Are we pricing our old cars and hobby out of existence?

[cahartley]

4 hours ago, edinmass said:

So, while we are on the prices of old cars........realistically you should buy a car today, the best you can afford & justify. The past is forever gone, there is no guarantee of a future, and all of us live in the present. Do yourself a favor and buy a present and give it to yourself.

But if you don't pull the trigger, you will alway be empty handed. Be realistic, buy what you can afford, but DO IT. 

 

These words have a lot of meaning for me........and I DID it.

It took the notion of never owning my dream car unless I faced the music NOW,.

I set my resolve and sold (selling) some cars to DO IT.

If I hadn't done this now I'd be kicking myself all the way to the grave....... 

 

 

 

 

 

[60FlatTop]

I was 30 years old and bought the '64 Riviera that had been my dream car since I rode my bicycle to the Buick dealer and brought the 1963 brochure home in the basket.

 

For 38 years the feeling of sitting in a group discussing what they'd like if they had their choice; and thinking "I have mine!" is really good. It doesn't cure you from looking at others, but it sure feels good to know the next one will be a second or lesser choice.

 

When I bought mine I paid twice what the average one was selling for. I guess it averages out to $52 a year for me.

 

And I can tell you, for sure, there is one guy still out there who would be hacking on that hairball if he had ever paid for anything 40 years ago.

 

Regrets are what you kick at on the way to the grave. Many people get fooled into thinking regrets are for things you did. It ain't so. The real regrets are for things you didn't do.

Bernie

[Curti]

When we get old and look back on our lives, the regrets are the things we didn't do rather than the things we did do.

[alsancle]

2 hours ago, edinmass said:

Mercer09- That was the plan.......and for me it worked fine. With five sisters that were very adept at multiplying, I have my "loaner children".......it didn't work out as well as I thought, I ended up being the favorite uncle, I can't count the cars and bills I have paid for over the years, but it was still much less expensive! 

 

My dad sold his Murphy Conv sedan to pay our college bills.   I'll be selling some stuff to pay for my kids.  Such is the circle of life.

[Dynaflash8]

10 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

For 38 years the feeling of sitting in a group discussing what they'd like if they had their choice; and thinking "I have mine!" is really good. It doesn't cure you from looking at others, but it sure feels good to know the next one will be a second or lesser choice.

 

[Dynaflash8]

Well, Flattop, I guess I've already done it.  My dream car was to get the car back that I bought and sold when I was 16, and so I borrowed the money and bought a plain car for $120 in 1963 and restored it to look exactly like the car I sold to please a long ago girlfriend when I was 16.  It took 37 years before I got an AACA Grand National with it.  You see it to the left, the blue '39 Buick Special with sidemounts and blue leather interior.  I've had 75 cars since then but that one always stayed.  I've had the '39 convertible sedan twice, and I dreamed of a '39 Buick convertible coupe for years.  I got it, spent a fortune on a restoration, got sick, sold it for 2/3 of what I had in it and now Volo Museum is trying to sell it for the money I should have gotten, but didn't.  I don't regret selling any but one of them, and there is hardly any car out there now that I lust for.  But that one I do wish I could get back.  It was a 1941 Buick Limited 90 I had restored in two-tone gray.  If I could find it, I'd buy it back.  I sold it during those 15% interest times when the bank offered me a 20% principal discount to pay off my mortgage.  I've never had a mortgage since then.  For that reason I don't regret selling it, but I do wish I could get it back like I did the '39 convertible sedan.  I sold it to build a second home in the country, but I got it back and the cost was what I'd have paid in interest to the bank.  So now I'd like to have another really good 1941 Buick Limited 90 that is authentically restored and fully appeals to me.  Then I might step up to one of those super high prices....or, I feel they are.  I've had every kind of car I really desired in my life, and a bunch that were fill-ins.  The only one I haven't ever had would be a 1949 Buick Riviera hardtop, but I don't want one of them enough to step up to the price.  Even if I find a 1941 Buick Limited, it'll have to knock my socks off before I'll cut my retirement monthly income to have it.  It used to be fun when they were $75, $150, $300 but when they get over $10,000 too much of my Dad comes out of me.  I like living day to day without any of the stress or strain that I lived under when I had a house payment, two kids, and the need for a newer daily driver because I couldn't afford to fix the old one, and when I didn't have two nickels to rub together.  I really fear going back to that, especially when I'm too old to go out and make more money.  Easy Street, relatively, is a nice place to live.  In this day of the streetrod, I don't find much to do with the old cars I love, locally, but only nationally.  And with gas, motels, banquet costs all having gone up with the inflation that takes a lot of money. I love to go and go and go.  So, Pal, I really don't have many old car related regrets.  I'm going to try and not answer any other comments.  I think I get carried away.

Our 1941 Buick Limited 2.tif

Edited July 5, 2017 by Dynaflash8 (see edit history)

[Guest Skyking]

On 7/3/2017 at 10:39 AM, Dynaflash8 said:

Not on pre-war cars or even cars in the 50s. 

You said "old cars" in your post.  Maybe you should be more specific next time.  And you wonder why you guys can't attract young members!!!

[Frantz]

Quote

You said "old cars" in your post.  Maybe you should be more specific next time.  And you wonder why you guys can't attract young members!!!

Was talking with members in local region and someone brought up it's time to go after "newer cars"... he was talking about muscle cars from the 1960s! SMH

[60FlatTop]

2 hours ago, Skyking said:

And you wonder why you guys can't attract young members!!!

 

I was very excited to get a day job after working a swing shift for ten years. That was in 1979, just turned 30. Having an evening join the Buick Club and go to the chapter meeting was one of my first thoughts. The Buick Club and the Cadillac Club have been my favorites for the social aspect over the years.

 

As a young guy, going to car shows since 1961, my underlying memory is a bunch of sour old farts that I don't want to be like today. I can't change the impression I was left with. Outside of a small group of personal friends with the depth of interest I have, I don't do much with the organized events. If I was 30 I would be hanging out with friends my own age...... pretty much as I do now.

 

Do thoughts like that affect old car prices today and in the future? Sure. They even have in the past.

Bernie

[poci1957]

I would also say that having an old car is still affordable except for a few conditions:

 

First, the affordable old car cannot require a full professional restoration or it is unaffordable for most people, but that really has been the case since probably the 1980s or before. 

 

Second, being only interested in “icon” cars will make anyone feel the hobby is unaffordable.  Any fledgling middle class hobbyist watching the cable TV auctions who smugly insists he will only be happy with a top quality Chevelle SS 454, Hemi Cuda or the like probably cannot participate, but a guy who realizes he can enjoy a Malibu or Duster can.  He just cannot afford to have it professionally restored.  Aaron65 says “the key to happiness in the old car hobby is lowered expectations” and that puts it more bluntly than I would but he is right.

 

Third, asking prices and selling prices are different things and the idea of getting rich buying low and selling high is a long gone dream for most old cars.  Usually the best you can hope for is to buy reasonable (patience is a virtue) and sell without losing money (patience is a virtue).  Regrettably the market always seems to say something I want is a valuable heirloom and something I have is worth nothing to anyone, Todd C 

[Guest SaddleRider]

On ‎7‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 8:29 AM, Dynaflash8 said:

No, it's more like streetrods at the cruise-ins.  For a couple of  years I had a 1941 Buick Roadmaster 4-door convertible with dual carbs.  I took it uptown and opened the hood thinking some of those people would be impressed.  The first guy by asked, "when are you going to put a Chevy 350 into this thing?"

 

You have touched indirectly on the simple fact that times change !    In the mid 1950's,  some of us thought the largest, most powerful, most elegant "super-cars" of the super-rich of the 1920's and 1930's were worth saving,  so we had a club for that.   Others thought "brass era" cars  (cars made before the 1920's that had "antique" features....(external contracting brakes only on the rear wheels, "T" head motors with incredibly long strokes, acetylene gas lighting or very primitive electrical systems...etc..)  were worth saving...and had a club for that.

 

Fine so far.   We couldn't have cared less then, about sixty or seventy year old cars...BECAUSE THERE WERENT ANY ! 

 

A VERY few folks preserved some stage coaches and conastoga wagons....but nobody paid any attention to them.

 

See where this is going.....a modern young person cares abnout as much as that beautiful pre-war Buick of yours,  as I cared about a stage coach when I was a kid....!

[mrcvs]

17 hours ago, poci1957 said:

...the idea of getting rich buying low and selling high is a long gone dream for most old cars.  Usually the best you can hope for is to buy reasonable (patience is a virtue) and sell without losing money (patience is a virtue).  

This might be part of the problem, too, sort of like real estate. Traditionally, up until after WWII, a house was a place to live and real estate didn't appreciate all that much. The last 10 years are more like this, or, worse yet, housing depreciated. But, from after WWII until about 2007, it didn't matter what you bought, when you sold, you were going to make money, be it a house or an old car. Now, with this not necessarily a given, it has taken a lot of the fun out of owning or investing in real estate and, likewise, the same must be with old cars as well, I should think.

[autoluke]

DYNAFLASH EIGHT

 

Harwood Motors is listing a '41 Buick Limited which may be the car for you.

 

Great people to deal with !

 

Phil

[1912Staver]

Lots of real estate speculation / profiting here on the west coast of Canada. Prices often rise 25%-40% in a year. And record sales. Would be a good money making situation except the minimum buy in is now about $1,000,000.00 Cdn. / aprox.  $750,000.00 $U.S.. And most of the real gains are in the 3-4 Million range. Some people are really cashing in  but many fear a bubble that sooner or later will pop. 1 to 5 million is an awful lot of money to risk for anyone other than a truly wealthy person.  But thousands are rolling the wheel every year and have been for the last several years. My 82 year old father just sold the house he bought 20 years ago or so for about 8 times what he paid for it. Not much of a house at that, but he will now have a decently funded old age. Not a well laid out investment plan, just good luck / being at the right point of his life at the right time.

 

Trust me , we don't want to see a similar investor feeding frenzy in the old car market. While many have made a fortune in the local housing market the social cost has been huge. Young people are shut out  of starting their lives except by paying sky high rent in a market where they have no hope of becoming homeowners. Many houses and condos sit vacant , owned by people too wealthy to be bothered by renters. A similar situation in collector cars would see most cars shut up in secure storage waiting for the next profit taking round. Few old cars would actually be enjoyed or driven, for fear of devaluation. And the younger generation would become completely disconnected from the old car hobby.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited July 6, 2017 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Buffalowed Bill]

I have to say that I can't believe how fast this thread has taken off! It means that the hobby is still alive! Some folks have found what they are looking, for while others seem to sit on the sidelines and watch as the old car world changes. When I reflect on my life as a car collector, it's most always been the case of omission rather then commission that has put me behind the eight ball. I've passed on many deals that I should have jumped on, while I have most always felt good about the cars that I did buy.

 

Except for the high end cars, I see a large supply of affordable cars going begging. When someone tells me he can't find a car, I have to feel that either he his looking for the wrong car, or in the wrong place. Unless I missed it, I still don't know what the guy who started the thread has been looking for, what vintage he is looking for, what he would find acceptable, and what his budget is. No disrespect, but I think that too often a guy gets to focused in one direction (car) and has blinders on what's going on in the rest of the market. Chevrolets will always be strong, the independents weak, in between there is a vast affordable market. I doubt that a guy who focuses on a Chevrolet from the sixties would be able to step down to a sixties Studebaker or Rambler. I should add that any era would probably be the same.

 

I feel sorry for the potential car buyers in Canada, but other side of the coin it should be easy to sell car. Between the Americans, Europeans and the folks down under, it should be a sellers market. I find it hard to fathom though, how the Canadians could let cars like the Ratsoy collection escape to China. There seemed to be people in BC that knew it was for sale, but it was not made available south of the boarder.

[1912Staver]

The big problem with the Ratsoy collection{ local to me, in fact I went to high school with his son years ago} was that he wanted to sell it all or nothing. And he wanted the equivalent to top market retail for each and every car. It added up to a very substantial sum and few people who might be able to swing the cost wanted the entire collection. Many of the cars were pretty middle of the road. There is quite a good thread on here somewhere with comments from some of the areas people who were in a position to be potential buyers and why they passed on the purchase.

 And yes, Canada is a dark place  these days for middle class car hobbyists . High cost of living, the Canadian peso, and generally lack luster wages. Actually it's not even that easy to sell a car. For U.S. buyers the car has to be better than average or a total give away in order to be worth the extra trouble of crossing the border. The local market of ordinary cars for ordinary buyers is quite flat. Doesn't help that Canadian sellers see U.S. sales prices and do a quick adjustment to the price even though their target market is local.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited July 6, 2017 by 1912Staver (see edit history)