Identify please seen on Isle of Wight

[Pilgrim65]

My neighbour here in Cyprus , has her home in the Isle of Wight , an island just off south coast of Uk , she went home recently and noticed this car at the local car show, thought it was my type of car , correct! Love it! However wonder what it is, looks 20/30s American , but I wonder if it's a kit car 

any ideas 

cheers

pilgrim

Edited July 8, 2017 by Pilgrim65 (see edit history)

[old car fan]

Auburn boat tail speedster,kit

Edited July 8, 2017 by old car fan (see edit history)

[Curti]

It is definitely not an original 35-36 Auburn speedster. The red car is fiberglass.  

[Pilgrim65]

I suspected as much , but still  a beutiful car.

thanks guys 

ps like the verse ?

[Mike36]

The beauty and styling of those Auburns was fantastic, to say the least. Unsurpassed by anyone, in my opinion.

[alsancle]

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade or sound like a purist/elitist but most kits are grotesque and this is no exception.  The original, on the other hand, is spectacular.

 

[60FlatTop]

When Elegant Motors in Indianapolis was running full page ads for those kits I was trying hard to figure how to get the $9,995 together to buy one. There were a few companies making them.

 

Pierce Brosnan used to drive one in the old Remington Steel TV detective show. Luckily, the cars aged a lot better than he did.

 

The kits I have seen were quite nicely done. The only noticeable detractor might be the motorcycle signal lights

 

The original is a bit of a cobble job, like many of the limited build cars of the 1930's. There is a copy of Rolling Sculpture on the shelf above me that tells the whole story. Left over bodies reformed, hood ornament cut in half for shiny glitz. Those 1930's guys building cars in caves with blacksmith tools would drop dead at the site of a Hobart $500 MIG welder. At least the Auburn didn't get a saggy cast aluminum cowl, even the repops.

 

Those Auburns are nice cars. When my Daughter started college at St. Lawrence I met Mr. Mace and thought, for sure, in four years I could have talked him out of this one.

 

I guess I have been under the skin of too many old cars to appreciate them as art. Maybe it is like tasting vintage wine and thinking it tastes like someone's feet.

 

Such a gosch mechanic- Bernie

Edited July 8, 2017 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[CarlLaFong]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade or sound like a purist/elitist but most kits are grotesque and this is no exception.  The original, on the other hand, is spectacular.

 

Other than the modern wheels and tires, there is, virtually, no discernible difference between the replica and the original, so the grotesqueness sorta escapes me. The, so called, Mercedes SSK and Bugatti replicars are another story. So, yeah, you do sound a bit like a purist/elitist

 

[Curti]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade or sound like a purist/elitist but most kits are grotesque and this is no exception.  The original, on the other hand, is spectacular.

 

There is a lot of difference between the yellow car and the red car in the original post.  The hubcaps and wheel disks are original equipment the single sided whitewalls are not.   The black car above is another bad copy.

Edited July 8, 2017 by Curti
update (see edit history)

[vermontboy]

My wife and I went up to Canton to look at a couple of antique cars at Mace Motors back in the mid 70's.. Mr. Mace took us on a tour of his collection - it was impressive to say the least (the cars we were looking at were "outdoor" cars - needing a lot of work).

 

Someone told me that the building had burned and that he lost his car collection. I just tried to locate the date on google but found nothing about the  fire.  Can anyone add confirmation one way or the other?

 

Some of my fondest memories are of roaming junkyards - we found an old Pierce Arrow out in a field in the Finger Lakes and I always enjoyed wandering around a wonderful assortment of really old cars at Elmer Bassage's place in Webster. In the late 60's he was still driving to Hershey in his 1917 Larrabee truck. 

 

Glad I grew up when I did......

[alsancle]

Carl,  there are so many differences between the original and the posted replica that I can't even start to list them.  If you have ever stood next to a replica in person you would see what I mean.

 

Generally, I don't understand the desire to have a replica, especially a poor copy like the one here.  Personally, I would rather have a real lesser version of a car, or something completely different that I could afford but still real.

[C Carl]

Hi Pilgrim ! I thought you might want to see the "Nautical" end of a BTS. Devoid of a few automotive cues (tail lights , bumpers) , you can almost hear the burble of a marine wet exhaust , a bit of a rooster tail and frothy wake about to be kicked-up. This car was being restored in Harry Nicks' fine shop when I made my annual "Pilgrimage" 2 or 3 years ago. Redlands , California. I certainly would prefer a somewhat threadbare original over any brand spanking new kit. I wonder what AACA policy is on kits over 25 years old ? I do not insist that others comply in any way shape or form with my preferences. I absolutely LOVE 4 door sedans from the late '20s- early '30s , and am overjoyed that few share my fondness for them. If I find gold on my ranch , the very first car I will buy will be Ed's original , unrestored '29 Pierce Arrow sedan. I often look at the pics of it here , and picture myself spending the rest of my life trying to drive it in all of the lower 48. Thanks , Pilgrim for the topic. Good eye. I have a feeling that some day you will surprise us with another addition to your stable !   - Carl

 

P.S. : here is my maximum deviation from any "Boattail". Original , unrestored 1927 Cadillac. Ed has cautioned me that if I get that P.A. off of him , I will never go back to "'Llac".  - CC

 

 

[60FlatTop]

The black one was on a '70ish Ford LTD chassis with a 400 Ford engine. It was not the level of quality of some of the better replicas, but good enough.

 

Look down the list of my cars. They aren't going to get a real connoisseur very excited. They don't have to.

 

I had a great time stopping in to see old Mr. Mace. He loved those old cars. Once my Wife and I were in the back building of the dealership and he had to leave. He told us to stay as long as well wanted. Then he turned to my Wife and said "If you have any questions while I am gone , just ask him. He knows everything." And he pointed at me.

 

The first time I stopped he and his son handed me a copy of Cars & Parts with a hood ornament test in it. I rattled off a few and the son looked at his Dad and said "He's doing better than me." That's when the Dad asked if I knew about the back garage. And escorted me into their treasure room.

Here's the showroom.

And the back.

 

If I only had one car I'd probably be pretty fussy about it. As it is I am quite happy just pleasing myself and I like those repop Auburns.

 

What I wrote earlier about the connoisseur's wine tasting like feet. Take a close look at some of these fabled iconic cars. I think you'll get the flavor.

 

Where's that knock off Rolex of mine?  I'm going out for a ride in my 1964 Bill Mitchell Bentley infringement.

Bernie

[CarlLaFong]

4 hours ago, alsancle said:

Carl,  there are so many differences between the original and the posted replica that I can't even start to list them.

Perhaps you would indulge me by listing three or four. The wheels and tires have been mentioned, already. These would have to be differences that rise to the level of grotesqueness, not thing like, "the replica has door hinges that are two millimeters too large" or "the replica has the wrong tailight". I have stood next to several of them, and I feel that they, along with the Duesenberg II are among the best of the replicars. I am, somewhat. familiar with the originals as I nearly bought a 35, years ago for a sum that was stupidly cheap, even then. Regrets, I have a few

[alsancle]

If you just want to talk about the red car:

 

1.  The pipes out of the both sides of the hood which are not even close to the originals and look fake.

 

2.  The bumpers are much heavier (not a few extra millimeters) and the additional lights obnoxious.

 

3.  The roof looks like a complete afterthought.

 

We can't see the interior but I guarantee the dash is the worst part of the car.  

[60FlatTop]

In the mid 1980's I had a 1935 Nash and getting replacement headlight lenses was tough. Nash and Auburn shared the same source originally and the repop guys were paying top buck for those lenses

Remember when Don Axlerod was the "Go to" guy for headlights.

Nash headlights in a pedestated Auburn. Puts the grow in growtesque. I feel like I have to wash my hands.

 

Just so's you know, I outgrew the Auburn and now I'm looking for a mid '70's Stutz Blackhawk. I almost bought that burned one that keeps surfacing. PM me if you have one. Or even a dormant, unfinished repliboat tail.

Bernie

[Grimy]

You're a sick puppy, Bernie, but you wear it well....

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, 60FlatTop said:

Just so's you know, I outgrew the Auburn and now I'm looking for a mid '70's Stutz Blackhawk. I almost bought that burned one that keeps surfacing. PM me if you have one. Or even a dormant, unfinished repliboat tail.

Bernie

 

I like the 70s Stutz, especially the very first ones with the unique wheels.   Looking at google images, this is the only one I could find with those wheels.

 

[CarlLaFong]

20 minutes ago, alsancle said:

 

I like the 70s Stutz, especially the very first ones with the unique wheels.   Looking at google images, this is the only one I could find with those wheels.

 

 

OMG!!!!!!!!!!

Those things are the very definition of Super Fly grotesque. I used to go to Jack LaLannes house when I drove for Warner Bros. He had one and I always marveled at the comprehensive tackiness of that thing. I'd sooner drive a Auburn replica than be seen dead in a Stutz.

[60FlatTop]

I think that maroon one with the full sail panels is the 4 speed car.. I like that one.

 

Remember, the Auburn Speedsters were a sales tactic initiated by hard times and a poor economy. The Stutz Blackhawk was the complete opposite. I like the revival concept as well as the reproductions.

And I had a '58 Silver Cloud in the garage right next to my Riviera for a few days. I kid about the Riviera being a Rolls knock off. The number of twin style lines is really something to match up side by side.

[alsancle]

Carl,  you see red when I see black 

 

I really only like the early Blackhawks as the later oned did go over the top.  I'm no expert so I can't give you the exact styling differences early to late although I know I like the wheels on the one I posted.  

 

To me,  the Blackhawk was a unique coachbuilt car in the 1970s made to a high build quality.  The Auburn speedster replicas are the opposite in every respect:  Back yard duct tape fiber glass construction to a poor quality, and a copy of something not an original idea.

[alsancle]

10 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

I think that maroon one with the full sail panels is the 4 speed car.. I like that one.

 

Remember, the Auburn Speedsters were a sales tactic initiated by hard times and a poor economy. The Stutz Blackhawk was the complete opposite. I like the revival concept as well as the reproductions.

And I had a '58 Silver Cloud in the garage right next to my Riviera for a few days. I kid about the Riviera being a Rolls knock off. The number of twin style lines is really something to match up side by side.

 

Bernie,  how many four speed cars were built?  I would buy one of those !!!

[padgett]

AFAIR many of those US replicars were rebodied Monte Carlos and Grand Prixs to meet emissions regs. Most kept the stock dash.

[60FlatTop]

I have been following the cars pretty close since the Exners developed the original designs. The maroon car is the only one 4 speed I know of. And probably the only one. I can't find a picture now.

 

To start with a replica Auburn and end up on the Stutz revival is a stretch, almost as completely different as their origins. It takes me back to the 1960's when the silicon based beings called the crew of Star Trek's Enterprise "Sacks of water". One is based on a vision of what to do with the stuff on the spare parts bin. The other is design to capture ques of the past and drop them into a unique time that, itself, has passed. A strictly visual comment on how fitting they might be is way out of context. I have been deeply immersed in the hobby since 1959. I haven't missed much context like some of the sacks of water commenting.

 

In 1978 my Wife, then girlfriend and I visited the ACD Museum in Auburn. The Duesenberg revival car was there and I think a replica, as well. That is how my '64 Riviera turned from brown to maroon in 1981. Inspiration.

 

If you think the revival Stutz is bad, Every time I go out into the garage I look at my 1948 Packard and catch the styling cues that make me want to massage it into a Bugatti Galibier knock off. A lot of the lines are there for me.

I also had a '66 Toronado and every time I looked at the car the Cord design cues sparkled for me. Maybe it's the Tommy in me. It's deeper I "become part of the machine".

Bernie

 

Frequently I peruse http://www.madle.org/estutz.htm

This is the one I nearly bought about fifteen years ago.

 

It was next to a fire and quite heat damaged

[alsancle]

This is the link to the one I posted:  http://www.madle.org/ebh71pp.htm

 

Looks like an automatic.  But I like it.  I think I like the pre-production cars and the 71 the most.  Looks like more doodads were hung on the later cars.