New member Phoenix area, AZ with a 1957 Buick Super 4-door

[Andreas]

Hi everyone, I just picked up my Buick yesterday. It has just a little surface rust, it's an Arizona car. It's fairly complete and in decent condition as far as chrome and body goes. Previous owner did a few things to it that I don't care too much about but it's really just small stuff that I should be able to fix quickly. My goal at this point is to make the car a safe daily driver. Later I want to restore it to the point where the interior is new, engine and engine bay cleaned up and a new paint job.

 

She fires right up but runs extremely rich and idles high. I'll put some fresh premium fuel in today and add some fuel stabilizer. I believe the carburetor has an electric start valve to adjust the mixture. I was thinking that it might be stuck, like gummed up by old fuel. Would this be a good starting point for troubleshooting this issue? I have very little experience with carburetors as I usually paly with EFI on my Harleys so my question may sound pretty stupid to you.

 

On a separate note, I assume that the heads on my motor do not have hardened valve seats. What do you guys add to your fuel to keep the seats from wearing out? Thanks in advance for your replies....

 

It would be great if there were any Buick owners in the area that I could connect with.

[SpecialEducation]

12 minutes ago, Andreas said:

On a separate note, I assume that the heads on my motor do not have hardened valve seats. What do you guys add to your fuel to keep the seats from wearing out? Thanks in advance for your replies....

 

It would be great if there were any Buick owners in the area that I could connect with.

 

Great to have you here, let's see some pix!

 

Pix of that carb might be helpful for troubleshooting, but that probably deserves it's own thread in the post-war section.  I don't think any factory carb had wires going to it in '57, so if it's electric anything, it's a mod.

 

Worry not about hardened valve seats.  Buick engines used superior material for casting, hardened seats are not required.

 

Our chapter prez winters in Sun City.  He's not down that way yet, but will be right after Thanksgiving.  I'll see if I can get you two connected.

 

EDIT:  I take it back.  I saw "New Member" and thought we were in the introductions thread.  This is probably the right spot to discuss your carburetor woes.  Take that air cleaner off and let's see what we are working with...

Edited November 8, 2016 by SpecialEducation
Oops... (see edit history)

[NC-car-guy]

Welcome!   

[Andreas]

Thanks, I was looking for a introduction area but must have overlooked it.

 

[Andreas]

[Andreas]

44 minutes ago, SpecialEducation said:

 

Great to have you here, let's see some pix!

 

Pix of that carb might be helpful for troubleshooting, but that probably deserves it's own thread in the post-war section.  I don't think any factory carb had wires going to it in '57, so if it's electric anything, it's a mod.

 

Worry not about hardened valve seats.  Buick engines used superior material for casting, hardened seats are not required.

 

Our chapter prez winters in Sun City.  He's not down that way yet, but will be right after Thanksgiving.  I'll see if I can get you two connected.

 

EDIT:  I take it back.  I saw "New Member" and thought we were in the introductions thread.  This is probably the right spot to discuss your carburetor woes.  Take that air cleaner off and let's see what we are working with...

That's great news on the valve seats! The motor sounds very smooth. No blue smoke coming from the tail pipes, just black from running so rich.

[JohnD1956]

Welcome Andreas, to the Forum and the world of Buicks.  Chances are you will find that to be a very reliable vehicle.  Is it a Super, or a Century?  That is a nicely optioned Buick, with the factory A/C and power windows.  Probably have a power seat too, right?  57's are almost as nice as the 56's (lol).  The first word of warning I'll offer is: do not think the trans is bad cause you do not feel it shifting off the line.  It's designed that way.

 

One thing you'll want to do is check in with questions before buying a lot of parts.  While Buicks are very reliable,  what is not so common are interchangeable parts.  For example, you should have a 364 Cu In engine.  It looks exactly like the 53-56 cars 322 Cu In engine.  Not much interchanges however.  Also you;ll want to pay close attention to any body parts.  Before 57 there was no body part interchange between the Century/ Special, and the Super/Roadmaster. I do not know for a fact that this is a problem in 57.  Does not look like you need anything however.

 

Looking forward to hearing and seeing more about your Buick in the future.

[SpecialEducation]

You've already mentioned premium fuel, but it's worth noting that this car has a higher compression ratio than average (10.0:1), so it's certainly worthwhile to feed it the good stuff.  Steer away form ethanol when you can, because it will destroy the soft parts of the fuel system.  That's not the place for new-old-stock parts, either.  If you have to service the hoses or the pump, be sure to upgrade to modern materials that will resist the alcohol.

 

I'll also throw this in:  Look for motor oil marketed for diesel engines; CI-4 or CJ-4.  That will help prevent those flat tappets from grinding down your cam lobes.  Some guys will add the zinc back in with a ZDDP additive, but too much zinc can be bad, too.  Many have good results with Brad Penn (not API rated), but CI-4 diesel oil is easy to find, is relatively cheap (I've been buying it cheaper than "gas engine" oil lately), and gives a good amount of protection.

[Andreas]

Thank you, John.

4 minutes ago, JohnD1956 said:

Welcome Andreas, to the Forum and the world of Buicks.  Chances are you will find that to be a very reliable vehicle.  Is it a Super, or a Century?  That is a nicely optioned Buick, with the factory A/C and power windows.  Probably have a power seat too, right?  57's are almost as nice as the 56's (lol).  The first word of warning I'll offer is: do not think the trans is bad cause you do not feel it shifting off the line.  It's designed that way.

 

One thing you'll want to do is check in with questions before buying a lot of parts.  While Buicks are very reliable,  what is not so common are interchangeable parts.  For example, you should have a 364 Cu In engine.  It looks exactly like the 53-56 cars 322 Cu In engine.  Not much interchanges however.  Also you;ll want to pay close attention to any body parts.  Before 57 there was no body part interchange between the Century/ Special, and the Super/Roadmaster. I do not know for a fact that this is a problem in 57.  Does not look like you need anything however.

 

Looking forward to hearing and seeing more about your Buick in the future.

 

Thank you, John! I will take my time on this project. I have to familiarize myself with the car because I have never worked on an American classic car. So far it's always been Mercedes and of course lots of Harley stuff.

 

The transmission shifts fine but it is leaking. PO told me it's just the oil pan gasket. I haven't looked yet and I don't know if the seals tend to go bad or not but after 59 years it wouldn't surprise me too much. :-) The mileage on the car appears to be an original 89,000. The general condition of the car would support that.

 

The parts I will be needing are for the ac. The interior parts of it are still there (I believe) and a couple of hoses dangling in the engine bay but no compressor, condenser, dryer and whatever else may be on the original setup. I found a picture on here of a '58 with the ac setup, which gives me some clues. Not sure if any of the parts could be generic GM parts or not? Living in the Phoenix area to me means I absolutely, positively have to have ac that blows cold!!! I would like to restore the car close to original but I also want it to be a daily driver. How well does the original ac work?

 

Thanks again for the warm welcome everybody!

[SpecialEducation]

1 minute ago, Andreas said:

The transmission shifts fine but it is leaking. PO told me it's just the oil pan gasket. I haven't looked yet and I don't know if the seals tend to go bad or not but after 59 years it wouldn't surprise me too much. :-) The mileage on the car appears to be an original 89,000. The general condition of the car would support that.

 

The parts I will be needing are for the ac. The interior parts of it are still there (I believe) and a couple of hoses dangling in the engine bay but no compressor, condenser, dryer and whatever else may be on the original setup. I found a picture on here of a '58 with the ac setup, which gives me some clues. Not sure if any of the parts could be generic GM parts or not? Living in the Phoenix area to me means I absolutely, positively have to have ac that blows cold!!! I would like to restore the car close to original but I also want it to be a daily driver. How well does the original ac work?

 

HA!  Ok... Dynaflows are notorious for leaking, especially at the torque ball at the tailshaft.  That's not the easiest thing in the world to fix, but it's not the end of the world.  Parts are readily available.  Leaks at the accumulators are also not uncommon, and can be serviced without too much heartburn (watch out for the springs inside!).  If it's leaking from the front seal, you have to drop the transmission.  Fatsco has all the seals you will need.

 

The transmission doesn't actually shift on its own, but it does have a variable stator, which kinda feels like shifting action when you put your foot in it.  Pull in down into low at a stop light and tromp on it and the difference will be obvious!

 

Personally, I wouldn't put a vintage condenser or receiver/dryer on the car, and I'd have new hoses fabed.  I'd also use an A6 compressor rather than an A5.  The A6 should bolt right up to the original bracket, they are MUCH cheaper, and move more refrigerant (even though they are slightly lower pressure).

[Andreas]

16 minutes ago, SpecialEducation said:

Personally, I wouldn't put a vintage condenser or receiver/dryer on the car, and I'd have new hoses fabed.  I'd also use an A6 compressor rather than an A5.  The A6 should bolt right up to the original bracket, they are MUCH cheaper, and move more refrigerant (even though they are slightly lower pressure).

 

I hope it won't be too difficult to find an original bracket - there's no bracket left. If anyone could post a picture so I know at least what it looks like I would appreciate it!

[JohnD1956]

I am not a refrigeration mechanic but have had several experiences with rebuilt A6 compressors.  A6 compressors are still available new, and if one has to have a reliable A/C system, then that is the way to go.  A6's were used on GM's from early 60's through at least early 80's.  I think they are reliable units.  New condensors can be purchased too, as well as receiver/dryers.  The thing to consider is how long those hoses under the hood have been dangling.  It would be a good idea to flush the evaporator and if it is readily present, I'd remove it from the car for that purpose.  It would help draining the chemical flush out if you can turn it upside down. Also you can check the integrity of the unit.  At the same time I'd try to find someone who can help check the valve in the system.  I do not know which valve you'll have because there have been several designs over the years.  So you'll need someone who can work on what you have, or make a good recommendation for a replacement.   Don't know if you can get any R-12 Freon where you are, but it will make your system work better.  

 

 

[Bob Engle]

Just a thought on old cars.  I bought a 1957 continental which sat for 28 years and had 55,000 miles on it.  I did the entire brake system, the whole fuel system.  The engine ran rugged and wanted to ping under load.  After checking the ignition system for proper operation, I thought for a while and recognized that many of the miles were in the 50's and the possibility of carbon build up in the engine high.  I set the idle at 2,000 rpms and drizzled a bottle of injector cleaner though the intake.  Problem solved.  Engine runs smooth.  It does need premium gas for the 11:1 compression ratio.

 

Bob Engle

[Kosage Chavis]

Just wanted to also welcome you Andreas.  Love your car.  I hope you will post plenty of pictures of the process.

[lancemb]

9 hours ago, SpecialEducation said:

 

I don't think any factory carb had wires going to it in '57, so if it's electric anything, it's a mod

I think he may be talking about the ignition switch on the carburetor that activates when the gas pedal is pushed, which has 2 wires...

[lancemb]

6 hours ago, Andreas said:

 I would like to restore the car close to original but I also want it to be a daily driver. How well does the original ac work?

Welcome, and I applaud your desire to keep the car original.  I have one with a functioning original AC system in case you need any pictures.  It works pretty well, but if you'll be driving it a lot you may want to upgrade for servicibility.  Also, Pete Phillips recently sent a car just like yours to the scrap yard in TX that had AC so you may want to contact him and see where it went, and get any parts off of it ASAP!

[SpecialEducation]

58 minutes ago, lancemb said:

I think he may be talking about the ignition switch on the carburetor that activates when the gas pedal is pushed, which has 2 wires...

 

D'oh!  Over 20 years and we've never had that working. I always forget about that...

[Andreas]

19 hours ago, lancemb said:

I think he may be talking about the ignition switch on the carburetor that activates when the gas pedal is pushed, which has 2 wires...

 

Yes, that's what I meant, thank you. Mine doesn't have wires attached to it and the linkage is very loose. Not sure anything is attached to it internally. Is this some kind of solenoid?

[SpecialEducation]

OK, so originally these cars were started with the gas pedal.  You simply turned the key on and mashed the pedal to the floor.  This would be a switch for that system, but if the wires aren't connected to anything, I'd guess that your car has been converted to a push button start?

 

That does look to be a factory correct 4bbl for a Super, with an aftermarket air cleaner.  That's a good start.

[Andreas]

Thanks. Yes I have a push button starter on the steering column.

[Andreas]

19 hours ago, lancemb said:

Welcome, and I applaud your desire to keep the car original.  I have one with a functioning original AC system in case you need any pictures.  It works pretty well, but if you'll be driving it a lot you may want to upgrade for servicibility.  Also, Pete Phillips recently sent a car just like yours to the scrap yard in TX that had AC so you may want to contact him and see where it went, and get any parts off of it ASAP!

 

Thank you, pictures would be very helpful. I'll PM you my email address.

[JohnD1956]

3 hours ago, Andreas said:

Thanks. Yes I have a push button starter on the steering column.

Don't know if you have sourced a Chassis manual yet, so if you have not, here is a section from one online source.  http://www.hometownbuick.com/1957-buick-cranking-system/

 

As a matter of fact, you may find this site very interesting.  Especially two books, the 57 Buick Product school manual, and the 57 Buick technical bulletins manual.  The product school tells you what was new for 57.  The technical bulletins manual is compilation of all the known recall/ issues for your year car.  Very interesting stuff!  I have not searched the chassis service manual but there is most likely a section on the A/C in there too.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, SpecialEducation said:

OK, so originally these cars were started with the gas pedal.  You simply turned the key on and mashed the pedal to the floor.  This would be a switch for that system, but if the wires aren't connected to anything, I'd guess that your car has been converted to a push button start?

 

Actually you shouldn't "mash" the accelerator to the floor, especially if you are operating the car in -20 to -50 below.  Just press the pedal until the starter engages. If it didn't start right away it was better to turn the switch off and on  rather than move the pedal up and down.  About twice up and down and you were flooded.  Down below -40 you almost always had to pull the plugs and dry them to get the engine started.

Really it was a fantastic system.  I don't understand why people spend time to modify something rather than repair it back to original.

[SpecialEducation]

5 hours ago, Tinindian said:

Actually you shouldn't "mash" the accelerator to the floor, especially if you are operating the car in -20 to -50 below.  Just press the pedal until the starter engages. If it didn't start right away it was better to turn the switch off and on  rather than move the pedal up and down.  About twice up and down and you were flooded.  Down below -40 you almost always had to pull the plugs and dry them to get the engine started.

Really it was a fantastic system.  I don't understand why people spend time to modify something rather than repair it back to original.

 

 

OK, whatever - like I said, we've had the car over 20 years and ours came pre-modified.  The point is that his starting system has been modified, and the connections on the carburetor have nothing to do with his rich condition.

 

Now, in our case, the relay on the wheel well is completely destroyed.  I think the easiest explanation is the relay failed in the '70s or '80s, and the car was being driven by a kid who couldn't find an exact replacement and couldn't figure out what to do.  Rather than spend a few hours doing research (no internet back then), it was easier to install piece of wire and a $1 switch.

 

Back to the subject at hand, I'm not an expert on this particular model of carb, so I don't have an easy answer. I'd probably reach out to Carb King and see if he can lend some advice.

 

 

[JohnD1956]

The starter switch disconnect is a minor issue.  Stick with the button till you can deal with that flooding issue.  That may prove to be a bit more difficult.

 

In the picture of the engine compartment I noticed your automatic choke is not hooked up.  There should be a tube going from that opening on the choke housing to the back side of the passengers side exhaust manifold.  That is your heat stove, which is the driver for your automatic choke to work.  Since the tube is not there someone just released all the tension on the thermostatic choke spring so your choke is not in play at all.  This should lead to lean starts, not flooding.  Flooding has to be internal to the carb.  May be a float that is stuck, or perforated, preventing the needle valve from closing.  Unfortunately that means opening the carb to check.

 

As a side note, I also see what looks to be the vacuum hose from the vacuum wiper motor laying there unhooked.  Prior to 57 Buick had used fuel pumps with a secondary vacuum pump attached to help with the wipers.  For 57/58 this extra vacuum pump was part of the oil pump, inside the oil pan.  There have been some on this board who experienced problems with those internal vacuum pumps, which may be why your wiper motor is disconnected.  I am assuming that the hose from your vacuum pump was disconnected and plugged.  If not, you'll have a massive vacuum leak there, which could cause erratic idle and poor performance. 

 

Regardless of that leak there, there will still be a small vacuum leak at that open choke stove on the carb.  That is so small it may not impact driveability.  But it will be a leak just the same which leads to erratic idle.

 

So I recommend researching the manual to find the vacuum port from that internal vacuum pump and making sure it is plugged, and also consider fixing the choke stove issue.  If you need wipers, you can go with a modification to electric.  But I'd be tempted to test that internal vacuum pump first.  My 56's vacuum  wipers work just fine and you're not likely to get much rain anyway.

[Andreas]

4 hours ago, JohnD1956 said:

The starter switch disconnect is a minor issue.  Stick with the button till you can deal with that flooding issue.  That may prove to be a bit more difficult.

 

In the picture of the engine compartment I noticed your automatic choke is not hooked up.  There should be a tube going from that opening on the choke housing to the back side of the passengers side exhaust manifold.  That is your heat stove, which is the driver for your automatic choke to work.  Since the tube is not there someone just released all the tension on the thermostatic choke spring so your choke is not in play at all.  This should lead to lean starts, not flooding.  Flooding has to be internal to the carb.  May be a float that is stuck, or perforated, preventing the needle valve from closing.  Unfortunately that means opening the carb to check.

 

As a side note, I also see what looks to be the vacuum hose from the vacuum wiper motor laying there unhooked.  Prior to 57 Buick had used fuel pumps with a secondary vacuum pump attached to help with the wipers.  For 57/58 this extra vacuum pump was part of the oil pump, inside the oil pan.  There have been some on this board who experienced problems with those internal vacuum pumps, which may be why your wiper motor is disconnected.  I am assuming that the hose from your vacuum pump was disconnected and plugged.  If not, you'll have a massive vacuum leak there, which could cause erratic idle and poor performance. 

 

Regardless of that leak there, there will still be a small vacuum leak at that open choke stove on the carb.  That is so small it may not impact driveability.  But it will be a leak just the same which leads to erratic idle.

 

So I recommend researching the manual to find the vacuum port from that internal vacuum pump and making sure it is plugged, and also consider fixing the choke stove issue.  If you need wipers, you can go with a modification to electric.  But I'd be tempted to test that internal vacuum pump first.  My 56's vacuum  wipers work just fine and you're not likely to get much rain anyway.

 

Thank you, John! I appreciate all the information you've given me. I have a manual on order but will add school manual as you suggested. It's a lot for me to digest but I'll get there....

[Pilgrim65]

Welcome Andreas

reakon you've got a good car with lots of potential , and look forward to seeing photos of your progress , good luck.

cheers

pilgrim

[Andreas]

Ok, my manual hasn't arrived yet. I give up...... What is this?  Right in front of the driver door....

 

 

[Ttotired]

I had the same question when I got my 58

 

Believe it or not, that's the wiper and washer switch. the push button is the washers and you slide the lever for wiper speed.

 

Its all vacuum controlled, so the engine has to be running and all the vacuum lines hooked up before it will work (if it works)

 

 

[dei]

3 hours ago, Andreas said:

Ok, my manual hasn't arrived yet. I give up...... What is this?  Right in front of the driver door....

 

What you have there is the windshield speed wiper control and washer button.

You slide the pointed bar forward to start, increase the wipers.

Note: these are operated by vacuum and if the hoses are in poor condition (usually at the push on points - sometimes split) they will need to be replaced in order to seal.

The button is for the washer fluid. Again operated by vacuum.

Hence all the hoses on the top of you glass washer bottle. Check all your vacuum hoses for fit and condition.

Not to put the system down but even with all new hoses you might still have to check your actual vacuum motor (mounted on the firewall) in order to have the system working properly. If it is weak, spray a bit of water on the windshield which sometimes help allow the wipers to move.

 

Because I use the car mostly on fair weather days, I use Rain-x on the windshield with good results when I have been caught out. 57 & 58 Buicks used the exact same system and hardware.

 

[Andreas]

6 minutes ago, Ttotired said:

3 minutes ago, dei said:

 

What you have there is the windshield speed wiper control and washer button.

You slide the pointed bar forward to start, increase the wipers.

Note: these are operated by vacuum and if the hoses are in poor condition (usually at the push on points - sometimes split) they will need to be replaced in order to seal.

The button is for the washer fluid. Again operated by vacuum.

Hence all the hoses on the top of you glass washer bottle. Check all your vacuum hoses for fit and condition.

Not to put the system down but even with all new hoses you might still have to check your actual vacuum motor (mounted on the firewall) in order to have the system working properly. If it is weak, spray a bit of water on the windshield which sometimes help allow the wipers to move.

 

Because I use the car mostly on fair weather days, I use Rain-x on the windshield with good results when I have been caught out. 57 & 58 Buicks used the exact same system and hardware.

 

I had the same question when I got my 58

 

Believe it or not, that's the wiper and washer switch. the push button is the washers and you slide the lever for wiper speed.

 

Its all vacuum controlled, so the engine has to be running and all the vacuum lines hooked up before it will work (if it works)

 

 

 

Thanks for that! Probably the last thing I would have thought of.

 

Sounds like trouble.... :-)

[SpecialEducation]

There are conversion kits available to replace the vacuum motor with electric, but Rain-X is much cheaper. 

[buick man]

… Welcome to our crazy world of Buicks you will find that we're a diverse group but passionately united in preserving and driving these works of art.  

With that said, I see from the photos someone has thankfully already removed the fuzzy dice if it had them, so next up is to craiglist those mags and turn the cash over for the various no doubt immedidate tasks at hand...   

[SpecialEducation]

I like the mags...

[Andreas]

12 hours ago, buick man said:

… Welcome to our crazy world of Buicks you will find that we're a diverse group but passionately united in preserving and driving these works of art.  

With that said, I see from the photos someone has thankfully already removed the fuzzy dice if it had them, so next up is to craiglist those mags and turn the cash over for the various no doubt immedidate tasks at hand...   

 

12 hours ago, SpecialEducation said:

I like the mags...

 

Thanks! I'm kind of on the fence about the mags.... I have the original wheels and hub caps too so I can go either way. I'll buy new tires so that's when I need to decide which wheels to use. The tires on the mags have been driven a couple of hundred miles only but PO had the car sitting outside for years. The sun has damaged them to the point where I wouldn't trust driving around at highway speed....

 

The front brakes have been upgraded to disks, which is a good thing in my view. I hope the original wheels will still fit.

[SpecialEducation]

10 minutes ago, Andreas said:

The front brakes have been upgraded to disks, which is a good thing in my view. I hope the original wheels will still fit.

 

Those are probably Astro calipers.  Worst case, you might need to knock the corners off them, but that's probably already been done.

 

https://scarebird.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=58

[Andreas]

2 minutes ago, SpecialEducation said:

 

Those are probably Astro calipers.  Worst case, you might need to knock the corners off them, but that's probably already been done.

 

https://scarebird.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=58

 

That's great information, thank you!

[Andreas]

On ‎11‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 2:30 PM, Pilgrim65 said:

Welcome Andreas

reakon you've got a good car with lots of potential , and look forward to seeing photos of your progress , good luck.

cheers

pilgrim

 

Thank you, missed your post earlier.

 

[buick man]

… yeah your right now that I take a closer look at the mags, put em back on the 55 Chevy or use em and pimp on …..

[lancemb]

On Wednesday, November 09, 2016 at 2:37 PM, Andreas said:

 

Thank you, pictures would be very helpful. I'll PM you my email address.

Posting pics here in case anyone else cares to see.  This AC system is totally original.  The brake master/booster is off for replacement.  Let me know if you want any more detailed pics.