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140 is a fantasy, 322 cid with their manifold and carburation just isn't gonna happen. 110 would be on the high side in my humble opinion. Having worked on and driven several of them, I found them lackluster and wanting. They are often in very interesting and rare cars. The DuPont speedster I played with years ago really floated my boat, until I drove it. Ed

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Ed,  your issue is too much time driving stuff with over 400 cubes.  I have a feeling that all the "big" 1928-1931 eights, save Duesenberg fall in to the category of "lackluster".   But at the time,  50mph was moving fast.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/7/2016 at 4:41 PM, v.milke said:

But it used to be two tone blue... and white before that!

 

If I recall the story correctly, but you can surely elaborate, the guy that got the plane from your grandfather in the trade crashed it that same day or within a few days... luckily your Grandfather's car is still around and as you can see it is quite a car!

 

 

1926 Elcar 8-81 Landau Roadster, 1, Dave Sanders.JPG

 

 

I finally found a photo of my grandfather's Travel Air biplane he traded for the Elcar: (note the engine running)

Capture.JPG

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On 1/20/2017 at 10:46 PM, edinmass said:

140 is a fantasy, 322 cid with their manifold and carburation just isn't gonna happen. 110 would be on the high side in my humble opinion. Having worked on and driven several of them, I found them lackluster and wanting. They are often in very interesting and rare cars. The DuPont speedster I played with years ago really floated my boat, until I drove it. Ed

Ok, I admit that I tend to try and wring out a few extra horsepower where ever possible. Nothing crazy, but minor selective adjustments can make a big difference in performance and drivability. On some cars, major adjustments can be done without effecting visual changes, that can add up to twenty percent or more power. I admit to doing this on several occasions. Every time I drive one of the "super mod" engines, it brings a smile to my face. Some motors don't offer much way of improvements due to design restraints. Most importantly, remember to drive it like you stole it!

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 8.12.2016 at 0:54 AM, v.milke said:

1927 Elcar 6-70, Touring car in Reikjavik, Iceland

 

 

1927 Elcar 6-70  Touring car in Reikjavik, Iceland.jpg

This car is in a museum 154 km from Reykjavík,(Byggðasafnið í Skógum)in 1969 when i was 16 years old i help my father to paint this car for a car show for the city of Reykjavík,i just use a brush to paint the car,and still today has the same paint,my brother got the car running in 1969,But the car has not be driven since.the Iceland National museum is the owner of the car.I have pictures of it that was taken in the old days.Thank you Guðmundur Bjarnason Iceland.

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New here. I have inherited a very rare 1927 ElCar model 8-82 Brougham 5-passenger sedan. 99% complete. Arizona car garage kept since 1975. Engine and Carb. was professionally rebuilt 1995. Starter rewound last year.Car was featured in William S. Locke's book and so much more history behind this car. Hoping to learn more from this group. 

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Congratulations! A great and very original car! Glad you have the mechanics done already... and the radiator and headlights, apparently.

 

I hope you get to it and do the bodywork and rest of the work. There are only a handful of Elcars out there... and it would be great to have one more among them.

 

If you don't have William S. Locke's book, make sure you get it. You will find tons of information there.

 

Victor

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On 1/20/2017 at 10:22 PM, alsancle said:

We should do a DuPoint thread.  There is no such thing as a bad looking Waterhouse.   If you don't have it, I suggest getting Stan Smith's book on DuPont.  Excellent.

I have a rare of the rare photo (it may have been published when I gave it to Stan Smith for researching for CCCA publication and I told him fine for his book) and Stan was able to ID car (and it still exists today) - I would be pleased to [post if you did a DuPont thread.

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This photo of a DuPont roadster (directly behind the Bugatti) was taken at an early meet in the Boston area. The older gentleman, standing in front of the car, is identified as Mr. DuPont.

 

5937fcea8afbb_BugtattiDuPont.thumb.jpg.2daf5415ff22f7cb455a89db169b4275.jpg

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On ‎12‎/‎7‎/‎2016 at 4:52 AM, K8096 said:

    What octane was the gasoline in 1930?  70?  Putting 89 octane gas in one would increase the hp today wouldn't it?  ....

 

I must disagree.   Well, to this extent.  You are correct in implying the octane of motor gasoline was MUCH lower in 1930 than it is today.   But you are incorrect in thinking using higher octane fuel in a  "bone-stock"  1930's era car would make ANY difference.

 

Let me explain what "OCTANE" means.  Reduced to its essentials, it is a way of discussing the FLAME SPEED of the fuel - how fast it burns.    The measurement of octane has NOTHING to do with the power of the fuel - higher octane fuel has NO more energy than lower octane fuel.   The big advantage of the higher octane fuel is that it permits higher compression.   That permits more of the SAME overall energy to be released as MECHANICAL energy, with less wasted as heat.

 

The higher the octane...the slower the fuel burn takes place in time...and thus more energy can be delivered to the top of the piston without the sudden & damaging "knock" of a too fast "burn off".

 

The earlier the fuel, the faster the flame-speed,   so that only lower compression motors could use it without damaging "knock". 

 

The higher the compression,  & the higher the octane fuel, the slower the flame speed, and thus the longer in time the "burn" can be converted into mechanical energy. 

 

Ever heard an engine "knock" ?   That's the sound of the lower octane fuel "going off" too fast. 

 

It is common amongst motor restorers of older vehicles to raise the compression ratio.  Why not ?  Easier on the motor;  helps it take advantage of the greater power of modern slower burning gasoline, with a smoother power flow on those old-style bearings.   So IF you are referring to 1930's cars that have had their compression ratios raised - yes...then..most certainly..use the higher octane fuel to get more power.

Edited by SaddleRider
i really ought to learn how to spieel (see edit history)
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  • 4 months later...

I became interested in the Elcar after reading the Hemmings article mentioned earlier in this thread. Of course, the real trick is finding one of these for sale. I am interested in finding one, even an unrestored project. I'm in New Jersey. These are such fascinating and (sadly) largely ignored pieces of automobile history. 

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I hope you find one, Cars of Chaos {good name for wheels from the Roaring Twenties}. 5 or 10 years ago, I saw a couple of rickity early Elcars come up for sale in farm auctions(ND, MN). I´ll tell you if I see another.

 

No matter what car show you went to with your Elcar, nobody would ever stick you in `` the Elcar row´´.  Not just Rare, Unique.

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  • 1 month later...

For eight grand, it’s worth buying just to say you owned a CCCA Classic Elcar. If the car were on the east coast I would probably consider it. Sadly, at that price, a street rod would certainly consider it as an option. Rare and unusual doesn’t mean expensive. 

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2 hours ago, edinmass said:

For eight grand, it’s worth buying just to say you owned a CCCA Classic Elcar. If the car were on the east coast I would probably consider it. Sadly, at that price, a street rod would certainly consider it as an option. Rare and unusual doesn’t mean expensive. 

 

Ed, I agree, the car needs a ton of work, but a running Classic for 8K is fun!  It's a shame the fellow who inherited it has no interest, but that's the way it goes.....

 

As far as making a hot rod out of it, if I were of that ilk I'd surely look for something with a little more styling to rod.....

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8 hours ago, edinmass said:

For eight grand, it’s worth buying just to say you owned a CCCA Classic Elcar. If the car were on the east coast I would probably consider it. Sadly, at that price, a street rod would certainly consider it as an option. Rare and unusual doesn’t mean expensive. 

 

I agree with you completely, Ed. 

 

What happened to that old chesnut: ``Nobody but millionaires can afford to buy CCCA Classics.´´?

 

 

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  • 4 months later...
On 10/19/2017 at 12:53 PM, cars of chaos said:

I became interested in the Elcar after reading the Hemmings article mentioned earlier in this thread. Of course, the real trick is finding one of these for sale. I am interested in finding one, even an unrestored project. I'm in New Jersey. These are such fascinating and (sadly) largely ignored pieces of automobile history. 

There will be an auction in Ohio this August with 2 Elcars. The Lloyd Young estate sale, held by Mike Clum Auctions(www.clumauctions.com). AUG 10th &11th 2018, near Columbus.

An outstanding set of cars, catalog not out til May[also Buick, MG Midget, REO, Cadillac, Ford, Pierce-Arrow, Peerless, Packard, Templar, Baker, Franklin, Marmon]. Looks like a Coupe and a Sedan, nice condition, 1924 and 1926, based on the preliminary photos.

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No, I had not seen the '22 K6 coupe for sale (I have to admit that I rarely get into the forums)... nice little car. God knows why he sent me to Mexico... otherwise I would have a much larger collection! I would certainly get that car for the price mentioned.... but not possible from down here as importing a car legally is tremendously expensive these days.

One more car for my Elcar picture collection. Thanks for pointing it out.

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The pictures of the '22 Elcar are deceptive, I think. My guess is that the coupe is pretty big, height-wise. I know someone went to a lot of trouble to pose with "The Tramp" Charlie Chaplin impersonator, but it takes away from the kind of car it is, along with the faded paint.  From a long ways away it looks like just another Model "T" or Dodge but it was a higher grade car...I think you'll agree. We are(maybe wrong word since I've never owned one) getting enough discussion about Elcar, maybe there ought to be an Elcar Forum now.

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Jeff: I think an Elcar forum would not get much movement. It is only a handful of interested guys with a bit more than a handful of surviving cars... and yes!, the car seems rather tall and large.

 

I am posting a pic of the coupe for sale, since these thread has been also working as an "Elcar inventory". ?

 

 

 

1922 K6 serial 3563

1922 Elcar K6 Coupe, 2.JPG

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  • 4 weeks later...

 For future reference and researchers of Elcars The 1928 Elcar 8-78, A7K88, Sedan, on ebay 2016 sold for $7600 and was shipped overseas (not sure where) for restoration. I purchased and now own A5R89 a 1927 8-82 5 pass sedan. I am always interested in parts or even another Elcar for restoration if anyone has any in the future. Wouldn't mind connecting with other Elcar owners also. Jonathan

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On 4/26/2018 at 5:03 PM, v.milke said:

No, I had not seen the '22 K6 coupe for sale (I have to admit that I rarely get into the forums)... nice little car. God knows why he sent me to Mexico... otherwise I would have a much larger collection! I would certainly get that car for the price mentioned.... but not possible from down here as importing a car legally is tremendously expensive these days.

One more car for my Elcar picture collection. Thanks for pointing it out.

What if someone had a 30m yacht in Los Angeles and took this car with him to a car show in Cabo San Lucas or Agua Caliénte. He drives it around a little after the car show and a hotel owner buys it to display in his lobby as a static display, not to drive. Then you happen along awhile later and buy it from him, maybe paying a 10% sales tax. Would any laws be broken, or would there be a 200% import tax on this used car, like my teacher said was assessed on him bringing a new refrigerator and washing machine to a Mexican friend in 1975?

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On 5/21/2018 at 1:05 PM, Jonathan Winans said:

 For future reference and researchers of Elcars The 1928 Elcar 8-78, A7K88, Sedan, on ebay 2016 sold for $7600 and was shipped overseas (not sure where) for restoration. I purchased and now own A5R89 a 1927 8-82 5 pass sedan. I am always interested in parts or even another Elcar for restoration if anyone has any in the future. Wouldn't mind connecting with other Elcar owners also. Jonathan

 

Jonathan, congratulations on your purchase. A5R89 looks like a very complete car.

 

I have a 1926 project which I am not sure if I will ever get to do, but in the process of learning about it I saw several Elcars and looked for information everywhere. I collect pics of whatever Elcar I come across. If you need any pics on details for your car, please feel free to contact me directly: vmilke at nutryplus dot com.

 

Thanks,

Victor

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On 5/23/2018 at 1:15 AM, jeff_a said:

What if someone had a 30m yacht in Los Angeles and took this car with him to a car show in Cabo San Lucas or Agua Caliénte. He drives it around a little after the car show and a hotel owner buys it to display in his lobby as a static display, not to drive. Then you happen along awhile later and buy it from him, maybe paying a 10% sales tax. Would any laws be broken, or would there be a 200% import tax on this used car, like my teacher said was assessed on him bringing a new refrigerator and washing machine to a Mexican friend in 1975?

 

Jeff, I really wouldn't know. Many things do not work well around here... and of course there might be a way around a few of them if you care to find it, but I am respectful of the law and would not like to get into anything other than the standard procedure.

I have a car that I bought down here that may not be fully 'correct' and I get a kind of a headache every time I remember about it, knowing that if sometime for any reason my car could get checked (not likely to happen, perhaps only in case of a big accident or something similar) I may loose it for not being legal.

Better stay on the correct side of the line.

v

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I'm not suggesting that anyone should dodge taxes or import laws. I read, recently, about some super-rich guy who had a motor yacht so big he and his wife carried a Fiat 500 or something aboard so they could drive around at different ports they visited. I was just posing a theoretical case & wondering how our countrys' myriad laws would apply. It's possible a police chief or port inspector would say the above situation would not be allowed -- but with a proper explanation beforehand, maybe they would understand that smuggling on the high seas was not the intent. To me, it would be the same as the owner of the 100-foot yacht going to a marina in Mexico and selling an $8,000 painting to a hotel owner if the hotelier insisted on buying it, then you buying it a year later when you saw it in the lobby. Maybe the hotel man would have to pay an import duty. I'm not an attorney or a customs officer so admit to being ignorant on the subject...but informing the officials beforehand may work better than trying it to find out if it was legal.

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I am also an ignorant on the subject, Jeff. It is a good idea... but who knows if it can be done or not and what would happen...

 

Back to Elcars, I am posting a pic of what is a very rare and valuable option... a Pegasus hood ornament that I once saw on ebay (it was Elcar's emblem as can be seen in the radiator badge),

 

 

Radiator Cap Emblem, Elcar Winged Horse, 2.jpg

 

Radiator, Elcar emblem, 1, 2.25 tall and 2 inches wide.jpg

Edited by v.milke (see edit history)
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  • 8 months later...

I noticed today there is a 1931 Model 120 Elcar Sedan listed on Hemmings online. The Elcar book says a $2,645 car new. 115 hp Lycoming staight-eight engine. Location: New Hampshire. Condition: "Fair" They are asking $25,000, negotiable.

 

 

Screenshot 2020-10-03 at 11.06.31 PM.png

Edited by jeff_a (see edit history)
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