midman

AACA Museum & AACA, What is Going On

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11 minutes ago, MCHinson said:

Just for information purposes, CARHUNTER, who recently registered on the site and stirred up this discussion deleted his two posts himself. They were not removed by the moderators.

 

Thank you, Matt, for that info and I'm glad to hear it. I'll leave my comment to Steve intact and unaltered........................Bob

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Let's make the Antique Automobile Club of America the BEST it can be!

I'm sure going to try!

:)

 

 

Edited by AC Fuhrman
updating (see edit history)
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I'm not an AACA member but I sure am sorry to hear about this. It sounds like nobody wins in this situation. I really just wanted to reply with a couple of thoughts, one being that I would also advise against building your own, new museum. As someone said early on, they are huge financial drains and so you may consider aligning with various museums around the country (or world) to establish free, or more likely highly discounted, admission for AACA members.  Many members travel and could likely make even better use of this amenity than a single stand-alone museum that I'd wager most current members have never even been to. Sure most don't cater exclusively to the era and style of car that appeals to AACA members, but most all good car museums have enough variety to keep any car fan interested. Just consider the ACD Museum in Auburn, the Indianapolis Motor Speedway Museum, Petersen Museum in LA, LeMay in WA, Revs Institute, World of Speed, and so on.

 

My second thought is to simply ask you all not to give up. Who knows what changes will come in leadership, attitudes, or even properties over time, and the AACA is clearly in this for the long haul, so sit tight and see where things lead. Heck, the museum may eventually go bankrupt without your support, and who knows, maybe you pick up the whole lot at an auction for pennies on the dollar!

 

Good luck to all, I certainly wish you the very best. What you have in fellowship cannot be matched by a room full of old cars.

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Bear in   mind that the AACA has no intention of  "building their own museum" as far as I know. The idea of a museum was suggested in this forum and seems to have taken on a life of its own. The idea does not even merit discussion in the present context.

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Matt's post #478 likely sums up close to 500 comments for most of us here.  One additional comment is that after trying to digest this (OK, maybe not every comment) I would back off my initial concerns about AACA advising membership of the situation earlier rather than later.  Story seems to speak to why it likely made more sense to address in the manner it was.

 

Also, regarding the museum communication, the removal of Tom Cox from Museum BOD seems to insinuate "this is all his doing people, but if AACA wants to appoint someone else well that would be ok" - enough to really turn me off the the Museum, personally I will fund AACA through membership and consider anything else the club might make an appeal for.  Museum can pound sand - I do think it is innapropriate to reach out to membership of an organization you just broke off from, clearly leveraging that organization's mailing list.  I get why they would have it but to me it was bad form, probably just the opposite of the intended effect.  Will I ever step foot in there, sure, why not, but I have no plans to support them financially or otherwise.

Edited by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)
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I received the AACA's mailing on this issue about two weeks ago, and I received the AACA Museum's mailing about it a couple of days ago. I have read both, and I have read some but not all 20 pages of the comments here. I fail to see why the Museum's letter and proposal(s) are held in such low regard by the commenters here. I know I'm not privy to all of the comments, meetings, and personalities involved--nor do I want to be, but it seems to me that the Museum's proposal of approximately $1 million of free land in return for $10 on the dues of every AACA member was a generous offer, even with some of the caveats that were attached to it. For crying out loud, these two groups need to be located next to each other, if not under the same roof. A new, separate AACA & library facility somewhere will cost a lot more than a $10 increase in the dues. If two groups of grown adults can't find a way to make it happen, then they all ought to resign in disgrace, give both boards a clean slate, and submit the whole thing to a professional mediator (I know one who is a very active Buick Club member).

 

Pete Phillips

Leonard, Texas

AACA, Buick Club, Studebaker Driver's Club, H-E-T Club, Cadillac/LaSalle Club, Nash Club member

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The land was not free, no matter how the museum wants to spin that story.

 

Pete you may want to read a bit more. You missed a few of the important points. The final offer from the museum would have required the club to raise the money to build the addition to the museum, increase the size of the project so that the museum would receive 1/3 of the space that the club paid to build, and would also require the club to raise double what was needed for the addition because the club would have to give 50% of the money raised to the museum. The museum board also refused the club's offer to use a mediator to try to come up with a merger agreement. There are other issues but those are the top ones in my opinion.

 

The club and the museum can function out of two separate facilities without a problem... they have been doing that since the museum was first built.  Hopefully in the future, the museum and the club will be able to get back to a more "family like" relationship. Unless that happens in the next few months, there is no way the club and the museum will end up on the same campus. It would have been nice if it would have worked out, but it will not be a major problem for the club that it did not work out. 

 

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Pete, you need to read over this material again.  You mention the $10.00 per membership.  That is over $300,000 a year to support a organization that has no legal affiliation with AACA.  The club cannot afford to give them that amount of income without raising dues.  So again, you are asking all members of AACA to support a museum that bears our name but otherwise is not connected to us nor would we have any say  in regards to their operation at all.  That is one issue.  The point about the "free" land worth a "Million" is it is not free at all.  THEIR proposal also asks for 50% of all the money raised to build a new HQ/Library.  That would amount to millions.  So, no matter how you dress this pig up it still means that we would have to raise twice the money we need in order to accomplish our goals.  How does this not sound like a one sided deal?

 

Take a step back and add the fact that the club has already generously given them over a $1,000,000 and guess who raised the money to pay for the land in the first place?  Is the museum offer of land truly generous as you say?   

 

I did not want to post here anymore but the dis-information is unfair to our board of directors.  The club would have submitted to mediation or binding arbitration at any time!  When our club attempted one more time after the fall meet to go back to the table it included the offer for the negotiating committee to take leave and be replace by three new non-board members including a retired federal judge who is a practicing mediator. That opportunity was not accepted by the other side unless we rescinded our vote to not donate to them in 2017.  Another words pay to play. Pay to simply talk.

 

Look, I understand all of this is frustrating and that it is hard for people to understand how we got into this mess.  There is a lot more background to this but the facts are the facts and AACA has no desire to make this personal nor to cast anyone in a bad light.  Not us.  This is a business deal gone bad, we attempted to explain why.  I would also ask you to read comments about how little our donation means to the museum in terms of their overall budget.  If that is really the truth then what is all the fuss.  Just move on and replace that income right? 

 

I've actually said more than I wanted to but I do not think that national board needs to be found at fault.  They have simply done what they felt they had to.  My advice is to let this play out and hope that in the future things work out for everyone.

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I'm of the opinion that the Club should worry about the Club and do what's best for the Club. I have nothing against the museum but the Club's done a lot more for me than the museum ever could or will. In fact only recently have they even spoken to me by sending me mailings. Wonder where they got my address?..........Bob

Edited by Bhigdog (see edit history)
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10 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

 In fact only recently have they even spoken to me by sending me mailings. Wonder where they got my address?..........Bob

They haven't spoken to me at all Bob, and I made donations to them the last few years. :)

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 I must be their new best friend...............Bob

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I don't know exactly when the AACA Official Publication, "Antique Automobile", is coming out, hopefully it's coming soon. 

With in the Magazine we should have the Final Word about what has been discussed in this forum pertaining to the Club and the Museum.

 

 After the Magazine has been given time for review by the Club Membership, I suggest we close the book on this forum Topic  ".......What is Going On" .  Then start a new Topic in the forum, "Information and Details of the New Construction of our HQ and Library. 

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I suggest a free flow of information and comment is the best medicine for the situation. I further suggest that each and every forum member has the ability to personally close his or her book on the topic by simply not opening the thread.

Like every previous contentious thread it's worked out most amicably when it's been  allowed to burn itself out and die a natural death without heavy handed intervention.

I doubt the magazine article will be the final word. In fact I think it will generate a spate of comments. And that's a very good thing. How else will the BOD know the feelings of the people they represent?................Bob

Edited by Bhigdog (see edit history)
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30 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

How else will the BOD know the feelings of the people they represent?................Bob

Some call me, Bob!

804-313-1983

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15 minutes ago, R W Burgess said:

Some call me, Bob!

804-313-1983

Of course, but many others voice their concerns and comments in other ways. I would think any BOD would welcome and encourage them all whether they agreed or not. At least I would...................Bob

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I received the museum's letter yesterday and read it tonight.

 

For me, a few questions arise from the museum's letter.

 

1) Three acres in Hershey, PA, is valued at a million dollars? Maybe I am out of touch with land values, but that seems excessively high to me. In certain areas, of course, but in Hershey, PA? 

 

2) Exactly what was the reason Tom Cox was voted off the musuem BoD, "under section 2.6.2 of [the museum's] bylaws." Not going to bother to research the museum's bylaws, but seems logical he was removed for "cause." Anyone know what that cause is? I have met Tom, and know of his activities in other fields, and would be surprised to learn he was removed for clearly objectionable actions.

 

3) Why does the museum now have access to the AACA's membership mailing list to enable them to mail me and the other AACA members?

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1 hour ago, Bhigdog said:

I suggest a free flow of information and comment is the best medicine for the situation. I further suggest that each and every forum member has the ability to personally close his or her book on the topic by simply not opening the thread.

Like every previous contentious thread it's worked out most amicably when it's been  allowed to burn itself out and die a natural death without heavy handed intervention.

I doubt the magazine article will be the final word. In fact I think it will generate a spate of comments. And that's a very good thing. How else will the BOD know the feelings of the people they represent?................Bob

 

The problem I see is that we are starting to see the same conversations here, over and over again with people starting to raise the same issues, concerns and questions that have already been addressed, answered and explained with in the 20 pages of 495 Posts. Once the Magazine is issued there is the potential that the number of people who have not reviewed the information within this forum will dramatically increase and bury the BOD in having to respond, slowing the work that they need to be doing to get things moving. We have a good BOD and ultimately they need to do what they were entrusted with for the good of the Club and begin the work needed to enlarge the HQ & Library.

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4 minutes ago, Doug Novak said:

The problem I see is that we are starting to see the same conversations here, over and over again with people starting to raise the same issues, concerns and questions that have already been addressed, answered and explained with in the 20 pages of 495 Posts

And most of the time the BOD does not or even need to respond. It's merely chatter among the members and does neither harm nor good.

 

6 minutes ago, Doug Novak said:

Once the Magazine is issued there is the potential that the number of people who have not reviewed the information within this forum will dramatically increase and bury the BOD in having to respond,

This will happen with or with out the forum or it's comments. In fact if the readers check in here they may find their questions answered. As a point,there are only a few BOD members who take the time to respond here. In fact the statement has been made that most BOD members do not even visit the forum

 

10 minutes ago, Doug Novak said:

We have a good BOD and ultimately they need to do what they were entrusted with for the good of the Club and begin the work needed to enlarge the HQ & Library.

.Agreed. I hope you will agree that part of managing for the good of the club is making the time necessary to consider the views of it's members thus ensuring continued satisfaction with the club's direction and continued renewals....................Bob

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3 hours ago, R W Burgess said:

Some call me, Bob!

804-313-1983

 

Others call me,

504-452-1955 (Central time zone)

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10 hours ago, gwells said:

I received the museum's letter yesterday and read it tonight.

 

For me, a few questions arise from the museum's letter.

 

1) Three acres in Hershey, PA, is valued at a million dollars? Maybe I am out of touch with land values, but that seems excessively high to me. In certain areas, of course, but in Hershey, PA? 

 

2) Exactly what was the reason Tom Cox was voted off the musuem BoD, "under section 2.6.2 of [the museum's] bylaws." Not going to bother to research the museum's bylaws, but seems logical he was removed for "cause." Anyone know what that cause is? I have met Tom, and know of his activities in other fields, and would be surprised to learn he was removed for clearly objectionable actions.

 

3) Why does the museum now have access to the AACA's membership mailing list to enable them to mail me and the other AACA members?

 

1.  $330,000 an acre?  You betcha it is high!  Also the acreage is not flat and will cause concessions in building.  However if you have read the letter thoroughly you will realize they are asking literally millions per acre.

2.  Ask yourself this.  Why bring up the issue of Tom?  Does it not sound like they are trying to smear him personally?  Does it or other issues the museum has brought up have anything to do with a failed business deal?  What type of people would behave this way?  In any event, Tom stood up for our members and does not shy away from his responsibilities to speak out.  What's that movie line "you can't stand the truth?" 

3.  Good question, they were not given permission by us in any way. We have in all our rosters either a copyright or a disclaimer that the rosters are not to be used without our permission.  Hmmmmm.

 

I am doing my best to still not say anything personal about those that would try to harm this club or find it fun to attack individuals.  I will let all of you decide who is handling their business ethically. 

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12 hours ago, R W Burgess said:

Some call me, Bob!

804-313-1983

 

9 hours ago, Marty Roth said:

Others call me,

504-452-1955 (Central time zone)

 

You both, along with Steve M and most likely other BOD members are to commended for making your selves available to members. About the only thing that gets me exercised over this thread is the occasional call to close it out. I'm very pleased that management's chosen to resist that urge and has presented it's position open to public scrutiny..................Bob

 

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11 hours ago, Bhigdog said:

And most of the time the BOD does not or even need to respond. It's merely chatter among the members and does neither harm nor good.

 

This will happen with or with out the forum or it's comments. In fact if the readers check in here they may find their questions answered. As a point,there are only a few BOD members who take the time to respond here. In fact the statement has been made that most BOD members do not even visit the forum

 

.Agreed. I hope you will agree that part of managing for the good of the club is making the time necessary to consider the views of it's members thus ensuring continued satisfaction with the club's direction and continued renewals....................Bob

 

Bob, per my original comment, "After the Magazine has been given time for review by the Club Membership", I think this is agreeing some what with what you are saying, but lets get the wheels rolling with what happens next.

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Agreed. I think we're all waiting for the other shoe to drop although I don't know what more can be said. My prediction is a flurry of comments,  this thread (if allowed) will die a natural death, and the BOD will do what they will do. But the important thing is we were both kept informed and allowed to express ourselves..........Bob

11 minutes ago, Doug Novak said:

 

Bob, per my original comment, "After the Magazine has been given time for review by the Club Membership", I think this is agreeing some what with what you are saying, but lets get the wheels rolling with what happens next.

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And just to reiterate, if the whole library could be put online for "members only", the value would far outstrip any physical museum.

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Padgett, our library is becoming more and more digital every day with hundreds of thousands of documents scanned.  However, we are a FREE PUBLIC Library and we are proud of that.  Too many other libraries are "members only" or cannot be accessed by average folk.  If we love the hobby we should make it available to everyone worldwide,  Those that decided it should be a public library are to be commended as AACA should be about helping the entire collectible vehicle hobby. 

 

This is also a reason why people should support our library as it has little sources of income...

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