-Y8 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 6 hours ago, West Peterson said: The sweep-panel looks very odd on the car, too. I'm going to assume that it was added at the same time as all the chrome oozing up the rear fender??? Another victim of the Figoni et Falaschi school of chrome accent slather... 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 3 hours ago, 58L-Y8 said: Another victim of the Figoni et Falaschi school of chrome accent slather... For the newcomers, F&F is also known in some circles as "Phony & Flashy"....... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 On 12/27/2023 at 2:26 AM, Keith Ward said: In reply to the question about the LHD Phantoms being a better platform than a RHD car. When introduced the AJS chassis had many characteristics that were considered essential to sell in the American market but were not included on the original 1929 UK specification, things like (but not limited to) comprehensive one shot chassis lubrication (I think)... The American PIs also had the Bijur one-shot oilers. I wish they didn't...when the little felts get clogged (as is usually the case with an old car) they are a major headache to fix. I think most owners never pay attention to that and as a result the chassis lubrication suffers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadee Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Estimate : 160 - 240 k€ Hammer : 140 k€ Artcurial Paris 2024 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalbender Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 not all of us ignore the bijur system, regular use helps keep the oil flowing. yes, drips on the garage floor are part of the price, but at least you know which ones may need attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) Jay needs to learn how to shift a PII......too much clashing...........he's spinning it too fast before he shifts......... Edited February 6 by edinmass (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 (edited) 10 minutes ago, edinmass said: Jay needs to learn how to shift a PII......too much clashing...........he's spinning it too fast before he shifts......... In fairness to Jay, it takes some practice. If you are shifting that high you need to double clutch, or go early and often. I find my Stearns is easier to shift. Edited February 6 by alsancle (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Ward Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 Cameron needs to get a decent mechanic if if takes "football pitches to stop" a Phantom II, if the brakes and servo are set properly a Phantom II will stop on a pin 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 9 Author Share Posted February 9 57 minutes ago, Keith Ward said: Cameron needs to get a decent mechanic if if takes "football pitches to stop" a Phantom II, if the brakes and servo are set properly a Phantom II will stop on a pin They are big brake surfaces and the servo will give you all the extra push you need on the front brakes. However, those two guys are royalty so I'm not commenting! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prewarnut Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 (edited) Here is another caned one up for auction soon by RM Sotheby's. I like the caning in natural colors though. A P1 rebodied by Inskip in 1937 after he purchased the proceeds of Springfield. Edited February 12 by prewarnut (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 12 Author Share Posted February 12 23 minutes ago, prewarnut said: Here is another caned one up for auction soon by RM Sotheby's. I like the caning in natural colors though. A P1 rebodied by Inskip in 1937 after he purchased the proceeds of Springfield. Note sure the skirted fenders work. However, attractive as towncars go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bloom Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 2 hours ago, prewarnut said: Here is another caned one up for auction soon by RM Sotheby's. I like the caning in natural colors though. A P1 rebodied by Inskip in 1937 after he purchased the proceeds of Springfield. I like it. Very similar to this, which is the visual standard that I find myself measuring other town cars against. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bloom Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 Can those of you with experience with these P1 Rolls Royce's give some perspective of this car? I realize the seller might be reading our thoughts so I want to keep it positive, but I'm trying to learn more about these cars, The Springfield/Derby nuances, the pecking order of coachbuilders of the Make, just insight from those who've been around them, driven them and can give some insight to the Unwashed masses.... What do you like about it, what negatives are there if any. Any thoughts on a hammer price? https://www.mecum.com/lots/1114310/1928-rolls-royce-sedanca-sedan/?aa_id=576167-0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prewarnut Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 I can only comment stylistically....DeCampi notes it is a Hooper Sedanca which sold to Cleveland in 1928 - so it would appear an original body. I wonder how a British body made it over here for this purpose but presumably special ordered on account of the style offered. The front inside cowl/dash is more traditional/recessed maybe older styled. The increased use of herringbone woodwork is not common on the Brewsters here. The jump seats are not very well integrated. Overall it exudes quality and luxury. However the integration of stylistic and mechanical accoutrements in the cabin were a little improved in the following decade. Externally the fenders were undoubtedly updated. I think the blind quarters are a little "heavy". Nonetheless a quality car which is markedly different than any other on offer now. The market? not my guess. On a different note I wonder how modern driver's feel about rearward visibility when usually being slower than most other traffic. Forget adding a rearview mirror on this one.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted March 16 Author Share Posted March 16 I like it. Even the later updated fenders don't look that bad. If you were interested it is worth the 85 dollars from the RROC to get the file. If the body was mounted later in period there is a good chance it will be in the file. Note that as a divider car it may be cramped up front depending on your height. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prewarnut Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 ...by the way, while the herringbone woodwork looks a little irregular in coloration or staining it probably looks better in person. I would advise the future owner probably leave it as is or ensure a real good professional attend to it. It is not an easy restoration color-wise as I can attest to on a George I and George II period pieces I have touched up with shellac, wax and stain. The Brits were masters of subtly and the subtly here is to have contrasting, veined color which is not tremendously proud of the surrounding wood work. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bloom Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 46 minutes ago, prewarnut said: I can only comment stylistically....DeCampi notes it is a Hooper Sedanca which sold to Cleveland in 1928 - so it would appear an original body. I wonder how a British body made it over here for this purpose but presumably special ordered on account of the style offered. The front inside cowl/dash is more traditional/recessed maybe older styled. The increased use of herringbone woodwork is not common on the Brewsters here. The jump seats are not very well integrated. Overall it exudes quality and luxury. However the integration of stylistic and mechanical accoutrements in the cabin were a little improved in the following decade. Externally the fenders were undoubtedly updated. I think the blind quarters are a little "heavy". Nonetheless a quality car which is markedly different than any other on offer now. The market? not my guess. On a different note I wonder how modern driver's feel about rearward visibility when usually being slower than most other traffic. Forget adding a rearview mirror on this one.... 36 minutes ago, alsancle said: I like it. Even the later updated fenders don't look that bad. If you were interested it is worth the 85 dollars from the RROC to get the file. If the body was mounted later in period there is a good chance it will be in the file. Note that as a divider car it may be cramped up front depending on your height. So likely a Springfield Built car with the body shipped over? It seems odd that if that is what you wanted, you wouldn't have had the whole car as a Derby built start to finish and then shipped? I suppose there are all kinds of reasons why that might have made sense to the buyer (surely there were strange tax things going on back then). Springfield had bought Brewster by this time I think.... AJ, your point about the legroom in town cars of this era is something I appreciate more now after following some of these larger Prewar cars. I am also intimidated about the mechanicals of these early RR's. I've read about their sophisticated complexity relative to the higher end cars like Packard and Pierce Arrow and I can imagine what a nightmare you'd have if you stepped into a "bad" one. I like the herringbone pattern in the sense that it is different from more sedate trim offerings, It would be interesting to see it in person. The newer upholstery/finish in back seems out of character to me for the sum of what the car is. It doesn't fit but certainly looks serviceable. Any thoughts on if this is North or South of 150K as a hammer price at the auction in Indianapolis? I didn't see any auction estimates with the listing. The details from RROC would be interesting, I wonder if the seller has that. Lots to like about this towncar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted March 16 Author Share Posted March 16 A typical thing that would happen would be an owner really liked the body on their current car and wanted it moved to a newer chassis. So it is possible that the body was mounted on an earlier English Silver Ghost and then moved to the American PI chassis by Brewster as per request of the owner. As far as RR goes here is the good news: 1. Build quality is through the roof, superior to anything found in any other American built car. They were originally the most expensive cars you could buy in the US. 2. Club support is strong for all the models. Lots of meets, tours, etc. 3. You used to be able to buy any part from Fiennes in England off their website. They went through bankruptcy and are back in business to some level but not sure if it is the same as before. 4. A well sorted RR is incredibly reliable. Bad News: Worst car in the world if it has been messed with by a tractor mechanic. If parts are missing they can be very expensive. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prewarnut Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 I like the "etc, etc" on the body plaque! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motoringicons Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 (edited) This is one of the last cars built with a cast iron cylinder head (as opposed to an aluminum). The cast iron heads are TYPICALLY in good condition. The later (1929 and later) aluminum heads are typically not good and are extremely expensive to replace. The fenders are not the best looking, but, a good body person can take them back to the original look. I suppose they are OK and are part of the car's history. I like this car. Edited March 16 by motoringicons (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadee Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 John B, at first impression I think it's a beautiful car. Just a few comments: The bodywork is by Hooper. This coach builder is known for producing coaches of very high quality, very sturdy carriages. However, Hooper did not always produce the most elegant bodies (personal opinion). As this car is by Hooper, I think "sedanca de ville" is more appropriate than "town car"? The unfortunate modernization of front fenders has already been mentioned, however, I think the rear ones are also castrated? The upholstery in the rear does not seem to be very original. Someone did acquire a very large roll of upholstery fabric and did refurbish the FULL interior with the very same tissue?!? Yes, that is how cheap restorations are done. What a pity. It has already been mentioned : The jump seats are not very well integrated. I just think there is a piece of wood missing on top of those seats, some kind of parcel shelf ? Jumping to the front compartment : the instrument panel contains all original and correct instruments - what a joy. Except for the clock : the dial is not correct and the knob hanging from bottom of panel (for rewinding/adjustment) is not present. Left of steering column things are a little dark/missing ? One thing is for sure : the wooden instrument panel itself has been tampered with. The original version would have been of a different kind of wood (matching door panelling), it would have been way higher (for better visibility) and sleeker. Cutting a recess in a panel for passage of hand brake lever is a nice joke. RR cars would have had sleek, high positioned instrument panels : good for easy access - freedom of your legs. Not here, I am afraid. Under the bonnet things look fair. Several items are missing (by-pass oil cleaner, klaxon,...). Exhaust heated hotspot is not operational, radiator is leaking, etc... I could produce some more pages of boring text, but, is that what is needed ? Regarding hammer price, I have no crystal globe, but I do have some thoughts. Eventually you can send me a private message and I will respond. Good luck ! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted March 16 Author Share Posted March 16 1 hour ago, Kadee said: John B, at first impression I think it's a beautiful car. Just a few comments: The bodywork is by Hooper. This coach builder is known for producing coaches of very high quality, very sturdy carriages. However, Hooper did not always produce the most elegant bodies (personal opinion). As this car is by Hooper, I think "sedanca de ville" is more appropriate than "town car"? The unfortunate modernization of front fenders has already been mentioned, however, I think the rear ones are also castrated? The upholstery in the rear does not seem to be very original. Someone did acquire a very large roll of upholstery fabric and did refurbish the FULL interior with the very same tissue?!? Yes, that is how cheap restorations are done. What a pity. It has already been mentioned : The jump seats are not very well integrated. I just think there is a piece of wood missing on top of those seats, some kind of parcel shelf ? Jumping to the front compartment : the instrument panel contains all original and correct instruments - what a joy. Except for the clock : the dial is not correct and the knob hanging from bottom of panel (for rewinding/adjustment) is not present. Left of steering column things are a little dark/missing ? One thing is for sure : the wooden instrument panel itself has been tampered with. The original version would have been of a different kind of wood (matching door panelling), it would have been way higher (for better visibility) and sleeker. Cutting a recess in a panel for passage of hand brake lever is a nice joke. RR cars would have had sleek, high positioned instrument panels : good for easy access - freedom of your legs. Not here, I am afraid. Under the bonnet things look fair. Several items are missing (by-pass oil cleaner, klaxon,...). Exhaust heated hotspot is not operational, radiator is leaking, etc... I could produce some more pages of boring text, but, is that what is needed ? Regarding hammer price, I have no crystal globe, but I do have some thoughts. Eventually you can send me a private message and I will respond. Good luck ! It is interesting how they made the Hooper body work with the dash. Not typical Springfield you are right. Definitely need to know the full history before spending any money. Very possible those fenders were done in the 30s when skirting became a way to update the styling. Typically open fender cars with skirts added never look great (see 17" wheel Duesenberg for example). I do like the Hooper coachwork. Something different than the typical Brewster bodies, although I like those too. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Ward Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 (edited) On 3/16/2024 at 1:17 AM, John Bloom said: Can those of you with experience with these P1 Rolls Royce's give some perspective of this car? I realize the seller might be reading our thoughts so I want to keep it positive, but I'm trying to learn more about these cars, The Springfield/Derby nuances, the pecking order of coachbuilders of the Make, just insight from those who've been around them, driven them and can give some insight to the Unwashed masses.... What do you like about it, what negatives are there if any. Any thoughts on a hammer price? https://www.mecum.com/lots/1114310/1928-rolls-royce-sedanca-sedan/?aa_id=576167-0 There has been some very factual and correct observations made about this car as well as some very judgemental ones. I am currently restoring an A Series P2 and have obviously discussed this with many people and on many forums. The thing that strikes me most about the RR community as opposed to others is that the standards of perfection imposed by some are quite oppressive. I have seen and played with hundreds of these cars but the overriding impression I get is that there are many people who think you should restore your car to their (usually unattainable) standards. But the truth is you don’t. Your car only has to please one person thats you. the person who restored this car could well have returned it from a derelict back into a very serviceable Rolls Royce and it might have been done before parts, clubs, records, drawings were as available as they are today. The person who owned my car previously let it rot and bashed it up until it was almost un restorable, he is venerated as the respected collector and enthusiast instead of being pilloried as a j**k. I have no doubt that some time in the future somebody will criticise the choices I made whilst putting right the damage and neglect of the previous owner and perhaps dismiss it as a “cheap restoration” but I don’t care, like the person who restored this car I will be comfortable in the knowledge that I saved a great car from the scrap yard and if later owners want to over restore it to the ridicules standards needed to win a rosette at pebble beach they can but no car of mine will ever be judged by anybody other than me. I saw a chassis at Burghley restored to a standard never achieved by the factory and painted with gloss black instead of the brown primer it would have had, this might please today's council of perfection but it didn’t reflect the standards of the Rolls-Royce quality department. The car in these pictures may not win any rosettes but I’ll bet it was saved from the scrap yards and has probably given many more hours of reliable driving enjoyment than any of the trailer queens of pebble beach. don’t worry about what other people think, buy it and enjoy it. It is a learning curve but you’ll get there Edited March 23 by Keith Ward (see edit history) 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bloom Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 3 hours ago, Keith Ward said: There has been some very factual and correct observations made about this car as well as some very judgemental ones. I am currently restoring an A Series P2 and have obviously discussed this with many people and on many forums. The thing that strikes me most about the RR community as opposed to others is that the standards of perfection imposed by some are quite oppressive. I have seen and played with hundreds of these cars but the overriding impression I get is that there are many people who think you should restore your car to their (usually unattainable) standards. But the truth is you don’t. Your car only has to please one person thats you. the person who restored this car could well have returned it from a derelict back into a very serviceable Rolls Royce and it might have been done before parts, clubs, records, drawings were not as available as as they are today. The person who my car previously let it rot and bashed it up until it was almost un restorable but he is venerated as the respected collector and enthusiast instead of being pilloried as a j**k. I have no doubt that some time in the future somebody will criticise the choices I made whilst putting right the damage and neglect of the previous owner and perhaps dismiss it as a “cheap restoration” but I don’t care, like the person who restored this car I will be comfortable in the knowledge that I saved a great car from the scrap yard and if later owners want to over restore it to the ridicules standards needed to win a rosette at pebble beach they can but no car of mine will ever be judged by anybody other than me. I saw a chassis at Burghley restored to a standard never achieved by the factory and painted with gloss black instead of the brown primer it would have had, this might please today's council of perfection but it didn’t reflect the standards of the Rolls-Royce quality department. The car in these pictures may not win any rosettes but I’ll bet it was saved from the scrap yards and has probably given many more hours of reliable driving hours than the trailer queens of pebble beach. don’t worry about what other people think, buy it and enjoy it. It is a learning curve but you’ll get there Thanks Keith. Good words of wisdom from you that resonates with me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Ward Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 (edited) I think this car might sell for less than 100k probably about 65k to 85k but prices are very unpredictable. The dash is different but if this body was lifted of a Silver Ghost and grafted onto a P1 by the owner then this is probably understandable as the Ghosts often had much higher arched bonnets which would explain the very deep windscreen capping and this has resulted in the instrument board being pushed lower and coming close to the central levers of the Springfield P2 (remembering if this had come of a Derby Ghost chassis it would have had right hand steering and levers) I have seen many many Pre-Wars with veneered door and windscreen cappings but plain un-veneered instrument boards, my P2 has this arrangement. It is probable that the instrument board was fitted when (if) the body was transplanted from a Silver Ghost Chassis to but judging by the modern thumbnail bead edge and absence of the fabric between the screen capping and the instrument board I would say it is quite modern. Never mind though, its looks reasonably good and a useable car, a bit scruffy but all things that can put right (that’s the job of a pre-war owner), and all that means the sale price is more affordable. Good luck if you are thinking of buying it Edited March 23 by Keith Ward (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prewarnut Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 Bonhams has this Springfield Ghost up for auction in about 2 weeks, brought back to the UK presently. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted March 31 Author Share Posted March 31 (edited) Nice car! https://cars.bonhams.com/auction/29331/lot/123/1923-rolls-royce-4050hp-silver-ghost-tilbury-landaulette-chassis-no-370hh-engine-no-22-45/ Edited March 31 by alsancle (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 Hooper build quality is less than HALF of Brewster body. As far as the comments of "restoring to perfection" not being required........nothing could be further from the truth. Pre War Ghosts, P1's, PII's, and PIII's are cars that require craftsman hands that do not take shortcuts. Being born and raised in Springfield Mass, and having actually worked with FACTORY EMPLOYEES and managers as a very young guy..........I can tell you 95 percent of the restoration shops in the country can't properly deal with these cars. I have driven American Roll's cars countless miles, as well as the AJS series, and PIII's. There are only three shops in the US I would let service or restore one. It's easier to restore three Model J Duesenberg's than a single P1. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 I'll add to what Ed has said by saying that all it takes is extreme attention to detail and a very fine eye for extremely high quality workmanship in its mechanical aspects. The quality of EVERY mechanical part in a Ghost or PI is exceptional. What always surprises me is that very few seem to be able to tell the difference between a part that works, as in most American cars, and a truly exceptional one. I can't really comment on the PII or III...I've only worked on two PIIs and one PIII. I will say that the quality of a Brewster body – as opposed to the styling – is unsurpassed. I've never seen an English body that came up to their standards but, again, this is something that is lost on 98% of the owners. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted April 3 Author Share Posted April 3 Joe, we have a thread somewhere that talks about build quality among various coachbuilders. I think the consensus was that Brewster made the highest quality bodies prewar. I feel like the English builders made more stylish closed bodies than their America counterparts typically. Some English builders had a reputation for great quality also. Not all. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 (edited) A good example would be the Brewster "skeleton trim" below the head liner. Years ago I was told that those were originally just the frame to hold the headliner but they were so well made and fitted that someone decided to finish them and stretch the headliner material above them so that they showed. I don't believe anyone else did that. To fit those slightly bowed pieces so perfectly means they must have had exceptionally skilled woodworkers. My own PI, which had spent a good 30 years in a barn, had doors that closed like a bank vault. Edited April 4 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted April 9 Author Share Posted April 9 On 2/6/2024 at 11:37 AM, alsancle said: In fairness to Jay, it takes some practice. If you are shifting that high you need to double clutch, or go early and often. I find my Stearns is easier to shift. I just got around to reading the owners manual. The PII has a clutch brake and you are not supposed to double clutch on the way up. When the transmission gets warm they advise pausing in neutral (I assume to give the brake time?) before proceeding to the next gear. I was in a PII today and experimented with this and will shift find going up if you follow the pause methodology. An interesting tidbit is that they suggest using the throttle control on the steering wheel for the double clutch on the downshift. I need to think about that one a bit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bloom Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 Can some of you guys give a little perspective on the differences between a Ghost and a P1? I knew next to nothing about these cars a few years ago but I've been paying more attention to them and spent time looking at examples on line. Different engine and weight of the chassis? what makes them different from an engineering perspective? How are their relative strengths different? did the coach building offerings change substantially? Maybe this has been addressed in this thread and I didn't search properly to find it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 Shifting a Ghost VS a PI or PII is a totally different experience. Early English Ghosts shift easy. Later Ghosts are a bit more of a challenge. Any Rolls is a challenge for most people. They shift differently when cold and warm. Also, with four people in the car you will also have to adjust your timing and speed when you shift. Most importantly keep you idle as low as possible, and get through the gears as fast as you can without over revving the engine.......or it's gonna make lots of noise. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Colbert Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 Yes, Edinmass, absolutely correct re low idle speed and a quickly getting through the gears on a Silver Ghost. The operator's manual would have you in fourth at 11 m.p.h. as I remember. These engines have plenty of torque. In my 4 speed I start out in second gear when on the level, first being very low and not needed except starting uphill. Doing thusly shifts can be pleasant, that is once you've gotten used to avoiding the detents on the shifter quadrant. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 In a nutshell...the PI was, for the most part, a late Ghost chassis with a new OHV engine. The PII was an entirely redesigned car. Coachwork was largely interchangeable between the Ghost and the PI. In fact, it wasn't unusual for an owner who had a body that they especially liked to have it mounted on a new chassis. But, we're talking about the post-WWI cars. The Ghost was in production from 1908 to 1925 so there were many incremental changes over those years and, again, it wasn't unusual for an owner to send a car back to the factory to have it updated. Ghost's started out with a 4-speed transmission with overdrive on 4th, then went to a 3-speed and then back to 4 but without the overdrive. RR called the overdrive the "sprinting" gear. It was dropped because so many chauffeurs would get the car into 4th and leave it there (remembering that many of the early chauffeurs were former coachmen who knew nearly as little about the car as the owner did). Driven slowly in overdrive there was some noise and since RR prided itself on how quiet their cars were they removed the gear in order to protect their reputation for silent running. The PI is an OHV six. The Ghost has a side valve engine with "jugs" rather than a detachable head. The engine is the only major difference between them. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Ward Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 (edited) I would agree the Brewster bodies, although a bit glitzy for the English market were very high quality, almost as good as a Barker (the coach-builder of Kings) As for the council of perfection, I urge anybody reading this thread not to be put off buying and enjoying one of these cars by them. Like tens of thousands of other technicians, mechanics and chartered engineers I used to be licensed to work on aircraft frames and engines and compared to them for quality and complexity all the pre war Rolls-Royce cars are tractors. There is no mystique about them and people don’t die if they stop turning, any aviation mechanic, technician or engineer would find all of the pre-war cars a walk in the park compared to the most basic light aircraft engine and could fix, repair, maintain and reverse engineer them as expertly as they do in their day to day job without boasting. conversely I would be surprised to learn that there was a single pre-war Rolls-Royce specialist that has been certificated as sufficiently competent to work on a Cessna. so all I’m saying is ignore the people saying you need to do stuff to their dictates. Certainly try to find competent help but in the uk there is an old phrase which is “Self praise is a poor accolade” and the best artisans are usually the most modest. This will upset most people but it is demonstrable so if you are new to pre-war Rolls-Royce ownership remember: If the guy taking your money is calling the shots,,,you’re doing it wrong. 😉 Edited April 13 by Keith Ward Spelling (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prewarnut Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 Well said! Although the proper restoration of any English motorcar requires investing in the correct materials and workforce too. 😁 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Su8overdrive Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 (edited) Truer words never penned, fellow Prewarnet. And nice to hear from those preferring finely loomed wool to animal skin for their barouche's upholstery, see below. Meanwhile, thanks for the refreshing lucidity, Keith. Laurence Pomeroy, who knew what he was about, summed Rolls-Royce as "a triumph of craftsmanship over engineering," and "a bloody good confidence trick." The R-R-based '33-on Bentleys were nice enough, if overly complex. Pomeroy or another respected Brit motoring journalist in the day suggested R-R's new junior companion model, the "Small HP" 20 debuting for 1922, was a crib of the '20 Buick Six, tho' "not so good." It remained the basis for most R-R engines other than the troublesome 727 1936-39 Phantom III 447-ci ohv V-12s until Crewe's first V-8, at which introduction its well-lubricated chief engineer blurted out, "It's bloody near as good as the Chrysler." Some of us think the Bentley grille, both Cricklewood and Derby/Crewe, lovelier than the overbearing Parthenon edifice on Rolls-Royces, but that's a cosmetic aside. W. O. Bentley had nothing but open respect for Packard, which Napier tried to arrange manufacturing rights to but when rebuffed by Detroit was sneakily outbid by R-R when trying to buy Bentley. Just before War II, Rolls-Royce was annually disassembling a new Buick Limited to glean the latest US manufacturing tips, and of course, after the war, R-R/Bentley, and at the rear, Lagonda, used a nut-for-bolt copy of Packard's 1935-42 Saf-T-Flex i.f.s. After the "Classic" era, R-R used Delco electrics and HydraMatic. Packard wanted to use the latter but GM would not so allow until a full year after any improvements East Grand Avenue made, so Packard spent much of their Merlin and PT boat engine profit on, essentially, a Dynaflow with lock-up torque convertor. From 1935-on, the same time Cadillac, Duesenberg (810 Cord originally termed the "baby Duesenberg by A-C-D insiders), Lincoln, Packard introducing more rationally sized juniors, "pocket luxury cars" in the day's parlance, Rolls-Royce's focus was mainly aero engines, the cars an increasingly rationalized boutique assembled product, after the war chiefly bodied by Pressed Steel, Cowley near Oxford, who produced bodies for much of the Sceptered Isle motor industry, even as Briggs did for Packard and others, as did Murray, Budd. (Pierce-Arrow lacked the cash to introduce their planned 25,000 Hayes-bodied base $1,200 F.O.B. juniors for 1938.) We recall seeing ads for Rolls-Royces featuring "unborn calf hide." Cars fit for Caligula. Auto leather isn't all it's cracked up to be Hagerty https://www.hagerty.com › media › opinion › auto-leat... Sep 28, 2021 — So here is leather in a nutshell: They strip the living skin off a bovine, treat it with a lot of toxic stuff with five-syllable names, smoosh ... Edited April 15 by Su8overdrive (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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